Tanking is not fun, let us do more than taunt.

Ralathar44

DPS in this game is fun. Healing in this game is actually pretty fun, something that is very hit and miss in alot of MMORPGs. It's very rewarding to play as both DPS and healer.

However Tanking is another story. Spamming taunt on something, being at the center of every boss AOE (requiring you to be much more on cue to avoid any of them) getting punted around by various bosses, and not being able to use any of your stamina for basically anything but defense and taunting is not fun.

What needs to happen:

Give tanks some way in which they can actually use more than taunt 90% of the time in tough fights. I know this is going to be tough balance wise. But the job of a tank needs to be a little more fun and rewarding than it currently is. The start of this is letting them do more than just taunt. Making this happen without DPS people being able to abuse it in the current system will be tough, but it needs to happen.

This by itself will give alot more variety to the tanks game play. Then we can step back and decide if tank needs something more to make it more interesting.

steinernein

Ralathar44 wrote: »

...

At what veteran dungeon are you experiencing this, what set up are you running, what are your teammates running? I know for a fact that the first three vet dungeons only has one fight that restricts the tank to almost pure defense/debuff/taunt role - if you're playing conservatively - but the rest allow the tank to DPS freely.

In a matter of fact, if you're only blocking and spamming taunt you're holding your group back (or maybe your group is holding you back). Even with a non-optimized group my tank is often attacking more than defending.

lajnus86b16_ESO

im with you vet tank here the issue is the cost and our stamina regenration/resource.

to be worthwhile to slot an ability, we are even forced to have defensive stance in the bar, without ever using it on bosses almost.

There need to be somthing done about our stamina, and our ways to use stamina ability, 1hand and shield is a joke.


got no stamina regen ability, no aoe, they are expensive as hell compared to other weapon lines.

We dont have any ability, that reduces damage taken slow boss attackspeed/damage or increase boss damage taken to be worthwhile to pick up.

Besides our taunt,

We dont have anything besides in our own skill line that can buff group aka dk molten weapons and igneous shield to bolster survivability if aoe that cant be dodged from a boss.

All dk tanks is using taunt > razor armor > dragon blood > iron fist that gives 600 armor.

or reflective scales against magic boss.

and then on our 5th slot we have an ability just sitting there. to reduce the amount of damage you can block and reduces the cost instead of making that as a passive in the tree.

I feel with you tanking is bad as it is now.

lajnus86b16_ESO

steinernein wrote: »

Ralathar44 wrote: »

...

At what veteran dungeon are you experiencing this, what set up are you running, what are your teammates running? I know for a fact that the first three vet dungeons only has one fight that restricts the tank to almost pure defense/debuff/taunt role - if you're playing conservatively - but the rest allow the tank to DPS freely.

In a matter of fact, if you're only blocking and spamming taunt you're holding your group back (or maybe your group is holding you back). Even with a non-optimized group my tank is often attacking more than defending.

Your job as a tank is to make it easy for the group to do their job, not make it harder with gimping the amount of damage you can take, they should make offensive abilities for tanks that are worthwhile to use over blocking and taunting.

that is the problem, if you are using damaging abilities on the boss you are doing it wrong, even if you can do it its bad game design move by zenimax.

check the skill line of one hand & shield.

its utterly useless for pve.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

lajnus86b16_ESO wrote: »

Your job as a tank is to make it easy for the group to do their job, not make it harder with gimping the amount of damage you can take, they should make offensive abilities for tanks that are worthwhile to use over blocking and taunting.

that is the problem, if you are using damaging abilities on the boss you are doing it wrong, even if you can do it its bad game design move by zenimax.

check the skill line of one hand & shield.

its utterly useless for pve.

Well I find every S&B quite effective at pulling their job.

Puncture : Moderate dmg ability with a powerfull resistance debuff and taunting your target. That's a quite powerfull ability there for you and your team.

Deep Slash : Yeah this one is kinda limited, the damage can save some of your squishy friends but you can find similar effects on other powers.

Defensive Posture : Next single target spell Healing yourself or dealing damage to your boss and block cost reduction on top of it! .

Shield Charge : That jerk is attacking my healer, how does he dare .Interceeeeept!!!!

Power Bash : My friends are in trouble but that nasty half giant skelleton won't leave me alone! Stay where you are, I'll finish you later!


So yeah all abilities are situational at best, but again that's the point of your abilities. They can be used in situations for ressource manadgement, it might cost you some stamina in the process. But doing so might also spare the magicka or the stamina of some of your friends, even for yourself (in the longe run), because you used one of those powers to your advantage.

And that's the beauty of this game! Finding a good combination of powers and knowing when to use those at their most efficient extend.

