Auction House coming officially - Sort of

Jeremy

Arreyanne wrote: »

Can see it already 5 months from now with a global AH

I sure hope so

wrlifeboil

codyyoungnub18_ESO wrote: »

Bleh, would rather have a system tied more with cyro.. at least it isn't an auction house. AH's are just awful, I'd prefer a game where everything in game can't be done from stormwind ty.

If we weren't stuck crafting at crafting stations, I'd almost agree with that.

wrlifeboil

Greydog wrote: »

codyyoungnub18_ESO wrote: »

Bleh, would rather have a system tied more with cyro.. at least it isn't an auction house. AH's are just awful, I'd prefer a game where everything in game can't be done from stormwind ty.

Cyrodiil keeps are alright, but they are still limited to a few elite guilds, leaving the majority of the player base outside looking in.

Why go to Stormwind when Ironforge is so much more convenient

Orgrimmar. For the Horde!

Nefar

Guild store system is just not very good system to sell your wares. I'll continue to just sell everything in chat or direct to an npc.

mips_winnt

SadisticSavior wrote: »

...they think a single auction house will contribute to inflation and make it harder for Sellers to make a profit.

Then "they" need some lessons in economics, inflationary economies are GOOD for net sellers (producers) not so good for net buyers (consumers).

What they have now is an economy with very little worth buying or as the case may be the stuff that is worth buying doesn't get very wide exposure to potential customers, so you have the worst of both worlds.... a smaller pool of available goods exposed to a smaller pool of available buyers (which is deflationary),it's essentially a federated economy that is more trouble than it's worth to participate in.

Personally I don't mind though since I've found I can get by just fine not buying anything from other players.

wrlifeboil

mips_winnt wrote: »

SadisticSavior wrote: »

...they think a single auction house will contribute to inflation and make it harder for Sellers to make a profit.

Then "they" need some lessons in economics, inflationary economies are GOOD for net sellers (producers) not so good for net buyers (consumers).

What they have now is an economy with very little worth buying or as the case may be the stuff that is worth buying doesn't get very wide exposure to potential customers, so you have the worst of both worlds.... a smaller pool of available goods exposed to a smaller pool of available buyers (which is deflationary),it's essentially a federated economy that is more trouble than it's worth to participate in.

Personally I don't mind though since I've found I can get by just fine not buying anything from other players.

"Federated economy"? Perhaps you meant feudal economy.

fredarbonab14_ESO

Great news.

mips_winnt

wrlifeboil wrote: »

mips_winnt wrote: »

SadisticSavior wrote: »

...they think a single auction house will contribute to inflation and make it harder for Sellers to make a profit.

Then "they" need some lessons in economics, inflationary economies are GOOD for net sellers (producers) not so good for net buyers (consumers).

What they have now is an economy with very little worth buying or as the case may be the stuff that is worth buying doesn't get very wide exposure to potential customers, so you have the worst of both worlds.... a smaller pool of available goods exposed to a smaller pool of available buyers (which is deflationary),it's essentially a federated economy that is more trouble than it's worth to participate in.

Personally I don't mind though since I've found I can get by just fine not buying anything from other players.

"Federated economy"? Perhaps you meant feudal economy.

No, I meant federated as in a number of semi autonomous units under a single centralized umbrella.. in this case the semi autonomous units are the guild stores with the central entity being the player to non-player economy which at present uses fixed (static) pricing for everything it sells and produces an infinite supply of limited variety.

IMHO the highest probability is that we'll eventually end up with a handful of guild stores where the demand is sufficient to entice producers/sellers to actually sell to other players and the rest will be just not worth bothering to produce/sell since the demand is so low you won't be able to command a price that's worth the time & effort. Thus I suspect most players under the current system will end up where I'm at, just accumulating gold off questing/selling stuff to NPC's and spending gold only in the "non-player economy".

wrlifeboil

mips_winnt wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

mips_winnt wrote: »

SadisticSavior wrote: »

...they think a single auction house will contribute to inflation and make it harder for Sellers to make a profit.

Then "they" need some lessons in economics, inflationary economies are GOOD for net sellers (producers) not so good for net buyers (consumers).

