I wish ESO players would realize THIS ISN'T WoW!!!

brandon.coker101_ESO

Maybe I'm off here, I don't know, but it has seemed to me that a lot of players are expecting WoW gameplay in Dungeons.

We don't need another WoW so try to learn this game and stop comparing.

Yesterday I was tanking in a dungeon and I get a comment from a group member "hmmm I got some aggro there".....then another reply from another group member "are you trying to tank in medium and light armor lol".....

I'm a sword and board sorcerer and I use armor buffs, taunts and as much AOE as I can but this game's tanking is not so much like WoW.

I will typically aeo what I can but it does not hold aggro like WoW so I will use taunts to pull mobs off of people as much as possible.

Anyway, as much as I do like WoW, I wish people would stop expecting WoW gameplay in every mmo....especially this one.

If I'm wrong here, feel free to correct me. Maybe I'm missing something....

Tannakaobi

It's kind of funny really. WoW was once the best mmo by far. Then they listened to the whingers and now it is a rubbish and people can't wait to find something new.

However, when they do find something new, (when I say new I mean: not a wow cloan) they immediately go about making threads complaining about it not being like WoW and want changes to make it more like WoW which was in fact the reason why they don't like WoW.

The mind boggles.

But my advice to any developers is this, completely ignore anything that mentions WoW.

Edit: and don't get me wrong, I loved wow at one point, I had to watch as people cried about things on the forum and the game was simplified and simplified until you were left with what it is today.

brandon.coker101_ESO

kylemelhuishb16_ESO wrote: »

However, when they do find something new, (when I say new I mean: not a wow cloan) they immediately go about making threads complaining about it not being like WoW and want changes to make it more like WoW which was in fact the reason why they don't like WoW.

The mind boggles.

But my advice to any developers is this, completely ignore anything that mentions WoW.

Edit: and don't get me wrong, I loved wow at one point, I had to watch as people cried about things on the forum and the game was simplified and simplified until you were left with what it is today.

I'm not sure if you misunderstood my post or not or if I'm maybe reading yours wrong but I'm not complaining or whining about the tanking in this game.

I like it just the way it is, I just get frustrated with players that expect WoW gameplay in ESO.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

I agree stop trying to turn this into WoW

martinhpb16_ESO

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

I agree stop trying to turn this into WoW

in what way ?

Tannakaobi

brandon.coker101_ESO wrote: »

kylemelhuishb16_ESO wrote: »

However, when they do find something new, (when I say new I mean: not a wow cloan) they immediately go about making threads complaining about it not being like WoW and want changes to make it more like WoW which was in fact the reason why they don't like WoW.

The mind boggles.

But my advice to any developers is this, completely ignore anything that mentions WoW.

Edit: and don't get me wrong, I loved wow at one point, I had to watch as people cried about things on the forum and the game was simplified and simplified until you were left with what it is today.

I'm not sure if you misunderstood my post or not or if I'm maybe reading yours wrong but I'm not complaining or whining about the tanking in this game.

I like it just the way it is, I just get frustrated with players that expect WoW gameplay in ESO.

I've got to be honest, I didn't read your post, I read the title and ranted, so what I said had nothing to do with an opinion based on what you had put.

I agree with you, having now read what you put

My rant is still valid though!

Ragnar_Lodbrok

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

I agree stop trying to turn this into WoW

in what way ?

People crying about: Difficulty, no auction house, or no nameplates to name a few.

Thechemicals

brandon.coker101_ESO wrote: »

Maybe I'm off here, I don't know, but it has seemed to me that a lot of players are expecting WoW gameplay in Dungeons.

We don't need another WoW so try to learn this game and stop comparing.

Yesterday I was tanking in a dungeon and I get a comment from a group member "hmmm I got some aggro there".....then another reply from another group member "are you trying to tank in medium and light armor lol".....

I'm a sword and board sorcerer and I use armor buffs, taunts and as much AOE as I can but this game's tanking is not so much like WoW.

I will typically aeo what I can but it does not hold aggro like WoW so I will use taunts to pull mobs off of people as much as possible.

Anyway, as much as I do like WoW, I wish people would stop expecting WoW gameplay in every mmo....especially this one.

If I'm wrong here, feel free to correct me. Maybe I'm missing something....

Tanking in medium and light armor is difficult but with enough skill points and potions, it can be managed. I tanked spindleclutch last night in medium armor and as a healer as well. We managed to finish the dungeon but it was not ideal. Better would have been heavy armor....

Tannakaobi

Thechemicals wrote: »

brandon.coker101_ESO wrote: »

Maybe I'm off here, I don't know, but it has seemed to me that a lot of players are expecting WoW gameplay in Dungeons.

We don't need another WoW so try to learn this game and stop comparing.