Axer

You're taunting 90% of the time?

Um.. I could see how that's not fun.

Dude, the taunt lasts 15 seconds. It takes 0.3 seconds to activate. That's 14.7 seconds of doing other stuff every 15..

95% of my dps and what I do is not taunting personally. And I really enjoy tanking in this game.

You can dps too. It's a simple matter of counting to 12/15 in your head (or installing FTC so you can watch the 12 second countdown on the screen). (12 seconds is the debuff duration, which is worth maintaining on most enemies, if everyone's hitting it).

Anzer

You should consider using some of your class abilities, a number of them are quite fun and some even provide you with benefits such as CC, buffs, etc...
If you're having issues with magicka, I might recommend equipping 2 pieces of light armor for their passives.

lajnus86b16_ESO

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

lajnus86b16_ESO wrote: »

Your job as a tank is to make it easy for the group to do their job, not make it harder with gimping the amount of damage you can take, they should make offensive abilities for tanks that are worthwhile to use over blocking and taunting.

that is the problem, if you are using damaging abilities on the boss you are doing it wrong, even if you can do it its bad game design move by zenimax.

check the skill line of one hand & shield.

its utterly useless for pve.

Well I find every S&B quite effective at pulling their job.

Puncture : Moderate dmg ability with a powerfull resistance debuff and taunting your target. That's a quite powerfull ability there for you and your team.

Deep Slash : Yeah this one is kinda limited, the damage can save some of your squishy friends but you can find similar effects on other powers.

Defensive Posture : Next single target spell Healing yourself or dealing damage to your boss and block cost reduction on top of it! .

Shield Charge : That jerk is attacking my healer, how does he dare .Interceeeeept!!!!

Power Bash : My friends are in trouble but that nasty half giant skelleton won't leave me alone! Stay where you are, I'll finish you later!


So yeah all abilities are situational at best, but again that's the point of your abilities. They can be used in situations for ressource manadgement, it might cost you some stamina in the process. But doing so might also spare the magicka or the stamina of some of your friends, even for yourself (in the longe run), because you used one of those powers to your advantage.

And that's the beauty of this game! Finding a good combination of powers and knowing when to use those at their most efficient extend.

you dont seem to understand what i am going at, thing is the abilities are Not doing an effect, as tank you dont want a flat damage ability.

you want to use an ability that deals damage, and buff the group or debuffs the target.

right now the only one we have is puncture, also i dont even use puncture, i use the undaunted taunt every good tank uses it for a good reason.

magicka is easy to recover stamina you dont recover fast enuff.

also you dont need the charge and its expensive(check the cost)

you will be better off with the undaunted taunt that has almost the exact range as the charge.

and also i am not talking about trash, trash is ok and fun, its aoeing picking up most dangerous targets and rooting/ensnaring aoe damage and slowing/blinding and interupting the mobs. while tanking the big fella of all the trash mobs.

Im talking about Boss fights, boss fights are redundant and boring.

and yes you are right it is situational.

But lets look at it from a perspective, shouldnt a good working concept be fun? should you gimp your job aka mitigation resistance/armor/health and make it harder for healer.

just so you can have fun? i really dont agree with that, just as i dont agree with having a dps that can pick up a terrible dps spells in their bar just becuse "they like them"


i am not talking about absolute min/max here but to some degree.
the one hand & shield need a massive look at for pve.

i dont wanna deal same amount of damage as a dps but i also dont wanna just taunt selfbuff and just autohit and block.

I want to have some rewarding damaging ability for tanking a boss and have a rotation and stance dance between my 2 bar:s.

and as i said before when raids come and bosses hit harder, well good luck if they dont fix the one hand & shield tree.

lajnus86b16_ESO

Axer wrote: »

You're taunting 90% of the time?

Um.. I could see how that's not fun.

Dude, the taunt lasts 15 seconds. It takes 0.3 seconds to activate. That's 14.7 seconds of doing other stuff every 15..

95% of my dps and what I do is not taunting personally. And I really enjoy tanking in this game.

You can dps too. It's a simple matter of counting to 12/15 in your head (or installing FTC so you can watch the 12 second countdown on the screen). (12 seconds is the debuff duration, which is worth maintaining on most enemies, if everyone's hitting it).

He is talking about he aint using his stamina for his one hand and shield abilities becuse its not worth it, for Cost/damage/debuff/duration.

Do the calculation you simply understand that a simple "bash" would do more damage and dont cost so much stamina from the one hand a shield line.

magicka is never the issue its the stamina, that is the issue the cost of one hand and shield and the effect the abilities give.

