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Annoyingly small anti-lore details that really bother a lore-lover like myself
PHGDAL
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Part 1
Let's start with the very basics. Anti-lore dialogue.
Has anyone noticed that the voice-actors (which are phenomenal by the way) sometimes say lore-breaking content?!
I'll give you some examples:
In Auridon, the clothier Bosmer at the marketplace. I forget his name, but the phrase is clearly burnt in my memory, says:
"If you're working in cloth or leather I am your man, what can I get you?"
I swear by Auri-El, ZOS. Isn't it obvious that this guy is a MER and not a man. I cringe every time I talk to that merchant.
Another example of this:
I'm not too far along the story and can't think of more of these occasions (but I'll probably find some since the game isn't perfect).
Part 2
Crafting.
I posted in the crafting forum not too long ago about how I was unable to play my Green-Pact-following Bosmer character properly simply because I couldn't craft a bow without gathering wood. ?!?! (Yes I know, it is a silly thing to be worried about but it bothers me! Even by crafting a bow in the Bosmer style and using bone, it still needs wood)
The solution to that thread was someone explaining that the Green Pact only applied to wood coming from Valenwood itself! That means I can gather wood in Auridon or other parts of Tamriel to make my bows and no Green Pact infringement would occur right? WRONG. Turns out that certain types of wood are not found ANYWHERE other than Valenwood (within AD of course). So, what? I can't gather non-Valenwood oak to make my bows? Now the only solution I had to being able to properly roleplay was crushed! Thanks a lot ZOS! *angry face*
In all seriousness though, why can't it be that high level resource be gather-able only to high level players and make them available in Auridon as well?? That would give the players who finished the area a reason to return and keep the area populated, as well as allowing picky lore-nuts like myself roleplay!
Other Crazy Suggestions
These are crazy specifically because they would be difficult, tedious, or impossible to implement, but I wanted to voice them anyway.
Again, returning to the Bosmer Green Pact issue, it would be nice if certain foods had some sort of label or something to indicate it was okay to eat it. Some foods are very clear, but the beverages are just nearly impossible to figure out (unless you get the recipe and check it yourself).
Similar to the note at the bottom saying "A common Aldmeri Dominion beverage", would it be too much to ask for certain foods and drinks to have "Green Pact safe" or something? It would definitely make the game so much more intriguing for crazy people like me.
Thank you so much for hearing me ramble on about lore (I know some of you simply think it's stupid). But hey, it bothers me and I want ZOS to keep The Elder Scroll's fantastic lore correct and up to date! And for future reference (as it was assumed way too much in my previous post), I am a she.
To show how much I care:
Edited by PHGDAL on April 12, 2014 12:29PM Let's start with the very basics. Anti-lore dialogue.
Has anyone noticed that the voice-actors (which are phenomenal by the way) sometimes say lore-breaking content?!
I'll give you some examples:
In Auridon, the clothier Bosmer at the marketplace. I forget his name, but the phrase is clearly burnt in my memory, says:
"If you're working in cloth or leather I am your man, what can I get you?"
I swear by Auri-El, ZOS. Isn't it obvious that this guy is a MER and not a man. I cringe every time I talk to that merchant.
Another example of this:
You finally set sail to Grahtwood in the Prowler and you talk to the Khajiit soldier who is helping the refugees against the pirate attack in Haven. She's a Khajiit but she doesn't use "this one"???
Seriously, it's like in the entire two paragraphs she speaks to you she only speaks of herself in true Khajiiti-style third person ONCE. What. The. Hell. It bothered me so much when she used "I" during that conversation.
Seriously, it's like in the entire two paragraphs she speaks to you she only speaks of herself in true Khajiiti-style third person ONCE. What. The. Hell. It bothered me so much when she used "I" during that conversation.
I'm not too far along the story and can't think of more of these occasions (but I'll probably find some since the game isn't perfect).
Part 2
Crafting.