Yesterday I was tanking in a dungeon and I get a comment from a group member "hmmm I got some aggro there".....then another reply from another group member "are you trying to tank in medium and light armor lol".....

I'm a sword and board sorcerer and I use armor buffs, taunts and as much AOE as I can but this game's tanking is not so much like WoW.

I will typically aeo what I can but it does not hold aggro like WoW so I will use taunts to pull mobs off of people as much as possible.

Anyway, as much as I do like WoW, I wish people would stop expecting WoW gameplay in every mmo....especially this one.

If I'm wrong here, feel free to correct me. Maybe I'm missing something....

Tanking in medium and light armor is difficult but with enough skill points and potions, it can be managed. I tanked spindleclutch last night in medium armor and as a healer as well. We managed to finish the dungeon but it was not ideal. Better would have been heavy armor....

Well a DK does not need heavy armor as it has a spell that hits the armor soft cap even if you are naked... A good tanks job is to pull threat and not die. If the tank does that who can complain?

Valco

brandon.coker101_ESO wrote: »

Maybe I'm off here, I don't know, but it has seemed to me that a lot of players are expecting WoW gameplay in Dungeons.

We don't need another WoW so try to learn this game and stop comparing.

Yesterday I was tanking in a dungeon and I get a comment from a group member "hmmm I got some aggro there".....then another reply from another group member "are you trying to tank in medium and light armor lol".....

I'm a sword and board sorcerer and I use armor buffs, taunts and as much AOE as I can but this game's tanking is not so much like WoW.

I will typically aeo what I can but it does not hold aggro like WoW so I will use taunts to pull mobs off of people as much as possible.

Anyway, as much as I do like WoW, I wish people would stop expecting WoW gameplay in every mmo....especially this one.

If I'm wrong here, feel free to correct me. Maybe I'm missing something....

I agree with you! I think ESO is great it's for the people trying out the MMO scene for the first time getting their feet wet and is made for the veteran gamers that are fed up with the WOW type of scene. Far as I'm concerned ESO is a game that fit's in the middle of an MMO and single player game. And if i'm correct it's the direction they wanted to go to begin with.

brandon.coker101_ESO

Valco wrote: »

I agree with you! I think ESO is great it's for the people trying out the MMO scene for the first time getting their feet wet and is made for the veteran gamers that are fed up with the WOW type of scene. Far as I'm concerned ESO is a game that fit's in the middle of an MMO and single player game. And if i'm correct it's the direction they wanted to go to begin with.

I agree 100%.

NordJitsu

Anyone who tries to Tank in this game like they tanked in WoW is going to cause the group to wipe. I can't even do PUGs because there's so much ignorance of this game's threat mechanics out there. A light/medium tank build is totally viable depending on your skills.

Also this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvK8fua6O64&list=UUI3GAJaOTL1BoipG41OmfyA

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

I dont want the game to be wow, but it could use an aoe taunt if agro cant be held by just using aoe attacks. I dont tank, but I was doing a veteran dungeon and as soon as the tank pulled me and the healer got 2 shotted by archers. I dont think its the tanks fault and I cant really say its me and the healers fault we just got unlucky those archers shot us and not the tank. Now if the tank had some way of doing an aoe taunt stupid things like this would be the tanks fault. Poor squishies in the back with robes on could cast/shoot in peace and not worry about random double/triple archer agro insta deaths.

NordJitsu

CC is this game's taunt. Its how you hold enemies.

Try using Encase or Dark Talons to tank.

Tannakaobi

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

I dont want the game to be wow, but it could use an aoe taunt if agro cant be held by just using aoe attacks. I dont tank, but I was doing a veteran dungeon and as soon as the tank pulled me and the healer got 2 shotted by archers. I dont think its the tanks fault and I cant really say its me and the healers fault we just got unlucky those archers shot us and not the tank. Now if the tank had some way of doing an aoe taunt stupid things like this would be the tanks fault. Poor squishies in the back with robes on could cast/shoot in peace and not worry about random double/triple archer agro insta deaths.

Personally I disagree. The idea that one player can just shout and all the enemy thinks, damb. We should be attacking that guy while we all get killed by these. It is ridiculous.

Tanking should be about crowd control. Like creating a shield wall to stop the enemy getting through (Could be a nice synergy skill with two shields). A combined effort of the skills each player has. It's the single biggest reason I'm a PVP'er more than a PVE player.

What? because it's AI the encounters should be stupid. I much rather the enemy be clever rather than just having loads and loads of health to work away at. This whole tank business is just, well.. crap.

What I'm saying is that having one player that can pull all threat is silly. The world just does not work like that.

Avidus

I think encounters should be significantly less trinity based.
I have gone into dungeons without a tank.
And we have succeeded, not because it was easy, but because we used a proper strategy.
When we established what the boss does we established a way in which we could defeat it using what we had in our group.
Instead of a strategy that all groups should apply such as;
Tank it against a wall
DPS
when boss uses move A, DPS move to location A
DPS again
rinse and repeat.