Read all the morph and what they give for a tank instead of saving your stamina.

you will quickly understand that using any ability for stamina in 1hand & shield line is just not worht it besides bash and block or the taunt.

This is the sole idea of the problem.

steinernein

lajnus86b16_ESO wrote: »

Your job as a tank is to make it easy for the group to do their job, not make it harder with gimping the amount of damage you can take, they should make offensive abilities for tanks that are worthwhile to use over blocking and taunting.

that is the problem, if you are using damaging abilities on the boss you are doing it wrong, even if you can do it its bad game design move by zenimax.

check the skill line of one hand & shield.

its utterly useless for pve.

No, your job as a tank is to hold aggro while dealing the most amount of the damage while taking the least amount of damage. So, if you are using damaging abilities on the boss you're doing it right so long as your damage intake is not unsustainable.

For that you need to do damage and the 1H/1S has at least three solid abilities for tanking.

And your thinking is a bit too narrow, it's not about making the healer work harder it's about maximizing DPS. If you decrease the healer's DPS by 100 because he or she needs to heal more but increase your own or your party's by 200 then it's a solid win.

lajnus86b16_ESO

steinernein wrote: »

lajnus86b16_ESO wrote: »

Your job as a tank is to make it easy for the group to do their job, not make it harder with gimping the amount of damage you can take, they should make offensive abilities for tanks that are worthwhile to use over blocking and taunting.

that is the problem, if you are using damaging abilities on the boss you are doing it wrong, even if you can do it its bad game design move by zenimax.

check the skill line of one hand & shield.

its utterly useless for pve.

No, your job as a tank is to hold aggro while dealing the most amount of the damage while taking the least amount of damage. So, if you are using damaging abilities on the boss you're doing it right so long as your damage intake is not unsustainable.

For that you need to do damage and the 1H/1S has at least three solid abilities for tanking.

And your thinking is a bit too narrow, it's not about making the healer work harder it's about maximizing DPS. If you decrease the healer's DPS by 100 because he or she needs to heal more but increase your own or your party's by 200 then it's a solid win.

you do realize a healer that can dps instead of the tank is dealing more damage than a tank right?

steinernein

lajnus86b16_ESO wrote: »

you do realize a healer that can dps instead of the tank is dealing more damage than a tank right?

Read what I wrote, think about it, then confound it; I will reiterate what I said. If you can gain more overall DPS despite taking away one player's DPS it is a win -- it is a tank's job to make those situations happen as often as possible without risking a wipe.

Our tank can go up to 400 DPS while costing our healer only 100 or so, if he didn't do that then it would be 200~ DPS for the tank. It all depends on your set up, the resources available, and the individual fight mechanic.

lajnus86b16_ESO

steinernein wrote: »

lajnus86b16_ESO wrote: »

you do realize a healer that can dps instead of the tank is dealing more damage than a tank right?

Read what I wrote, think about it, then confound it; I will reiterate what I said. If you can gain more overall DPS despite taking away one player's DPS it is a win -- it is a tank's job to make those situations happen as often as possible without risking a wipe.

Our tank can go up to 400 DPS while costing our healer only 100 or so, if he didn't do that then it would be 200~ DPS for the tank. It all depends on your set up, the resources available, and the individual fight mechanic.

im already doing 400 dps, and i see your point, but that is not the core problem the problem is how expensive abilities of stamina from 1hand and shield and what they give.

I can deal more damage and i slot more damage abilities, the problem here is the cost effeciency for tank abilities are awful, and the damage/debuff it brings to the table.

Not about that i can swap out for magicka based abilites.

its about the 1hand and shield ability line, 1hand and shield is not the only one, other weapon lines have their issues aswell.

Lenthas

level 22 templar here, bow/1h, and I can tell u for sure that bosses differ every time.

The LAST one in wayrest sewers, u do have to "spam" taunt, but I also spam restoring aura while blocking since she does a ton of physical damage.

On the other hand the same dungeon first boss is a mage, so I just make sure he's taunted from time to time and spend more than 80% of the time using bow along with backlash spam i mostly dps.

People really need to learn to NOT get stuck on 1 role, there are optimum times (like I mentioned first, last boss of same dungeon) where its logical to stay tank all the time due to boss mechanics, but when there is no need for it, just switch to dps.

Don't complain that if u have all 1h skills you don't seem to do as well as some one who is hybrid.

Hybrid means not do top notch on specific role, but you are far more versatile otherwise, hybrids usually suck in raiding, but seeing as so much difficulty is put into raiding, it may turn out to shine rather than stink and rot.

lajnus86b16_ESO

Lenthas wrote: »

level 22 templar here, bow/1h, and I can tell u for sure that bosses differ every time.

