Update 44 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of September 23:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 23
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 23
Feedback on ESO
I didn't find any place to really put feed back on the game, so I decided to put it here. This posts covers my experiences with ESO and opens up the floor to a discussion how to improve the game.
I also can't figure out how to add polls. Will someone reply or PM me if you have a good BBcode for one or know how to add one on this forum.
Please keep in mind these are my experiences and opinions and may or may not reflect the overall attitude of other players
Foreword
I personally bought this game because I saw some regarding PvP and enjoyed how fast it seemed. I dislike MMO's where people are sponges and can take dozens of hits. I picked up ESO with the hope that I would find an MMO with the deadliness and skill level of Age of Conan but the feel of a traditional Elder Scrolls game. To be honest the gameplay of combat itself gives me no problems whatsoever, however there is much more to the experience of ESO than the feel of combat alone.
I would appreciate constructive responses. A response such as "well I don't want ESO to turn into X mmo", or "if you don't like it go play something else", or "your just stupid, I have no problems whatsoever" etc... are NOT valid responses
Accounts and Forums
In my honest opinion, the only time a customer should have to check his email is to verify his account creation. On tamrielfoundry, one of the bigger forums for Elder Scrolls games, people have expressed their concern for how not-user-friendly it is to create a forum account on the ESO online official forums. It pretty much feels like the buddy press plugin for wordpress, or some other "easy paste and go" forum.
If you are reading this and are having problems creating your forum account you need to check your email. It will have a link that will take you to the create a forum account page with your "invitation code" already plugged in.
Clicking the create an account for the forum without following the link in your email is pretty much worthless. There is quite literally no point in having that button if you only get your code from a link.
Also having forums organized so that it shows the appropriate amount of open discussions in each section (it shows 0 on most even though this is untrue). Please also take out the German Forums for English players vice-versa as the Germans probably want just German Forums.
Add a Feedback Section please.
Customer Service
When the launcher FIRST told me to redeem my free game time, I went and followed the supposedly "simple" instructions by logging into my account and selecting payment method. It proceeded to charge my card even though I was under the impression that the first month was free. The amount total the screen showed me when I purchased the first month even showed up as $0.00. It took almost a week before the amount was refunded. I never got an email saying they refunded either. Just a copy and paste response that was non-applicable to one of my two tickets. Yes they actually only responded to one ticket.
AI
MMOs in general have never really been known for having good AI. I actually really can't think of an MMO that has had what I would call astounding AI. What most MMOs have though is AI that is better than what the current ESO has. All to often AI in ESO will go into existential crisis in the middle of combat and just sit there with an idle animation while doing absolutely nothing. This is a real immersion breaker.
Not only can the AI not pick targets worth ***, but the aggro system is not well defined at all. It would be nice if intended groups of AI were grouped together so they could respond to threats intelligently. You could build a function that includes an algorithm that takes into accounts the type of AI in the group "Caster, Healer, DPS(burst or sustain), Tank, CC" and then weighs them against the group of attacking players to then choose the best course of action for the fight. You could also take into account variables such as health, mana, stamina of both groups, alive vs dead players of both groups, positioning, etc.. You could even have the AI start responding to the players play style. For example if a player likes to spam power attacks with a two hander, an AI who notices one of the players in the group using CCs alot might save his CC for that player.
Also the aggro range is extremely short. I can be killing some dude while his buddy a few feet away picks his nose. This creates a situation where going through zones and dungeons allows for easier than intended skirmishes. If a portion of the zone or dungeon is meant to be an X amount of AI vs the group, it becomes too easy for players to aggro specific AI away from the tight nit group of AI pals with candy and turn the skirmish into X-2 or 3 vs the group. Having AI groups as said above could fix this.
Also it would be nice to have AI attempt to dodge, block, and reposition themselves to avoid player attacks as a player would against AI attacks.
