sorceror pet farming abuse

crislevin

camping in general area should not be banned, farming is legit in MMO.

However, camping in quest area and prevent other people from continuing quest line should be fixed. Either by banning the camping around these area, or turning the questline into solo only.

Kyosji

I take it personal because on more than one occasion some jerk decided to report me as a bot. It is never a fun experience having to talk to a GM about this stuff to prove innocence because some kid was annoyed or butthurt. No one ever actually takes the time to ASK if you're a bot, they just report you a few times and get others around you to report you. This game has a horrible chat system, which requires me to turn off zone chat, and with add-ons using your chat bar as well, it makes it VERY hard to see world chat anyways. At least with whispers it stands out, but again, people don't use this before reporting you. That's why I strongly hope they start enforcing punishments against players, like the ones chatting in here, that report people unjustly.

As for your example, sure that's fine and dandy, but if the same cop keeps coming by and arresting me (I'm changing your example a bit, as players don't usually ask 'what's going on', they just 'arrest you' so you have to prove your innocence to the 'judge'), that becomes harassment, and that police officer would have to be punished for that.

Kyosji

crislevin wrote: »

camping in general area should not be banned, farming is legit in MMO.

However, camping in quest area and prevent other people from continuing quest line should be fixed. Either by banning the camping around these area, or turning the questline into solo only.

Then they need to make it instanced if they are going to make it a quest that is required to continue. The bosses we are talking about are side quests, or hidden quests that you have to just experience to even know it WAS a quest to begin with. Like any other MMO with a world spawned mob, you have to fight for the chance in credit. What people aren't grasping in this game is that it's set up so you only have to hit it once to gain credit. if you aren't even hitting it, that's more on your end of fault then the people farming, as this game has free attack mode. you can sit at the spawn point and constantly attack the nothingness till the boss spawns. You're guaranteed a hit at that moment, and with that hit, credit. People are failing to post this information because they are trying to make their point stand out over what is really happening.

Gohlar

This method of farming has nothing to do with sorc pets. Any class can, and does, do this. Relying on the pets is probably a bad way to do it I imagine.

Attorneyatlawl

Kyosji wrote: »

So, if i'm farming a boss, which by the way is completely LEGAL to do as it is the basis of every MMORPG, and I REALLY have to go take a dump and go AFK to do it, you are going to report me for being a bot? I'd like you to do that, I really would, because falsely reporting enough players will wind your account suspended.

If the character ISN'T MOVING, nor is he actually attacking the target, he's not botting. If his pets are doing the attacking, that's not the players fault as ZOE has deemed the pet system to not need any agro/passive/defensive controls.

People like you are the reason I had a visit by an in-game GM while I was farming a boss for soul gems. Sure, I wasn't doing anything wrong, but I was put in a situation where I could have been wrongly banned JUST because some overly sensitive MMORPG beginner was a bit hurt in the rear end.

If a person is actually botting, sure, ban them. If a person is actively exploiting a system for quick leveling or gaining items they shouldnt be able to, sure, suspend their account for a while. If a person is playing the system that ZOE gave them in a way that you don't like? Tough kittens for you, mate. That's the way they created the game. If you don't like it, deal with it.

If you're one of those people that get upset that there are tons of people camping a boss, again, tough kittens. EVERY MMORPG has this. It's a part of the game. Deal with it.

Finally some sense in this thread, a little blunt but completely right.

Attorneyatlawl

Hawke wrote: »

@kyosji You are taking all of this way too personal. If you are doing something that has questionable behavoir, then yes, expect someone to call the authorities, when they get there and talk with you, "ok, all a misunderstanding" and move on.

I expect no different if I am standing outside my apartment building in the middle of the night, just hanging out there, looking like I need to be somewhere else. If a police officer came up on me and said "what is going on?" and I tell him I am waiting for my wife to hurry up and we are late to the opera, no worries. I am happy someone called the police.