The LAST one in wayrest sewers, u do have to "spam" taunt, but I also spam restoring aura while blocking since she does a ton of physical damage.

On the other hand the same dungeon first boss is a mage, so I just make sure he's taunted from time to time and spend more than 80% of the time using bow along with backlash spam i mostly dps.

People really need to learn to NOT get stuck on 1 role, there are optimum times (like I mentioned first, last boss of same dungeon) where its logical to stay tank all the time due to boss mechanics, but when there is no need for it, just switch to dps.

Don't complain that if u have all 1h skills you don't seem to do as well as some one who is hybrid.

Hybrid means not do top notch on specific role, but you are far more versatile otherwise, hybrids usually suck in raiding, but seeing as so much difficulty is put into raiding, it may turn out to shine rather than stink and rot.

enjoy that hybrid when you go into craglorn and your tank gets smashed into pieces by one hit with that hybrid build.

Ofcourse you throw around abilities i do it all the time, but as i mentioned above is not the case, ive done statistics tested theorycrafted http://forums.elitistjerks.com/

and i am at VR rank you are 22 the bosses hits like sissies and have 0 abilities.
come back here and say that if you get to vr rank and do the VR dungeons wich are suppose to be easier variant of craglorn 12 man.

Just telling you ive been level 22 aswell, and the point being back then it was worthwhile using them, now they cost to much for what they offer.

The scaling of weapon lines as i mentioned above is a bit of and some morphs are just wierd and is not even worthwhile for endgame pve. infact almost none in 1hand and shield are.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

Hey Lajnus,

It might be related to our own core impressions when we play the game, but it would be very insightfull if you would tell us :
- what you expect out of the Sword&Board weapon set.
- how you like to play the tank in this game, not like in other games.
- propose a couple of ideas you think might improve its gameplay.

Because I don't see any issues with that set right now, most of the defensive benefits comes from passives and the active abilities are all situational at best like any skills in the game.

If you are looking for more buffs or debuff you might want to look into class abilities, undaunted also got a nice mitigation power with extra utility on top of it.

Also please don't disregard oppinion or assume people will fail in higher lvl content because they go for an hybrid build. Because :
- Most of the damage reduction on block and stamina manadgement come from your S&B passives and the extra mitigation comes from class/undaunted active abilities. So if it is hybrid it might use one of those.
- Secondly, your team brings utilities too and can make up for the things you are lacking in your build. So if it works, why would you prevent someone to have his fun with his own build?

Also try not to speak to much about your "theory crafting, guides, etc". I know as much misinformed people running around with false guides (not saying you are) as I know people who know exactly how works abilities in this game.

Just check the last post complaining about dodge as a proof, it shows the lack of knowledge of many people in this game. Also it doesn't help in anyways to improve the discussion, so it is pretty pointless information.

Finaly wait until you get V10 with your gear maxed out we might get suprised in the end sinds weapon abilities still scales with our increased weapon damage while magicka abilities stays almost the same from V1 to V10.

Peace!

Audigy

A tank is supposed to tank, not to DPS. There are games where a tank doesn't do any DPS but is using CC or taunts only with an occasional heal.

The concept of dps tanks that Blizzard has is wrong, a tank should never just like a healer be a DPS char. A healer has to heal and buff or debuff, a tank has to protect the group and the dps they do the damage.

If you enjoy doing damage, you might better roll a dps char.

lajnus86b16_ESO

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Hey Lajnus,

It might be related to our own core impressions when we play the game, but it would be very insightfull if you would tell us :
- what you expect out of the Sword&Board weapon set.
- how you like to play the tank in this game, not like in other games.
- propose a couple of ideas you think might improve its gameplay.

Because I don't see any issues with that set right now, most of the defensive benefits comes from passives and the active abilities are all situational at best like any skills in the game.

If you are looking for more buffs or debuff you might want to look into class abilities, undaunted also got a nice mitigation power with extra utility on top of it.

Also please don't disregard oppinion or assume people will fail in higher lvl content because they go for an hybrid build. Because :
- Most of the damage reduction on block and stamina manadgement come from your S&B passives and the extra mitigation comes from class/undaunted active abilities. So if it is hybrid it might use one of those.
- Secondly, your team brings utilities too and can make up for the things you are lacking in your build. So if it works, why would you prevent someone to have his fun with his own build?

Also try not to speak to much about your "theory crafting, guides, etc". I know as much misinformed people running around with false guides (not saying you are) as I know people who know exactly how works abilities in this game.

Just check the last post complaining about dodge as a proof, it shows the lack of knowledge of many people in this game. Also it doesn't help in anyways to improve the discussion, so it is pretty pointless information.

