EU Bloodthorn

Djursnerb16_ESO

What happened to the Dominion? They have not had their scrolls for days and get beaten back every to zero keeps every day. Covenant overtook no. 1 now as well.

ChampionSheWolf

If it's anything like NA then the Covenant seems to have more disposable resources... aka cannon fodder (bodies) to throw at a wall until it crumbles, which can, eventually, wither the best defenses, sadly. We'd been fighting and beating back both the DC and AD on NA Wabbajack for the past few days straight, while both factions just seemingly kept getting larger.

Phantorang

Where can I see the stats for the different campaigns?

Gaudrath

Well, we in the AD left for home because Altmer ran out of delicious wine to sip during sieges, Khajiit ran out of "sugar" and got the shakes and the Bosmer got sick from all the fat Covenant weekend warriors they had to eat in the past few weeks.

BabylonRocker

The campaign is usually "locked" for all 3 factions in the evening with the important difference that DC can bring far greater numbers during the day, that makes all the difference tbh

Forztr

My home campaign is EU Auriels Bow where DC are firmly entrenched at the bottom of the leaderboard so I decide to guest in others to see what they were like.

What I've noticed with the DC in Bloodthorn that's vastly different to DC in Auriel is that there are a couple of people giving orders on what do in Zone chat and for the most part people are listening and doing it. This makes a big difference, when I first showed up DC were in 2nd place but had a strong map which has stayed strong the last few days and they've now taken the lead and are currently dominating.

I also think that I'm not the only other campaign DC refugee/guest who's showing up since the numbers are pretty solid everyday. Not that DC are the only ones padding numbers with people from other campaigns. I've seen some of Auriels top scoring EP players this week not having quite the same success as they're used to.

So DC in Bloodthorn are playing smart and possibly attracting DC from other campaigns since of the three campaigns I've looked at so far it's the only one where DC look to be competitive.

Gaudrath

Bloodthorn DC are well organized, that's true. It's fairly obvious they have at least a couple of guilds on TS running around, which also makes a big difference.

They also have accursed vampire gods running about. I'm sure our honourable forces have not stooped to such levels of depravity.

ruzlb16_ESO

There's a lack of organised guilds for AD on Bloodthorn, basically. We only have zerg guilds, and when we do have a TS guild active they're not actually planned groups - just pugs with TS. I've regularly joined EDC 'guild' groups only to discover there's 1 level 15 healer and no-one has any siege equipment apart from me... this is barely a step up from just randomly picking anyone in /z.
Seems like the other factions learned that a properly organised guild group of 24 VR10s operating in concert is effective, while we decided that simply all being a member of the same guild makes you automatically organised. We don't plan our groups, and so we suffer.
Take EDC as an example. EDC was probably the first PvP guild on Bloodthorn AD, and it gave us a real advantage very briefly; it was still basically a zerg, but it was a zerg with some direction. EDC has 199 members, and 4 of them are VR10; PvP groups are organized by telling people in /g to type in the same number code into /z as randoms do. This is the the point where EDC essentially failed to transition to a properly organised PvP guild - they have basically recruited the zerg and taught it how to go to castles, but haven't really bothered to produce a professional PvP group at all. They just internalized the zerg. This means they can always produce a full group or two... but also that those groups are inferior in every respect to the properly organised guild groups being deployed by 1-2 guilds EP or DC are currently able to field.
Compare that with any video of Pryda. I fought Pryda at the barn outside Fare once. He had eight people with him, which I know because I was watching his stream as I fought him (dirty, but if you're gonna broadcast exactly what you're doing in real time to the enemy, expect us to watch it). These eight people held off 30+ of us for about an hour due to good use of terrain, excellent co-ordination and buffing, and good placement of AOE. Every member of their group was VR10; every member had a healing staff available and was in constant communication with every other member over TS. THAT is how a coordinated guild operates; they didn't take random members into their group, they were all able to fall into a healing role as required, and they were constantly announcing when rebuffs were needed etc.
Thing is, we'd only really need 1 or 2 of these properly organised guilds to tip the balance back. Both EP and DC have shown in this campaign that 12 people can hold a keep against 60, and what's more, a proper battle between two organised groups like this would be awesome to watch. I've no doubt that, as more of us reach VR, these guilds will begin to emerge and the zerg-based approach will begin to decay away; VR players looking for organised PvP simply aren't going to put up with random group selection and poor raid direction, and will look for leaders who can think tactically AND strategically.
Essentially, (and with no disrespect intended in what is simply my honest critique) EDC and other big zerg guilds grew out of the need for a strategic approach to PvP in the first 2 weeks, but don't have any real tactical layer; this makes them ineffective against the highly tactical groups that now dominate Bloodthorn EU.

