Why Bother Crafting Legendary VR10 Equipment?

Maverick827

With the upcoming Patch 1.1: Craglorn, the Veteran Ranks 11 and 12 will be added to the game.

While I love the thought of new, end-game content (even though I’m not quite there myself), I’m a bit apprehensive about essentially raising the level cap so soon and so casually. I worry because, while every MMO is essentially one giant carrot on a stick, at least most let you eat the carrot before they dangle another one in front of you. Increasing the max level so frequently feels like it will defeat the purpose of trying for legendary gear.

Why bother going out of your way to craft a full set of legendary VR10 gear when VR12 is right around the corner? Why bother crafting legendary VR12 gear when VR15 could be there before you’re even halfway done? Even if VR12 gear is only marginally better than VR10 gear, that’s still enough to question the endeavor in the first place.

Could we perhaps get a bit more clarification about these VR increases? How frequent are they planned to be? If it’s every major patch (4 - 6 week release schedule), then I fear that will greatly diminish the incentive to craft legendary equipment. Even every other major patch would probably be too frequent.

BrassRazoo

Funny you mention that as one of the reasons I left my last MMO was because of too frequent level cap increases and it's association with gear.
We went out of our way to try and get the best gear and stats each cap and it took A LOT of time and effort.
No sooner had we got the best gear so we could attempt the hardest instances, the level cap increased again. This basically made us feel like all our time and effort was for nothing and we had to gear up all over again.
I like a challenge and new gear, but not being able to enjoy it for a time, are or even complete new gear sets before they were made redundant became a massive issue for many.

Bhakura

If craglorn is really going to be as challenging as they say its going to be, it wouldnt hurt to run around in legendarys, even if it isnt max level gear yet.
Its not like the mats are extremely hard to get once you have a rank 3 hireling.

Crescent

Bhakura wrote: »

If craglorn is really going to be as challenging as they say its going to be, it wouldnt hurt to run around in legendarys, even if it isnt max level gear yet.
Its not like the mats are extremely hard to get once you have a rank 3 hireling.

I've had rank 3 hireling for a while and at best I have 6 tempering alloys and 4 dregh wax.

It's all RNG.

Because through all of my playthrough the purple/yellow upgrade mats have been so scarce, I've basically not used a single one of them until it is the item I will be sitting on for a month or more.

SirAndy

Why not? I made a legendary level 16 axe the moment i had enough tempers to do so.

If you're holding on to your stuff for "endgame" you'll never get to craft anything.
ZOS has stated several times that they'll be adding more content on a more or less monthly basis. Which means VR 10 is replaced by VR12 which is replaced by VR 14 which is replaced by ....

At some point, you gotta just go for it and use them yellow tempers!

Keiffo

Craglorn is open to VR1 players.

People just don't seem to understand that in this game, reaching level cap is not required and is only a bonus for completing all content or grinding a lot.

The bonuses for levelling up are very slight, and have little impact on what you do in the game.

The set bonuses can be applied to any level of gear so you don't need to be VR12 to get special gear.

Gisgo

Endgame is cool.
Constant cap increase is NOT cool and each time you increase the cap what used to be endgame becomes "just another dung on the road to the cap".
Which is not cool.

Horizontal progression, devs... check it.

sgtalexinsidpreeb18_ESO

if u need v10 legendarys to get trough v12 i dont see the broblem... but i doubt it will be hard enough for that... q.q

Azuriel02

Legendary upgrade is not mandatory, it's just a lttle bonus if you have an epic gear. And epic upgrade ingredient aren't that hard to get.

The thing I am concerned about increasing the lvl cap is that it became harder harder to level alts.

Come on, after you hit v10 with your main character, how can you possibly tell yourself "Oh, I have a good feeling about leveling again a character !". I just can't figure it for myself. Even if I truly enjoyed the game the first time, I'm not ready to do about seven days (/played).

Kaladin4

Azuriel02 wrote: »

Legendary upgrade is not mandatory, it's just a lttle bonus if you have an epic gear. And epic upgrade ingredient aren't that hard to get.