Please improve the AI by
- Keeping them active so they are always acting
- Choose targets with a smarter algorithm, or actually put in an algorithm
- Aggro from farther distances
- Have AI attempt to move out of AOE, block attacks, or dodge roll as a player does
I am not an expert on MMOs and messing with code for them since MMOs aren't really a type of game that allows modding or user design. However I have worked with code for all the Blizzard games as well as the Arma series of games. If the community can make game re-defining code for the AI in these games, I see no reason people such as yourselves who code for a living can't do the same. I know more complex code doesn't tend to impact the performance of Blizzard games, however it does in ARMA if you do not have a dedicated client "headless client" to process the calculations for the server; so maybe this is the case, that having loads of players in a zone mixed with these calculations would create performance issues. My response is to instance the PvE more in this case. PvE doesn't require the massive amounts of on-screen players that PvP does.
PvE Content
I have actually enjoyed the quests so far. Everything is voice acted. It's super fun. The only thing I wish is that you didn't have to level 3 characters to max to enjoy all the PvE content available. Really unless you want to re-roll another race, you are exploring only 1/3 of the map. I would like to see the ability to quest in other races zones. It's harder to play with friends when it's no longer "Good guy faction or bad guy faction?" and now DC? EP? AD? Otherwise, PvE looks great and the new Craglorn stuff looks fun fun!
Also it would be cool to add Arenas to the game. Not only PvP Arenas, but gladitorial PvE arenas would actually be way cool!
PvP
The Alliance War PvP in Cyrodill is fun, but it's pretty much just a zerg fest.
I feel as if there is no point to how you build your character for PvP; very rarely will you actually get to fight either solo or with your small group vs another solo or small group of at least similar ratios enough to really have your build count. For the most part it seems the best bet is to spam HP so you survive longer, or spam Magicka and get AO spells and play a game of "avoid the red circles".
Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the war aspect of the game, but it mostly feels like a jumbled mess. With the lack of speach bubbles above peoples head "is there a way to turn this on? does it exist?" the only chat that really matters is group chat. Getting a group is ridiculous though, the Alliance War group finder does a *** job of grouping near players, and so people resort to things such as typing "press 42 for to defend Nikkel" into chat.
Also the lack of Open world PvP sucks. There is a different mood when In Cyrodill vs normal open world PvP. Let players choose between PvE realms and PvP. Questing with the possibility of getting ganked by bandits is much different than going into a zone where a wild band of grazing Ebon Heart Packateers might eat you over the crest of any hill. Does anyone other than me miss the older days of WoW (i haven't played in years so maybe it's still like this?) where people would go from Capitol City to Capitol City like a town cryer shouting "Large Alliance group outside of Thunder Bluff, come defend!".
Also, the ability to level form 10 to V1 by PvP as fast (not faster, just the same) should become available. Zenimax loves to say that ESO is about "playing your way". Well the way of many players is PvP.
PvP Arenas and Dueling Areans. The number one thing any PvP player wants to do is test his skills against a solo player or equal group of opposing players in a fair fight. Nuff' said. PvPers love doing this for hours and would gladly pay you $15 a month to do so.
I would love to see these added to the game...
- Arenas
- PvP and PvE servers.
- Ability to level in PvP with the same speed as PvE (not faster, not slower).
Random Game Design Stuff
Make it so you can respect a certain number of Attributes or Skills rather than completely to completely respec.
There are tons of options already, but adding one or two more skills to each skill line would be cool. This is completely a personal thing, but I am a skill ***. A game built around being able to play how you want should have "the skies the limit" on options for building your character. I'm someone who looks at GW1's skill list and smiles.
Speach Bubbles
Edited by LialMcFlynn on April 10, 2014 2:49AM I also can't figure out how to add polls. Will someone reply or PM me if you have a good BBcode for one or know how to add one on this forum.
Please keep in mind these are my experiences and opinions and may or may not reflect the overall attitude of other players
Foreword
I personally bought this game because I saw some regarding PvP and enjoyed how fast it seemed. I dislike MMO's where people are sponges and can take dozens of hits. I picked up ESO with the hope that I would find an MMO with the deadliness and skill level of Age of Conan but the feel of a traditional Elder Scrolls game. To be honest the gameplay of combat itself gives me no problems whatsoever, however there is much more to the experience of ESO than the feel of combat alone.