Bangstin

Holy bandwagon happened

Khyras

Problem with 1 megaserver is everyone can have characters in all 3 factions on it.
If one faction starts to dominate easiest thing to do is switch characters or make character in that faction and simply join them.This creates snowball effect resulting in total domination of one faction in a particulat pvp campaign,which is what we see happening now.Problem will be even greater if they increase Xp gain in pvp.On the other hand,PvP without Xp rewards (now) also very much sucks.
Its a lose/lose situation for PvP in this game.

Gaudrath

Khyras wrote: »

Problem with 1 megaserver is everyone can have characters in all 3 factions on it.
If one faction starts to dominate easiest thing to do is switch characters or make character in that faction and simply join them.This creates snowball effect resulting in total domination of one faction in a particulat pvp campaign,which is what we see happening now.Problem will be even greater if they increase Xp gain in pvp.On the other hand,PvP without Xp rewards (now) also very much sucks.
Its a lose/lose situation for PvP in this game.

As far as I know, you can't have characters from multiple factions in the same campaign. Am I mistaken?

Khyras

"As far as I know, you can't have characters from multiple factions in the same campaign. Am I mistaken? " Never done it but some people in Cyrodiil chat were talking about it like it can be done. /shrugs*

ruzlb16_ESO

Khyras wrote: »

Problem with 1 megaserver is everyone can have characters in all 3 factions on it.
If one faction starts to dominate easiest thing to do is switch characters or make character in that faction and simply join them.This creates snowball effect resulting in total domination of one faction in a particulat pvp campaign,which is what we see happening now.Problem will be even greater if they increase Xp gain in pvp.On the other hand,PvP without Xp rewards (now) also very much sucks.
Its a lose/lose situation for PvP in this game.

Not really a megaserver problem; could do the same thing on fragmented servers in a lot of games. And in some cases it can be a good thing; I remember in some games whole guilds would swap sides in reverse because it's just as much no fun for the dominating side once the opposition stop logging on.

Gaudrath

Friendly fire would solve so many problems...

Hithlum

This is a very easy question to answer. Vampires happened. Daggerfall are the guys who abuse vamp ulti like crazy, Dominion and Pact doesn't abuse vampire ulti, you can see results of this in scoreboard, DC gained about 28k in a week on both EP and AD.

Has nothing to do with DC having some awesome tactics or anything, they are just wiping zergs with vamp bombs.

Kingslayer

Hithlum wrote: »

This is a very easy question to answer. Vampires happened. Daggerfall are the guys who abuse vamp ulti like crazy, Dominion and Pact doesn't abuse vampire ulti, you can see results of this in scoreboard, DC gained about 28k in a week on both EP and AD.

Has nothing to do with DC having some awesome tactics or anything, they are just wiping zergs with vamp bombs.

Ridiculous There are a lot of Pvp guilds in Daggerfall. All i see is EP using the vamp ult to and AD. Everyone uses it in all factions. Your comment is so ridiculous its almost tragic.

Hithlum

On Bloodthorn? Really? I guess those those elusive AD vamp ult abusers play at different hours than me. Daggerfall PvP guilds aren't the problem for AD(although yes we don't have many of our own PvP guilds it seems), the problem is vamp ulti abuse, and nothing else.

Besides, most of the time those great PvP guilds of yours seem to be more preoccupied with farming Alliance points than actually doing anything useful.

Forztr

Well today should be interesting, an EP very early morning raid (complete with vamp ult spammer) turned the map red and got all the scrolls. Personally I think the game is broken if 10-12 people can do what they did but it is what it is.

sgtalexinsidpreeb18_ESO

most of us are still lvling vr10 so....

Gaudrath

Forztr wrote: »

Well today should be interesting, an EP very early morning raid (complete with vamp ult spammer) turned the map red and got all the scrolls. Personally I think the game is broken if 10-12 people can do what they did but it is what it is.

You can't make a game that can compensate for the unfairness of human players. Every game has rules, but it is the players who are supposed to enforce those rules and make the game fair and fun to play for everyone. Computer games are no different - the only difference is the higher percentage of players who just don't get what the game is all about.

ruzlb16_ESO

Hithlum wrote: »

On Bloodthorn? Really? I guess those those elusive AD vamp ult abusers play at different hours than me. Daggerfall PvP guilds aren't the problem for AD(although yes we don't have many of our own PvP guilds it seems), the problem is vamp ulti abuse, and nothing else.