The thing I am concerned about increasing the lvl cap is that it became harder harder to level alts.

Come on, after you hit v10 with your main character, how can you possibly tell yourself "Oh, I have a good feeling about leveling again a character !". I just can't figure it for myself. Even if I truly enjoyed the game the first time, I'm not ready to do about seven days (/played).

that to me is the worst part. the vet leveling imo sucks. its slow its grindy. I like to play different characters a lot, I love having alts. I may want a tank to play for a bit then after a while I like to change it up an maybe go sorc and do range attack. an then at times I like to jump on the healer an just keep people alive. but even thinking about leveling alts through vet grind content makes me not want to play. there has to be a better way. I thin once one character his max vet lvl once your others hit 50 they can auto up to it also. like skipping the the first prison part of the game. you made it so they can skip it an get lvl 3 because people don't want to constantly do it.. what do you think they will feel about doing vet content on all characters? its not just 10-15 minute sink to get through those!

Winnower

You could try making your game priority about something other than leveling. Who cares how long it takes you to get to ....50? VR10? VR12? If you are VR10 and have decent gear, then just play - eventually you'll end up VR12 anyway.

As for gear, the gear in this game degrades too fast as it is - and is awfully expensive to repair. Trying to maintain a cutting edge set of gear sounds like a recipe for heartburn.

And the bonuses for gold gear at high levels vs. green or blue really drop down in ratio compared to early on; often to the point where it hardly seems worth it.

One day you'll have all the levels and all the gear and all the titles and all the lorebooks, skyshards, 20 maxxed horses, and the streets will scream your name whenever you step outside. What are you going to do then?

I'm more than half a century old, and I can tell you:

"The process is more fun than the goal."

It's as true in-game as it is in life.

People always try to tell you this using the "journey is better" metaphor, but that's not really accurate. Best of luck to you.

Ulvich

I'm just hope that the new "quest greens" don't exceed the epics we are crafting. That would be a complete waste of mats and time in my opinion.

Kaladin4

Winnower wrote: »

You could try making your game priority about something other than leveling. Who cares how long it takes you to get to ....50? VR10? VR12? If you are VR10 and have decent gear, then just play - eventually you'll end up VR12 anyway.

As for gear, the gear in this game degrades too fast as it is - and is awfully expensive to repair. Trying to maintain a cutting edge set of gear sounds like a recipe for heartburn.

And the bonuses for gold gear at high levels vs. green or blue really drop down in ratio compared to early on; often to the point where it hardly seems worth it.

One day you'll have all the levels and all the gear and all the titles and all the lorebooks, skyshards, 20 maxxed horses, and the streets will scream your name whenever you step outside. What are you going to do then?

I'm more than half a century old, and I can tell you:

"The process is more fun than the goal."

It's as true in-game as it is in life.

People always try to tell you this using the "journey is better" metaphor, but that's not really accurate. Best of luck to you.

I think for most pvpers their game priority isn't leveling its about pvping. People don't want to be at a disadvantage, and don't really like leveling all the time. they want to be able to make it to the top level/rank and be able to enjoy it for a while. Not to mention having alts to play with at end game also.

Thevenin

Keiffo wrote: »

Craglorn is open to VR1 players.

People just don't seem to understand that in this game, reaching level cap is not required and is only a bonus for completing all content or grinding a lot.

The bonuses for levelling up are very slight, and have little impact on what you do in the game.

The set bonuses can be applied to any level of gear so you don't need to be VR12 to get special gear.

Yeah, wanna meet my VR10 in PvP with your VR1 ? It's going to be a very short fight.
A small increase on all gear parts each VR + a small increase of soft caps each VR + a small increase on your food and potions + gear stacking at VR10 + set bonuses getting much more powerful add up to a huge bonus.
If they don't increase the bolster system, Cyrodiil will soon enough be unplayable for VR < 5

Azuriel02

Thevenin wrote: »

Yeah, wanna meet my VR10 in PvP with your VR1 ? It's going to be a very short fight.
A small increase on all gear parts each VR + a small increase of soft caps each VR + a small increase on your food and potions + gear stacking at VR10 + set bonuses getting much more powerful add up to a huge bonus.
If they don't increase the bolster system, Cyrodiil will soon enough be unplayable for VR < 5

I believe that in Cyrodiil, the softcap applied is the V1 cap for people above this rank.