I posted in the crafting forum not too long ago about how I was unable to play my Green-Pact-following Bosmer character properly simply because I couldn't craft a bow without gathering wood. ?!?! (Yes I know, it is a silly thing to be worried about but it bothers me! Even by crafting a bow in the Bosmer style and using bone, it still needs wood)
The solution to that thread was someone explaining that the Green Pact only applied to wood coming from Valenwood itself! That means I can gather wood in Auridon or other parts of Tamriel to make my bows and no Green Pact infringement would occur right? WRONG. Turns out that certain types of wood are not found ANYWHERE other than Valenwood (within AD of course). So, what? I can't gather non-Valenwood oak to make my bows? Now the only solution I had to being able to properly roleplay was crushed! Thanks a lot ZOS! *angry face*
In all seriousness though, why can't it be that high level resource be gather-able only to high level players and make them available in Auridon as well?? That would give the players who finished the area a reason to return and keep the area populated, as well as allowing picky lore-nuts like myself roleplay!
Other Crazy Suggestions
These are crazy specifically because they would be difficult, tedious, or impossible to implement, but I wanted to voice them anyway.
Again, returning to the Bosmer Green Pact issue, it would be nice if certain foods had some sort of label or something to indicate it was okay to eat it. Some foods are very clear, but the beverages are just nearly impossible to figure out (unless you get the recipe and check it yourself).
Similar to the note at the bottom saying "A common Aldmeri Dominion beverage", would it be too much to ask for certain foods and drinks to have "Green Pact safe" or something? It would definitely make the game so much more intriguing for crazy people like me.
Thank you so much for hearing me ramble on about lore (I know some of you simply think it's stupid). But hey, it bothers me and I want ZOS to keep The Elder Scroll's fantastic lore correct and up to date! And for future reference (as it was assumed way too much in my previous post), I am a she.
To show how much I care:
There's a Bosmer woman who you find in Grahtwood who tells you she eats vegetables and that was why she was living in isolation. Yeah well, she got stabbed 19 times. That clarify my feelings yet?
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shadowz081✭✭✭All games have lore that contradicts each other in one way or another. Be glad it isn't too big that they need to press the 'retcon' button...Can't say about the same about some of some franchises.0 -
Captainkrunch96✭✭✭About the whole Bosmer thing, you realize they can collect stuff as long as it's not alive right? A tree would count as being alive. Gathering logs on the floor would not.0 -
ShinChuck✭✭✭I'll give you some examples:
In Auridon, the clothier Bosmer at the marketplace. I forget his name, but the phrase is clearly burnt in my memory, says:
"If you're working in cloth or leather I am your man, what can I get you?"
I swear by Auri-El, ZOS. Isn't it obvious that this guy is a MER and not a man. I cringe every time I talk to that merchant.
Has there been any precedent of this in previous ES games? It's been a long time since I played Daggerfall-Skyrim, but isn't "man" the fairly prevailing way of referencing oneself? I know it's occasionally mentioned that they're technically "Mer", but I don't think this is the first instance by any means of a Mer referencing themselves as a "man"."It's morally wrong to suggest gameplay changes for an MMO."
...seriously, someone told me that once here. The things people will do to win their internet arguments!0 -
PHGDAL✭✭Captainkrunch96 wrote: »About the whole Bosmer thing, you realize they can collect stuff as long as it's not alive right? A tree would count as being alive. Gathering logs on the floor would not.
Yeah I remember this being one of the answers to the other post as well, I don't fully remember but there was a lot of lore-research involved and I think we ruled that even dead trees was bad. There's nothing wrong with using a bow made of wood so long as the bow was not made by a Bosmer.
I mean I love the game so far and it makes so many references to this, like the woodworking merchant on the ground floor of Elden Root. He says something along the lines of:
"No one makes a bow like the Bosmer. No really, no one. Everyone cuts down trees, it's insane!"
It really made me giggle, but deep inside I frowned at the fact that even to make Bosmer-styled bows in this game I needed to cut up wood :c
Edited by PHGDAL on April 12, 2014 1:43PM0 -
PHGDAL✭✭Has there been any precedent of this in previous ES games? It's been a long time since I played Daggerfall-Skyrim, but isn't "man" the fairly prevailing way of referencing oneself? I know it's occasionally mentioned that they're technically "Mer", but I don't think this is the first instance by any means of a Mer referencing themselves as a "man".
Er, perhaps? I haven't seen that in any place I've searched though. Could you post a link that shows that?
