Its not a BUG, it is POOR design

metaldrummer1962b14a_ESO

Obviously, ESO was made using a "cookie cutter" approach, i.e. reuse of objects etc, which you can see in how many interiors look exactly the same, etc, as well as in other areas of the game and its aspects.
All of which is a minor nuance and to a degree understandable.

However, where this becomes an issue is in one of the reused quest models; that being the many quests which require players to STOP what they are required to do in 90% of the game, that being... killing monsters.

Thus, it should be no surprise, that when encountering one of these quests, to see a large amount of players waiting for the monster to spawn and then praying that other players not familiar with the quest, will not come by randomly and kill the spawn before it can run its quest mechanics.

The result is, 90% of the players who do not know about the quest, kill the spawn and break the quest.
Desperate spamming by the questing players pleading for other players to not kill the spawn, to allow it to do its thing...as part of the quest mechanic required to advance the quest....usually are not successful.
As unfortunately, many players are not watching chat close enough to notice the pleas, and many turn zone chat off due to the gold spammers and growing infantile discussions, but moreover the other players just do not know about the quest.

The end result is frustrated and angry questers who feel everyone is either a jerk or griefer, when they kill such a spawn.
Well, that is true for a very tiny tiny number of players.
99% of them had no way of knowing...
And thus, the poor design of certain aspects of the game, hurts all the good things in this game.

This was all known in BETA, and nothing was done, and it may be a long long time before such things can be fixed.

Should you complain about such things, you are told that all MMORPGs are like this at release.

The question is why?
The answer is that YOU the player allowed it.

You the player have purchased MMOs since the late 1990s that are released in a form no other major release of other types of games would have been deemed acceptable.
But back in the day, the novelty and want to be with thousands of other players was a desire that caused us to over look such horrible short comings.
Thus, the standard for MMOs are now 1) A poor release and 2) Bugs forever.
This has now carried over into all other types of games beyond MMOs as well.

Maybe it is time, to just say no to games that want you to pay a subscription for unfinished products.
Unfinished not in content or bug fixing, but the BASIC, COMMON SENSE, things that are the back bone of every game, i.e. a minimum standard of quality.

Otherwise, as we have seen, quality goes down with every release because developers know that you the player will either accept it, or flame others who do not accept it.

I love ESO, but I will not re-subscribe and fork over more money until I see progress.

Vote with your dollars, if you do, you will see results.
It is just a shame that we have to do this with out beloved Elder Scrolls MMO, and hopefully, by the time our 30 days are up, we can re-subscribe to a high standard of a product worthy of a subscription.

SexyVette07

Well said. The only language these big companies speak is money. When the game gets boring because they didnt add more content every 4-6 weeks like they promised, or they nerf the difficulty to that of a kid with down syndrome can complete the quests and game will be the day I refuse to give them any more money. They have to earn my $15 every single month. I have no problem dropping the game at any given time, I have plenty of things I could be doing instead.

The bugs so far have been acceptable for launch IMO, not great, but acceptable. I havent run into the progress blocking quests yet though.

Chirru

You make some good points there.
However...yes, the dreaded 'BUT' ...

To actually do what you requested needs a complete
redesigning of the game from scratch.

To make changes now would introduce so many Bugs that
the game would be almost not playable.

Yes, i know that some people are of the opinion it is already not playable.
Well, i do Not agree with that view.

Still, you make some good points and one can only hope the next generation of games will avoid the...what did you call it...ah...cookie cutter approach.

Remember... as with all games so ESO in its running time updates to what is expected, or (like the old most played MMO game ever, which I will not mention here) ESO will become a dinosaur on display.

Thete

Chirru wrote: »

You make some good points there.
However...yes, the dreaded 'BUT' ...

To actually do what you requested needs a complete
redesigning of the game from scratch.

There are quests which are not compatible with an MMO world and I agree they are poor design (Lifeline in Eastmarch is a classic example on EP side). They don't need a re-design of the game, just an acceptance that if an NPC is killable but need to not be killed for a quest to succeed, then that event needs to be instanced to that player/group.

My first impression of ESO during beta was how great it was that you don't seem to be frustrated by other players in an area. There is no tagging of mobs, if you do damage to it you will get the loot and the xp. All seemed great until I started coming across situations like the OP describes where quests can only be completed when no bugger is about (quite tricky even at off peak times with the megaserver idea). These quests are few and far between, but they are there nonetheless.

Shimond

By all means, speak with your credit card if you feel that strongly about whatever issue it is you're complaining about (I'm guessing it's 'broken quests'?). I'm not really having that problem so I'll keep on playing the game and enjoying it.

Zorak

The only thing I've found that screams poor design was a NPC in Ebonheart Pact.

It's that guy you meet frozen inside a cave at Bleakrock Isle. Later on you meet MANY NPCs with the same generic face.