Winnower wrote: »

One day you'll have all the levels and all the gear and all the titles and all the lorebooks, skyshards, 20 maxxed horses, and the streets will scream your name whenever you step outside. What are you going to do then?

Guess I will afk in town and show my mighty character to every people down the street and made them kneel in front of me.

Emperor

Just buy legendary stuff from other players then? I don't see what the problem is here. At VR 10 I'm sure you would have more money than you know what to do with anyway. I'm only level 31 and I have more money than I know what to do with just by simply selling all my loot to venders.

What are you hoarding your money for if there is nothing else to spend it on? Just to have a big gold count? Increasing just 1 VR rank takes wayyyyy longer than any other normal level. You have to complete an entire zone just for 1 level so it would definitely be worth it to spend the cash or use the legendary crafting stuff IMO.

reggielee

I would think the new cap would have their own new legendary mats needed to upgrade gear, so you would have to grind those new mats regardless. may as well have your best gear on to do that

Eris

This is why I think that current max level content (like raids and such) are silly. People sit there and run this same dungeon over and over and over and over again to get the coolest most radical gear and be the most uber person in the universe... until the expansion comes and then it's back to the grind. But they don't see it as a grind because it's a raid so it can't be a grind.

I just play the game, I don't worry about the raid, enjoy the stories and adventure. I often wonder why people actively skip the game to get to max level complaining that the game is boring until max level and then they sit and do the same dungeon again and again and again... seems like that is more boring to me.

So in closing, yes, it is pointless to max V10 gear with V12 coming unless of course you need V10 gear to get to V12 which then makes it important. At the moment only the people on the PTS know for sure. Certainly I would be less likely to use my gold upgrades until V12 then at V10.

Emperor

I also don't understand the thought behind grinding to max level. Why would you want to skip the entire game just to get to the end? What are you trying to accomplish? At the end of the game you are done. It's not like the game starts at max level.... it starts at level 1.

I've been playing for countless hours and I'm still only level 31 because I am actually paying attention to the quest stories, trying new things, and exploring every new area that I can. I have some complaints about the game, but overall it has been a great experience. I couldn't imagine having any fun grinding to VR 10 and then complaining that there is nothing to do...

I am not trying to tell you how to play, but it just seems... silly to me.

Maverick827

SirAndy wrote: »

Why not? I made a legendary level 16 axe the moment i had enough tempers to do so.

If you're holding on to your stuff for "endgame" you'll never get to craft anything.
ZOS has stated several times that they'll be adding more content on a more or less monthly basis. Which means VR 10 is replaced by VR12 which is replaced by VR 14 which is replaced by ....

At some point, you gotta just go for it and use them yellow tempers!

I believe this is very detrimental to the end-game. People like to work towards something with the belief that there will be a meaningful payoff in the end. That's essentially the point of life.

Without being able to work towards a full set of legendary gear, knowing that some day I will be done, and will be able to use that gear to excel in the game, at least for a while, why bother with it in the first place?

Bhakura

Emperor wrote: »

I also don't understand the thought behind grinding to max level. Why would you want to skip the entire game just to get to the end? What are you trying to accomplish? At the end of the game you are done. It's not like the game starts at max level.... it starts at level 1.

I've been playing for countless hours and I'm still only level 31 because I am actually paying attention to the quest stories, trying new things, and exploring every new area that I can. I have some complaints about the game, but overall it has been a great experience. I couldn't imagine having any fun grinding to VR 10 and then complaining that there is nothing to do...

I am not trying to tell you how to play, but it just seems... silly to me.

Same here, yes i play fast, but i dont rush, getting max level is least of my concerns.
Just upgraded a green looted shoulderpads because i loved the look of it, what a waste of mats that was, shouldve kept it for endgame? My endgame isnt even in sight yet by the time im there ill have it back two three times over.