Finaly wait until you get V10 with your gear maxed out we might get suprised in the end sinds weapon abilities still scales with our increased weapon damage while magicka abilities stays almost the same from V1 to V10.

Peace!

Sure,

what would i like to se?

blocking(mouse 2) The damage mitigation should be nerfed somewhat however there should be things to buff it out of items,wich im sure will happen with craglorn patch already.


Holding up block should drain 0.5 or 1% of max stamina even if you dont block, making it skillful and using it at right situation and punishing you even more for spamming it, would be good balance for pvp aswell.


Cost of abilities in 1hand in shield line is to expensive in what they do and offer for tanking.

be it damage,debuff the boss,buff the raid/group and duration.


Like power bash, reduce cost with like 20-40 stamina. once you shield slammed the target gets confused and attacks slower for 10 seconds.

Morph 1 target takes 5% more damage under the debuff duration,

Morph 2(more pvp centric and could work for pve in some cases) Silences target also for 2 seconds.



Defensive Posture, passive in having this on the bar should be removed and place into the passive tree in one hand in shield, stun is useless on pve bosses endgame they are immune for balance and mechanics keep the morphs they are good.

making it a spellcaster passive for bosses great to have, but you dont slot it during trash or bosses for the active you do it for the block increase and mitigation(yes even bosses who are physical thats how good the passive is)

Puncture, keep it as it is, nothing is wrong with it.

Low lash, change it so its an cone/aoe so we have 1 aoe in the 1hand and shield line. however make the immobolize a 60% movementspeed slow instead.

Shield charge stuns already both morphs are kinda silly.

morph 1, redirect 20% of damage taken from group/raid members to you. in a 5 yard radius.

Morph 2. keep it as it is for pvpers.

Battlefield mobility change that passive to following.

Strenght & durability 0/2 : everytime you use and ability in one hand and shield, there is a small chance to look into your inner strenght and recover stamina by x % of stamina used of your ability.

The stamina this gives should not give more than a cost like between 10-20% of the cost of the ability at 2/2. so you actullay have to manage your resources.

And cant spamm them.

Sword and board and deadly bash goes against eachother, why buff your damage with shield and sword, yes bashing cost stamina.

But the issue is i rather see them just buff the sword damage than buffing bash at all.

anyway these things are nothing i wanna go into here,

Might even be good if we could had one more ability that buffs the groups damage or health as we tank but then they gotta add another spell in 1hand and shield.

you wouuld not slot all of the one hand and shield abilites, but this gives u reason to not have the taunt that cost stamina only on your bar or immovable.

As it right now stands.

the issue with tanks as i have stated above is the cost > what it does > duration > damage. of the ability equal to its cost.

these changes would nerf 1hand and shield line while also buffing it, to make it less stale and would be a lot more fun and feel more rewarding to tank, and you would feel like you did somthing besides just standing there and taunting and selfbuffing yourself and autohitting and moving.

this would encourage having rotation with some of the active stamina abilites to keep debuff up on boss to reduce the damage of the boss to you and to the raid.

Giving you also more EHP(effective health points) and making tanking less redundant and boring and also more skillful.


Look at other mmo:s how tanking is used, there is a reason for it, it makes tanking skillful and fun, and no i am not asking for copy paste of rift,wow,aion,gw2 or anything.

Im asking look how tanking is used there come with a mix of conclusion to define your own way of tanking.

becuse right now its just one pile of mixed things that aint fun, aint rewarding to be skillful and yea.

Vuchew

"Fun" is a subjective category. What gives you "fun" is more or less - your area for concern.
As far as tanking is concerned - there is (and should not be) no DPS in a tank build and skills. Forget about this - there is a DPS role. The tank must focus the hits on him and "endure" them - that's it. He must have heavy "oh ***" skills which allow him to get extra defense for 3 - 4 - 5 seconds during big boss abilities. Maybe a debuf for the boss. Nothing more.
Templar has all of the above in class skill lines. 1h & Shield and the Undaunted provide the rest.

The fact that you can change weapon sets and skills at any given moment is enough to give you the "fun" moments in the game - since you are not stuck with one build during all the fights and the whole dungeon.

If you want some healing skills also in the tanking set ..... well .....

Anastasia

Audigy wrote: »

A tank is supposed to tank, not to DPS.

---

Archaic reference to how it has been done in other games.

ESO<making ya think several times a minute ;o).

Vuchew

Anastasia wrote: »

Archaic reference to how it has been done in other games.

True! That's why you can change weapon set and skills and become a healer during the very same combat in which you were tanking 1 second before.
But you CAN'T tank - using tanking skills and gear - and do DPS in the same time with the same skills. It's just too much.