I would appreciate constructive responses. A response such as "well I don't want ESO to turn into X mmo", or "if you don't like it go play something else", or "your just stupid, I have no problems whatsoever" etc... are NOT valid responses
Accounts and Forums
In my honest opinion, the only time a customer should have to check his email is to verify his account creation. On tamrielfoundry, one of the bigger forums for Elder Scrolls games, people have expressed their concern for how not-user-friendly it is to create a forum account on the ESO online official forums. It pretty much feels like the buddy press plugin for wordpress, or some other "easy paste and go" forum.
If you are reading this and are having problems creating your forum account you need to check your email. It will have a link that will take you to the create a forum account page with your "invitation code" already plugged in.
Clicking the create an account for the forum without following the link in your email is pretty much worthless. There is quite literally no point in having that button if you only get your code from a link.
Also having forums organized so that it shows the appropriate amount of open discussions in each section (it shows 0 on most even though this is untrue). Please also take out the German Forums for English players vice-versa as the Germans probably want just German Forums.
Add a Feedback Section please.
Customer Service
When the launcher FIRST told me to redeem my free game time, I went and followed the supposedly "simple" instructions by logging into my account and selecting payment method. It proceeded to charge my card even though I was under the impression that the first month was free. The amount total the screen showed me when I purchased the first month even showed up as $0.00. It took almost a week before the amount was refunded. I never got an email saying they refunded either. Just a copy and paste response that was non-applicable to one of my two tickets. Yes they actually only responded to one ticket.
AI
MMOs in general have never really been known for having good AI. I actually really can't think of an MMO that has had what I would call astounding AI. What most MMOs have though is AI that is better than what the current ESO has. All to often AI in ESO will go into existential crisis in the middle of combat and just sit there with an idle animation while doing absolutely nothing. This is a real immersion breaker.
Not only can the AI not pick targets worth ***, but the aggro system is not well defined at all. It would be nice if intended groups of AI were grouped together so they could respond to threats intelligently. You could build a function that includes an algorithm that takes into accounts the type of AI in the group "Caster, Healer, DPS(burst or sustain), Tank, CC" and then weighs them against the group of attacking players to then choose the best course of action for the fight. You could also take into account variables such as health, mana, stamina of both groups, alive vs dead players of both groups, positioning, etc.. You could even have the AI start responding to the players play style. For example if a player likes to spam power attacks with a two hander, an AI who notices one of the players in the group using CCs alot might save his CC for that player.
Also the aggro range is extremely short. I can be killing some dude while his buddy a few feet away picks his nose. This creates a situation where going through zones and dungeons allows for easier than intended skirmishes. If a portion of the zone or dungeon is meant to be an X amount of AI vs the group, it becomes too easy for players to aggro specific AI away from the tight nit group of AI pals with candy and turn the skirmish into X-2 or 3 vs the group. Having AI groups as said above could fix this.
Also it would be nice to have AI attempt to dodge, block, and reposition themselves to avoid player attacks as a player would against AI attacks.
Please improve the AI by
- Keeping them active so they are always acting
- Choose targets with a smarter algorithm, or actually put in an algorithm
- Aggro from farther distances
- Have AI attempt to move out of AOE, block attacks, or dodge roll as a player does
I am not an expert on MMOs and messing with code for them since MMOs aren't really a type of game that allows modding or user design. However I have worked with code for all the Blizzard games as well as the Arma series of games. If the community can make game re-defining code for the AI in these games, I see no reason people such as yourselves who code for a living can't do the same. I know more complex code doesn't tend to impact the performance of Blizzard games, however it does in ARMA if you do not have a dedicated client "headless client" to process the calculations for the server; so maybe this is the case, that having loads of players in a zone mixed with these calculations would create performance issues. My response is to instance the PvE more in this case. PvE doesn't require the massive amounts of on-screen players that PvP does.
PvE Content
I have actually enjoyed the quests so far. Everything is voice acted. It's super fun. The only thing I wish is that you didn't have to level 3 characters to max to enjoy all the PvE content available. Really unless you want to re-roll another race, you are exploring only 1/3 of the map. I would like to see the ability to quest in other races zones. It's harder to play with friends when it's no longer "Good guy faction or bad guy faction?" and now DC? EP? AD? Otherwise, PvE looks great and the new Craglorn stuff looks fun fun!
Also it would be cool to add Arenas to the game. Not only PvP Arenas, but gladitorial PvE arenas would actually be way cool!