Just like you should be happy someone submitted a report on you and your behavoir, so when Zenimax GM comes up and says "What's going on here" and you respond that you are farming, then no harm no foul.

Most people don't like being falsely accused of crimes or breaking rules. Just saying.

SuperScrubby

I farm bosses for soulstones as well as drops that I can break down to level up my crafting. Also for the blue item they drop that I can either a) use myself, b) break down for tempers, or c) send to a friend.

I see nothing wrong with farming a boss and from what I saw last night some of the boss spawns have been tweaked so they don't spawn every 30 seconds like before.

Don't know if that's a bug or a ninja patch that the devs did. Either way I don't like ninja patches and I don't like whiners saying that I can't farm a boss for drops. MMO basics and all it takes is like 1 good hit to get credit. That's it. So people trying to claim that they can't get to the boss in time, if you can get a gold to drop, you get credit. So stop trying to hide under the guise that you're not able to complete content since that's really not the case. It's that you don't have the skills on your bar for whatever reason to do enough damage to farm and get gear drops yourself.

Vikova

driosketch wrote: »

From what little I've seen, I wouldn't think pets would be effective for something like this.

There's no way they would be. If the OP actually saw what is claimed, they weren't afk. As someone else said, all those pets would not automatically attack the spawned mob.

Lynx7386

Point here is that it isnt hard to tell when someone us harmlessly farming vs abusing mechanics to afk farm. If youre playing legit then you have nothing to worry about and the complaints brought up here do not apply to you. Getting all butthurt and putting on a trollish drama show is just going to make the rest of us think that you have something to hide

Kyosji

Something to hide when I just explained my dealings with a GM because of people falsely reporting me? Simply put, it becomes harassing after a while.

Lamprey

Lynx7386 wrote: »

On top of this, they're ruining immersion and content for other players who are unable to get credit for completing the dungeon, and are unable to loot due to crowding.

1. Question for you: Do you turn off your chat window? If not, them please do not use the immersion argument. Honestly, the whole immersion argument is such a poor one regardless of if you disabled your chat window. There is virtually no immersion with all the dipsticks running around and 99% of the content being public.
2. How are people not able to get loot? You hit the mob and you get credit for the kill. Pretty simple.

In short, it's time to put on your big boy pants, stop worrying about others and move on.

Anthony45122

I'm a sorcerer and other classes have an advantage over us in tagging and killing public dungeon bosses quickly. 1 NB was able to kill the boss at the end of a public dungeon quick enough that most players were lucky to get 1 ability, auto-attack, etc. in. The pets are not there to be a huge source of damage. They are there to grab aggro for you, heal you, restore magicka, etc. With my minions out I'm able to kite bosses around and kill them solo that others might not be able to but this takes a long time and is the exact opposite of nuking a boss.
As to the comments about only needing 1 attack to tag a boss, while this is true for the achievement it is not true about loot. If you attack the boss with 1 auto-attack and that's it chances are you will not receive any loot. By camping the boss you are possibly preventing others from getting any loot from that boss. Why should you get to sit there and farm and get a ton of loot while someone that just wants to kill it once for loot and move on is unable to? I've heard that people have been banned already for doing this, I am not going to research more into it or look for a specific spot in the ToS that states it but I'm not going to do it for two reasons. There's no reason to impede others getting loot and risk getting banned so you can camp that boss and get more loot, if you want to do that, go farm the group dungeons that are instanced.

tallenn

Lynx7386 wrote: »

When I get home from work ill post a screenshot of whats going on and let you judge for yourselves. The instance i screened had at least 5 sorcs, each with one clannfear out, stacked on top of a boss. Myself and my brother were there for probably 5-10 minutes to complete the dungeon and not once did any of those sorcs attack or move. This was clearly a case of abusing game mechanics and not simple afking or active mob farming.

I'm calling BS. Sorc pets don't attack unless the sorc attacks. So, if they were just standing there afk, then they weren't farming anything.