All classes can be everything - tank, healer, DPS.
All players have so many skill points that they can build up - at least two full scale roles in their builds.
All players can change full equipment and skills and play different roles during the same raid.
All players can switch weapon / skill set and change role in the very same combat itself.

If you want to add a tanking sills which do DMG in the same time - I think its just too much to ask from a game that still wants to have some basic roles visible.

Ralathar44

Axer wrote: »

You're taunting 90% of the time?

Um.. I could see how that's not fun.

Dude, the taunt lasts 15 seconds. It takes 0.3 seconds to activate. That's 14.7 seconds of doing other stuff every 15..

95% of my dps and what I do is not taunting personally. And I really enjoy tanking in this game.

You can dps too. It's a simple matter of counting to 12/15 in your head (or installing FTC so you can watch the 12 second countdown on the screen). (12 seconds is the debuff duration, which is worth maintaining on most enemies, if everyone's hitting it).

How often you taunt depends entirely on the boss. Some bosses are a taunt fest because they constantly drop aggro and go attack other people, making you need to re-taunt them. Some bosses seem to almost completely ignore taunting allowing you to DPS at the expensive of not being able to do your job as well.

But for a large number of the dungeons out there you have to taunt ALOT. You get punted around ALOT. You also have to try and avoid some of the AOEs. It's not as simple as hitting the taunt button once every 15 seconds.

Then around that you have to keep stamina on hand in case you need it for defense/breakouts/rolls. Whatever you have left you get to use for DPS, assuming you are not also having to control adds...because no boss has those right?

Ralathar44

Audigy wrote: »

A tank is supposed to tank, not to DPS. There are games where a tank doesn't do any DPS but is using CC or taunts only with an occasional heal.

The concept of dps tanks that Blizzard has is wrong, a tank should never just like a healer be a DPS char. A healer has to heal and buff or debuff, a tank has to protect the group and the dps they do the damage.

If you enjoy doing damage, you might better roll a dps char.

Honestly the point is nothing to do with that. The point is that it is plain more fun to play a healer or DPS by a wide margin. You're playstyle as healer and DPS is more dynamic and more varied.

Tanking is pretty rote and you have to deal with every annoying ability in the game more than anyone else. You may as well call tank footballs because they get kicked around so much for example.

lajnus86b16_ESO

Ralathar44 wrote: »

Axer wrote: »

You're taunting 90% of the time?

Um.. I could see how that's not fun.

Dude, the taunt lasts 15 seconds. It takes 0.3 seconds to activate. That's 14.7 seconds of doing other stuff every 15..

95% of my dps and what I do is not taunting personally. And I really enjoy tanking in this game.

You can dps too. It's a simple matter of counting to 12/15 in your head (or installing FTC so you can watch the 12 second countdown on the screen). (12 seconds is the debuff duration, which is worth maintaining on most enemies, if everyone's hitting it).

How often you taunt depends entirely on the boss. Some bosses are a taunt fest because they constantly drop aggro and go attack other people, making you need to re-taunt them. Some bosses seem to almost completely ignore taunting allowing you to DPS at the expensive of not being able to do your job as well.

But for a large number of the dungeons out there you have to taunt ALOT. You get punted around ALOT. You also have to try and avoid some of the AOEs. It's not as simple as hitting the taunt button once every 15 seconds.

Then around that you have to keep stamina on hand in case you need it for defense/breakouts/rolls. Whatever you have left you get to use for DPS, assuming you are not also having to control adds...because no boss has those right?

retaunt when u have taunt up have never happened to me, however what happens is that bosses have abilities they throw around at others, this might be your miss conception of losing agro?

Becuse ive not encountered one boss that goes to hit another, however ive been experinced bosses bugging, running around in room and not being able to taunt them(yes bugg)

Not immune to taunt but they bugg out still killed the boss but still hillarious, best example is fire of the maw in banished cells.

sCouraGeFire

I think tanking is fun.

Redguard Templar tank using:

Ransack
Puncturing sweep
Reflective light (or blazing spear)
Invasion
Immovable (or absorb magic)

Empowering sweep (or solar disturbance)

Sometimes I remove Invasion and replace with Blazing Spear/Binding Javelin or Absorb Magic.

I use 5 heavy and 2 light armor

My second hotbar is archery and I often off tank when I run as dps.

