Sword and Shield DPS?

jones52j

Any suggestions on doing a Sword and board dps setup?

Glurin

Poke em with the sword, bash em with the shield?

Humor

My cousin used a DragonKnight with his Sword and Shield, he was mainly going to use it as a tank, but after we hit level 15 on those characters, he kind of turned into a new direction towards a "Non-Dungeon" build.

I suppose this would go without saying with any class really, but I think in order to accomplish this, you'd pretty much have to go with a Magicka built character. Cousin did that on his DragonKnight, and relied on Enchantments to boost his HP/Stamina, seemed to work like a charm for him. He pretty much avoided all "Crowd Control" skills such as Dragon Talons, and focused mainly on AoE damage, or single target damage skills.

Of course, I've never used Sword and Shield myself, simply basing the statement from what I've seen my cousin use. It got to the point where me, and my friend could barely get one hit off on a group of enemies before they died.

Of course we were also built around a "Trinity" build, so no one really needed to worry about dying (AKA Healer, Dps, Tank). Might be a bit different solo.

EDIT: Also, the ONLY sword and shield skill he actually used was "Puncture", only to reduce enemies armor/spell resistance, which suited his Dps build quite well. I personally would go with an the Armor morph for puncture, but that's me.

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO

jones52j wrote: »

Any suggestions on doing a Sword and board dps setup?

I don't think there's much point in trying to get much dps out of such build. Two-handed or dual-wield offers a lot better passive bonuses to dps. On the other hand, sword and board is a tanking build with bonuses to block mitigation and stamina costs.

I mean, there's plenty of options in the game and you can try to pump out big numbers, but then again, why using shield if you want to burn stuff like there's no tomorrow?

oldkye

I ended up with a sword and shield DPS set up in one weapon slot all of my abilities on that were either class magic based or guild stamina based and I had no room for weapon based skills(the other slot was mostly weapon based skills) so since the weapon I was using only accounted for about 5% of my damage it just made sense after trying different weapons to use sword and shield.

All my abilities required I was up close and since a fair amount of my damage was magic based my I often had stamina to spare for blocking, well dual wield and two handed only seems to increase my damage by a fraction the addition of a shield doubled if not tripled my survivability.

Well purest will say giving up all defense for 1% more damage is worth it I've found in almost any MMO this is not the case saying things like "If you have a good tank you shouldn't get hit" are only good on paper things go wrong in practice and having adaptability greatly increases your chance of victory.

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO

oldkye wrote: »

All my abilities required I was up close and since a fair amount of my damage was magic based my I often had stamina to spare for blocking, well dual wield and two handed only seems to increase my damage by a fraction the addition of a shield doubled if not tripled my suitability.

I've played for a while with both builds and I haven't noticed much of a difference in survivability. In terms of pure defense shield is pointless. I easily go over the softcap on armor with 2-H, 4-M, 1-L without even using buffs. Still, very important bonuses of 1-h and shield is that you get passives for block mitigation and stamina costs of blocking and plus you get one more full enchantment slot. But I don't really think that it will get you 3 times survivability of 2-handed build. Say, in Deshaan I killed every world boss by myself with not much trouble so 2-handed build can be very robust if you know how to use it

oldkye

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO wrote: »

oldkye wrote: »

All my abilities required I was up close and since a fair amount of my damage was magic based my I often had stamina to spare for blocking, well dual wield and two handed only seems to increase my damage by a fraction the addition of a shield doubled if not tripled my suitability.

I've played for a while with both builds and I haven't noticed much of a difference in survivability. In terms of pure defense shield is pointless. I easily go over the softcap on armor with 2-H, 4-M, 1-L without even using buffs. Still, very important bonuses of 1-h and shield is that you get passives for block mitigation and stamina costs of blocking and plus you get one more full enchantment slot. But I don't really think that it will get you 3 times survivability of 2-handed build. Say, in Deshaan I killed every world boss by myself with not much trouble so 2-handed build can be very robust if you know how to use it

You don't block much do you lol? like I said a purest who views it only as a stat stick would disagree lol but this isn't wow with hunters having a weapon on their back they never use the mitigation a shield provides with well timed blocks is "Greatly" superior to that of another weapon.

If the weapon itself is not used for damage it's both a better "stat stick" "and" may as well be used for defense.

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO

oldkye wrote: »

You don't block much do you lol? like I said a purest who views it only as a stat stick would disagree lol but this isn't wow with hunters having a weapon on their back they never use the mitigation a shield provides with well timed blocks is "Greatly" superior to that of another weapon.