PvP
The Alliance War PvP in Cyrodill is fun, but it's pretty much just a zerg fest.
I feel as if there is no point to how you build your character for PvP; very rarely will you actually get to fight either solo or with your small group vs another solo or small group of at least similar ratios enough to really have your build count. For the most part it seems the best bet is to spam HP so you survive longer, or spam Magicka and get AO spells and play a game of "avoid the red circles".
Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the war aspect of the game, but it mostly feels like a jumbled mess. With the lack of speach bubbles above peoples head "is there a way to turn this on? does it exist?" the only chat that really matters is group chat. Getting a group is ridiculous though, the Alliance War group finder does a *** job of grouping near players, and so people resort to things such as typing "press 42 for to defend Nikkel" into chat.
Also the lack of Open world PvP sucks. There is a different mood when In Cyrodill vs normal open world PvP. Let players choose between PvE realms and PvP. Questing with the possibility of getting ganked by bandits is much different than going into a zone where a wild band of grazing Ebon Heart Packateers might eat you over the crest of any hill. Does anyone other than me miss the older days of WoW (i haven't played in years so maybe it's still like this?) where people would go from Capitol City to Capitol City like a town cryer shouting "Large Alliance group outside of Thunder Bluff, come defend!".
Also, the ability to level form 10 to V1 by PvP as fast (not faster, just the same) should become available. Zenimax loves to say that ESO is about "playing your way". Well the way of many players is PvP.
PvP Arenas and Dueling Areans. The number one thing any PvP player wants to do is test his skills against a solo player or equal group of opposing players in a fair fight. Nuff' said. PvPers love doing this for hours and would gladly pay you $15 a month to do so.
I would love to see these added to the game...
- Arenas
- PvP and PvE servers.
- Ability to level in PvP with the same speed as PvE (not faster, not slower).
Random Game Design Stuff
Make it so you can respect a certain number of Attributes or Skills rather than completely to completely respec.
There are tons of options already, but adding one or two more skills to each skill line would be cool. This is completely a personal thing, but I am a skill ***. A game built around being able to play how you want should have "the skies the limit" on options for building your character. I'm someone who looks at GW1's skill list and smiles.
Speach Bubbles
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You have an in-game option for this: /feedback.
This forum is for new player questions and assistance.----
Murray?1 -
Sweet thank you! I have just submitted 7 feedbacks =D. Though I believe having this on the forum will allow combined feedback. I want to see what other players think as well.0
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Vikova✭✭✭✭✭LialMcFlynn wrote: »Sweet thank you! I have just submitted 7 feedbacks =D. Though I believe having this on the forum will allow combined feedback. I want to see what other players think as well.
Props for using the feedback feature. Not enough people do.
And gods bless you for attempting a post that long, I am curious now how many people will actually read the whole thing.2 -
COmpletely agree with you on pvp...kinda why i have stopped playing... i really like the game...but this 'pvp' is essentially lets see who can aoe... there is no skill in it really.0
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Vikova✭✭✭✭✭Daenerys_Stormborn wrote: »COmpletely agree with you on pvp...kinda why i have stopped playing... i really like the game...but this 'pvp' is essentially lets see who can aoe... there is no skill in it really.
The skill is in large group organization. Too many PvPers equate skill with "1v1 ability" which is entirely silly.Edited by Vikova on April 10, 2014 2:46PM2 -
Shimond✭✭✭✭One comment - you have the PVE part misunderstood. You can in fact see all the quest content on one character. You're just limited to your home faction until 50.1 -
One comment - you have the PVE part misunderstood. You can in fact see all the quest content on one character. You're just limited to your home faction until 50.
Oh sweet! I had no idea. I guess my feedback for this part now is that they should make this more known for people. Also, this is a great excuse to include world PvP.
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Daenerys_Stormborn wrote: »COmpletely agree with you on pvp...kinda why i have stopped playing... i really like the game...but this 'pvp' is essentially lets see who can aoe... there is no skill in it really.
The skill is in large group organization. Too many PvPers equate skill with "1v1 ability" which is entirely silly.
