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Public dungeons are one of the worse ideas...

CapuchinSeven
CapuchinSeven
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...I've seen in a game with this sort of immersion.

"Enter this long closed dusty, empty crypt, oh apart from those other 7 guys camping a boss that you won't get a hit on, don't bother sneaking someone will sprint past you and agro pull all the mobs for an AOE grind anyway".

But this goes past the boss camping complaints, things like "you must enter my dreams, only you can save me! Oh and those other 7 guys you'll see bunny hopping and AOEing all the mobs in two hits". How does that make any sense at all to the story? 7 other guys in the same dream.

I was just at a quest giver telling me I had to go kill her long dead master who had been turned into a vampire, I got a single hit in on the boss.

It's totally ruining any challenge to fighting a boss, totally ruining immersion.

Just my view.
  • Utildai
    Utildai
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    I think there is a good mix of both the public and instanced dungeons. They would have to rebuild the entire game engine to remove them... So, probably isn't going to happen. Just my ***... EDIT.. apparently the abbreviation for humble opinion is a swear word... :)
    Edited by Utildai on April 22, 2014 5:23PM
  • Sakiri
    Sakiri
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    I think they need to be larger and not suck so much butt for xp. And get rid of the bots.

    I want something to do with my friend that doesnt require pugs(group dungeons) or exact duplicate quest decisions because of crappy phasing.
  • Hexo
    Hexo
    Public dungeons bad, instanced dungeons good, it's that simple for me.
  • Mailmann
    Mailmann
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    I would like to see all dungeons instanced and the difficulty scale to the size of the group.
  • Sakiri
    Sakiri
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    All of you public dungeon haters must have hated every non wow mmo up til about 2006 eh?
  • Hexo
    Hexo
    Sakiri wrote: »
    All of you public dungeon haters must have hated every non wow mmo up til about 2006 eh?

    I wouldn't be such a public dungeon hater it they had designed the system differently. But arriving at the end of my quest-line to kill a boss, only to find 20 corpses of him lying about, and several players just standing there waiting for him to respawn, is just ruining the quest. Also, trying to fix it by reducing the loot from the boss to 2 gold pieces is not fixing it, it's ruining the game.

    Make it instanced, that'd be fixing it.
  • Sakiri
    Sakiri
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    Hexo wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    All of you public dungeon haters must have hated every non wow mmo up til about 2006 eh?

    I wouldn't be such a public dungeon hater it they had designed the system differently. But arriving at the end of my quest-line to kill a boss, only to find 20 corpses of him lying about, and several players just standing there waiting for him to respawn, is just ruining the quest. Also, trying to fix it by reducing the loot from the boss to 2 gold pieces is not fixing it, it's ruining the game.

    Make it instanced, that'd be fixing it.

    Very few of those delves have quest lines to kill the boss in them. Most of them have random miscellaneous objectives like finding an artifact to take to some dude standing around somewhere(Knife Ear in Deshaan) for example.

    Then again, in my day, contested dungeons were that... dungeons. And the bosses had 15+ minute respawn timers. And you didn't just sit there waiting for it to respawn.

    And before that, you sat in one single room killing everything that spawned, waited for the room to respawn and killed that. For hours. For a bubble of XP.

    WoW's instancing, they had to limit you to 5 instances in an hour(which has forked over a number of my raiders over the years because they'd hit the instance cap RIGHT before raid time) to combat hackers, and they won't lift it because the instances don't reset immediately, they stay open on the hardware for a while eating resources. Solo instances are even worse for eating resources.

    You want to do instanced content, there's instanced content. Go do that. Hope you have three friends to go with you though.
  • Mailmann
    Mailmann
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    All of you public dungeon haters must have hated every non wow mmo up til about 2006 eh?
    My distaste for public dungeons in ESO really has nothing to do with the public dungeon experience. It is mostly to do with the current problems with the public dungeon system in ESO and the lack of a more nostalgic dungeon experience that one would normally associate with an Elder Scrolls game.

