The problem with ESO

tawok

It doesn't force us to group. Since the only negative (other than bugs, ui and "It's not Skyrim 2") I read is "This game is too anti social to be an MMO!", people clearly want to be forced and required to group.

It's definitely not enough design to simply offer public dungeons, instanced dungeons, outdoor bosses in every zone, dolmens(anchors), or massive scale PVP. The only logical conclusion we can draw is that these people want to be required to group.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you gotta shove his head in if you want him to drink!"

Eris

@tawok Your opinion has been noted and my opinion is you are wrong.

Forced grouping is silly in the modern MMO. In order to maintain their business any MMO must be able to attract and retain customers. A lot of older MMO players don't get this but there are a lot more solo gamers than there are force everyone to group gamers.

The MMO developers develop to the largest population and not the smallest, and in generally the larger population want to be able to log on, play the game, and not worry about assembling a team.

awkwarrd

tawok wrote: »

It doesn't force us to group. Since the only negative (other than bugs, ui and "It's not Skyrim 2") I read is "This game is too anti social to be an MMO!", people clearly want to be forced and required to group.

It's definitely not enough design to simply offer public dungeons, instanced dungeons, outdoor bosses in every zone, dolmens(anchors), or massive scale PVP. The only logical conclusion we can draw is that these people want to be required to group.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you gotta shove his head in if you want him to drink!"

It's not that.

It's the phasing people are complaining about.

People can;t always group with their friends in certain situations and are forced to solo certain parts of quests.

While other situations the people nearby can start and complete the quest and you are swept up in the quest progression and it starts and completes for you, where you did nothing but stand there.

tawok

Eris wrote: »

@tawok Your opinion has been noted and my opinion is you are wrong.

Forced grouping is silly in the modern MMO. In order to maintain their business any MMO must be able to attract and retain customers. A lot of older MMO players don't get this but there are a lot more solo gamers than there are force everyone to group gamers.

The MMO developers develop to the largest population and not the smallest, and in generally the larger population want to be able to log on, play the game, and not worry about assembling a team.

You missed my satire, which is a fail if I have to explain it. Alas...

I think having healthy solo play in any game is crucial. Yet every "review", blog post, and every Reddit thread says "The game is too anti-social!". Yet, all the tools are here at your disposal. Couple nights ago, I ran around with a 4 man group doing every public dungeon, boss, and dolmen we could find. Had a blast. We used what was available to us to put the multiplayer back in MMO.

It's just my sarcastic rant about the horrible hive mind that is dead set on destroying this game before it even gets off the ground. They act as if they have valid complaints, yet completely fail to realize that ZoS has lead them to water, they just won't drink.

Edit: Bad Engrish.

Gohlar

They also functionally removed exp from 4 man dungeons and pvp. You can do a quest from the dungeon but that's it.

Grouping shouldn't be forced, but it should be a viable way to level up.

Taid

I see your obvious sarkasm, but you are still right lol.

Public dungeons: Totally easy, not necessary to grp up. Besides theres allways a couple of people camping the elite mob. *cough* No one is even interested in grouping ( i tryd lol ).

What you forgot, Public GROUP Dungeons: Bet even they are too easy and you can jsut run around and wait until somebody else is running in the same way as you lol, no need for grouping, just attack the same target. ( there was only one grp dungeon i grouped up because there were a ridiculous amount of mobs )

Instanced Dungeons: Yep you need to grp up if you want to do it on your level. I appreciate that. Plz more.

outdoor boses: Again, theres allways a bunch of people you attack them anyway. Why doing that annoying "hold button invite everyone, say hello"... at the time you invited the first one the so called world BOSS is allready dead haha.

anchors: Again the same, just run into the mobs there are allready people who fight with you.

PvP: Yes you defintly dont want to go there alone. I found a pvp guild and allways play in grp there. That aspect works.

My conclusion? The "open" World Zones are far to easy. If a boss dies before you even have the chance to grp, something is wrong. If you want to make people play together then you have to create the NEED... just create something that is not doable on your own or in a randompeople zerg.

Im a fan of grp-play and i tryd to make grps for doing stuff together, but even i have to commit that its just a waste of time to grp up for something that last for 5 seconds and is doable on your own.

All hopes for craglorn.

tawok

awkwarrd wrote: »

tawok wrote: »

It doesn't force us to group. Since the only negative (other than bugs, ui and "It's not Skyrim 2") I read is "This game is too anti social to be an MMO!", people clearly want to be forced and required to group.

It's definitely not enough design to simply offer public dungeons, instanced dungeons, outdoor bosses in every zone, dolmens(anchors), or massive scale PVP. The only logical conclusion we can draw is that these people want to be required to group.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you gotta shove his head in if you want him to drink!"

It's not that.

It's the phasing people are complaining about.