What they have now is an economy with very little worth buying or as the case may be the stuff that is worth buying doesn't get very wide exposure to potential customers, so you have the worst of both worlds.... a smaller pool of available goods exposed to a smaller pool of available buyers (which is deflationary),it's essentially a federated economy that is more trouble than it's worth to participate in.

Personally I don't mind though since I've found I can get by just fine not buying anything from other players.

"Federated economy"? Perhaps you meant feudal economy.

No, I meant federated as in a number of semi autonomous units under a single centralized umbrella.. in this case the semi autonomous units are the guild stores with the central entity being the player to non-player economy which at present uses fixed (static) pricing for everything it sells and produces an infinite supply of limited variety.

IMHO the highest probability is that we'll eventually end up with a handful of guild stores where the demand is sufficient to entice producers/sellers to actually sell to other players and the rest will be just not worth bothering to produce/sell since the demand is so low you won't be able to command a price that's worth the time & effort. Thus I suspect most players under the current system will end up where I'm at, just accumulating gold off questing/selling stuff to NPC's and spending gold only in the "non-player economy".

Interesting perspective thinking of an individual player as the centralized authority. That doesn't make sense in the context of eso. An individual gamer in eso has little or no authority or even oversight over the pricing or goods made available for sale in those so called "semi autonomous" guild stores. In eso, individual buyers can choose either to buy or not buy. That is the extent of their federalised central authority.

The guild stores represent more of a feudal economy where sellers have to join a guild in order to sell their goods in the guild marketplace which happens to be in Cyrodiil for the individual buyer. Eso takes it a step further and pretty much requires buyers to also pledge fealty to the guild because in practice few players travel to Cyrodiil to shop at guild stores. Joining the guild allows them the convenience of shopping at the banks outside Cyrodiil.

wrlifeboil

mips_winnt wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

mips_winnt wrote: »

SadisticSavior wrote: »

...they think a single auction house will contribute to inflation and make it harder for Sellers to make a profit.

Then "they" need some lessons in economics, inflationary economies are GOOD for net sellers (producers) not so good for net buyers (consumers).

What they have now is an economy with very little worth buying or as the case may be the stuff that is worth buying doesn't get very wide exposure to potential customers, so you have the worst of both worlds.... a smaller pool of available goods exposed to a smaller pool of available buyers (which is deflationary),it's essentially a federated economy that is more trouble than it's worth to participate in.

Personally I don't mind though since I've found I can get by just fine not buying anything from other players.

"Federated economy"? Perhaps you meant feudal economy.

No, I meant federated as in a number of semi autonomous units under a single centralized umbrella.. in this case the semi autonomous units are the guild stores with the central entity being the player to non-player economy which at present uses fixed (static) pricing for everything it sells and produces an infinite supply of limited variety.

IMHO the highest probability is that we'll eventually end up with a handful of guild stores where the demand is sufficient to entice producers/sellers to actually sell to other players and the rest will be just not worth bothering to produce/sell since the demand is so low you won't be able to command a price that's worth the time & effort. Thus I suspect most players under the current system will end up where I'm at, just accumulating gold off questing/selling stuff to NPC's and spending gold only in the "non-player economy".

Interesting perspective thinking of an individual player as the centralized authority. That doesn't make sense in the context of eso. An individual gamer in eso has little or no authority or even oversight over the pricing or goods made available for sale in those so called "semi autonomous" guild stores. In eso, individual buyers can choose either to buy or not buy. That is the extent of their federalised central authority.

The guild stores represent more of a feudal economy where sellers have to join a guild in order to sell their goods in the guild marketplace which happens to be in Cyrodiil for the individual buyer. Eso takes it a step further and pretty much requires buyers to also pledge fealty to the guild because in practice few players travel to Cyrodiil to shop at guild stores. Joining the guild allows them the convenience of shopping at the banks outside Cyrodiil.

Vorpedagel

To be honest... I'm getting sick of people saying this game's economy is crap because it doesn't conform to their previous mmo experiences.

Just get good and spend some time learning about this games current economy. There are things different in this game than what most peoplse are used to which is a good thing. Please just take the time out of your "grindgrind-hock all off to auction house-grindgrind" playstyle to enjoy an elder scrolls game.

