Smart Dodges
Hi there,
I've been playing MMOs for the past 10 years and I've mostly been PvP oriented. I love finding ways to beat my opponents in 1v1s and finding ways and builds where I could also 1v2. In ESO I am now a NB veteran rank 3 and so far I've experimented a lot with a bunch of different gear sets and builds. The build I seem to enjoy the most is a ranged, mostly bow with siphoning skills build with a lot of stamina and medium gear. With this build, the way I'm supposed to mitigate damage and survive is through my small heals and mainly through well placed dodges.
The first time I've used the dodge system was in GW2 and after playing other MMOs where balancing was always an issue, this felt like the best idea ever. Whatever abilities my opponents had that were a little too strong, I could counter by just dodging them. I played GW2 for a little over a year, lvling 3 different classes to max lvl and doing WvWvW and on all of them and I was able to feel very comfortable in PvP and manage to win 1vX fights simply because I knew which skills I should dodge.
When I heard ESO also has the dodge system I was really excited and I knew that this alone, from a PvP perspective could make this game great and really fun. I am however having a little bit of trouble with the ESO dodges system:
My first issue is an issue that I've managed to work around and I don't mind it anymore, if anything I can see it has some benefits. The 1-5 abilities share an animation CD with dodges so often if you just used an ability and you want to dodge something coming your way you can't because you're on CD and by the time you do get to dodge you've already been hit or its too late. This can be very frustrating vs big hits that you know you want to avoid and especially vs incoming CC. The way I've managed to work around this is to sort of "expect" when these abilities should be coming my way and only use light attacks for a few seconds so I can dodge right away. I can see the benefits of this system because it makes it a little more challenging to score good dodges, you have to play a little smarter and learn how to predict your opponents. In many cases this isn't too bad, for example a 1h/shield opponent will try to stun you when they're looking/running your way or after you open on them and they break the stun caused by falling off their mount. By knowing this, you can plan your dodges accordingly so while at first it may seem kind of uncomfortable it is something you can work with. I would however prefer if abilities didn't share any sort of a CD with dodges and if you could always dodge EXACTLY when you wanted it. I feel like this would make the game play way more fun and reactive or responsive but you can still work with the current system if you just try a little harder.
This second issue is what bothers me the most and while I've also found a work around it, its still very frustrating. I've had some issues with dodges in PvP where it seemed like it was my fault and I was a little too late and that's why I got hit so I decided to try and practice a lot in PvE where its a lot easier since enemy attacks are far more predictable. What I've noticed after a lot and a lot of practice is that unless you dodge EXACTLY when the casting animation starts for instant abilities (such as a fire bolt), you will get hit. It may seem like you started your dodge before the projectile or attack left the enemy and that when it gets to you you're clearly in the middle of a dodge, however regardless of that it still hits you. You basically have to press your dodge key right as the enemy presses their attack key and that basically makes it impossible for you to dodge in response to an incoming attack. The work around I found for this is that you again try and predict what your enemy is doing and try to make an "educated guess" of when to dodge. For example after you open on someone from stealth and they get stunned off their mount, you're going to attack them freely for a couple of seconds since they can't break that stun sooner, however as soon as they're out, within a second or two they'll try and use a major ability to counter you. To use the same example as before, a melee opponent will either try to charge you or use any sort of gap closer. By knowing this you can pre-dodge their incoming attack and hence avoid it. As a NB, this does get a bit easier since you can expect a big attack after every single one of your Shadow Cloak (vanishes). If you dodge a second later after getting out of stealth, it's very likely you'll dodge something good.
So while I've personally been able to find interesting and somewhat effective ways to properly use the dodge system, it's still very frustrating when you know a big attack is coming your way and you press your dodge key and you either can't dodge because you just used an ability or you do dodge and you're in mid dodge however somehow you still get hit. I assume that it could be a lag issue since I am playing from EU on a NA server however it was the same case in GW2 and I didn't have this issue.
I personally hope that these 2 issues get fixed in a way where dodges are more effective and you're able to use them as a response to what's going on and not as an "educated guess". Meanwhile, I'm going to continue playing and use the work around(s) that I was able to find and enjoy the game as is. Thanks for reading and for posting your opinions.
I've been playing MMOs for the past 10 years and I've mostly been PvP oriented. I love finding ways to beat my opponents in 1v1s and finding ways and builds where I could also 1v2. In ESO I am now a NB veteran rank 3 and so far I've experimented a lot with a bunch of different gear sets and builds. The build I seem to enjoy the most is a ranged, mostly bow with siphoning skills build with a lot of stamina and medium gear. With this build, the way I'm supposed to mitigate damage and survive is through my small heals and mainly through well placed dodges.
