Werewolf should be a complete toggle

Thrystblade

Right now it's set up as an 'ultimate' which is just garbage. Ten minutes of grinding enemies for a half a minute of frenzied attacks that are just not very effective or fun. It's really, really just pointless.

Either make it a toggle or don't bother.

Force us to turn into a werewolf at night. Force us to turn back during the day. Let us toggle werewolf on and off whenever we want (within reason), or seriously, SERIOUSLY buff the absolute *** out of the werewolf form.

Seriously.

Right now, the werewolf is useless. Between an actual ultimate that does something, and the werewolf form, I'll take the ultimate skill that DOES something.

Even in PVE the werewolf is just garbage. After ten minutes of grinding you get a single werewolf form that can kill maybe three or four enemies before disappearing entirely. There are just no upsides to being a werewolf except 'it's cool'.

And I mean, ***, I enjoy being a khajiit that can hulk out into a giant wolf, that's awesome. But the werewolf itself is so underwhelming as to be pointless. Especially when you make them insanely weak to poison and the fighter's guild.

The vampire skill tree at least has things you can USE! You can use skills OUTSIDE of a transformation. You don't have to grind a thousand ultimate each and every time you want to use an ability for thirty seconds.

I'd almost say the werewolf is situational, except I can't think of a single situation where turning into a werewolf would be actually useful.

Buff the *** out of it or make it a toggle, please.

If the vampire isn't limited in their abilities to use their class, we shouldn't be, either.

ploddab16_ESO

Already suggested making it a toggle-able ability, like WoW's feral druid. Still, it's nice to see that folks are sharing the same thoughts as me on it. Bring on the toggle form!

otribe

A toggle would add another dynamic to the game, instead of people who can morph into a wolf from time to time like a cheap party trick, becoming a werewolf could actually change the style of gameplay. Getting bitten by a wolf would actually be a character changing decision that could change your play style. right now I feel it's a more of a little bonus that if you're lucky, you can get a lot out of it. In dungeons, I morph and have to rush people to make sure I kill more than one mob out of it; rushing a group hardly ever works out. This isn't a problem if you get a group that doesn't like looting...... which is rather uncommon. In PVP, I transform once, kill about three people, then go back to grinding for another morph. In PVE questing, I morph, kill the required mobs, then wait another 30 minutes until I grind up the 1000 ultimate (painfully).

I love being a WW but it seems like it just isn't effective enough.

I fully agree that a toggle ability would do the WW some good. If Zenimax finds a way to balance it correctly. Im sure they will.

Klimarov

I think they should make werewolf similar to vampire.

Basically, that every blood moon they turn into wolf for the night's duration and let's say 2nd passive ability if you place point into it will let the person change every night into a wolf.

the rest of the passives should be tailored around day/night cycle, where during the day werewolf will have like 50 or 75% effect of their passives and at night all 100%. Of course the actual werewolf form will have to be nerfed damage wise (since they do a ridiculously high damage when morphed right now) to balance it out.

Lastly them and vamps should get full array of 5 skills, not just 2 + ult. also i would suggest were wolfs to be able to use certain skills from the tree, like let's say charge from 2h weapon tree. this would make it fair.

ploddab16_ESO

I think the easiest thing is to make it akin to a druid form from WoW, one which you switch to to gain certain boons at the cost of your other abilities. That alone would balance it out, simply giving the player the choice between melee combat with a few more powerful abilities (some of which, like howl, would be given a CD) at the cost of your ranged attacks, healing spells, and most importantly at the cost of an increased susceptibility to poison damage.

Brittany_Joy

I wouldn't mind a werewolf form I can toggle on or off, it would be sweet.

But I think I would prefer it if ZoS just allowed werewolves to dodge, at least, and give us a special location to craft any gear with the savior's hide set bonus, that is a bit changed. Instead the 3 set bonus should give poison resistance and the 5 set bonus should reduce the werewolf ultimate cost by 33%.

They could also increase the time given from devour and feral pounce 'cause peeps want to be werewolves for a long time lol

Haven

I am personally for this idea, various points made in this thread is true. It takes quite a while to get 1000ish ult just for about 30 seconds of fun.