Audigy

And are players able to sell stuff there if they are not in that specific guild? What about the bidding - will the richest guild on the server always be the highest bidder or are there cooldowns for how often you can bid in a month?

Is it a store each town or a store each faction or a store each server?

Lots of questions.

Humor

WTS- Cruddy band-aid system!

WTB- A real Auction House system!

This doesn't concern, nor will I, or should I use this system. I highly doubt the majority of people "in-Game" not on the forums (which again is a very, very, minority of ESO) will actually use this system, nor favor it.

It's not going to stop, nor slow down the Global chat selling/peddling wares by any means. The only way to do so, is to simply add something that works.

Maybe instead of listening to the forums, Zenimax should I don't know, maybe every week or so, hand out an "In Game" survey, which pops up a little box on the players screen, and have them answer a few questions each week. Thus obtaining data from "In Game" players, should they choose to answer it, or simply close it. This would give great feedback that's not just coming from forums.

I'm willing to bet, that if a question popped up about how satisfied players were with how they go about selling their wares, it would rate a 2.5/5, from all the players who answer. Of course, that's my silly little opinion.

mips_winnt

wrlifeboil wrote: »

mips_winnt wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

mips_winnt wrote: »

SadisticSavior wrote: »

...they think a single auction house will contribute to inflation and make it harder for Sellers to make a profit.

Then "they" need some lessons in economics, inflationary economies are GOOD for net sellers (producers) not so good for net buyers (consumers).

What they have now is an economy with very little worth buying or as the case may be the stuff that is worth buying doesn't get very wide exposure to potential customers, so you have the worst of both worlds.... a smaller pool of available goods exposed to a smaller pool of available buyers (which is deflationary),it's essentially a federated economy that is more trouble than it's worth to participate in.

Personally I don't mind though since I've found I can get by just fine not buying anything from other players.

"Federated economy"? Perhaps you meant feudal economy.

No, I meant federated as in a number of semi autonomous units under a single centralized umbrella.. in this case the semi autonomous units are the guild stores with the central entity being the player to non-player economy which at present uses fixed (static) pricing for everything it sells and produces an infinite supply of limited variety.

IMHO the highest probability is that we'll eventually end up with a handful of guild stores where the demand is sufficient to entice producers/sellers to actually sell to other players and the rest will be just not worth bothering to produce/sell since the demand is so low you won't be able to command a price that's worth the time & effort. Thus I suspect most players under the current system will end up where I'm at, just accumulating gold off questing/selling stuff to NPC's and spending gold only in the "non-player economy".

Interesting perspective thinking of an individual player as the centralized authority. That doesn't make sense in the context of eso.

You misread I didn't say the individual player is the centralized authorithy, I said the player to non-player economy ( or to think of it another way the preprogrammed game logic ) is the central entity.

drschplatt

I'm not a big fan of artificial economic controls in any form. Why not just provide a place for anyone who wants to to buy and sell to anyone they want for whatever they want? If it's a good price, it'll sell, if it's not, it won't. There's no need for all these complicated trade guilds and special setups.

mips_winnt

drschplatt wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of artificial economic controls in any form. Why not just provide a place for anyone who wants to to buy and sell to anyone they want for whatever they want? If it's a good price, it'll sell, if it's not, it won't. There's no need for all these complicated trade guilds and special setups.

I'll second that, I vote MMO's use an Austrian Economic model.

Viva la Von Mises!

annarr1117nub18_ESO

I agree that the economy in TESO is "not" logical and requires major fixing folks!

Catches_the_Sun

I find it interesting that many see this as a great addition & willing to resub based on this upcoming feature. Not that I don't think it's great, but is it that much different than the intended mechanic of keep claiming Guild Stores open to the public? I just don't think many people are aware of how this system is supposed to work & that it is currently bugged. I think if more folks knew that, there would be outcry to get it fixed and at the top of the priority list.

Nazon_Katts

I'm all for decentralized trade, but why must it be so inaccessible and have yet another gold sink added to it? Why not just allow every trading guild at a certain threshold to have a kiosk?