Vikova

There have been enough people that have called out the OP's story as either a gross exaggeration, lie, or just wasn't paying attention. Time to let the thread drop.

Lynx7386

Called out, sure.

http://i58.tinypic.com/34j3g2e.jpg

Here's the screenshot, you can clearly see 8 summons (7 clannfears and one scamp) around the boss spawn.

My brother and I were grouped here, and stood around for roughly 5-10 minutes. Not a single sorceror moved or did anything to indicate that they were not afk.

Lynx7386

To add to that last post, we were talking in local chat. None of those sorcs were responding - everyone else around was, and they were complaining about the 'farming' as well.

Hawke

That is awesome!

Kyosji

So. I tested this out yesterday with that bug boss. none of my pets would attack it if I was AFK sorting my inventory or mailing off items. As for loot. I threw out my insta cast once or my destruction staff light hit once and was able to get loot. At this point I'm calling most of the people in here full of it, because what they are describing I'm not seeing. Also, even if they were botting, their summons would not be attacking unless their summoners are in attack mode, which from that image I am not seeing. This is telling me one of 2 things. 1 is that they may be afk and not actually attacking. They are probably misreading the pets and assuming they are attacking. 2, the boss attacked their character and you saw the summons attacking, which do not deal enough damage by themselves, unless they are in a group with 3 other summoners. If they are in a group and they are attacked, I CAN see all the summons attacking the boss at once doing decent damage to it, however, this would throw out your notion that you cannot attack it and get loot, as doing it this way is a much slower kill than if the summoners were actively attacking.

thjudgeman1142ub17_ESO

RakeWorm wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

From what little I've seen, I wouldn't think pets would be effective for something like this.

There's no way they would be. If the OP actually saw what is claimed, they weren't afk. As someone else said, all those pets would not automatically attack the spawned mob.

Thus... bots... I've seen this in starter dungeons and beyond with ABC like names on 4 or 5 guys who start to attack the exact second (or sometimes even a second before) the boss or target pops up... kinda sad really. The only way this is possible is through 3rd party programs... sit in any group and try to do this and it looks much different due to human error.

Found a great spot to farm for hide and lvl 15-19 items but I do it manually... sure it could *** some off but I always invite others to join in if they want since one hit is all it takes so everyone wins and since there is no AH it does not matter...

Bhakura

I do it too, im not a sorcerer nor a botter, but when i visit a dungeon i camp the boss untill backpack is filled up. Only taking the soulgems, potions and the blue item if it drops, which means im there for quite awhile.
Its a great way to spice your wallet with gold and your bank with craft mats, if something needs to change its not pets or whichever skill used, its the nonstop flow of treasures on the boss, not that im complaining, ut truth be told, its killing the market to sell blues, everyone can get tons of them

Vikova

thjudgeman1142ub17_ESO wrote: »

Thus... bots... I've seen this in starter dungeons and beyond with ABC like names on 4 or 5 guys who start to attack the exact second (or sometimes even a second before) the boss or target pops up... kinda sad really. The only way this is possible is through 3rd party programs... sit in any group and try to do this and it looks much different due to human error.

Found a great spot to farm for hide and lvl 15-19 items but I do it manually... sure it could *** some off but I always invite others to join in if they want since one hit is all it takes so everyone wins and since there is no AH it does not matter...

If you really think someone is botting, all you can do is report them and force them to defend themselves. But my comment was responding to the person who claimed the pets were attacking on their own without the player character doing so - this doesn't happen. Even with a bot, the player character would have to attack before the pet would.

zaria

Elvikun wrote: »

Honestly, your problem is odd and your solution is extremely biased.

The problem is odd because the pets won't attack untill the sorcerer attacks or gets attacked, if as you say (And I don't believe you, to be honest) there is 10 sorcerers with 20 pets, only one will get attacked. If noone else attacks, well, you see the problem there. Chances are they might not be AFK.