A toggle would make it more enjoyable and as others said not like a "Partytrick."

Over all while in the werewolf form it is a total blast. Especially when you have a full team of wolves turning at the same time. Would be more fun if our change lasted longer than the time it takes to go get a drink from the fridge and come back. lol

rorcusb16_ESO

I'd have to agree! As a caster you give up so much to kill 3 mobs slightly slower than my summons can kill on their own (which you lose as soon as you shift obviously)

Make it toggle and maybe have a timer on it that the longer you stay in the form you start to lose stam regen so you have to come out of form to rest etc.. i.e shapshift, tear the crap out of stuff and after 5 mins -25% stam regen, 10 mins -50% 15mins -75% debuff.

Then human form for at least 2 mins to remove the debuff then maybe have slight buff for night time/Full moon use i.e give less of a drain such as 5%/25%/50%.

lyndsayporterb16_ESO

The Druid from Diablo 2 had a better werewolf skill line than the one in this game. He stayed in wolf form longer the more points you put into the skill. Building up nearly 1000 ultimate (depending on your set bonuses and such) for 30-60 seconds of werewolf time is a really killjoy. At this point I'd much rather become a vampire, if getting infected wasn't such a pain to begin with. As it stands, i guess I'll keep rocking the werewolf until zenimax does some overhauling/bug fixing

otribe

I loved WereWolf in Diablo 2, They were the days.

I do like the stamina reduction rate mentioned before, that was an interesting idea. Another idea would be to make it a full transformation any time. Staying in Werewolf form has its perks. But lets not forget that 50% vulnerability to poison. Transforming into werewolf form without any stamina regen reduction I think would still be ok because you are not indestructible whilst morphed. As i said before, morphing does have its perks, but it also has many disadvantages.

- 50% increased damage from poison
- the ability to only use two skills
- not being able to use any of your class skills
- becoming a target on the battle field

I feel that being able to transform whenever wouldn't be a bad idea. You get increased damage output and speed at the price of vulnerability and lack of flexibility. If you put an increased animation time on morphing to make it a semi long process normal characters would have a balanced time taking down WW's
The longer animation time would get rid of the "Oh Sh**t, archer's coming, quick, morph back!" Making people have a harder time morphing to and from WW in the middle of battle.

It's not like a druid like morph would be OP. In my opinion, there are many disadvantages of being in WW form so if people want to run around permanently as a WW, go ahead. If you're smart, you can use the extra damage and speed to your advantage. If not, Im sure people with poison damage would love have a word with you.
TESO puts a heavy emphasis on player skill, knowing when and how to use werewolf form I feel would be part of that.

Spriggen

Make it a toggle but nerf the damage they do. They are OP in PvE and PvP

oldkye

Reading all these gave me a idea that I kind of like lol.

What if you had no control over it? so you didn't have to use a ultimate slot but it would be impossible to "save up" for pvp and boss fights when attacking and getting hit you build up a rage bar and when you fill it you turn into a werewolf.

Make the bar like 500 and you get 10 every time you attack or get hit(50 hits back and forth) but the bar decays at 5 a second out of combat it would make you feel much more like a uncontrollable beast and you won't feel as nerfed by the loss of a ultimate slot.

This also doesn't require and reworking of the tree and abilities or balancing simple from a dev side of things.

I doubt it would ever happen but it's good food for thought.

jaron_edow

I HAVE A SOLUTION! I didn't read everyone's comments so if I am repeating someone I'm sorry get over it.

Instead of toggle, or boosting the form, because it is already pretty beast (I.M.O.) at least when killing mobs in pve. They should absolutely add humanoid form boosts, regardless of anything the vamps have. Don't quote me on this because I may be mistaken but my active effects tells me lycanthropy gives 50% weakness to poison. So I'm taking a poison damage while in humanoid form? But literally getting none of the benefits of being a werewolf, that seems like a huge flaw logically. If this is untrue and you don't take increased poison damage then why not? Give us the weakness of poison and add some benefits too. The vamps take extra fire damage 100% of the time but also get benefits 100% of the time so it only makes sense to me. That is my two cents, it seems like a very fair solution. Instead of making the werewolf OP just make it equal, thanks for reading.