Put them in different phases, let them be searchable at the kiosk, so everyone can find the guild store offering the sought after goods and set a preferred store. And while we're at it, up the member cap of trading guilds to 2.5k so we can use those other slots for actually playing the other aspects of the game.

If they're really so concerned about mudflation, there's an easy solition; don't fight it and implement a global AH. Prices will automatically adjust so that any new player joining at any given time can easily participate in the economy by just selling mats.

Preferably, I'd loved to see trade back in the hands of the individual. I've got nothing against boons for being in a dedicated trading guild, but especially for such a solo friendly game, it really doesn't make sense excluding soloers from game systems and essentially penalizing everyone not in a guild.

Here's hoping player housing will eventually deliver the much needed offline and asynchronous trade option for everyone of us. Toss in a localized, searchable SWG'esque market system and we'd have something to work with.

A vibrant and working economy, even inflated, is vital to transport that 'living world' feeling and thus a factor for the longevity of the game. Right now, and the proposed changes won't do much about that, it's so well hidden and splintered, it's just suffocating trade.

Laerian

Yeah I read on reddit the answer about kiosks

"There will be kiosks in all major cities - with a "seller" vendor NPC. Guilds will be able to bid on each kiosk, if they submit the highest bid, that guild's store will be accessible to everyone who interacts with the NPC. Guild control of a kiosk will last for one week, after which it will be back up for bid."

So I was right, except we still don't know if it's for buying AND selling.

By the way, those dudes calling this "capitalism" are wrong. This is corporatism. The State intervenes the economy to favor a few ( their partners, kins and supporters; usually the richest)

Abigail

I cannot speak for other players, nor shall I endeavor to do so; thus, I convey my circumstances only.

I have four principal alts accounting for all the craft professions. I collect and manufacture all I need. I am entirely self-sufficient. I have never looked for a guild store, indeed I wouldn't know where to find one, mainly because I've never had need to do so. About every other day I sell off 40 stacks of fiber, metal, wood, and potency runes to an NPC. Everything else I collect goes toward improving my crafting skills -- items are either researched or deconstructed.

I've already expanded my bank and my alts' backpacks sufficiently, none of which put my gold into circulation. I've purchased 42K horses for two of my alts, but neither did this put my gold into circulation. At this point I'm simply accumulating gold in anticipation that at some future date there might be something I care to buy.

Am I too different than most players? I don't think so. Does any of this hint at a vibrant economy? No to that as well. From my perspective, and likely for most others, the economy is dead -- at best it's irrelevant.

What trading mechanism would change this circumstance?

1. Accessible -- whatever trading mechanic is implemented must be sufficiently convenient to warrant expenditure of my time.

2. Efficient -- the trading mechanic must be readily utilitarian, not convoluted and confusing to list and search for items.

3. Economical -- the trading mechanic must not add sufficient overhead to my selling/buying processes such that it's more practicable to simply sell to NPCs.

Frankly, I like being self sufficient, but I do accumulate and produce excess materials that others might find useful from time to time. Contrariwise, I sometimes find myself short in one item or another and would avail myself of a trading mechanism if it were practicable to do so. But this is not the case, so I do without.

In some measure, I think my circumstance is what the developers envisioned when they created this game. At most, I'm certain they figured on small clusters of individuals who might trade minimally amongst themselves. It does not suggest a healthy, growing game economy.

I do understand why many players are content with the status quo, but when I hear someone say "the economy is ok," I'm hearing no economy is a good economy.

People play MMOs for all manner of reasons: some simply want to work through all the quest lines, others enjoy PvP, still others are all about the social aspect. And I guess there are a few of us who covet the notion of dwelling in a virtual world as we might in real life, and this aspect very much includes a strong economic component. Without this latter bit, to many of us a huge portion of the game is simply dead. It's not the game world that was most assuredly promised over and over prior to launch.

As I said at onset, I speak only for myself; moreover, I don't expect a majority will comprehend my angst over the economy or lack of a centralized trading hub (read: global marketplace). Simply put, many players don't need it; therefore, they stand all too ready to deny this mechanism to those who would make utility of such a mechanism.

Last I'm saying on the matter, you either get it or you don't.

Shimizu

I think my biggest issue with the system as-is, is that guild stores being the only way to buy and sell is resulting in crappy guilds.