If the weapon itself is not used for damage it's both a better "stat stick" "and" may as well be used for defense.

I do block all the time and evade, and interrupt. I just don't see much point in using shield for survivability purposes in PvE. I still group with a board.

The mitigation is superior if you put some points into 1h and shield passives and it's not superior... i think first level of upgrade is 5% less stamina for blocking... Hell yeah! Superior!

oldkye

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO wrote: »

oldkye wrote: »

You don't block much do you lol? like I said a purest who views it only as a stat stick would disagree lol but this isn't wow with hunters having a weapon on their back they never use the mitigation a shield provides with well timed blocks is "Greatly" superior to that of another weapon.

If the weapon itself is not used for damage it's both a better "stat stick" "and" may as well be used for defense.

I do block all the time and evade, and interrupt. I just don't see much point in using shield for survivability purposes in PvE. I still group with a board.

The mitigation is superior if you put some points into 1h and shield passives and it's not superior... i think first level of upgrade is 5% less stamina for blocking... Hell yeah! Superior!

Actually in your attempt to discredit me because you like arguing you make your self look poorly informed lol.

The first ability is 5% less stamina use well blocking "AND" 10% more mitigation "per point" you also forget the base mitigation a shield provides is much higher then other weapons you'd know this if you used one(clearly your knowledge of the skills shows you haven't) other skills include further mitigation to right out reductions of different damage up to 15%.

Taken as a whole blocking with other weapons is laughable in comparison and really better off dodging Also you clearly seem to misunderstand my point you seem to think I was referring to some specific number lol I said "my survivability" aka how often "I" die was twice as good and sometimes higher I may only need a fraction of more mitigation to make that happen lol basically making all your points silly.

You don't want to use a shield cause you "Use" your weapon abilities I get that but where you went wrong was trying to quantify how often another player other then you dies lol.

Jarnhand

I can not compare it to any other weapon spec, but what I can say is that if you are main tank you will use your endurance in no time due to blocking, and hardly have endurance to do attacks.

Judge_Mental_One

FTW, equip shield + 1H weapon of your choice, run/charge up to mob/player, hold right click, then mash left and bash them to death. Repeat as needed.

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO

oldkye wrote: »

Actually in your attempt to discredit me because you like arguing you make your self look poorly informed lol.

The first ability is 5% less stamina use well blocking "AND" 10% more mitigation "per point" you also forget the base mitigation a shield provides is much higher then other weapons you'd know this if you used one(clearly your knowledge of the skills shows you haven't) other skills include further mitigation to right out reductions of different damage up to 15%.

Taken as a whole blocking with other weapons is laughable in comparison and really better off dodging Also you clearly seem to misunderstand my point you seem to think I was referring to some specific number lol I said "my survivability" aka how often "I" die was twice as good and sometimes higher I may only need a fraction of more mitigation to make that happen lol basically making all your points silly.

You don't want to use a shield cause you "Use" your weapon abilities I get that but where you went wrong was trying to quantify how often another player other then you dies lol.

OK, sorry. I didn't want to sound like a smart-ass. I just argue that not using shield doesn't affect survivability in PvE.

Let's do some simple calculations. Currently at level 27 my stamina pool is like 850'ish. Say, I'm fighting a standard group of three enemies - a melee, range and a mage. In that case I'll need to block a heavy attack once, evade ranger's special attack once and interrupt the mage once. By that time they would most likely be all dead. So if you take any of three actions stamina cost even at 200 (although it's less) I'd still have 250 stamina remaining at the end of the fight. I don't see much point in blocking normal attacks, though.

If I fight a world boss I block everything while my stamina in there, after that I pop a stamina bottle, block a little more and then pop 30% heal and magma armor. After that I have 9 seconds of free stamina regen at ~30 per 2 seconds. When magma armor runs out I still have some stamina to block for a little while and by that time hopefully the boss is dead.

Survivability does not depend just on your build, but on you knowing how to utilize your strengths.

oldkye

@pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO lol yup your a expert on how often I die lol please tell me more about my personal survivability since your continuing to argue with me about how often "I" die ^.^

How many times and how often did I die today? lol I'll compare it to my numbers and please don't worry yourself your not sounding like your overdoing the "smart" part.

Back on topic "My" personal survivability of "My" setup when adding a shield is at least twice as good(or half as likely to die)

Shimond

Until Craglorn - just bash for top dps (provided you set up your stats/passives right).