A standard pull for me is to attack with reflective light 1-2 times on different targets to hit everything(or blazing spear then reflective), then use invasion on the healer mob or the highest threat, then puncturing sweep everything, I usually have enough ultimate to use empowering sweep and only have to use my taunt on bosses or that one mob that likes to go for the healer. After my initial attack I usually start to block and spam puncturing sweep with the occasional blazing spear thrown in, and quick melee hits for the free stamina.

sCouraGeFire

.

jarededward86

I agree with some of the balance issues brought up here but I may be too low lvl to have experienced the stamina consumption. I use quite a bit more than just taunt. I usually taunt a couple targets throw up a shield and get to work doing other things (block & dps) until the taunts expire. Thanks to the active fight mechanics in this game I think blocking and swinging a sword is actually pretty rewarding, but that’s just my opinion.
I'm running DK Tank using puncture, low slash, shield charge, spiked armor and dragon blood (for the most part). I'm only lvl twenty three. I know things will be different in vet lvls. I’m just wondering HOW different and how well what I’m doing now will translate later. It would seem that in longer boss fights I would have to conserve stamina for taunting.
As of now, I use low slash on multiple targets with every pull for damage mitigation and it may not be stamina efficient enough to justify its use but, like I said, at this lvl I have no stamina problems and it allows me to contribute to the group in a more substantial way.
I use shield charge for utility but I’ve got to say I’ve questioned its sustainability already because it drains a lot of stamina and I’ve got it morphed for the damage shield but the shield time up is very short. By the time the target I hit is unstunned, the shield is gone.
I’m thankful that my survivability is dependent only on my mana pool, using spiked armor and dragon blood. That being said, I can see that there could be some improvement here. I need my mana for the aforementioned survivability so I can’t afford any damage or cc skills from my class skill line.
In my opinion what we need is an AoE ability that reduces damage taken on ourselves and deals damage overtime… like dragon knight standard. When DK standard is up, I imagine the rest of the group standing back in awe as I taunt every target in a big group and stand in the middle of them with my spikes out while they all melt to death. That’s how I want to feel when tanking. I just think we need a less powerful AoE from the sword and board line to use in a similar way for smaller fights and between DK standard procs.

lajnus86b16_ESO

jarededward86 wrote: »

I agree with some of the balance issues brought up here but I may be too low lvl to have experienced the stamina consumption. I use quite a bit more than just taunt. I usually taunt a couple targets throw up a shield and get to work doing other things (block & dps) until the taunts expire. Thanks to the active fight mechanics in this game I think blocking and swinging a sword is actually pretty rewarding, but that’s just my opinion.
I'm running DK Tank using puncture, low slash, shield charge, spiked armor and dragon blood (for the most part). I'm only lvl twenty three. I know things will be different in vet lvls. I’m just wondering HOW different and how well what I’m doing now will translate later. It would seem that in longer boss fights I would have to conserve stamina for taunting.
As of now, I use low slash on multiple targets with every pull for damage mitigation and it may not be stamina efficient enough to justify its use but, like I said, at this lvl I have no stamina problems and it allows me to contribute to the group in a more substantial way.
I use shield charge for utility but I’ve got to say I’ve questioned its sustainability already because it drains a lot of stamina and I’ve got it morphed for the damage shield but the shield time up is very short. By the time the target I hit is unstunned, the shield is gone.
I’m thankful that my survivability is dependent only on my mana pool, using spiked armor and dragon blood. That being said, I can see that there could be some improvement here. I need my mana for the aforementioned survivability so I can’t afford any damage or cc skills from my class skill line.
In my opinion what we need is an AoE ability that reduces damage taken on ourselves and deals damage overtime… like dragon knight standard. When DK standard is up, I imagine the rest of the group standing back in awe as I taunt every target in a big group and stand in the middle of them with my spikes out while they all melt to death. That’s how I want to feel when tanking. I just think we need a less powerful AoE from the sword and board line to use in a similar way for smaller fights and between DK standard procs.

What will happen is your stamina will drain faster, and ofc you cant hold up shield 24/7 no one can, that would be op.

the skills you use right now is useful endgame, but shield charge aint so much. except for trashmobs.

bossfights its razor armor,green dragonblood(more stamina reg). defensive pusture,reflective scale,ingeous weapons,ingious shields. stone giant and ash cloud. those are the core abilities you will use in pve enviroment as tank, for tanking then you throw in some for dps you will have 300 skillpoints so dont worry.

ChampionSheWolf

When I tank, I buff myself, I CC groups of mobs, and I use my taunt. I don't know exactly what you are doing OP, but it sounds like you are doing everything wrong.

Wifeaggro13

IMO the Tank role in VR needs quite a bit of working. the current combat mechanics for trash is messy. social ranges are large and frequently you will get multiple rooms of Trash from one pull whether you taunt, body pull, range pull. there is no rhyme or reason and no skill or knowledge involved there. That mechanic would be fine if there were actual CC abilities everything is short lived broken by damage easily and high cost. So a lot of these trash pulls in veteran dungeons becomes clump them up and AOE them down. tanks need not even play the role here pull out your destro staff and burn them down that much faster.