Well technically there is skill in multiple aspects of the game. I think 1v1 skill is just as skillful in games as group skill. A good example of this is Starcraft and League. Both games by most would be considered the top ESports games. One is a 1v1 game, one is a team game. I don't think the number of people on any side in a given game really determines whether there is skill.
Rather I think for something to take skill it must have a complex problem with multiple responses of which a skilled player is able to determine responses with a higher success rate for their given goals within the problem.
The more problems within a given situation that one has to deal with increases the skill for that situation; on the other hand the less problems within a situation lowers the skill. Also the more problems within a situation that the player is unable to deal with or deals with in a lesser capacity regardless of his responses lowers the skill for that situation; the less problems within a situation that a player is unable to deal with or deals with in a lesser capacity regardless of his responses increases the skill for that situation.
I think this above paragraph is a very logical definition for skill that could at least partially be accepted by most that read it. So how does this relate to 1v1 and group. Well in group combat, when a group gets too big, you run into a situation where no matter how you act within combat you can pretty much vanish into oblivion from a zerg who decides you should be dead. In 1v1, while you cannot necessarily vanish into oblivion, there are chances you can fight a build that happens to be a hard counter to your build. While you will live longer than being hit by 50 projectiles, fighting a hard counter will in the same way create a situation where no matter how you respond you are unable to deal with the other player with enough wiggle room to really merit a skillful challenge.
ENTER ARENAS
When you have groups of 2,3, 5, and 10. You create a situation where there usually isn't enough damage to wipe out your entire team, which now embodies the entity that unleashes it's skill, in the same way a zerg of 50 can to a couple guys. Also since you are playing a team mate, there is a smaller chance of being forced to fight a hardcounter to your build should one present itself. If you are unable to deal with a given player, chances are someone on your team is able to.
TL;DR - 1v1 and Zerg groups CAN have skill in them, but the true skill lies in organized small skirmishes of equal teams. Also while hardcounters can make 1v1 fun, it tends to at least be more skillful than mass zerg.0 -
Alyrn_Grey✭✭✭So in answer to your question you should use /feedback to submit things like this rather than posting to the ask for help as a new player forum.0 -
PhunnySoul ShrivenI was reading through your response but I really couldn't get beyond the AI section. I would say that the AI for friendly NPCs isn't great, but the enemy AI is pretty damn fantastic. This is basing it in comparison to other games. An example of this is when I kill mobs in groups. The mobs will not just target one player unless that player forces them to, i.e dealing lots of damage or taunting. This especially makes the role of a healer very refreshing, and it doesn't let the DPS faceroll while the tank soaks up all the damage.0
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Zerl✭✭✭Props on writing that text mountain, but I have to say that I completely disagree with your opinion on PvP in TESO.
Cyrodill IS OWPvP, and you are the 1st person I have seen not to refer to it as such.
The whole concept on split the Server pretty much goes against the entire foundations and design of the game. People can choose whether or not they wish to do PvP or PvE and what Zeni has done is the best compromise.
You can have small scale engagements, I have had many 1v1 and other small group battles whilst playing in Cyrodil. If you're going to act like a sheep and follow a Zerg around then that isn't a fault of the game to be brutally honest.0 -
Alyrn_Grey wrote: »So in answer to your question you should use /feedback to submit things like this rather than posting to the ask for help as a new player forum.
The reason I am posting in this forum is because Zenimax does not have a proper forum for feedback on the game. I have used /feedback , but I feel that proper feedback for any game is a community effort. If the mods think that this post belongs in some other applicable forums, then they will move it there. If they believe that no forum currently exists for combined player feedback, then they will remove it. Until then, if we care enough to even jump through the hoops of making a forum account, let's work together to create some good feedback so we get the best Elder Scrolls game we can!I was reading through your response but I really couldn't get beyond the AI section. I would say that the AI for friendly NPCs isn't great, but the enemy AI is pretty damn fantastic. This is basing it in comparison to other games. An example of this is when I kill mobs in groups. The mobs will not just target one player unless that player forces them to, i.e dealing lots of damage or taunting. This especially makes the role of a healer very refreshing, and it doesn't let the DPS faceroll while the tank soaks up all the damage.
Phunny, thank you for contributing something useful! You are correct. They will not target one player unless forced too.