Maverick827

I'm going to have to revisit this topic after seeing the latest Zenimax video. It's about using the group finder tool, but if you pay attention, the characters used for the video are VR13 - VR15.

So obviously they plan on raising the cap again right after Craglorn raises it to VR12.

Again I ask, why would I craft VR10 Legendary equipment when VR12 is right around the corner? Why would I craft VR12 Legendary equipment when VR15 is going to be following that (presumably) within a month and a half?

The tried and true formula for MMOs is to present your users with new targets only after they've hit the previous one. This system seems to be asking its players to hit moving target, and I'm not sure that it will turn out well for the game.

Andy22

Ulvich wrote: »

I'm just hope that the new "quest greens" don't exceed the epics we are crafting. That would be a complete waste of mats and time in my opinion.

If we extrapolate by using the current V1-V10 progression and the Normal->Legendary progression we get those V12 values.

V12 2h Fire Staff damage (normal, fine, superior, epic, legendary):
122, 127, 132, 135, 140

So a V12 Epic equals a V10 Legendary or a V12 Fine equals a V10 Superior.

We have around a 4% damage increase every two veteran levels and a avg. 4% increase per rarity level, except from Superior->Epic where its 2.4%.

Liquid_Time

Candy Apple.
Sorry, wrong forum.

No more v ranks.. We need more 1-50 content that makes new accounts enjoyable.. What is wrong with refreshing the old every so often? Lets hope the new guilds/world skills will be in those lower level zones.

Lynnessa

So wait... people were complaining that they were VR10 and there was no "endgame" content for them.... so now that new "endgame" content is coming people are complaining that it's too soon? I should have known better than to look at the forums... have fun, forum people. I wish you luck in your search for more to complain about.

ChairGraveyard

Ulvich wrote: »

I'm just hope that the new "quest greens" don't exceed the epics we are crafting. That would be a complete waste of mats and time in my opinion.

This!

Not to mention the numerous other problems it causes (e.g., VR scaling in PvP already messed up - now it will be even worse within VR..what happens when you have VR30 as the cap? It'd be as bad as a VR10 fighting a level 50 is now... just reinforcing people to not PvP ever).

Maverick827

Lynnessa wrote: »

So wait... people were complaining that they were VR10 and there was no "endgame" content for them.... so now that new "endgame" content is coming people are complaining that it's too soon? I should have known better than to look at the forums... have fun, forum people. I wish you luck in your search for more to complain about.

My highest level character is VR1. My complaint is that, with an ever-increasing level cap, there is no value in crafting a full set of legendary gear because it will be invalidated the next month when VR15 greens are equal to VR12 golds. Knowing this really puts a damper on the game because there is nothing to advance your character towards.

Also, it is possible to release new content without increasing the level cap. In fact, this is the industry standard.

So thank you for your incorrect, dismissive post.

Liquid_Time

Well.. as more legendary sets get created at the different vet levels.. there will be more in circulation for selling/buying. This will take time of course, but as you buy/create your new set. Simply sell your old set and poof.. You may break even or possibly even make more then what you spend on the new set that you have created. There are many ways to look at this situation and that is simply one of them.

Shaun98ca2

I wish they would of just not used levels at all and looked for a more horizontal approach.

Maverick827

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Well.. as more legendary sets get created at the different vet levels.. there will be more in circulation for selling/buying. This will take time of course, but as you buy/create your new set. Simply sell your old set and poof.. You may break even or possibly even make more then what you spend on the new set that you have created. There are many ways to look at this situation and that is simply one of them.

This isn't very realistic. Why would anyone want to buy old, not max-level gear for any meaningful price?

infraction2008b16_ESO

Maverick827 wrote: »

Why bother going out of your way to craft a full set of legendary VR10 gear when VR12 is right around the corner? Why bother crafting legendary VR12 gear when VR15 could be there before you’re even halfway done? Even if VR12 gear is only marginally better than VR10 gear, that’s still enough to question the endeavor in the first place.

Welcome to typical MMO gear progression, you must be new here.

Be prepared to get used to future vendor trash having better stats than your current hard earned highest tiered gear especially after large content updates and expansions.