Boss mechanics are quite a bit better the Tank has clear defined role but the unfortunate part is at the end of the day you don't even need a tank for them. but you do need DPS and heals a lot of the fights are positional and about moving the boss , or killing adds, swapping DPS or the like the only thing SNS brings to the table is blocking and mitigating damage. But again a decent healer will negate the need for that. Add the fact that all the bosses are immune to every damn thing a tank brings to the table other then taunt. Some of the bosses are immune to that too.

The tank role needs serious reworking in ESO as well as CC its a after though here with very little definition. its not a whine about agro management i completely understand the mechanics and the action combat. We are rolling through the VR dungeons with little issue though some bosses still have fun challenging mechanics. On the whole the tank job is quite boring and muddy add in the fact that for certain classes Like DK. if your going for a heavy armor wearing DK you will do more damage standing there holding the right mouse button and shield smashing the mob. many of the Melee skill lines are just bad. two hander is slow and cannot produce good dps with fights that require a lot of movement.Dual wield has a bit better DPS but its lacking at its back end.

But all that said i really Enjoy ESO its got a crap load of high high quality content. Graphics are beyond good. progression is very different with lots of options.They need to really tweak their mechanics and concepts here i would hate to see it go the route of GW2 that game absloutley sucked for group mechanics and MMO combat.Bringing some skill to the tank role and abilities to control a 15 mob fight would be useful. Either that or some abilities to actually pull with out massive social issues. 6 to 10 mobs on the screen is hectic 15 is just eye strain , add in zero control. the fact all your gap closer's cannot break through the field depth due to the targeting picking the closest mob. It's all no beuno. Currently tanks will be very bored and frustrated. add in the later game when people are geared they wont even use them.

lajnus86b16_ESO

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

IMO the Tank role in VR needs quite a bit of working. the current combat mechanics for trash is messy. social ranges are large and frequently you will get multiple rooms of Trash from one pull whether you taunt, body pull, range pull. there is no rhyme or reason and no skill or knowledge involved there. That mechanic would be fine if there were actual CC abilities everything is short lived broken by damage easily and high cost. So a lot of these trash pulls in veteran dungeons becomes clump them up and AOE them down. tanks need not even play the role here pull out your destro staff and burn them down that much faster.

Boss mechanics are quite a bit better the Tank has clear defined role but the unfortunate part is at the end of the day you don't even need a tank for them. but you do need DPS and heals a lot of the fights are positional and about moving the boss , or killing adds, swapping DPS or the like the only thing SNS brings to the table is blocking and mitigating damage. But again a decent healer will negate the need for that. Add the fact that all the bosses are immune to every damn thing a tank brings to the table other then taunt. Some of the bosses are immune to that too.

The tank role needs serious reworking in ESO as well as CC its a after though here with very little definition. its not a whine about agro management i completely understand the mechanics and the action combat. We are rolling through the VR dungeons with little issue though some bosses still have fun challenging mechanics. On the whole the tank job is quite boring and muddy add in the fact that for certain classes Like DK. if your going for a heavy armor wearing DK you will do more damage standing there holding the right mouse button and shield smashing the mob. many of the Melee skill lines are just bad. two hander is slow and cannot produce good dps with fights that require a lot of movement.Dual wield has a bit better DPS but its lacking at its back end.

But all that said i really Enjoy ESO its got a crap load of high high quality content. Graphics are beyond good. progression is very different with lots of options.They need to really tweak their mechanics and concepts here i would hate to see it go the route of GW2 that game absloutley sucked for group mechanics and MMO combat.Bringing some skill to the tank role and abilities to control a 15 mob fight would be useful. Either that or some abilities to actually pull with out massive social issues. 6 to 10 mobs on the screen is hectic 15 is just eye strain , add in zero control. the fact all your gap closer's cannot break through the field depth due to the targeting picking the closest mob. It's all no beuno. Currently tanks will be very bored and frustrated. add in the later game when people are geared they wont even use them.

Couldnt phrased it much better myself, dont you get frustrated aswell about the stamina? that there is no point for us to use the SNS abilities becuse they cost to much and deal so little damage and the debuff/buff they offer is nothing, wich have been the case for tank forever before, either low dmg debuff, and the abilities have X percentage threat increase for making up for low damage and debuff it gives for the raid/groups:s dps, or surviveability.

Right now SNS gives none of that, well puncture but thats the taunt anyway so.

and as i said yea you can check the cost and what the damage scales with what sort of stats and such you gonna laught pretty hard