Brittany_Joy

otribe wrote: »

I loved WereWolf in Diablo 2, They were the days.

I do like the stamina reduction rate mentioned before, that was an interesting idea. Another idea would be to make it a full transformation any time. Staying in Werewolf form has its perks. But lets not forget that 50% vulnerability to poison. Transforming into werewolf form without any stamina regen reduction I think would still be ok because you are not indestructible whilst morphed. As i said before, morphing does have its perks, but it also has many disadvantages.

- 50% increased damage from poison
- the ability to only use two skills
- not being able to use any of your class skills
- becoming a target on the battle field

I feel that being able to transform whenever wouldn't be a bad idea. You get increased damage output and speed at the price of vulnerability and lack of flexibility. If you put an increased animation time on morphing to make it a semi long process normal characters would have a balanced time taking down WW's
The longer animation time would get rid of the "Oh Sh**t, archer's coming, quick, morph back!" Making people have a harder time morphing to and from WW in the middle of battle.

It's not like a druid like morph would be OP. In my opinion, there are many disadvantages of being in WW form so if people want to run around permanently as a WW, go ahead. If you're smart, you can use the extra damage and speed to your advantage. If not, Im sure people with poison damage would love have a word with you.
TESO puts a heavy emphasis on player skill, knowing when and how to use werewolf form I feel would be part of that.

The costly ultimate gets rid of using werewolf form at the right time though 'cause the ultimate disappears after awhile. The high cost requires minutes of grinding PvE mobs because it is very unlikely you will get 925 ultimate while using siege weapons and short PvP skirmishes. The high cost is not viable in a PvP situation because the ultimate gained tends to disappear when you use siege weapons or on the run to the next keep. In addition to the the inconvenient ultimate cost, you are also unable to dodge attacks or CC break in werewolf form. Overall, the high cost, being more susceptible to CC, and short duration makes werewolves miserable in PvP.

However werewolf damage and the active skills are fine because they perform really well in PvE and PvP.

Januk

Why not reverse the way it works?

You can toggle it whenever but it still requires ultimate, the more ultimate you have when you transform dictates the "Base" duration of it. So if you have lets say 200 Ultimate(from 1000 base) when you transform you'll only stay as a werewolf for 20% of the full duration so for simplicities sake lets say the full duration is 100s that would mean with 200 ultimate (from 1000 base) you'd only stay as werewolf for 20s n this without feeding obviously feeding would still work as it does now and add time to the transform.

This would change the werewolf to the better I think since you could easily have like 100 ulti within a minute n depending on build your 100 ulti would last longer then in werewolf form. T.ex. my ulti now costs like 790+ something like that, due to both the lvl of my ulti and the Sorc Daedric summoning passive that reduces ulti by 15%? so basically for me 100 ulti would last longer then for someone who still got the base cost of 1000

You'll have to excuse if it's very... Cluttered and disorganized I'm not the best at explaining my train of thought.

otribe

Why not just make it free?
There are plenty of things that are disadvantages of being a WW
Basically what I was saying before was a possible solution would be:

-Make it like a druid transformation (free)
-Long animation time to prevent morphing back quickly
-Nerf the damage a little bit

It'll make it so you can't just morph anywhere, and morph back when you see some archers.

Nitratas

More abilities would be nice to be honest. 2 abilities and no actual ultimate is meh

KingShocker

I think it's unanimous at this point that the WW are as gimped as their model and animation is terrible. I can understand that zenimax has been incredibly busy with launch and all that but it would be cool if they had plans on helping us out. The toggle feature i think is the best way to go honestly, have it be the same where it can store up to 1,000 ultimate but instead you can toggle it on at any point and it consumes ultimate points per so many seconds while transformed. I also agree more abilities would also be great like a bleed (i think ww should have lots of bleeds tbh) and maybe a life steal (being ww have 0 sustainability it feels like my heath runs out before my ultimate does 90% of the time) and than maybe have the life steal be more effective verses bleeding targets. I don't however think they should be based off of day/night time or moon cycles or whatever. In a game that is cloudy half the time with no in-game time in any menu and don't get me started on trying to guess what moon cycle it is. playing a ww would just be painful if you had to keep track of all that crap and i don't know about you but i'm a big fan of consistency. Also a nerf to WW damage would make it unplayable to me, i've spec'd as far as one could into stamina and ww barely does 8% more damage than my normal attacks and it's mostly ST damage.

