State of the PvP in a few weeks with AoE cap

Pryda

Lot of spells are currently capped to 6 targets, which leads to this kind of gameplay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o&hd=1

In few weeks, every organized pug zerg will play like this (even sooner by sharing this kind of video). You'll have to deal with it no matter what you prefer, small scale or zerging.

Please dislike this video as well.

Edit: what's wrong about this gameplay: it's just a "ball" that you don't move out to exploit the fact AoE are capped to 6 targets (most of them). If you move from the ball, you get killed (like I did in the second or third scene). You should be punished by AoE is you stand still like this.

This is on LIVE server.

Utherix

Could you explain a little more what is happening is what is wrong with it?

prana33b14_ESO

Utherix wrote: »

Could you explain a little more what is happening is what is wrong with it?

AOE only hits 6 targets so they ball up and the aoes randomly hit 6 players instead of hitting all of them. Healers heal through this with ease and the zerg ball grows.

awkwarrd

So this is in PTS right now?

Im wondering why no one is able to die, they all just take random bits of damage every now and then, all the while standing in the aoe..

Hm...

awkwarrd

4:40 - There is 5-6 standards dropped in a zerg.. and no-one dies..

awkwarrd

Someone liked the video for the music.. and the music only.. haha

EliteZ

And how is this any different then standing in a zerg ball and aoeing down EVERYONE not just 6 targets?

Asava

PvP will be incredibly boring when no one dies....

awkwarrd

I guess single target bow zergs will be the new things.

Samadhi

Gee, this looks so much better than a small amount of coordinated players being able to wipe a zerg.

Do not want.

firestorm_rmb16_ESO

EliteZ wrote: »

And how is this any different then standing in a zerg ball and aoeing down EVERYONE not just 6 targets?

The difference being,

1 purposely hurts a form of damage to better the casual PvPr who doesn't understand the concept of spreading out and mitigating damage through actively playing.

2 being that AOE damage is already considerably lower so capping it was a terrible move to begin with.

prana33b14_ESO

EliteZ wrote: »

And how is this any different then standing in a zerg ball and aoeing down EVERYONE not just 6 targets?

The bigger zerg will virtually always win by having healers spam heal through the random aoe hits. The bigger and more disorganized a zerg gets the more vulnerable it should be to small groups who are organized instead of just spamming heals, mashing buttons and running through the smaller zergs ala gw2. 30 people not noticing the stealthers in that 1st video should die for bunching up and not checking their surroundings like they did, not take a few random hits mash heals, wipe the defenders and take the keep.

EliteZ

firestorm_rmb16_ESO wrote: »

EliteZ wrote: »

And how is this any different then standing in a zerg ball and aoeing down EVERYONE not just 6 targets?

The difference being,

1 purposely hurts a form of damage to better the casual PvPr who doesn't understand the concept of spreading out and mitigating damage through actively playing.

2 being that AOE damage is already considerably lower so capping it was a terrible move to begin with.

1. Hmm, so because aoe caps at 6 players, people that don't know how to actively play will find it easier? How? I'm not sure about you, but if I was just going to sit there and spam AOE, I'd much rather it to hit every player then just 6. Making aoe only hit 6 targets makes you look at different approaches then just spamming aoe like everyone does atm, because it won't be as effective.

2. Okay, so because aoe damage is low, when they decide to cap it at 6 targets to make it even more of a "terrible move" EVERYONE will then decide to use this "terrible low damage move"? I know, they made AOE weaker, OMG LET'S ALL USE IT....

And as for healers, spamming aoe healing will keep players alive a lot longer when they heal the entire zerg, rather then just 6 people.

I see people crying "omg aoe cap limits small groups from taking on large groups". While this will be true, small groups should have a very hard time taking down larger groups. You shouldn't be able to take down 30+ people with a 4 man group, at least not easily. Because a group of 4 people mass aoe spamming a larger group in a choke point is so skilful, right?

Having an aoe cap at 6 targets is perfectly fine and a lot of games have an aoe cap. GW2 has aoe cap, WoW has an aoe cap and so forth,

Xsorus

EliteZ wrote: »

firestorm_rmb16_ESO wrote: »

EliteZ wrote: »

And how is this any different then standing in a zerg ball and aoeing down EVERYONE not just 6 targets?

The difference being,

1 purposely hurts a form of damage to better the casual PvPr who doesn't understand the concept of spreading out and mitigating damage through actively playing.