It seems the only goal of a guild leader is to get as many ' bodies' as possible with no regard for anything else.

Despite this mass recruiting tactic, many of the big 500-member guilds have only a couple of hundred items listed for sale, with a large quantity of it being mediocre crap loot, single potions selling for 3g, etc. Just seems a huge waste of time and effort.

Gone are the days of making a guild of friends to adventure together, because you can't unlock the guild features unless you've got 50+ members. I imagine that the guild tabards and such they have planned will have similarly stupid membership requirements.

Gone are the days of growing a guild and community organically.

Guild banks seem to be at best, personal storage for the guild leader & their select few and consist almost entirely of the 15gold motif ittems or random stacks of provisioning items, usually no more than 5 in a stack. Almost like a trash bin really. That nobody can remove anything from

This is my main reason for desiring a global market, so that we can disconnect the guild system from the economy and a small guild of 10-20 players who actually want to have a sense of community can do so without feeling like they have to give up 20% of their market share to do so.

redwoodtreesprite

Hmm. What if the current highest paying guild gets replaced by another? What happens to those who posted there? Would they not be able to access their posts anymore if not in the guild? And if you had to be in the guild to post, what would be the point? There would still be a very limited selection due to the limit of members allowed in one guild...

Edit - Just read the post above about kiosks. Sounds kindof pointless to me, and just another money sink. But I think I see where that guild cut part of each sale in a guild store is going to go.

fredarbonab14_ESO

^^^ "I find it interesting that many see this as a great addition & willing to resub based on this upcoming feature."
How exactly did you come to that conclusion? Because of the whining by some for an AH and this you think will do the trick for them to stay? To me, anyone that would get that bum,bed out because of a lack of an AH, probably won't be staying that long in the game anyway. Might as well leave now and spare US the whining.

Evanis

Laerian wrote: »

Yeah I read on reddit the answer about kiosks

"There will be kiosks in all major cities - with a "seller" vendor NPC. Guilds will be able to bid on each kiosk, if they submit the highest bid, that guild's store will be accessible to everyone who interacts with the NPC. Guild control of a kiosk will last for one week, after which it will be back up for bid."[/i}

This is a positively horrible idea and I'm getting that sinking feeling more and more with this game... It's a no brainer to see who will always be the top bidders: gold sellers or guilds that utilize gold sellers.

Wow... Just wow...

Ummaguma

I so want to control the Kiosk in Reaper's March... have my guild sell nothing but Fire and Poison Resist enchants... MmmHmm... I will make millions... muhaha Hahaha HAHAHA... **snort** haha

SadisticSavior

mips_winnt wrote: »

Then "they" need some lessons in economics, inflationary economies are GOOD for net sellers (producers) not so good for net buyers (consumers).

Already saw this play out in WoW dude...in an effort to undercut each other, sellers were making almost no profit at all. And because of that, crafting (and raiding for rare drops) turned into just another Grind.

That is what they claim they are trying to avoid, and I agree with them.

mips_winnt wrote: »

What they have now is an economy with very little worth buying

...because it is new. There has not been enough time for crafters to specialize. No one even has eight traits in a single item yet.

I don't know if this will work or not...but we have already seen the alternative in WoW, and that is definitely not appealing to me.

SadisticSavior

I should mention...Eve has been doing things in a similar way. There is no server-wide auction house there. Each system is it's own hub. There are major hubs to be sure, but there is no easy way to sell to the entire server at once, and it seems to work there.

scruffycavetroll

wrlifeboil wrote: »

If that is the exact wording, then it's unclear what it really means. When ZOS doesn't spell out an annoucement clearly, recent history has shown that it usually doesn't mean what many players want it to mean.

tl;dr: if you need to parse a ZOS announcement, brace yourself for a letdown

I re-read what he said...and yeah, i had 0 idea what he said. So, my excitement that I'll be able to buy items I might like has pretty much dwindled to nothing.
So much disappoint.

Arreyanne wrote: »

Yup it should remain the way it is

Can see it already 5 months from now with a global AH lvl 10 blues 2 million

and no body will buy it...and if someone does, they're a fool for paying that for a twink.

scruffycavetroll

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