Rosebloome

Make it a toggle pleaassseeee.

Drake713

They already have a toggle in place in game as is... the 2nd weapon bar. Make the werewolf sacrifice his 2nd action bar for his werewolf form, then just balance out the numbers so that it is fair.

Trenyt

I don't think its fair that the werewolf should sacrifice his second weapon set when the Vampire doesn't. If that was the case the Werewolf would have to be twice as powerful as the Vampire.

_Proteus_

A second weapon set does NOT make a character twice as powerful, so your logic is rather flawed. It would make more sense if you couldn't control it and you simply turned into a wolf every night and had no choice in the matter. They'd have to nerf the damage a bit though, of course.

Trenyt

You make no sense. So let me get this straight not only do you want to make werewolf only accessible at night without any control by the player, you want to reduce our damage in the form. That is plain ridiculous. You are obviously not a Werewolf.

I suppose you want Vampires to instantly combust in daylight and only quest during the moonlight hours?

7788b14_ESO

There should be a continued quest line for both. Granting rewards like toggle wolf and bat form.

KingShocker

_Proteus_ wrote: »

A second weapon set does NOT make a character twice as powerful, so your logic is rather flawed. It would make more sense if you couldn't control it and you simply turned into a wolf every night and had no choice in the matter. They'd have to nerf the damage a bit though, of course.

No. nope. no no nope no no NO no noPE no no NOPE NOPE noooooooooo.....

....Speaking of flawed logic.

KingShocker

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

There should be a continued quest line for both. Granting rewards like toggle wolf and bat form.

In future updates I imagine they will (or I at least really really hope they will). WW still needs some big fixes now.

KingShocker

Drake713 wrote: »

They already have a toggle in place in game as is... the 2nd weapon bar. Make the werewolf sacrifice his 2nd action bar for his werewolf form, then just balance out the numbers so that it is fair.

yea...... no......

Sorcerers have a toggle ultimate. Seems like the solution here is pretty obvious.

m.ninehouser_ESO

am i confused here?.. why are people morphing back at all? i thought the -50% poison debuff was constant? even when in human form. am i incorrect?

KingShocker

m.ninehouser_ESO wrote: »

am i confused here?.. why are people morphing back at all? i thought the -50% poison debuff was constant? even when in human form. am i incorrect?

yea it is, that's why we should be ably to transform whenever we want. If we have the disadvantages of being a WW all the time we should be able to use it's abilities all the time too not just once every 925 ultimate points.

It would be nice to only have the debuff when you were transformed if that's what you're talking about. I can see people saying that it would be too OP but most people wouldn't know you're WW on the battlefield until you transformed in which case you would eat about 20 poison arrows and silver bolts almost instantly (I know this by experience, it's not fun). And if you didn't have the debuff while you were normal you could tank VR dungeons without getting kicked out at the first enemy that uses poison attacks.

m.ninehouser_ESO

oh okay i see. yeah that makes sense. but i think we'd be too overpowered if we could just transform whenever we wanted. maybe something like each time we transform, our stamina drains faster and faster while we are wolfed until we stay out of it long enough to recharge fully.

but i tell you what sticks in my craw is that these stupid idiot addons all tell you when someone is a ww before they even transform. it's kind of a *** game breaker for me. in as far as pvp goes.

Mustaklaki

m.ninehouser_ESO wrote: »

but i tell you what sticks in my craw is that these stupid idiot addons all tell you when someone is a ww before they even transform. it's kind of a *** game breaker for me. in as far as pvp goes.

They really need to crack down on some addons. Most of the UI stuff gives extremely unfair advantages to those that use them. I don't want to use them, this is an Elder Scrolls game, not User Interface Simulator 2014.