  • Audigy
    Audigy
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    All of you public dungeon haters must have hated every non wow mmo up til about 2006 eh?

    Well said.

    MMO´s were never about "go find 4, 9, 19,39 others, meet in TS, then check your addons and you can go". This is what WOW and its clones want to make people believe, but the truth is this is not what MMO´s are about.

    MMO´s are about huge worlds, where everyone has access to and then you group on the fly, not by hammering invite button, but by playing together.

    I am happy that TESO is actually supporting the original MMO idea and I wish they would enlarge that idea so that Adventure Zones work like that as well.
  • Hexo
    Hexo
    "Go do that?" Seriously? I don't need a wall of text ending in a "if you don't like it go do something else".
    The forums are for discussing the game, that's what we're doing, and for me OP is right.
    It's totally ruining any challenge to fighting a boss, totally ruining immersion.
    Agreed.
  • Sakiri
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    See, @Audigy‌ , I like the ts thing. Im just tired of being required to have full groups to do anything worth a crap. Why cant we have dungeons full of stronger mobs and world boss difficulty monsters that can be done with 2 or 3? Why do the pds have huge packs to aoe down instead of something that takes more than 5 seconds to kill?

    I dont want to do instanced content, as my friend and I really hate pugs, but our other alternative is crappy lolaoe wow style "round em up and light it up" delves and pds full of bots.

    Even Craglorn is going to be out of reach.

    Slightly off topic of course, but I *like* contested dungeons. Add more! Larger, more bosses! STRONGER MONSTERS IN SMALLER GROUPS. Id rather see a pair or trio of "strong solo quest boss" strngth monsters than say, the packs of dix or seven trash mobs you find every two feet in places like Sanguine's Demense in Shadowfen.

    Might kill bots too if the mobs are stronger and have abilities. Scaling hp dependent on number of combatants too.

    /thought for the day
  • Hexo
    Hexo
    I get what you're saying, and I believe the optimal solution is to have both instanced and public dungeons, heck yes even contested dungeons would be a cool addition - but they should have designed the public dungeons differently. They do get better later in the game, but still to many of my public dungeon runs end like this:

    The boss dies in a splitsecond because he is weak compared to the number of players camping him - I'm lucky if I even get to finish my Crystal Shard and hit him, before he's dead again.

    The loot is like 1-2 gold...

    Sometimes I can't even see the boss spawning because there are so many corpses.

    The questline builds up in a "you alone have to do this", "this dungeon is ancient and not many know its location" - these "single-player" type quests don't work well with the current public dungeon system.
  • CapuchinSeven
    CapuchinSeven
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    All of you public dungeon haters must have hated every non wow mmo up til about 2006 eh?
    Audigy wrote: »
    Well said.

    Yes of course, in simple land with the simple things everything is black and white. Look if you want to drag it down to that, fine, I've been playing MMOs and computer games in general for as long, if not longer than both of you. We got that out of our systems? Good.

    Not enjoying badly implemented public dungeons does not mean an instant hate for public dungeons.

    The idea is great, the implementation is awful and expressing things like that is half the reason these forums are here.

    This game drags you deep down into immersion and then BANG is smacks you right back out again and because you're so deep in you notice it more than you would in another game.

    Things like dreams should not be public areas, that's the whole damn point of them. Public dungeons themselves could use some changes, harder bosses, less people allowed in to a single instance, and so on.
    Hexo wrote: »
    The questline builds up in a "you alone have to do this", "this dungeon is ancient and not many know its location" - these "single-player" type quests don't work well with the current public dungeon system.

    Yeah, you get it, well said.
    Edited by CapuchinSeven on April 23, 2014 2:33PM
  • Saltypretzels
    Saltypretzels
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    The dungeons are not the worst ideas in the game, to disagree with the OP. But they are horribly executed, boringly designed, and allow too many people in them per instance.

