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Possible huge problem with combat in this game - working as intended or major programming flaw?
Hadan_of_Rift
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So, there is a ton of complaints about being "1-shoted in PvP" Now it really isn't 1 attack but it feels like that because you die before you can even turn around or do anything and most of the time it's someone using a BOW.
So, I stumbled on this today and I am curious is this is working as intended or not?
Overriding abilities is the flaw. Using the BOW is the easiest to test and use it with simply because you can hold a Heavy Attack charged for close to 10 seconds, but you can do it with any weapon.
In most MMO's you need timing, which is why a lot of them have a Global Cooldown. Meaning you use an ability then then need to time when you use the next ability. If you click it too early nothing happens.
In ESO it seems not only is there no global cooldown but you can override abilities before the animation is finished and fire off 2 abilities at the same time. Since BOW is the easiest to do this with I will use that as the example (however, this works with any weapon)
If you hold a Heavy Attack on the bow and sneak around when something comes into range INSTEAD of releasing the mouse you click another ability, Silver Bolts for example, what happens is both the bows's heavy attack and Silver Bolts fire at the same time. The result is both attacks receive stealth critical damage on the target.
Now I have tested this and every single test on 3 combat logs show both abilities firing and both abilities receiving stealth critical damage.
So working as intended or major programming flaw? Again Bows is the easiest to test this with because of the ability to hold the Heavy Attack but it works with 2-Handed, Dual, etc every weapon.
So, I stumbled on this today and I am curious is this is working as intended or not?
Overriding abilities is the flaw. Using the BOW is the easiest to test and use it with simply because you can hold a Heavy Attack charged for close to 10 seconds, but you can do it with any weapon.
In most MMO's you need timing, which is why a lot of them have a Global Cooldown. Meaning you use an ability then then need to time when you use the next ability. If you click it too early nothing happens.
In ESO it seems not only is there no global cooldown but you can override abilities before the animation is finished and fire off 2 abilities at the same time. Since BOW is the easiest to do this with I will use that as the example (however, this works with any weapon)
If you hold a Heavy Attack on the bow and sneak around when something comes into range INSTEAD of releasing the mouse you click another ability, Silver Bolts for example, what happens is both the bows's heavy attack and Silver Bolts fire at the same time. The result is both attacks receive stealth critical damage on the target.
Now I have tested this and every single test on 3 combat logs show both abilities firing and both abilities receiving stealth critical damage.
So working as intended or major programming flaw? Again Bows is the easiest to test this with because of the ability to hold the Heavy Attack but it works with 2-Handed, Dual, etc every weapon.
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ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭I open up on player with teleport strike, rapid strikes, then swallow soul, drain essence, and then they're usually dead by then, or I finish them off with another rapid strike."It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey0 -
ArRashid✭✭✭✭Maybe in PvP... god how I hate PvP.
Try that in PvE on VR levels and you won't even get mob under 80%. However mobs can do that too and you might find yourself dead in 2 hits as well - since VR mobs have several times more HP and damage than player.3 -
Teloran✭✭✭Animation cancelling is a know issues. It's due to the fact that skills override basic attacks in an effort to combat input lag. Om the same token, blocking overrides abilities and basic attacks, hence all the people complaining about bash.1 -
Crescent✭✭✭✭Stealth bonus should also break once a single attack hits. Whichever one registers first should negate the other.
And tbh the bow is too good a weapon with the spammable knockback and damage that is competitive with melee weapons.2 -
Hadan_of_Rift✭✭✭✭
No people complain about Bash because you can do crazy damage with the skill line and rings and necklace boost and reduce the Stamina cost to 9 stamina... yes you read that right 9 stamina, when other abilities cost 328Animation cancelling is a know issues. It's due to the fact that skills override basic attacks in an effort to combat input lag. Om the same token, blocking overrides abilities and basic attacks, hence all the people complaining about bash.
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Teloran✭✭✭Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »
No people complain about Bash because you can do crazy damage with the skill line and rings and necklace boost and reduce the Stamina cost to 9 stamina... yes you read that right 9 stamina, when other abilities cost 328Animation cancelling is a know issues. It's due to the fact that skills override basic attacks in an effort to combat input lag. Om the same token, blocking overrides abilities and basic attacks, hence all the people complaining about bash.
That is true in part, but it's much more powerful since you can do three attacks in slightly more time then it would take to do one without animation cancelling.
Regardless, it's irrelevant to the OP.