People can;t always group with their friends in certain situations and are forced to solo certain parts of quests.

While other situations the people nearby can start and complete the quest and you are swept up in the quest progression and it starts and completes for you, where you did nothing but stand there.

I do agree that phasing can be a pain. When WoW introduced it, it caused the same problems. It still does. Complete the first phase of Icecrown and group up with a buddy. Ain't gonna see him until he finishes the first phase. The only compromise, is to allow your group to enter your phase, but they get no progression. Which wouldn't be too bad, you could group with your buddy and help him out til he catches up.

But seriously, the rest of the complainers need to pull the silver spoon out of their asses and put some effort into it.

Nox_Aeterna

it is a huge problem , but it is not caused by being forced to group or not really.

To me , what made this the most unsocial MMO , is the lack of nametags.

Since i always formed groups with guild members i also saw doing a quest , since i cant tell in this game , i always quest alone , with a very few times when i made a group for it.

That does not mean i dont interact with others , yesterday , a kind person helped me beat a group dungeon boss , he probably could have won alone , but since the boss loved fire and i play a vampire , quite sure i could not. So he helped me quite bit by doing the fight with me. Which is great and all , but these small and very rare encouters , are all i have to show up to veteran 2.

mutharex

If TESO required you to group during leveling more than it does now, people would be bitching about that instead

jvargas150_ESO

You FAIL to understand the problem. I leveled all the way to Rank V1 with a friend, we experience phasing problems if we didn't always wait for each other(perhaps these were bugs) some quest you could share the progress (the beginning of the game) then later on you really couldn't help each other out till about Cold harbor again...


Not to mention, most of us where spoiled by Swtor grouping and questing. The way that game did it makes ESO appear like a terrible mmo, but its not that bad if you just stick together with whoever is questing.

Chryos

Well the main thing is to just find a like minded group of people in your guild or find a guild that favors group events. I find it difficult to get PUG too, but it could be a communication barrier type thing too. Many tiimes I'll find people that dont group but we will just start working together without speaking a word or grouping up offically. kinda weird but it seems to work.

Chili

awkwarrd wrote: »

It's not that.

It's the phasing people are complaining about.

People can;t always group with their friends in certain situations and are forced to solo certain parts of quests.

While other situations the people nearby can start and complete the quest and you are swept up in the quest progression and it starts and completes for you, where you did nothing but stand there.

This, this, this a million times this.

mutharex

Chili wrote: »

awkwarrd wrote: »

It's not that.

It's the phasing people are complaining about.

People can;t always group with their friends in certain situations and are forced to solo certain parts of quests.

While other situations the people nearby can start and complete the quest and you are swept up in the quest progression and it starts and completes for you, where you did nothing but stand there.

This, this, this a million times this.

That's true if you get out of sync with a quest phases, but you can just leave that quest aside and go adventuring:explore, kill stuff together and find other quests that you can start together and play together. It's full out there. It's not THAT bleak like many seem to hint

Allyah

tawok wrote: »

You missed my satire, which is a fail if I have to explain it. Alas...

[...]It's just my sarcastic rant about the horrible hive mind that is dead set on destroying this game before it even gets off the ground. They act as if they have valid complaints, yet completely fail to realize that ZoS has lead them to water, they just won't drink.

Don't worry, tawok, I got it. And if only one person got it, it's successful, right? Right, guys?....

And I've noticed the negativity, as well. In a way, I find it hilarious that so many of the ideas in this forum have so much obviously wrong with them.... I'm weird ...

Tarwin

It may not force you to group, but obviously there are plenty of players that simply don't want to group or rely on being in the same place with others around
So far I'm fairly happy with the way you can go "either or"

Knovah

I dislike a mmo that forced you to group. FF14 was one of those I disliked you were forced to do dungeons to progress in quests. Yes they were simple and took no time .it was still the issue I was Made to do it.

I am not anti social I just do not like the idea of it. Some days I just want to quest and progress and kill other days I want to group and run dungeons. ESO gives me that option and the game fits me perfectly for that reason. I feel there are plenty of options, imho, to group and is a very social game. I do realize not everyone thinks the same and for others it is not, but in the end I still like that choice.

The issues that are blocking many people from grouping is phasing… needs a bit of work and some are having grouping issues with it. They could tweak the xp from groups to be a bit more too, as it stands group xp bites tushy. That might encourage more grouping.

RianaTheBosmer

tawok wrote: »

Eris wrote: »

@tawok Your opinion has been noted and my opinion is you are wrong.

Forced grouping is silly in the modern MMO. In order to maintain their business any MMO must be able to attract and retain customers. A lot of older MMO players don't get this but there are a lot more solo gamers than there are force everyone to group gamers.

The MMO developers develop to the largest population and not the smallest, and in generally the larger population want to be able to log on, play the game, and not worry about assembling a team.