    Is every single one of these dungeons a circle ending in a boss that dies in seconds and then you take a door to run back outside? Hmmm... yes, I believe so.
    There is no variety or challenge.

    The outdoor areas and quests really feel like elder scrolls to me. These dungeons feel nothing like the epic dungeons you find in ESO. They aren't even as good as dungeons in Daggerfall, circa 1997.
  • Sihnfahl
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    They aren't even as good as dungeons in Daggerfall, circa 1997.
    They do have something up on Daggerfall dungeons, though!

    Non-randomly placed quest pickups that don't glitch into an unreachable location...

  • beefers96
    beefers96
    Public dungeons might not be a terrible idea, but I'm not a fan of public instanced quests. Folks have mentioned it previously, but after a long build up to enter a long forgotten tomb or dream sequence it's massively jarring to suddenly find a dozen other players ganking the content. It's even worse if you're trying to play some sort of stealth character; just hop on the zerg train and roll.

    This will need to be looked at before things like the Thieves' Guild or Dark Brotherhood can be realized. Otherwise it's going to be more like a street gang than an assassin.
  • samooryesordb14_ESO
    They are a great idea actually, they just need a lot of tweaking. First, they need to make the boss at the end of them much more difficult. Second, they need to only let you loot that boss once, after the first kill you should only get 2 gold or whatever. Third, they need to limit the amount of players per instance of said public dungeons to about 10 or 15. I was in some the other day and there were about 20 players in it... half of them were bots. There were no mobs to kill, no challenge what so ever. I ran through an empty dungeon just to tag the boss at the end and collect my skyshard and leave.

    They are completely useless in the current state of things. They need to be A LOT more challenging and rewarding, both with loot and enjoyment.
  • Baraz
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    For quests, yes the public cluster breaks the adventure. I once accidentally finished a quest because I was close to a player that just killed an "end-mob".

    For dungeons as such, I am use to open-world PvP (from an obscure Greek game: I don't name other games on game forums), where cooperation is rare and edgy... The thing is with hardcore PvP dungeons, bots are killed with glee!

    Anyhow, co-op dungeons and all is fine, but most quests should be solo instances.
    Edited by Baraz on April 23, 2014 5:45PM
  • CapuchinSeven
    CapuchinSeven
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    The dungeons are not the worst ideas in the game, to disagree with the OP. But they are horribly executed, boringly designed, and allow too many people in them per instance.

    Yes you're right, my phrasing was bad, public dungeons are a great idea, badly done.
  • xramirez535b14_ESO
    I for one love getting only one-hit on the boss and feeling like I accomplished something. Don't you?

    In all seriousness though there should be some sort of overflow system for public dungeons that prioritizes people in groups and only allows certain amounts of players into it. In other words, make it publicly instanced.
    Edited by xramirez535b14_ESO on April 24, 2014 8:06PM
  • Lonestryder
    Lonestryder
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    Mailmann wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    All of you public dungeon haters must have hated every non wow mmo up til about 2006 eh?
    My distaste for public dungeons in ESO really has nothing to do with the public dungeon experience. It is mostly to do with the current problems with the public dungeon system in ESO and the lack of a more nostalgic dungeon experience that one would normally associate with an Elder Scrolls game.

    I agree with this and similar sentiments. My go-forward plan is to stay away from dungeons for a bit and let the dust settle before going through them in earnest. I want to experience the game the designers had in mind.

    In the current situation (bots, etc.), I have maybe gotten a single piece of blue gear (and I may be misremembering that one from beta) and not a single piece of gear from any dungeon bosses - not one and all due to this current dungeon debacle.

    I'm a die-hard fan, so my tolerance for this garbage is rather high (though admittedly waning of late). Not everyone has that much patience, however.
  • MkChkn
    MkChkn
    I prefer the public dungeons. I've enjoyed randomly finding other players to mop up bad guys with. For me I'm completely burnt out on instanced dungeons so I simply don't play them.
  • mlstevens42_ESO
    mlstevens42_ESO
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    It is over all the fact that there are just to many people in a single phase of the game currently. This affects all facets of the game not just dungeons.