I like the idea of forming a strategy and saying, ok, we do not have a tank, the boss has this AoE move, so equip some ranged skills, slow the DPS in order to reduce the damage taken to our whole group.

Audigy

There was a time at wow when that whole min / maxing, perfect DPS, cookie cutter building didn't exist.

I remember tanking with my Warlock at MC and BWL or AQ. I also had a support role where I had to monitor buffs and debuffs and manage CC. At TBC I played a pally and was responsible for our whole healing team and at WOTLK I played a hybrid healer / off tank.

Playing a Warlock today all I would have to do is deal damage and if I support or tank, I would be kicked due low dps or "you are no tank". If I would play a hybrid healer tank, I would be insulted for not having this or that talent...


The way how people play MMO´s has shifted from a fun experience to a "perfect play" one. Hardly anyone plays a class or build because its fun, but because some super guru on twitch or YT told them to and it delivers the most damage, hps or whatever.


That's why I like TESO so much, or lets say why I hoped to like it. I felt that those wow gurus wont have any place inside TESO, but watching the forums I am a bit worried. People still have that world of warcraft philosophy in their heads where only the max potential of a build is important and not if its fun. Personally I do hope that those people wont be able to ruin the game, they did so with every other MMO that came out in the past years, don't let it happen at Teso please.

Nox_Aeterna

This is not WoW , that is a fair thing to say, the way you tank in this game , is not how you tank in WoW , also quite true.

But makes no sense to tell people to stop comparing both.

knaveofengland

the game as I see it is ok it is new far to many wingers mind you I had my fair share of this and that, but they should have forums like war thunder be pro active and it would stop a lot of this rant and rave

Khuul99

It all comes down to experience (and i mean playing the game) in a group context.

Most people will not have played much in a group so they do not know what to expect. Hence it will always be some ignorace there.

The single reason for this is that the dungeons (4 mans) that do exist in the game is run one time and then forgotten. The incentive to actually play in a group in the 4-mans are nil, the incentive is rather go grind in open world or quest.

The end result is that alot of people comes into dungeons with no knowledge at all about how it works. The quest content is so easy it doesn't matter what you do, you will win anyway (a few exceptions mainly on the guild quests which is nice imo).

p.hurst1b16_ESO

There is always a "wowify this game" contingent even if they do not see themselves as such.

In Rift it was a moot point because Rift is simply a WoW clone with.. well Rifts and large scale zone events. In many ways it tried to be more WOW than WoW.

In others, the game just gets more and more like Blizzard's classic and suffers for it.


This game, ESO, is what WoW was back at the beginning. It is a refresh the genre badly needs. A change of emphasis. It will not cave in to the old 3rd gen min/max wannabe's and the arena rats. This game is its own thing.

Uglify it with amateur code addons as much as you like as you replicate the worst aspects of 3rd Gen MMO culture. I don't mind. I won't snigger when your addons mess your game up a bit, honest.

gabesdad10ub17_ESO

Thechemicals wrote: »

brandon.coker101_ESO wrote: »

Maybe I'm off here, I don't know, but it has seemed to me that a lot of players are expecting WoW gameplay in Dungeons.

We don't need another WoW so try to learn this game and stop comparing.

Yesterday I was tanking in a dungeon and I get a comment from a group member "hmmm I got some aggro there".....then another reply from another group member "are you trying to tank in medium and light armor lol".....

I'm a sword and board sorcerer and I use armor buffs, taunts and as much AOE as I can but this game's tanking is not so much like WoW.

I will typically aeo what I can but it does not hold aggro like WoW so I will use taunts to pull mobs off of people as much as possible.

Anyway, as much as I do like WoW, I wish people would stop expecting WoW gameplay in every mmo....especially this one.

If I'm wrong here, feel free to correct me. Maybe I'm missing something....

Tanking in medium and light armor is difficult but with enough skill points and potions, it can be managed. I tanked spindleclutch last night in medium armor and as a healer as well. We managed to finish the dungeon but it was not ideal. Better would have been heavy armor....

I haven't actually tried tanking a dungeon, yet. However, I see 2 major spells that would help a Sorceror in light armor tank a dungeon. One is Bound armor. This spell permanently increases armor by 200-300 at the cost of 10% magicka. The other is lightning form. When I activate both of these, my armor is at the cap. I imagine that if I kept these up my incoming damage would be mitigated well enough to be healed without too much trouble. The rest will be figuring out how to hold agro. There are a few options for this, one of them being "Inner fire" under undaunted, I believe, which forces mobs to attack you. I will be playing with all of this shortly and send an update on my experience.

brandon

I'm tired of people in chat saying we need tank or healer or dps people need to understand eso isn't your typical mmo you can be anything me and a friend went into a group dungeon and beat it together just 2 people

AlexDougherty

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

I agree stop trying to turn this into WoW

You heard that a lot in SWTOR too, people get bored of WOW but still try to get other games to play the same (possible definition of madness there).
Mind you in SWTOR there were people trying to turn it into SWG too (despite it being impossible)

Etchesketch

Wait... it's not wow?