The first time I've used the dodge system was in GW2 and after playing other MMOs where balancing was always an issue, this felt like the best idea ever. Whatever abilities my opponents had that were a little too strong, I could counter by just dodging them. I played GW2 for a little over a year, lvling 3 different classes to max lvl and doing WvWvW and on all of them and I was able to feel very comfortable in PvP and manage to win 1vX fights simply because I knew which skills I should dodge.
When I heard ESO also has the dodge system I was really excited and I knew that this alone, from a PvP perspective could make this game great and really fun. I am however having a little bit of trouble with the ESO dodges system:
My first issue is an issue that I've managed to work around and I don't mind it anymore, if anything I can see it has some benefits. The 1-5 abilities share an animation CD with dodges so often if you just used an ability and you want to dodge something coming your way you can't because you're on CD and by the time you do get to dodge you've already been hit or its too late. This can be very frustrating vs big hits that you know you want to avoid and especially vs incoming CC. The way I've managed to work around this is to sort of "expect" when these abilities should be coming my way and only use light attacks for a few seconds so I can dodge right away. I can see the benefits of this system because it makes it a little more challenging to score good dodges, you have to play a little smarter and learn how to predict your opponents. In many cases this isn't too bad, for example a 1h/shield opponent will try to stun you when they're looking/running your way or after you open on them and they break the stun caused by falling off their mount. By knowing this, you can plan your dodges accordingly so while at first it may seem kind of uncomfortable it is something you can work with. I would however prefer if abilities didn't share any sort of a CD with dodges and if you could always dodge EXACTLY when you wanted it. I feel like this would make the game play way more fun and reactive or responsive but you can still work with the current system if you just try a little harder.
This second issue is what bothers me the most and while I've also found a work around it, its still very frustrating. I've had some issues with dodges in PvP where it seemed like it was my fault and I was a little too late and that's why I got hit so I decided to try and practice a lot in PvE where its a lot easier since enemy attacks are far more predictable. What I've noticed after a lot and a lot of practice is that unless you dodge EXACTLY when the casting animation starts for instant abilities (such as a fire bolt), you will get hit. It may seem like you started your dodge before the projectile or attack left the enemy and that when it gets to you you're clearly in the middle of a dodge, however regardless of that it still hits you. You basically have to press your dodge key right as the enemy presses their attack key and that basically makes it impossible for you to dodge in response to an incoming attack. The work around I found for this is that you again try and predict what your enemy is doing and try to make an "educated guess" of when to dodge. For example after you open on someone from stealth and they get stunned off their mount, you're going to attack them freely for a couple of seconds since they can't break that stun sooner, however as soon as they're out, within a second or two they'll try and use a major ability to counter you. To use the same example as before, a melee opponent will either try to charge you or use any sort of gap closer. By knowing this you can pre-dodge their incoming attack and hence avoid it. As a NB, this does get a bit easier since you can expect a big attack after every single one of your Shadow Cloak (vanishes). If you dodge a second later after getting out of stealth, it's very likely you'll dodge something good.
So while I've personally been able to find interesting and somewhat effective ways to properly use the dodge system, it's still very frustrating when you know a big attack is coming your way and you press your dodge key and you either can't dodge because you just used an ability or you do dodge and you're in mid dodge however somehow you still get hit. I assume that it could be a lag issue since I am playing from EU on a NA server however it was the same case in GW2 and I didn't have this issue.
I personally hope that these 2 issues get fixed in a way where dodges are more effective and you're able to use them as a response to what's going on and not as an "educated guess". Meanwhile, I'm going to continue playing and use the work around(s) that I was able to find and enjoy the game as is. Thanks for reading and for posting your opinions.
2
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Valmond✭✭✭Seems to me that the servers decide whether or not the mob hits you before the hit actually lands, and whether you hit a mob after your hit lands.
Mostly i find dodge fairly useless.
Some attacks you can dodge, yes, but most of the time, if i have time to dodge, i probably had time to just run out of it as well (because double tapping WASD to dodge is slow).
Hopefully it gets better as game gets updated.0 -
reggielee✭✭✭✭thank goodness. I thought it was just me and being clumsyMama always said the fastest way to a man's heart is through his chest.0 -
Greydog✭✭✭✭set your dodge to the v key. I've found it to be very responsive."I Plan on living forever ..so far so good"
Sanguine's DiscipleAsylum Amoebaeus ..A refuge for those who normally fly solo.
Message me here or in game for an invite0 -
Greydog✭✭✭✭
Yeah I tried that first but found that needing to brace the mouse while you squeeze the button was using a fraction more time than I liked. Then I tried the s key which worked well, but then I had no s key. I saw someone suggest he v key and it was expendable so I switched to that.
I find that laying a finger on the direction key I want then tapping v with another gives me just that little bit more and makes the dodge that much more effective.
"I Plan on living forever ..so far so good"
Sanguine's DiscipleAsylum Amoebaeus ..A refuge for those who normally fly solo.
Message me here or in game for an invite0