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO

oldkye wrote: »

@pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO lol yup your a expert on how often I die lol please tell me more about my personal survivability since your continuing to argue with me about how often "I" die ^.^

How many times and how often did I die today? lol I'll compare it to my numbers and please don't worry yourself your not sounding like your overdoing the "smart" part.

Back on topic "My" personal survivability of "My" setup when adding a shield is at least twice as good(or half as likely to die)

I was only arguing about how much I die. I don't die much. At all.

And no, we're not back on topic as the topic was about dps, from which, admittedly, we've strayed quite a lot. Anyhoo, I'll check today some dps numbers with sword and board and 2-h and see how it pans out...

oldkye

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO wrote: »

oldkye wrote: »

@pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO lol yup your a expert on how often I die lol please tell me more about my personal survivability since your continuing to argue with me about how often "I" die ^.^

How many times and how often did I die today? lol I'll compare it to my numbers and please don't worry yourself your not sounding like your overdoing the "smart" part.

Back on topic "My" personal survivability of "My" setup when adding a shield is at least twice as good(or half as likely to die)

I was only arguing about how much I die. I don't die much. At all. It was you who started an argument that you die two/three times less often than someone who doesn't use a shield without providing any data to support your point. And now you're just being aggravating.

And no, we're not back on topic as the topic was about dps, from which, admittedly, we've strayed quite a lot. Anyhoo, I'll check today some dps numbers with sword and board and 2-h and see how it pans out...

2-3 times less often "I" died with a shield then "I" died without lol no where did I say others you made that up to argue with me lol I only talked about "my" survivability in fact because survivability isn't in the spell check it was spelled wrong as "suitability" lol I just changed it.

How you could get me comparing my survivability to others from the words "the addition of a shield doubled if not tripled my suitability." is beyond me lol and my point was I was able to do fine DPS and increased my survivability with the addition of a shield the whole point of the topic.

You came along and saw "tripled my suitability" and dove on me that you felt two handeds were better lol do you see how far off base you are here? and how far off topic?

Two handed DPS is also not a on topic post it was a good sword and shield DPS set up which you have pointed out you have no experience with.

so for the last time before you derail it again back on topic "my" DPS set up works fine with a shield it's a fire DK set up and it's quite effective for it's role.

Lynx7386

It's entirely viable to use a sword and shield as a dps character, but probably the only weapon skill you'll end up using is puncture morphed to reduce enemy spell resistance. Your damage will be coming from spells, not from your weapon.

The benefit of having the shield in this kind of setup is extra survivability, and added bash damage. You'll have more armor and defense than a dual wielder, and still be able to use the extra enchantment/set slot from your shield (whereas a 2hander or bow or staff character only gets one enchantment/set slot from their weapon, since no offhand item can be used).

rwood0604_ESO

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO wrote: »

oldkye wrote: »

@pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO lol yup your a expert on how often I die lol please tell me more about my personal survivability since your continuing to argue with me about how often "I" die ^.^

How many times and how often did I die today? lol I'll compare it to my numbers and please don't worry yourself your not sounding like your overdoing the "smart" part.

Back on topic "My" personal survivability of "My" setup when adding a shield is at least twice as good(or half as likely to die)

I was only arguing about how much I die. I don't die much. At all.

And no, we're not back on topic as the topic was about dps, from which, admittedly, we've strayed quite a lot. Anyhoo, I'll check today some dps numbers with sword and board and 2-h and see how it pans out...

You seem to forget that he is only talking about the Weapon skill tree itself here and just because you don't die often as a DK with 2handed doesnt mean you can't die even less often if you had a shield for added defence with is great when using with DK not only combining your blocking/bashing for good dps but using your aoes to add to it and you will *** thing and hardly take damage so, yes OP is correct it does provide more suitability, you just happen to like your build so you are agruing instead of being open minded and seeing all aspects

JJDrakken

Considering how your shield bash with your passives is like the strongest attack in the game.

Yes it's very viable, have fun with it now it's probably going get nerfed soon enough.

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO

OK, I ran tonight with roughly same skill setup on my DK with sword and board and with two-handed. For a particular case of my level 26 char the dps is like this (screens attached):

2-handed: Single target - 110-150
Two enemies - 95 - 120
Three enemies - 80 - 100

1-H and shield: Single target - 80-115
Two targets - 75 - 100

Skill sets are roughly same for both builds: Volatile armor(spiked armor), silver shards (silver bolts), Burning Embers, Stampede (critical charge), Coagulating Blood and Magma Armor as ultimate for 2-handed build.