Moonchilde

I think the reason people who want these hard, rigid class builds is so that they can form regimental raid teams and crunch numbers. Hardcore raid teams are like a machine, and leaders want to be able to leverage their skills from old games that allowed this. In a machine like that, there is absolutely ZERO room for a concept character, a hybrid, or any deviation from the military build they expect to meet their expected numbers.

Elder Scrolls has always been about character customization and freedom from traditional class boundaries. If they bend to this industry of "professional gamers" they would be running contrary to the entire concept they have been presenting us for the past 20 years.

I often wonder what the difference is between these cookie-cutter-class hardcore achiever teams, and a group of farming bots. They are both min-maxing to milk the game of every possible gain it its capable of dropping. I have seen no example of this behavior in any fantasy genre outside of online gaming, and it certainly has no basis in roleplay (this is an mmorpg right?). Hardcore raid groups run like a business, not like players engaging in a leisure activity. They will fire you if your numbers aren't up to par.

Asava

Well I wish people would realize that ESO is an online MMO and not a single player story mode game.

Keiffo

I agree with you OP, anybody in the group can use defensive utility / AoE / whatever they want. The tank role in this game is great in the way you shouldn't actually be a straight up tank at all, as that would hurt your group. People just don't realize this and expect the tank to be an unkillable wall that taunts everything.

Hadria

Asava wrote: »

Well I wish people would realize that ESO is an online MMO and not a single player story mode game.

Except this isn't your typical mmo this is ESO mmo and this is the way they've decided to do it. There are more than enough games with what everyone is asking for it there, they should just go to them.

To me they've blended ESO and mmo together nicely to where it doesn't feel like an mmo and that's where all this crying is coming from. Think of it as when warcraft became world of warcraft, elder scrolls has become elder scrolls online and they're their own direction like WoW did.

Audigy

Khuul99 wrote: »

It all comes down to experience (and i mean playing the game) in a group context.

Most people will not have played much in a group so they do not know what to expect. Hence it will always be some ignorace there.

The single reason for this is that the dungeons (4 mans) that do exist in the game is run one time and then forgotten. The incentive to actually play in a group in the 4-mans are nil, the incentive is rather go grind in open world or quest.

The end result is that alot of people comes into dungeons with no knowledge at all about how it works. The quest content is so easy it doesn't matter what you do, you will win anyway (a few exceptions mainly on the guild quests which is nice imo).

While this is true, if ZO puts every content into dungeons then we players would only do this, like at wow. Sure some people find that fun, but I cant say its an attractive gameplay for Europeans or Americans. Its something that works in Asia, but the rest of the world cant stand grinding with a few exceptions at the pro gamer niche.

To me a Dungeon should indeed be a one time thing, if the boss is dead he is dead. I don't know but at the early MMO´s in the 90´s people never had those issue´s, but since wow everyone feels like dungeons need to be grinded, but then players burn out and leave like they did in every MMO that came after wow.

Id say give ZO a chance to make a different MMO, where dungeons don't rule the world, but social experience with other players in the open world or in pvp.

PaulD

Audigy wrote: »

There was a time at wow when that whole min / maxing, perfect DPS, cookie cutter building didn't exist.

I remember tanking with my Warlock at MC and BWL or AQ. I also had a support role where I had to monitor buffs and debuffs and manage CC. At TBC I played a pally and was responsible for our whole healing team and at WOTLK I played a hybrid healer / off tank.

Playing a Warlock today all I would have to do is deal damage and if I support or tank, I would be kicked due low dps or "you are no tank". If I would play a hybrid healer tank, I would be insulted for not having this or that talent...


The way how people play MMO´s has shifted from a fun experience to a "perfect play" one. Hardly anyone plays a class or build because its fun, but because some super guru on twitch or YT told them to and it delivers the most damage, hps or whatever.


That's why I like TESO so much, or lets say why I hoped to like it. I felt that those wow gurus wont have any place inside TESO, but watching the forums I am a bit worried. People still have that world of warcraft philosophy in their heads where only the max potential of a build is important and not if its fun. Personally I do hope that those people wont be able to ruin the game, they did so with every other MMO that came out in the past years, don't let it happen at Teso please.

You just described the reasons why I quit WOW perfectly. Well, that, and the fact that their content has become so boring that they'll GIVE you a high level character just so you don't have to suffer through it.
ESO devs, take note.