You missed my satire, which is a fail if I have to explain it. Alas...

I think having healthy solo play in any game is crucial. Yet every "review", blog post, and every Reddit thread says "The game is too anti-social!". Yet, all the tools are here at your disposal. Couple nights ago, I ran around with a 4 man group doing every public dungeon, boss, and dolmen we could find. Had a blast. We used what was available to us to put the multiplayer back in MMO.

It's just my sarcastic rant about the horrible hive mind that is dead set on destroying this game before it even gets off the ground. They act as if they have valid complaints, yet completely fail to realize that ZoS has lead them to water, they just won't drink.

Edit: Bad Engrish.

I didn't miss it and I love this game. It's very social, just how social people choose to make it. Hell, I'm always being asked to group by random people and if they ask me to help, I'm happy to do it. See, it's social.

Shimond

I think the majority of the grouping content complaints revolve around phasing and how it's implemented. I don't really see them being able to 'fix' that problem, as it was a conscious design decision to incorporate so much phasing into the game for the single player experience.

Whether or not these people that really really want grouping content will get to Craglorn is the real question. I have a feeling they're missing their audience by introducing Craglorn, well at all (but especially first). People that love to group aren't going to last to endgame (with the exception of forced pairs like husband/wife teams that always play together).

Chili

mutharex wrote: »

Chili wrote: »

awkwarrd wrote: »

It's not that.

It's the phasing people are complaining about.

People can;t always group with their friends in certain situations and are forced to solo certain parts of quests.

While other situations the people nearby can start and complete the quest and you are swept up in the quest progression and it starts and completes for you, where you did nothing but stand there.

This, this, this a million times this.

That's true if you get out of sync with a quest phases, but you can just leave that quest aside and go adventuring:explore, kill stuff together and find other quests that you can start together and play together. It's full out there. It's not THAT bleak like many seem to hint

I was quoting mostly the quest progression with no input from the player, which sucks. I should have clarified more.

Crumpy

I like the game but those ruddy so-called quick-slots are annoying!!

Chalybos

Shimond wrote: »

I think the majority of the grouping content complaints revolve around phasing and how it's implemented. I don't really see them being able to 'fix' that problem, as it was a conscious design decision to incorporate so much phasing into the game for the single player experience.

Whether or not these people that really really want grouping content will get to Craglorn is the real question. I have a feeling they're missing their audience by introducing Craglorn, well at all (but especially first). People that love to group aren't going to last to endgame (with the exception of forced pairs like husband/wife teams that always play together).

Actually, phasing wouldn't be an issue if it just lumped you together according to the lowest/earliest position in the questline. If someone is on part three, and someone else is on part one, the one on part three should be able to phase right to the other player, and stay there, redoing it if need be. And if you've already completed it, then you should sync with the earliest progression and run through it. Phasing drove us nuts in the betas, and honestly it was the reason three of my old-time gamer buddies didn't pick the game up. They considered it to be gamebreaking.

Taid

RianaTheBosmer wrote: »

tawok wrote: »

Eris wrote: »

@tawok Your opinion has been noted and my opinion is you are wrong.

Forced grouping is silly in the modern MMO. In order to maintain their business any MMO must be able to attract and retain customers. A lot of older MMO players don't get this but there are a lot more solo gamers than there are force everyone to group gamers.

The MMO developers develop to the largest population and not the smallest, and in generally the larger population want to be able to log on, play the game, and not worry about assembling a team.

You missed my satire, which is a fail if I have to explain it. Alas...

I think having healthy solo play in any game is crucial. Yet every "review", blog post, and every Reddit thread says "The game is too anti-social!". Yet, all the tools are here at your disposal. Couple nights ago, I ran around with a 4 man group doing every public dungeon, boss, and dolmen we could find. Had a blast. We used what was available to us to put the multiplayer back in MMO.

It's just my sarcastic rant about the horrible hive mind that is dead set on destroying this game before it even gets off the ground. They act as if they have valid complaints, yet completely fail to realize that ZoS has lead them to water, they just won't drink.

Edit: Bad Engrish.

I didn't miss it and I love this game. It's very social, just how social people choose to make it. Hell, I'm always being asked to group by random people and if they ask me to help, I'm happy to do it. See, it's social.

You should be aware .. that this nice pink pair of glasses your wearing might break at some point, and you might EVENTUALLY be very very disappointed, and every whiteknighting you did in the past will be in vain. And in the end you helped noone, neither the game and its community nor your own fun.

Tarwin

Taid wrote: »

RianaTheBosmer wrote: »

tawok wrote: »

Eris wrote: »

@tawok Your opinion has been noted and my opinion is you are wrong.

Forced grouping is silly in the modern MMO. In order to maintain their business any MMO must be able to attract and retain customers. A lot of older MMO players don't get this but there are a lot more solo gamers than there are force everyone to group gamers.