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Hadan_of_Rift✭✭✭✭Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »
No people complain about Bash because you can do crazy damage with the skill line and rings and necklace boost and reduce the Stamina cost to 9 stamina... yes you read that right 9 stamina, when other abilities cost 328Animation cancelling is a know issues. It's due to the fact that skills override basic attacks in an effort to combat input lag. Om the same token, blocking overrides abilities and basic attacks, hence all the people complaining about bash.
That is true in part, but it's much more powerful since you can do three attacks in slightly more time then it would take to do one without animation cancelling.
Regardless, it's irrelevant to the OP.
Yes, but a similar issue, to the OP, that a lot of things are broken with the combat system. It's not that big of a deal in PvE but in PvP, which is a huge part of the game, it's a major issue. When you have players building around 1 ability, Bash, and running around just spamming bash it's an issue.
Edited by Hadan_of_Rift on April 30, 2014 5:35PM0 -
Hadan_of_Rift✭✭✭✭No listing in 1.1 patch notes so working as intended I guess? Though there are a ton of bugs reported that aren't listed in 1.1 patches which is a sad note0
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Rainingblood✭✭✭FYI- Bow us the only weapon with which you can hold the heavy attack to fire when you release the button. Are you saying that with other attacks it would work if you timed it precisely?Edited by Rainingblood on May 2, 2014 11:20PMPhoebe Anderson0 -
fantom✭Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »The result is both attacks receive stealth critical damage on the target.
Now I have tested this and every single test on 3 combat logs show both abilities firing and both abilities receiving stealth critical damage.
WRONG. The second attack does not receive the sneak attack bonus. There is nothing wrong with sneaking and there is no "programming flaw."
Here's proof (took me 2 minutes in game... no one else bothered to check this guy's claim?).
Here's what happens if you hold a heavy attack and press Silver Bolts to open combat:
Here's what a real Silver Bolts sneak crit looks like:
And just for fun, here's the crit values for Silver Bolts in combat (from the front, just standing there and spamming it while being attacked):
Notice how it's exactly the same value as the "combo" opener with the charged heavy sneak attack + silver bolts? Everything is working just fine.
It's not possible to double up on sneak damage bonus. There is nothing to worry about.2 -
Crescent✭✭✭✭Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »
No people complain about Bash because you can do crazy damage with the skill line and rings and necklace boost and reduce the Stamina cost to 9 stamina... yes you read that right 9 stamina, when other abilities cost 328Animation cancelling is a know issues. It's due to the fact that skills override basic attacks in an effort to combat input lag. Om the same token, blocking overrides abilities and basic attacks, hence all the people complaining about bash.
That is true in part, but it's much more powerful since you can do three attacks in slightly more time then it would take to do one without animation cancelling.
Regardless, it's irrelevant to the OP.
Yes, but a similar issue, to the OP, that a lot of things are broken with the combat system. It's not that big of a deal in PvE but in PvP, which is a huge part of the game, it's a major issue. When you have players building around 1 ability, Bash, and running around just spamming bash it's an issue.
It IS a huge issue in PvE.
Because suddenly it becomes the standard for DPS, and when I get into a group I'm expected to participate in this exploit for the sake of efficiency when I will NOT want to engage in this kind of sad exploit under any circumstances.0 -
Hadan_of_Rift✭✭✭✭@fantom Your image is showing your Silver Bolts Critical hitting right after the Heavy attack. Show me an image of Heavy attack critical hitting and Silver Bolts NOT critical hitting. Because you are using animation canceling BOTH attack are auto critical hits. That is the issue on top of firing off 2 abilities at the same time, so yes there is an issue.
Here are my images:
1st Silver Bolts only from stealth
And then Charged Heavy Attack triggered by activating Silver Bolts to fire off both attack at same time
Edited by Hadan_of_Rift on May 5, 2014 3:16AM0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you ever played dc online, it functions the same there and is called "clipping". This game reminds me a lot of dc combat, so the use of clipping is hardly surprising. Bear in mind that you are burning through resources faster this way. I am on a vacation right now, but when i get back i plan to test out clipping in eso.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>0 -
Hadan_of_Rift✭✭✭✭
Yes, but is it intended or a programming issue, that's my point.dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »If you ever played dc online, it functions the same there and is called "clipping". This game reminds me a lot of dc combat, so the use of clipping is hardly surprising. Bear in mind that you are burning through resources faster this way. I am on a vacation right now, but when i get back i plan to test out clipping in eso.
When you can use it to gain a possible unfair advantage in PvP it seems messed up. I would like ESO to say yes it's intended or not. Either way I think more people should know how and why they are getting "1-shoted" in PvP (even though it really isn't 1 shot.. see OP)
Edited by Hadan_of_Rift on May 5, 2014 6:10AM0