Veteran Dungeons aer not fun

nova.terratrb14_ESO

Everything seems to be designed with AOE dps in mind, so a single target player has no place in Veteran Dungeons. Also tanking seems stupid. Nothing wants to target the tank and it runs wild.

This game was literally made with stupid things in mind. Not even sure if this end game is worth playing.

Laura

Translation : "Veteran dungeons are way too hard and the group quit they should be easy enough for a group of people to roll in with no communication"


Yeah they are tough but they are fun as hell if you have a group of people in chat. I agree that there should be some easier veteran dungeons for the puggers though. Just dont say they are stupid because they are difficult.

Paralyse

This could be addressed with a more fine-tuned taunt system for players who wish to play as tank specs, perhaps giving the option of a zero damage taunt skill that has no cooldown so that if something goes astray it can be re-taunted.

On the other hand, you don't want this to an extreme, because then there is no need for healers and DPS to play carefully.

DeLindsay

We had several Guildees complaining about VR Dungeons at first, but after tweaking they're own builds/gear they actually really enjoy them now. Yes, they're hard, but shouldn't they be? The problem in many other MMO's is everything becomes faceroll easy, whether intended or not. I'm 100% behind a game that makes you actually EARN the gear/prestige/rank/etc you get. It's an amazing feeling when you beat a very difficult boss after countless wipes, there's nothing better imho.

Pojunarf

They're hard if you don't want to change your style of play or your action bars. If you have only single target skills, you've got to rethink your approach to the game. While doing the first 3 VR dungeons with my guildmates, every single one of us had to change some skills to adapt to the mechanics of the bosses. This is part of the game: getting the right skills at the right time.

Even with only one pickup in the group, some bosses where insanely hard because said pick didn't grasp the fight even when explained to him: kill those adds! So yeah, if people don't want to understand and step up their game, they won't be able to clear the VR dungeons which might mean a lot a pick up groups won't. Get a guild, because that's what MMOs are for.

Oh, and btw, there are some bosses where AoEs are useless, some can even be called dps checks (that big daedroth spreading fire everywhere).

Asava

"Play how you want" sure sounds amazing!!

Locke_ESO

I disagree completely with OP. In fact I would say it's almost the case that you cant effectively complete the dungeons without a good single target DPS and tank option.

danteafk

The whole game is build upon AoE dps and AoE healing. Either in PvM or PvP, it is the same.

Just spam buttons for AoE and you are good, pretty good game design mechanics.

nova.terratrb14_ESO

I love how the game is advertised as play how you want, but I'm being forced to play how they want.

steinernein

danteafk wrote: »

The whole game is build upon AoE dps and AoE healing. Either in PvM or PvP, it is the same.

Just spam buttons for AoE and you are good, pretty good game design mechanics.

You've cleared all the Vet content and it remains that way?

The trash are more or less all AoE centric, but the fights themselves have rarely been that.

7788b14_ESO

nova.terratrb14_ESO wrote: »

I love how the game is advertised as play how you want, but I'm being forced to play how they want.

This game is giving me flashbacks of "Left, A, Black, X, White, B, B"

Custos91

Is there any reason to only slot single target abillitys if you are going to a dungeon, you should have noticed before, the trash can kill you but he will die fast in aoe...
And with 300 skillpoints, is there any reason not to change your playstyle if the situation calls for it? In fact you are hurting your group if you don't adapt, thats how it is here, thats how it was everywhere...

Zeeed

i use that skill addon got 1 setup for trash second for boss. Is that so hard to clik 1 button and change skill bar setup ??

Valok

nova.terratrb14_ESO wrote: »

Everything seems to be designed with AOE dps in mind, so a single target player has no place in Veteran Dungeons

While it's true that dungeons have a strong focus on AoE I have to disagree with that part.

I'm an archer - single target nuker, my hole build/playstyle is based around taking 1 specific target down fast. I have been grouping with friends I found while pugging and also doing groups with guild mates and I'm being called to join their groups again because I can take down specific targets quickly.

Even while fighting trash there's usually 2-3 mobs on the group that hit hard or heal and they should be brought down quick, having then a hard hitting player to take care of those mobs is definetly not a bad idea.

Bosses also have a lot of health and they need to die fast .

steven_shidiwenb16_ESO

Sounds like you had a horrible group and you all suck.

Xanxarib16_ESO

2nd that these Vet dungeon are not to hard, yes you die when you first try them out but, hard not at all... L2P imo.

Trash is AoE focused and should bel ike that, if you die to AoE trash pull thats your fault.


most Bosses are focused on ST burst dps and some have massive Adds spawn.


to handle these Vet dungeons you should have one weapon skills bar for Single target dps or as tank single target tanking and the 2nd bar for AoE dps or for the Tank AoE CC and damage.


its so easy to swap weapon/skill bar mid fight when the boss spawn adds. i like that the VET dungeons are a little hard, but they should be even harder, for this is all we got for now, and we facerolled these dungeons from the very first run. like so many other have done.

