Splitting the upcoming patch

Altheina

While it's good to see a long list of ptr patch notes. The concerns I have are twofold:

1) From my understanding that the patch size is approximately 4gb? If that's the case, it will take a very long time to download considering the slow download speed that many players have even with good internet connection. I personally get an avg of 200-300kb/s with 200Mb fiber optic connection.

2) Get the patch that fixes all manners of bugs(e.q: quest bugs, vampire passive bugs,etc...) possibly out first before content patch such as Craglorn.

What do you guys think?

nerevarine1138

Get a better connection?

But seriously, I don't think you understand how patches work. If they've already created the next patch, they can't just "split" the patch into segments and apply them separately. The code is written so that it all goes in one unit. And since most of that file size is probably Craglorn, I don't think there's any way you're avoiding this download.

Altheina

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Get a better connection?

But seriously, I don't think you understand how patches work. If they've already created the next patch, they can't just "split" the patch into segments and apply them separately. The code is written so that it all goes in one unit. And since most of that file size is probably Craglorn, I don't think there's any way you're avoiding this download.

Thanks Nerevarine for the inisght and well, I have no comment on your 'get better connection' there as I'm pretty sure there are others who will face the same situation(with slow downloading). Nevertheless, I'm posting this to provide suggestion for this coming patch as well as for the upcoming ones.

rawne1980b16_ESO

I have 76mb/s fibre optic.

4 gig will take me about 20 minutes to download so it doesn't bother me much.

Orizuru

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

I have 76mb/s fibre optic.

4 gig will take me about 20 minutes to download so it doesn't bother me much.

You will still be throttled by the download servers and every resource node between your home and the download server.

Unless you have 10 people at your home playing the game at the same time, you will never use more than 10mb/s at most because of the limitations imposed by network infrastructures beyond the control of you, your ISP, and the servers you are connecting to. Even when the infrastructure can support the extra bandwidth, most nodes restrict a single pipe of data to no more than 3mb/s to ensure there is enough bandwidth available for all of the data pipes going through the node.

Sorry if I derailed the topic here. Just thought I throw some knowledge into the bucket.

Eris

The downtime to apply the patch will probably be about 4 hours, so if you start your download around the beginning you should be fine.

Altheina

Just so you guys know that my purpose to create this topic is to also provide suggestion to Zenimax to reconsider separating patches that fix bugs and instability in the existing contents(which I highlighted in point 2 in my original post).

Orizuru

Altheina wrote: »

Just so you guys know that my purpose to create this topic is to also provide suggestion to Zenimax to reconsider separating patches that fix bugs and instability in the existing contents(which I highlighted in point 2 in my original post).

Did you /feedback the suggestion in-game? I would consider that to be more effective if that is your goal. This is the Player helping Players forum and while I'm sure ZOS does read as much here as possible, I'm betting feedback and suggestions are more organized and presented to ZOS more quickly through the /feedback system that is provided in-game.

Altheina

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

Altheina wrote: »

Just so you guys know that my purpose to create this topic is to also provide suggestion to Zenimax to reconsider separating patches that fix bugs and instability in the existing contents(which I highlighted in point 2 in my original post).

Did you /feedback the suggestion in-game? I would consider that to be more effective if that is your goal. This is the Player helping Players forum and while I'm sure ZOS does read as much here as possible, I'm betting feedback and suggestions are more organized and presented to ZOS more quickly through the /feedback system that is provided in-game.

As a matter of fact I did.

Also I believe that with the suggestion I'm proposing will sort of minimize the level of complains received in this forum.

Lazarus_Long

I for one think it is not only possible, but also a good idea to let customers apply the updates in segments. Of course with the megaserver running a different version partially patched customers would not be able to connect.

Think about the technical side: The code is not yet complete or it would not be "PTS only," the files that need patching are large compressed archives so the patching process is basically like adding/replacing a file to a .zip file, and it would help take some of the load off the content servers when the patch is released. Perhaps the hardest part for the devs would be deciding how to split up the packages.

From a customer point of view: a lot these ISP's that refuse to upgrade also enforce stupidly low bandwidth caps on their customers, like in the 5GB a month range. So if you want to patch AND play for a whole month you need extra money or bandwidth to borrow. Splitting up the download would allow a customer to download part of what they need while also ensuring the integrity of the patch process (i.e. not failing because of a partial download or mismatched version).

Just my two cents.

rawne1980b16_ESO

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

I have 76mb/s fibre optic.

4 gig will take me about 20 minutes to download so it doesn't bother me much.

You will still be throttled by the download servers and every resource node between your home and the download server.

Unless you have 10 people at your home playing the game at the same time, you will never use more than 10mb/s at most because of the limitations imposed by network infrastructures beyond the control of you, your ISP, and the servers you are connecting to. Even when the infrastructure can support the extra bandwidth, most nodes restrict a single pipe of data to no more than 3mb/s to ensure there is enough bandwidth available for all of the data pipes going through the node.

Sorry if I derailed the topic here. Just thought I throw some knowledge into the bucket.

Want to know how tech savvy I am?

I didn't understand a single thing you just said after "download servers".

I know it takes me a few minutes to download a movie.

About 25 minutes to install say ... Fallout 3 ... on Steam....

So i'm guessing, by what little my "I remember a time before mobile phones and the internet" mind can comprehend, that downloading a patch will take longer due to .... reason my less than technical mind can wrap around?