It's really ridiculous. It's the same guy and his generic face with a beard, or a hat, maybe a little darker skin tone, or something like that.

Zorak

Zorak wrote: »

The only thing I've found that screams poor design was "one" NPC in Ebonheart Pact.

It's that guy you meet frozen inside a cave at Bleakrock Isle. Later on you meet MANY NPCs with the same generic face.

It's really ridiculous. It's the same guy and his generic face with a beard, or a hat, maybe a little darker skin tone, or something like that.

rawne1980b16_ESO

The biggest design flaw i've found is dungeon design.

So many look the same it's like playing Dragon Age 2 all over again.

But I do agree on some of the quest mechanics. Some were not designed for an MMO. If having too many people around a spawn or object can break it then that's not a bug, it's bad design.

metaldrummer1962b14a_ESO

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

The biggest design flaw i've found is dungeon design.

So many look the same it's like playing Dragon Age 2 all over again.

But I do agree on some of the quest mechanics. Some were not designed for an MMO. If having too many people around a spawn or object can break it then that's not a bug, it's bad design.

Funny you should mention that..I was shard hunting yesterday and it was impossible for me to recall if I had been in a dungeon before based on design and looks.....in retrospect..they are all 80% identical.
SAD...

Lalai

I expect any newly launched software to have bugs emerge. Then again, my boyfriend is a programmer, and I've been dealing with the customer support side of technology for around 10 years.

I will never, ever, demand a bug free launch from an MMO. I will play what I feel like, when I feel like it. If the bugs are things I find frustrating, and that frustration over-rides my fun. I'll stop playing at that point.

Shimond

Lalai wrote: »

I will never, ever, demand a bug free launch from an MMO. I will play what I feel like, when I feel like it. If the bugs are things I find frustrating, and that frustration over-rides my fun. I'll stop playing at that point.

This is the approach the rational person takes. Congrats for being one the few in these parts!

nerevarine1138

metaldrummer1962b14a_ESO wrote: »

Funny you should mention that..I was shard hunting yesterday and it was impossible for me to recall if I had been in a dungeon before based on design and looks.....in retrospect..they are all 80% identical.
SAD...

See, this is how I know you're just looking for something to complain about.

First: each of the instanced group dungeons are 100% unique, and awesomely so. Anyone claiming otherwise hasn't played them.

Second: When it comes to public dungeons, there are some dungeon types that have a similar layout (some caves, some Ayleid ruins, etc.). It is nowhere near the "80% identical" number you're touting, nor is it unreasonable that one or two dungeons of the same architectural style will look similar.

Finally, if you're having that much trouble remembering whether you were in a dungeon before, look at your map. You seem to be deliberately finding things to complain about when a solution is already available.

trixsterjl_ESO

I dont know of any quests where I have to wait for a Mob to do anything but die. It's only been an issue when there is a high level 1 shotting a low level boss for instance. (so far).

Ubiach

it is your first mmorpg ? did you play at Wow or Rift or final fantasy 14 ? all house was the same all cavern was the same too , wake up man

Gedalya

All of which is a minor nuance and to a degree understandable.

nu·ance
ˈn(y)o͞oˌäns/Submit
noun
1.
a subtle difference in or shade of meaning, expression, or sound.

Your use of minor and nuance is redundant; also your use of nuance is an oxymoron: if assets are reused then in fact the game lacks nuance.



Also...

vaxure

I have an idea! Put your money where your mouth is and do what you said.
Vote with your money and leave so we don't have to listen to more of your sniveling?

demonlkojipub19_ESO

New houses built IRL are typically "cookie cutter" unless someone wants something customized. Theres a new housing district in my area finished last year and no crap all of them look the same, inside and out, maybe a different color roof here and there. Theres no reason to change a good design that you can build very easily with low cost construction.

Plus, there are many differences about the item placement in the interiors of ESO living areas. Bed placement, wardrobe placement, nightstand placements, whether they even have those things or not, etc. The layout may be cookie cutter, but they are not-copypasta.

Ive also noticed 0 places on the world map that contain copy-pasta too.

jeremylthb14_ESO

Gedalya wrote: »

All of which is a minor nuance and to a degree understandable.

nu·ance
ˈn(y)o͞oˌäns/Submit
noun
1.
a subtle difference in or shade of meaning, expression, or sound.

Your use of minor and nuance is redundant; also your use of nuance is an oxymoron: if assets are reused then in fact the game lacks nuance.


Also...

It should be obvious that the intended word was "nuisance."

ibrockbottomed77_ESO

This stinks of a veiled whine about the werewolf and vampire spawns being camped.

RaZaddha

Gedalya wrote: »

Also...

Also, what quest are you talking about, pretty much finishing AD side and never encountered this: "Thus, it should be no surprise, that when encountering one of these quests, to see a large amount of players waiting for the monster to spawn and then praying that other players not familiar with the quest, will not come by randomly and kill the spawn before it can run its quest mechanics."