2 being that AOE damage is already considerably lower so capping it was a terrible move to begin with.

1. Hmm, so because aoe caps at 6 players, people that don't know how to actively play will find it easier? How? I'm not sure about you, but if I was just going to sit there and spam AOE, I'd much rather it to hit every player then just 6. Making aoe only hit 6 targets makes you look at different approaches then just spamming aoe like everyone does atm, because it won't be as effective.

2. Okay, so because aoe damage is low, when they decide to cap it at 6 targets to make it even more of a "terrible move" EVERYONE will then decide to use this "terrible low damage move"? I know, they made AOE weaker, OMG LET'S ALL USE IT....

I see people crying "omg aoe cap limits small groups from taking on large groups". While this will be true, small groups should have a very hard time taking down larger groups. You shouldn't be able to take down 30+ people with a 4 man group, at least not easily. Because a group of 4 people mass aoe spamming a larger group in a choke point is so skilful, right?

Having an aoe cap at 6 targets is perfectly fine and a lot of games have an aoe cap. GW2 has aoe cap, WoW has an aoe cap and so forth,

Those two games, have some of the worst Mass PvP ever because they have an AoE Cap

Jackiepvp

Just to re-iterate, this is in LIVE. This is happening RIGHT NOW.

The beauty of it all is that most people are ignorant to it, while uncapped AoE exists, the statement that most of it is uncapped is rather false. Heck, even templar Nova ultimate is capped and has been capped since LAUNCH. People didnt notice perhaps because the interface and combat responsiveness of this game is terrible.

To make it plain, this "minimalistic" UI caused the masses to be ignorant about the games mechanics. You assume your AoE is uncapped because it only makes sense and then if mobs dont take damage you simply assume they were out of range.

But when you explore, a lot of things are infact capped. Sure, battle standard may not be capped, but you know what is? The shackles synergy you get to use off the battle standard. Obviously Grand Healing/Healing Ritual/Blessing of Protection have been capped since launch. I am not going to make a comprehensive list, you can test most things with the new addon made (notice how we need addons to figure the game out, exactly the argument the PTS testers were making when Zenimax decided to strip the API).

The point is, Pryda's video has ALWAYS been the most effective way to play the game, since launch, most people simply didnt know it due to lack of game information in this roleplay friendly game. Once the patch hits to cap the AoE skills which are uncapped, the issue with combat demonstrated in the video will be exacerbated.

EliteZ

As somebody else has posted in another topic

No AoE cap really requires small groups to have skill when defeating larger groups right?

I mean this video: http://www.twitch.tv/prydatv/c/4079857 proves that if you are a small group of players going against larger groups you really need coordination's, skill and a lot of "active playing".

Or in other words, run in behind a larger group and simply spam your aoe ability while they are already busy fighting. Nerfing that crap is the right way to go.

prana33b14_ESO

Rofl. Magelite by any of those baddies before charging in or simply not bunching up would have saved them. Screw making people actually think though right? NERF STUFF!

We get it. You like semi-afking while being a mindless zergling.

awkwarrd

@Jackiepvp
Was waiting for you to mention something about the skills tooltips in there somewhere

EliteZ

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

Rofl. Magelite by any of those baddies before charging in or simply not bunching up would have saved them. Screw making people actually think though right? NERF STUFF!

We get it. You like afking while being a zergling.

Oh yes, because you can not bunch up in a small room right?
"Right guys, only 10 of you enter the room at a time so you can't be aoed down, when they die, another 10 will run in behind. Oh and make sure you have magelight or GTFO, we don't want you to get killed by some mindless aoe spam"

prana33b14_ESO

EliteZ wrote: »

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

Rofl. Magelite by any of those baddies before charging in or simply not bunching up would have saved them. Screw making people actually think though right? NERF STUFF!

We get it. You like afking while being a zergling.

Oh yes, because you can not bunch up in a small room right?
"Right guys, only 10 of you enter the room at a time so you can't be aoed down, when they die, another 10 will run in behind. Oh and make sure you have magelight or GTFO, we don't want you to get killed by some mindless aoe spam"

Looooooooool
Looooool.

How many people need to be standing there to flip keep? They ran in behind them btw.

Zolyok

I think it's time now for Zeni to give us their decision

EliteZ

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

EliteZ wrote: »

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

Rofl. Magelite by any of those baddies before charging in or simply not bunching up would have saved them. Screw making people actually think though right? NERF STUFF!