Sarenia

I can understand frustration with large patches and slow internet.

Unfortunately, you're in the minority, and ZOS is unlikely to restructure their workflow around your niche. And that's what it would be, a complete alteration in how they work and release updates.

Altheina

Lazarus_Long wrote: »

Perhaps the hardest part for the devs would be deciding how to split up the packages.

Good point there and something to ponder over. I like to think that deploying patches that fix existing contents prior to a new content helps minimize some of the unforeseen circumstances than deploying all in one big patch would have(I'm not saying that this big patch we gonna have will).

Also, with regards to slow download, I'm not asking Zenimax to change the infrastructure, but to see if splitting the patch, be it for the upcoming Craglorn patch or the big patches to come is possible...

k9mouse

Where is the link for the PTS patch notes? Thanks

Selstad

2-300 kb on a 200 mb line? I have a 50 mb fiber line and pulls around 6 mb/s on downloads. Only took around 1 hour to download the entire 22 Gb that this game is composed of.

If you only manages to get around 200-300 kb/s on a 200 mb fiber line, I'd call my ISP.

Altheina

k9mouse wrote: »

Where is the link for the PTS patch notes? Thanks

You can find it here

Lalai

My guess from the programming side of things is that it's too late now to split the patch up into segments. However going forward it may not be a bad idea. The patches would have to be made in segments though. It's not usually a good idea in the programming world to make something and then just split it up after the fact.

Avorniel

4gigs will take me around 4-5 hours at 150kb/s with my whooping 2mb broadband and thats the max I can get due to location being rural and changing isp would have same results and before anyone comes up with the sarcastic get a better connection ..oh wait

would be nice for them to break down patches/updates but I doubt it would ever happen.

fredarbonab14_ESO

Not a bad thought and I hear you on the looong download time. Programmingwise it does appear as a nightmare to split it, unfortunately.

Thesiren

Is there a solid ETA for this patch? They're nerfing blue motif drop rates is why I ask.

Altheina

Thanks guys for the input. Segmenting the patch is a better term to use and hopefully that's something Zenimax would consider, especially when dealing with bug fixes and big content patch.

derpmonster

Where are you guys seeing thees patch notes?

Sarenia

derpmonster wrote: »

Where are you guys seeing thees patch notes?

In the official patch notes sub-forum.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/categories/patch-notes

For upcoming patch notes, and other goodies, you'll want to watch the Developer forum though.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/categories/EN-dev-discussion

Salsadoom

Start the download before going to bed/work.

wrlifeboil

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

I have 76mb/s fibre optic.

4 gig will take me about 20 minutes to download so it doesn't bother me much.

You will still be throttled by the download servers and every resource node between your home and the download server.

Unless you have 10 people at your home playing the game at the same time, you will never use more than 10mb/s at most because of the limitations imposed by network infrastructures beyond the control of you, your ISP, and the servers you are connecting to. Even when the infrastructure can support the extra bandwidth, most nodes restrict a single pipe of data to no more than 3mb/s to ensure there is enough bandwidth available for all of the data pipes going through the node.

Sorry if I derailed the topic here. Just thought I throw some knowledge into the bucket.

ZOS distributes their game files through a cdn so unless you live in a remote corner of the planet your download speeds should be near the max bandwidth of your Internet connection. I have read of people getting 25mb/s speeds on their downloads.

edi:

Xenrae

And I have read, everywhere, of people - like myself - getting unreasonably slow download speeds for ESO. I have 50mbps, and I'm getting sometimes as low as 800kbps. Today, it's around 3m. Honestly, some of you folks need to get over your epic rig, and your epic internet, and your game is perfect and why isn't everybody else's...

How do you come to the conclusion that these people talking about download times haven't already considered they don't have fast internet? They're tech savy enough to get to the forum. I think it's safe to assume they have a brain stem.

demendred

Well, this is going to be hell on my dial up...

Altheina

Xenrae wrote: »

And I have read, everywhere, of people - like myself - getting unreasonably slow download speeds for ESO. I have 50mbps, and I'm getting sometimes as low as 800kbps. Today, it's around 3m. Honestly, some of you folks need to get over your epic rig, and your epic internet, and your game is perfect and why isn't everybody else's...

How do you come to the conclusion that these people talking about download times haven't already considered they don't have fast internet? They're tech savy enough to get to the forum. I think it's safe to assume they have a brain stem.

Agreed. I think people tend to have the 'it's your issue if I don't experience the problem myself' attitude without really looking at the problem in general.

What I'm proposing in this topic is actually an idea that help both parties(the group that have no problem with download speed to ESO patch server and the other group that has slow download speed to ESO patch server) putting an emphasis on bug fixes patches to be delivered before big content patches(e.q. Craglorn).

jircris11

im running a 180MBS conection atm i wanted to see how long it takes me to download a game so i downloaded KTera..it is the Korean version and i got the 54GB download in under an hour. so my hope is i have the same luck with the patch.

Epona222

I have fibre optic connection and unlimited downloads, so although it doesn't affect me, actually I think it's a good idea to split it between "fixes" and "Craglorn". Given that many people have download caps per month, and that Craglorn is veteran only content, let those people download fixes to the existing game as a separate patch, and Craglorn when they get to veteran level and want to access that content.

zaria

Fast question, if you have the launcher running but not the game will it start to update automatically?