But this also does remind me of another thing: I know it is acceptable to interchange Altmer with High Elf and Bosmer with Wood Elf, but I'm pretty sure the majority of the elves would refer to each other in some form of Aldmeri. It's not a big issue but it does get annoying when no one, not even the elves themselves, use the Aldmeri word for it.
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ShinChuck✭✭✭Has there been any precedent of this in previous ES games? It's been a long time since I played Daggerfall-Skyrim, but isn't "man" the fairly prevailing way of referencing oneself? I know it's occasionally mentioned that they're technically "Mer", but I don't think this is the first instance by any means of a Mer referencing themselves as a "man".
Er, perhaps? I haven't seen that in any place I've searched though. Could you post a link that shows that?
I don't have any immediate links... as I said, it's been awhile! I know there have been general references to all the non-Daedra races as "man" (Mankar Cameron in Oblivion is an example I've found at a glance), but at a glance, nothing with Mer specifically referring to themselves as an individual as "man", so I could be wrong on what I said!
While we're on lore issues... does "Niether a lender OR a borrower be?" count? It's "nor", Bethesda. "Or" doesn't match the original quote, and even arguing Shakespeare isn't in-universe and so the "original quote" doesn't exist, it's still grammatically incorrect!
"It's morally wrong to suggest gameplay changes for an MMO."
...seriously, someone told me that once here. The things people will do to win their internet arguments!0 -
00Serval✭In regards to the spoiler khajiit, she is under stress and instinctively refers to herself in third person once, then corrects herself as she is obviously training herself not to speak in third person (likely to facilitate working with elves.) That and not every single khajiit/other race will have grown up in their homeland and followed their races 'typical' beliefs.
I take it you didn't meet the man/mer in Mistral on Khenarthi's Roost wearing khajiit armour and referring to himself in third person, I suspect you would have had an aneurysm if you did.1 -
Rahaya✭As far as I know, dead plant material is fine to use by the Green Pact even if it is frowned upon. The game is actually pretty consistent with this, having a Bosmer alchemist be sneered at by a traditionalist Bosmer because 'everyone knows alchemists use dead PLANTS' in Malabal Tor.
Fantasy stereotyping may be the 'norm' but it is still stereotyping. Not all Khajiit need to speak in third person for it to be within the lore, just most of them.0 -
Mishoniko✭✭✭Centurion Burriin Reaper's March uses first person speech. You can even bug her about it and she snarks right back:
Player: You speak Tamrielic like an Imperial, Centurion.
Centurion Burri: Hah! yes, Burri's mother would be very disappointed. Look, I've been a soldier for too long to care about how I talk. You want the proper cadence, go talk to a moon priest.1 -
MysticAura✭✭✭As for the green pact issue with Bosmer and wood.
The known conditions of the Green Pact are as follows:- Only meat-based products can be consumed.
- Prohibits the use of wood or other vegetable derivatives as building materials.
- Forbidden to harm trees and plant life for their own betterment.
- Forbidden to smoke anything of a vegetable nature.
So yeah, they really 'should' have them gathering bone from animals, and not wood. The re-code needed would be extensive though, so I don't see it happening anytime soon.Edited by MysticAura on April 13, 2014 1:26AM0 -
PHGDAL✭✭MysticAura wrote: »As for the green pact issue with Bosmer and wood.
The known conditions of the Green Pact are as follows:- Only meat-based products can be consumed.
- Prohibits the use of wood or other vegetable derivatives as building materials.
- Forbidden to harm trees and plant life for their own betterment.
- Forbidden to smoke anything of a vegetable nature.
So yeah, they really 'should' have them gathering bone from animals, and not wood. The re-code needed would be extensive though, so I don't see it happening anytime soon.
Oh of course, I never expected them to re-code anything. Originally, I was just trying to find a lore-friendly excuse to permit my crafting. In the other post people mentioned that I could gather from another land, like Auridon, and craft with a clean conscience. But that turned out to fail as Oak and Beech were only found in Grahtwood.
What I do now? I gather it from Valenwood and simply roleplay it that I imported it from somewhere else. That works, but deep inside I fear of my gildies noticing my cutting up oak of Valenwood (I do make it a big deal inside our RP guild xD).
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