We have batswarm vamps in ulti cost reduction gear in AD too, and there's some in EP. No where near as many as DC do, but they are there; there's 2 in just one of my guilds alone. The big difference is, DC actually try to counter them, while we in AD just scream and rage about how they should be nerfed instead.

Besides, most of the time those great PvP guilds of yours seem to be more preoccupied with farming Alliance points than actually doing anything useful.

Except when they're taking all the resources to shut down our transport network, or leading the entire DC zerg into our territory on a scroll attack... while we spend most of our time endlessly wiping over the worthless bridge next to Alessia, which if we ever take we never bother to fortify and defend. Seriously, you're not seeing anything wrong with the tactical situation in EU Bloodthorn AD atm? When Fare is under attack by blue and half our population are either attacking Red at Blue Road, or fighting over that bridge? You're pinning all our woes on a build that is open to EVERY SIDE to use?

Last night, I was at a Bloodmayne defense to keep our scroll gate shut, at which we managed a massive 4 siege engines (half of which were trebs) on the outer wall and 20 defenders, against roughly 100 blues using multiple trebs and rams. I'm convinced half our side don't even know where to buy siege from, or are more interested in saving up AP for the shiny epixx. When the fort fell, we went to the gate, where there was no attempt to keep the bottleneck saturated with AOE, and barely any oil or siege deployed - and the DC were smart enough to have people waiting at the door to immediately rush in when Blood fell. This is sound tactics on their part and utterly laughable defence on ours. There were precisely 2 people AOEing, me and a guild mate, and when we were oom that was it, no barrier to the zerg. No roots were being placed, no healing being delivered to the AOEers... we essentially did the exact opposite of what the DC do when defending a bottleneck.

Face facts. We have zero organization, and as a result we're getting (quite rightly) pasted by a group that concentrates its forces properly and uses the right tools to deal with each situation. It's not 'honourable' to refuse to use zerg-killer builds against a zerg, it's idiotic. Everyone on our side essentially treats PvP as a large number of 1v1 engagements and is specced appropriately, so there's no real synergy in our groups, just lots of individual players stacking up and hoping that random DPS will beat focused fire. It doesn't and it never will.

FPS-Art1st

You guys should come over to Crysamere. We've only lost the lead a few hours ago. We've been playing there with mostly organised guilds. The problem that caused us to loose our lead tho is that we're vastly outnumbered against enemy zergs. Whilst we beat them in our battles, we are too few players to be at every keep at the same time. We'd love more guilds and even pugs to join our campaign, we got a serious good shot at winning it. The more AD players join us, the easier it will be.

dumbo

ruzlb16_ESO wrote: »

while we spend most of our time endlessly wiping over the worthless bridge next to Alessia, which if we ever take we never bother to fortify and defend.

I can remember playing AD in beta, and the exact same thing was happening. I would log in - and the biggest battle would be on that bridge (or the land surrounding it).

Can anyone explain why the fighting is always there? (I'm having flashbacks of 'the crown' in PS2).

Szx

Better kick winning team joiner Auriels Bow DC guys ..
we dont needed them before and now all the *oldscool* bloothorn DC players bored about the 24/7 map control

Gaudrath

Looks to me like people just gave up... can't say I'm really surprised, I am staying out of it myself until they fix the current bugs with vamps, ultimate cost reduction and whatnot.

@dumbo‌ - yes, Crown. Precisely the same reason. Some people *love* tug of war fights.

sgtalexinsidpreeb18_ESO

tried to organise some resistance with randoms with limited success but in the end we are just outnumbered so badly that it gets ridiculous... will be getting pasted by blue and red zergs today too.. all day

mg_78b16_ESO

Please do not loose your Motivation. Its hard time, but we will loose even more PVP-Players if we sit arround and just complain. Fight and for groups give our players something to do. Loosing is part of the game. Bugusing too. OP_players are aswell. Things will be fixed somehow, sometime. And we must still be there when the time comes. While we were Dominating it was easy. Now that we are loosing the people go away. I know... evil Vampires...OP-Emperors... bad cheaters... all the bad things... Dont care .... keep on playing... BE a good community. Then soon we will dominate again.

Djursnerb16_ESO

The Ruby Throne belongs to the Covenant.

Strontium-Dog

For first few weeks the game automatically dumped newly made characters into the same campaign that any existing characters were in , regardless of side. That didnt help.