We get it. You like afking while being a zergling.

Oh yes, because you can not bunch up in a small room right?
"Right guys, only 10 of you enter the room at a time so you can't be aoed down, when they die, another 10 will run in behind. Oh and make sure you have magelight or GTFO, we don't want you to get killed by some mindless aoe spam"

Looooooooool
Looooool.

How many people need to be standing there to flip keep? They ran in behind them btw.

Not everybody plays with their friends, so you often get these large zerg groups for players that hop in alone or just simply want to try out pvp, should they round around solo and take keeps that way?

Yes I know they ran in from behind and kill them before they would have even had a chance to turn around and do something about them. Because they used cheap brainless aoe spam to wipe them out.

I mean if they was skilled, they'd set up some kind of ambush or something, take them out in a smart way, but nope, they stealth in and spammed aoe. These guys are so skilful right? Aoe from the shadows ftw!

Jackiepvp

EliteZ wrote: »

Not everybody plays with their friends, so you often get these large zerg groups for players that hop in alone or just simply want to try out pvp, should they round around solo and take keeps that way?

Yes I know they ran in from behind and kill them before they would have even had a chance to turn around and do something about them. Because they used cheap brainless aoe spam to wipe them out.

So, they should die 6 at a time? Its fair that a random 6 of them die at a time? That is our best solution? Rather than nerf some key offending skills (bat swarm, battle standard, talons, the fact that ultis build so damn fast) you find it a better solution to simply cap all aoe which leads to a whole different set of problems that you are conveniently ignoring.

tonyglissonb14_ESO

If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics suck.

prana33b14_ESO

And here we are. Whining to cater to the bad casual players because they can't be expected to have situational awareness and check for stealthers ( a skill given right away in the game LOL) or deal with their Aspergers syndrome and be expected to join organized groups if they want to not die to organized groups.

Samadhi

EliteZ wrote: »

...
I mean if they was skilled, they'd set up some kind of ambush or something, take them out in a smart way, but nope, they stealth in and spammed aoe. These guys are so skilful right? Aoe from the shadows ftw!

So you see the video as them making a sudden coordinated stealth attack to mow down a large group of unprepared enemies, as opposed to an ambush?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ambush

2. A sudden attack made from a concealed position.

EliteZ

Jackiepvp wrote: »

EliteZ wrote: »

Not everybody plays with their friends, so you often get these large zerg groups for players that hop in alone or just simply want to try out pvp, should they round around solo and take keeps that way?

Yes I know they ran in from behind and kill them before they would have even had a chance to turn around and do something about them. Because they used cheap brainless aoe spam to wipe them out.

So, they should die 6 at a time? Its fair that a random 6 of them die at a time? That is our best solution? Rather than nerf some key offending skills (bat swarm, battle standard, talons, the fact that ultis build so damn fast) you find it a better solution to simply cap all aoe which leads to a whole different set of problems that you are conveniently ignoring.

I never once said having a cap at 6 players for aoe was the best solution, I never even said I agree to it. I'm simply stating the fact that people are crying over it like it's something massive, when half of their arguments about it are stupid.

Aoe does need a nerf, the only thing that will prevent large group zergs is reducing the amount of brainless aoe spam possible which is in the game now and will still be in the game if they do make all aoe skills have a cap at 6 targets.

prana33b14_ESO

EliteZ wrote: »

the only thing that will prevent large group zergs is reducing the amount of brainless aoe spam possible which is in the game now and will still be in the game if they do make all aoe skills have a cap at 6 targets.

This is verifiably false. GW2 turned into zerg vs. zerg because of these caps. You are wrong.

EliteZ

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

EliteZ wrote: »

the only thing that will prevent large group zergs is reducing the amount of brainless aoe spam possible which is in the game now and will still be in the game if they do make all aoe skills have a cap at 6 targets.

This is verifiably false. GW2 turned into zerg vs. zerg because of these caps. You are wrong.

And this game is already zerg vs zerg, what's your point? Every time I've entered pvp all you hear is "lfm <keep name> raid".

I'm simply asking how is capping skills at 6 players going to cause people to zerg, when they are already doing it.

prana33b14_ESO

So we're going in circles now? That question has already been answered in this thread and others.

tonyglissonb14_ESO

Not all of us are zerging. I spend most of my time in pvp in 2 to 3 man groups. we plan, we pick our fights. we have fun. And i play a sword and board templar in full heavy armor.