    Dungeons just make the matter more obvious. Fact is save the ones with groups of six or so mobs every group they are easy to solo. Having more then five people in them just makes it a joke. For that matter more then five in the ones with the five six mobs per group end up being a joke with so many people in them.

    It is no wonder there are so many shocked when they end up in solo content. Most of them have not had to kill anything alone. Just tag whatever collect exp and roll with the zerg. No thinking no learning how to play no strats at all. Just mash one button and win.
  • SteveCampsOut
    SteveCampsOut
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    Scaling hp dependent on number of combatants too.

    /thought for the day

    THIS Right Here! The maybe the bosses would last long enough for everyone to get in a hit on them!

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  • SteveCampsOut
    SteveCampsOut
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    I for one love getting only one-hit on the boss and feeling like I accomplished something. Don't you?

    In all seriousness though there should be some sort of overflow system for public dungeons that prioritizes people in groups and only allows certain amounts of players into it. In other words, make it publicly instanced.

    Here's what's wrong with this picture. You have an entire dungeon full of mobs that only allows 20 players in at a time. As each player fills their lil' ol' backpacks full of candy and leave, the dungeon becomes less and less populated, but still spawns enough mobs for 20 players til the last one standing is a BOT who loots all the mobs, mails said loot to a separate account to be cashed in and then farms them all over and over and over again until the server is choked with 20 player instances occupied by single BOT players until the server crashes!

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  • a11051605
    a11051605
    Srsly? After reading this all I have to say is qq. Public dungeons are just that a dungeon open to the public were every one can loot and grind in an increased difficulty setting thats it. Dont like it? Dont grind in one. Go in get your skill point n GTFO and as far as bots/people camping the boss I could care less. I just want to go in and get out and get my skill point. If I want some epic boss fight battle I will go do a private dungeon with my guildies. Pff you people are what is wrong with the world today. "I dont like it so ima qq tell you change it or spoon feed me".
  • Eris
    Eris
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    ...I've seen in a game with this sort of immersion.

    "Enter this long closed dusty, empty crypt, oh apart from those other 7 guys camping a boss that you won't get a hit on, don't bother sneaking someone will sprint past you and agro pull all the mobs for an AOE grind anyway".

    But this goes past the boss camping complaints, things like "you must enter my dreams, only you can save me! Oh and those other 7 guys you'll see bunny hopping and AOEing all the mobs in two hits". How does that make any sense at all to the story? 7 other guys in the same dream.

    I was just at a quest giver telling me I had to go kill her long dead master who had been turned into a vampire, I got a single hit in on the boss.

    It's totally ruining any challenge to fighting a boss, totally ruining immersion.

    Just my view.

    You know, I remember when DDO came out and everything was a bunch of instanced dungeons. People were so mad because their was no interaction between players and people complained because they felt that they were playing an MMO alone.

    Now people are complaining because almost everything is public and that they are playing with an MMO with other people.
    Edited by Eris on April 25, 2014 1:50PM
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  • Eris
    Eris
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    Oh, and one more thing about multiple people in the same dream, have you not seen the Nightmare on Elm Street series? When dealing with dreams, specifically entering a shared nightmare, why couldn't there be more than one person in the same dream.
    Side effects of reading messages on forums can cause nausea, head aches, spontaneous fits of rage, urination due to intense laughter, and sometimes the death of your monitor or other object in throwing range. If you find that you are reading forums more than 24 hours a day, please consult your nearest temporal physicist.
  • BrassRazoo
    BrassRazoo
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    I have a love hate relationship with this format.
    Sometimes when it's simple I hate it as it does ruin immersion.
    Sometimes I NEED it, as the mobs are hard.
    I also sort of love the dynamic co-operation that can form when you realise you actually need that guy you just ran past.
    There are no words but you just sort of keep an eye on each other.
    Edited by BrassRazoo on April 25, 2014 1:55PM
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