The MMO developers develop to the largest population and not the smallest, and in generally the larger population want to be able to log on, play the game, and not worry about assembling a team.

You missed my satire, which is a fail if I have to explain it. Alas...

I think having healthy solo play in any game is crucial. Yet every "review", blog post, and every Reddit thread says "The game is too anti-social!". Yet, all the tools are here at your disposal. Couple nights ago, I ran around with a 4 man group doing every public dungeon, boss, and dolmen we could find. Had a blast. We used what was available to us to put the multiplayer back in MMO.

It's just my sarcastic rant about the horrible hive mind that is dead set on destroying this game before it even gets off the ground. They act as if they have valid complaints, yet completely fail to realize that ZoS has lead them to water, they just won't drink.

Edit: Bad Engrish.

I didn't miss it and I love this game. It's very social, just how social people choose to make it. Hell, I'm always being asked to group by random people and if they ask me to help, I'm happy to do it. See, it's social.

You should be aware .. that this nice pink pair of glasses your wearing might break at some point, and you might EVENTUALLY be very very disappointed, and every whiteknighting you did in the past will be in vain. And in the end you helped noone, neither the game and its community nor your own fun.

Wow, that outlook really makes me want to wrap myself in barbed wire and rock back n forth in a corner while crying to myself

Allyah

Taid wrote: »

RianaTheBosmer wrote: »

tawok wrote: »

Eris wrote: »

@tawok Your opinion has been noted and my opinion is you are wrong.

Forced grouping is silly in the modern MMO. In order to maintain their business any MMO must be able to attract and retain customers. A lot of older MMO players don't get this but there are a lot more solo gamers than there are force everyone to group gamers.

The MMO developers develop to the largest population and not the smallest, and in generally the larger population want to be able to log on, play the game, and not worry about assembling a team.

You missed my satire, which is a fail if I have to explain it. Alas...

I think having healthy solo play in any game is crucial. Yet every "review", blog post, and every Reddit thread says "The game is too anti-social!". Yet, all the tools are here at your disposal. Couple nights ago, I ran around with a 4 man group doing every public dungeon, boss, and dolmen we could find. Had a blast. We used what was available to us to put the multiplayer back in MMO.

It's just my sarcastic rant about the horrible hive mind that is dead set on destroying this game before it even gets off the ground. They act as if they have valid complaints, yet completely fail to realize that ZoS has lead them to water, they just won't drink.

Edit: Bad Engrish.

I didn't miss it and I love this game. It's very social, just how social people choose to make it. Hell, I'm always being asked to group by random people and if they ask me to help, I'm happy to do it. See, it's social.

You should be aware .. that this nice pink pair of glasses your wearing might break at some point, and you might EVENTUALLY be very very disappointed, and every whiteknighting you did in the past will be in vain. And in the end you helped noone, neither the game and its community nor your own fun.

What utter BS.

Shimond

Taid wrote: »

You should be aware .. that this nice pink pair of glasses your wearing might break at some point, and you might EVENTUALLY be very very disappointed, and every whiteknighting you did in the past will be in vain. And in the end you helped noone, neither the game and its community nor your own fun.

The sane person when they find they don't like doing something, stop doing it. They don't continue to cry about it. They move on.

Taid

Defending stuff that works is ok. Defending stuff that just not work is stupid, or also called whiteknighting. Its like buying a broken car and you refuse to repair it because you like the color. I like the stuff that works and critize the stuff that dont, i feel pretty sane. What about you guys?

Shimond

Taid wrote: »

Defending stuff that works is ok. Defending stuff that just not work is stupid, or also called whiteknighting. Its like buying a broken car and you refuse to repair it because you like the color. I like the stuff that works and critize the stuff that dont, i feel pretty sane. What about you guys?

So you're asserting that the social aspects of this game are completely broken and anyone that says otherwise is full of ***?

And you're saying you're sane?

Viblo

Change the title of this to "My problem with ESO" please...

Taid

Shimond wrote: »

So you're asserting that the social aspects of this game are completely broken and anyone that says otherwise is full of ***?

I never said that, are you totally out of your mind or do you have a problem with reading ? both?

Shimond

Taid wrote: »

I never said that, are you totally out of your mind or do you have a problem with reading ? both?

You never said that? In the context of this thread then, just what are you talking about? You said "just does not work".

Taid

Shimond wrote: »

Taid wrote: »

I never said that, are you totally out of your mind or do you have a problem with reading ? both?

You never said that? In the context of this thread then, just what are you talking about? You said "just does not work".

Boy ! I just gave you my statement about whiteknights in general, after you insulted me being insane for critizing that bosmerguy for being one lol. My opinion about grouping for this Topic oyu can read in the sixth post. I never called them totally broken. Afaik the point of this thread isnt even the whole social aspect of the game, its just grouping!