Though I disagree with the AI being fantastic. I wouldn't consider this amazing AI. I would rather see AI have unique group fighting tactics. Imagine running into a dungeon and having one five AI in a group stun your healer while the other 4 power attack that healer. Or imagine the DPS in that AI group spreading their damage out to force healer to heal multiple people then ,without warning or forced aggro by the players, spontaneously switch targets to drop powerful skills to spike one of the players down. Imagine the AI blocking literally as much as players do, or dodge rolling as much as players do. Currently, I haven't found a situation where DPS Can't face roll mobs.
It may be that I am spoiled by the AI of other games and an understanding of how to script AI for games that allow modding. As stated in the AI section, I have no idea how they designed the AI in this game, but I do know that the coding part of better AI shouldn't be that hard in theory. The problem usually comes with running complex calculations for the shitloads of AI that could be in combat in an instanced area. Or maybe the problem is something else entirely. Eitherway, asking for an advanced AI isn't a bad thing. If Zenimax can do it, and feel it is feasible to their goals for the game and the enjoyment of the players, hopefully they add it in!Props on writing that text mountain, but I have to say that I completely disagree with your opinion on PvP in TESO.
Cyrodill IS OWPvP, and you are the 1st person I have seen not to refer to it as such.
The whole concept on split the Server pretty much goes against the entire foundations and design of the game. People can choose whether or not they wish to do PvP or PvE and what Zeni has done is the best compromise.
You can have small scale engagements, I have had many 1v1 and other small group battles whilst playing in Cyrodil. If you're going to act like a sheep and follow a Zerg around then that isn't a fault of the game to be brutally honest.
Thank you. I guess I always read fast so it didn't seem like a mountain to me. Also thank you for contributing!
I guess you are right. Most consider Cyrodill OWPvP. To me though it is not. To me Cyrodill is just an insanely large battleground where 99% of the interaction with the game is through PvP. My definition of OWPvP is one where interaction with the game is spread evenly throughout all the features of the game including impromptu PvP engagements.
I do not see how the splitting of servers into PvE and PvP would go against the concept of players playing how they want. A PvE server would, for example, be how it is now, players would not be able to kill other players unless in Cyrodill. A PvP server would be the opposite. You are able to quest in all 3 factions (apparently you actually already can, just at VR1?) and kill all players of other factions on sight. Players would just choose their poison and thereby adopting the design of the game for players to play how they want exactly as is!
You are right, I have seen many 1v1 engagements and small group battles in Cyrodill, but the problem is you have to look for them. It would be nice to que up to Arenas and have my entire session of gaming be purely having these small engagements. As for being a sheep and following the zerg, I agree with you completely. I usually don't follow the zerg at all. I also don't help in the capture of many objectives at all either. Arenas would provide a clear objective that doesn't include a zerg.Can any mod remove this wall of text before my browser implodes? Off Topic!
I am sorry this WoT is making your browser explode. I currently use google chrome and my browser is not exploding. I highly suggest it. Though it takes up plenty of resources, it's a fast browser.
Apparently this would be off topic anywhere in the forums. I didn't really go over this above in the response to people saying /feedback. When I was using /feedback the options for what the type of feedback was were mostly geared around game bugs and things being broken. There really wasn't a clear option for a type of feedback being based around feedback on the design, enjoyment, and suggestions for the game. Pretty much every other game has this option. So until a mod decides that this either belongs in a forum geared more uniform to this topic, or that feedback isn't welcome on the forums at all, I will keep posting.
While I may have disagreed with some, I think I have been posting politely and with good basis so far. I would also like to say that, other than the length, my posts are easily readable and the concepts in my sentences backed up by proper explanation that can be readily understood by anyone willing to try.
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Seraseth✭✭✭✭I do wish that aside from the full skill respec option there was also an individual skill morph reset. Make it cost 300g as opposed to the base 100/skill, but allow a person who just wants to change how they morphed 1 skill to be able to swap it out without having to redo 50 skill points.1 -
I do wish that aside from the full skill respec option there was also an individual skill morph reset. Make it cost 300g as opposed to the base 100/skill, but allow a person who just wants to change how they morphed 1 skill to be able to swap it out without having to redo 50 skill points.
+10