Volatile armor, Fiery Grip, Burning Embers, Low Slash, Coagulating Blood and Magma Armor for 1-h and board.

On average in terms of dps I get extra 15-25% more with 2-handed. As mobs die faster I don't take much damage either so it works in favor of survivability as well.

JJDrakken

Did you use the shield bash at all? Shield smack the *** out of them, with passive upgrades?

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO

I used shield bash, but I don't have the passive upgrade for it. I have a point in Sword and Board and in Fortress but not the Deadly Bash. I'll find some shards, get a point and see how it fares with shield bash

Drachenfier

JJDrakken wrote: »

Considering how your shield bash with your passives and every rune on your equipment dedicated to it is like the strongest attack in the game.

Yes it's very viable, have fun with it now it's probably going get nerfed soon enough.

Fixed that for you, in bold.

Thechemicals

power bash and the rest magicka based skills. add 20pts into magicka and the rest health. get an amulet to further reduce power bash cost and improve damage. Dont use any other 1h skills but get all the passives, this will give power bash all the stamina it needs to be spammed.

Zakua

I really like my Dark Elf / DK using Ardent Flame / SnB.
Fire for everything is fun and I'll eat Stam foods, boost magic with enchants, health on Jewelry.

I'll admit I am sort of a glass canon in mobs (3+ NPCs) but if I pay attention and do it right I seem to do just fun. The set up I run keeps me on my toes and I like that, if all else fails Bash bash bash bash lol

Grackula

gonna try to set up the S&B bash option listed here. thanks for the tips.

JJDrakken

Drachenfier wrote: »

JJDrakken wrote: »

Considering how your shield bash with your passives and every rune on your equipment dedicated to it is like the strongest attack in the game.

Yes it's very viable, have fun with it now it's probably going get nerfed soon enough.

Fixed that for you, in bold.

It's just EVEN MORE Powerful. I can slice a mob with quick attacks, takes about 7-10 good slashes to drop a mob(no powers). I can smack that same mob like 3x, it's dead.(I have the passives). Plus shield bash animation is so quick! BAM BAM BAM. 3 Hits, while you are still winding up your 2nd attack.

FrauPerchta

I have a sword and board dark elf DK wearing heavy. He doesn't kill fast but he kills everything around him without going down. He takes a beating and keeps on ticking till it time to loot the corpses.

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO

OK, I've got an upgrade into shield bash and done some trials. I've ran through the Shrine of Black Maw in Shadowfen first with 1h and shield and then with two-handed.

On average my dps with 1h and shield was about 85-115 on single target just using bash and about 85-125 if I threw in Burning Ambers regularly. The highest dps I managed to achieve was 132. On two-three packs dps dropped significantly to 70-90 and since I'd run out of stamina fairly quickly with bashing at the end of the battle I'd have no stamina left for interrupts/blocking.

Two handed went much better. First of all my top dps was 196 which is a huge improvement. I had between 100-170 on average vs a single target, about 85-120 vs groups of 2-3. The lowest dps I got was 82 when fighting gargoyle because the *** doesn't get stunned if a heavy attack was blocked.

All in all, after two days of trying I can safely say that at my character level and with my build two-handed weapon gives much better dps, faster progression and same/better survivability compared to 1H and shield.

Maybe with the second upgrade and more points into stamina the results would be better for the shield. Currently i use 8-9-9 setup.

LadyInTheWater

There's no reason it wouldn't be viable to play as DPS with a sword and shield. The only people who will disagree with this are the min/max players who plan on squeezing out every last drop of damage output.

The passives for the 1h+Shield skill tree add quite a bit in the way of defenses. If this was a different MMO, where tanks scooped up every add in the room and the DPS just needed to stand in one place and mash their damage buttons, it probably wouldn't be very useful.

But in ESO, where the tank is usually handling only one or two different monsters, the added survivability from the 1h+Shield passives would help you survive a minor mistake, whereas other DPS players would most likely die.

If it's fun for you, go with it. Just expect to get a lot of backlash from the Armchair Athletes who only care about big damage numbers.

On a side note, the healers might love you for using a taunt to pull an add off them once in awhile.

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO

I still do use 1h and shield in grouping, don't get me wrong, although i want to try going with 2-handed. I'm just trying to show that in PvE outside grouping 2-handed is better than 1h and shield in terms of pure dps.

And I'm not a min/max player, I've been running for quite a while with a shield and was surprised when I started using 2-h how easier life has become