Laura

Asava wrote: »

"Play how you want" sure sounds amazing!!

play how you want doesn't mean you can just toss abilities all over the place and expect to win... you couldn't really do that in any other ES game (unless you cranked the difficulty all the way down to the point you could one shot dragons with a sock) you still had to think about what you were doing.

Yes we have to tweak our abilities but the next sorc healer that heals may not do it the same way I do. It would be silly to think you could get by as a healer just spamming shields for example - or being a tank with no defensive abilities.


You still use your own personal flair you just... have to use your brain is all. We bring two nightblade dps some times and they both go at it completely different we use a sorc healer and a sorc tank and we change how we do things all the time.

Play how you want doesn't mean "no need to strategize or try!" The devs are always saying it fascinates them how the community is always coming up with unique builds that work well thats far from "playing there way"

beravinprb19_ESO

My only issues with the current veteran dungeons are the "DPS checks." The one in Banished Cells is reasonable. You need to kill the boss before all available land is covered in fire. So, you kite, you DPS, you heal, and you burn him down. You have a reasonable amount of time to do this, and if needs be, you can cleanse the ability that causes all the fire. It can be a challenge to do, but you get plenty of time and it is perfectly fair.

The one in Spindleclitch, however, against the "Blood Spawn", is quite the opposite. He hits a lot harder, and he does so in a large AoE. This AoE gets larger as the fight goes on, and becomes more difficult to mitigate. He also has a very powerful single target nuke that can kill a tank unless he blocks it. The tank needs to be on his game, and the healer will have nightmares. On top of that, the DPS need to kill him before he collapses the roof and kills everyone. Its basically an enrage timer, and a short one at that. I have yet to be part of a group that could get him to 50% before we all died. I think my problem is that I actually thought a stamina based DPS build would work... Just can't kill him fast enough.

So, with that said... Most fights are fun, and challenging. There are a few exploits going around that trivialize fights, but a lot of the fights are also quite silly. Some bosses, in my honest opinion, need to be toned down a little. Veteran dungeons should be hard, yes, but I feel they are a little too hard at the moment. In addition, the rewards are not really worth the effort in my opinion, nor are they worth the repair costs for the average PUG.

steinernein

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

..

What is your build if I may ask, I am curious.

beravinprb19_ESO

steinernein wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

..

What is your build if I may ask, I am curious.

100% depends on the situation. That said, there are a few things I almost always bring when I fight a boss. Reverse Slash -> Executioner, for the stamina dump. Fiery Breath -> Burning Breath, for DoT and -40% armour debuff. Dragon Blood -> Coagulating Blood, for a panic button. Then I'll usually bring Momentum -> Rally and Molten Weapons -> Igneous Weapons for group and self damage buffs. Burning Talons for fights with adds, etc.

steinernein

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

100% depends on the situation. That said, there are a few things I almost always bring when I fight a boss. Reverse Slash -> Executioner, for the stamina dump. Fiery Breath -> Burning Breath, for DoT and -40% armour debuff. Dragon Blood -> Coagulating Blood, for a panic button. Then I'll usually bring Momentum -> Rally and Molten Weapons -> Igneous Weapons for group and self damage buffs. Burning Talons for fights with adds, etc.

I'm mainly curious because I think that 2H is more or less about white damage and most people don't take advantage of arcane fighter + weapon cool down along with only using light attacks rather than heavy. So I was curious to see what your tactics were along with set up.

beravinprb19_ESO

steinernein wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

100% depends on the situation. That said, there are a few things I almost always bring when I fight a boss. Reverse Slash -> Executioner, for the stamina dump. Fiery Breath -> Burning Breath, for DoT and -40% armour debuff. Dragon Blood -> Coagulating Blood, for a panic button. Then I'll usually bring Momentum -> Rally and Molten Weapons -> Igneous Weapons for group and self damage buffs. Burning Talons for fights with adds, etc.

I'm mainly curious because I think that 2H is more or less about white damage and most people don't take advantage of arcane fighter + weapon cool down along with only using light attacks rather than heavy. So I was curious to see what your tactics were along with set up.

I focus on heavy attacks for the most part. That said, I think light attacks might be better because of how IW works. Do a light attack and you get +10 fire damage, or do a heavy attack and get +10 fire damage. If anything, heavy attacks should get +20 or even + 30 fire damage. Not only do they have a wind up time, but they are also easier to block, dodge or otherwise mitigate. The way it works at the moment makes no sense at all.