As for your solution, I might just as well say DK pull chain is annoying as it pulls mobs away from people and disturbs gameplay. It should be removed and replaced with something else. Oh, also all knockback skills.

Report people you believe to be bots, but don't add "Oh and I don!t like X, so it should be removed." to that.

Think the pet might draw agro, as my clanfear regularly end up fighting mobs I pass, however it might be that the mob start to react and the clanfear attacks.

Anyway the clanfear don't do much damage, it would be hopeless against a dungeon boss, it has never been able to kill anything by itself even things who is 5 levels below and will die if facing even harder normal monsters.

Yes if you had an bunch of them it might work, however you still face the problem that the boss kills some of them.

drakuel1ub17_ESO

Farming is a indicator of something wrong with the game mechanic. The game should flow and keep players flowing with it. I care less if it is bot's or just a player or group there farming the hell out of it, it is bad for the game.

First of all soul gems should never be that easy to obtain, all that did was break your entire economy system on soul gems and break that whole skill line. Why waste points in it, if all I have to do is farm certain bosses.. So obvious that this is a game design issue, not players fault. You should award players for abusing your systems so you can fix them NOW!

Second asking players to do a one hit quest success is SAD! And all you supporting this are very selfish and bad for the game and community. Do you realize how dissatisfying it is to work your way through a quest and get to the end for the real challenge and meat of the story and bam less then a half sec finish, what a game killer.

Time and time again we have tried to list so many of these issues to the development team on their instancing/phasing issues and what the side effects of some of these issues bring, but here we are just another side effect that is abused and hurting others entertainment experience.

tallenn

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Called out, sure.

http://i58.tinypic.com/34j3g2e.jpg

Here's the screenshot, you can clearly see 8 summons (7 clannfears and one scamp) around the boss spawn.

My brother and I were grouped here, and stood around for roughly 5-10 minutes. Not a single sorceror moved or did anything to indicate that they were not afk.

What you have failed to show however, is that the pets are actually killing the boss with these players afk. As has been mentioned many times now, pets do not attack unless the sorc attacks. Thus, I'm still calling BS.

KerinKor

Kyosji wrote: »

If the character ISN'T MOVING, nor is he actually attacking the target, he's not botting.

No, indeed he's AFKing probably with a 'keep alive' tool, so he's just has reportable as a 'bot'.

KerinKor

tallenn wrote: »

As has been mentioned many times now, pets do not attack unless the sorc attacks. Thus, I'm still calling BS.

Not true, pets attack if their owner is aggroed, many is the time my pet has attacked a mob that's aggroed me while I'm running past, and bosses will aggro the PCs.

zaria

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Called out, sure.

http://i58.tinypic.com/34j3g2e.jpg

Here's the screenshot, you can clearly see 8 summons (7 clannfears and one scamp) around the boss spawn.

My brother and I were grouped here, and stood around for roughly 5-10 minutes. Not a single sorceror moved or did anything to indicate that they were not afk.

Yes and thanks now the next question is the level of the players who camped and the level of the boss who spawned, and if it was an real boss or something you could solo if good.

Anyway, assuming you was around the level of the quest and they was less than 10 level above you should get credit for kill, clanfear don't have much dps, their main purpose is tanking if you face multiple enemies so unless they outlevel the area a lot they will just help you

thjudgeman1142ub17_ESO

RakeWorm wrote: »

thjudgeman1142ub17_ESO wrote: »

Thus... bots... I've seen this in starter dungeons and beyond with ABC like names on 4 or 5 guys who start to attack the exact second (or sometimes even a second before) the boss or target pops up... kinda sad really. The only way this is possible is through 3rd party programs... sit in any group and try to do this and it looks much different due to human error.

Found a great spot to farm for hide and lvl 15-19 items but I do it manually... sure it could *** some off but I always invite others to join in if they want since one hit is all it takes so everyone wins and since there is no AH it does not matter...

If you really think someone is botting, all you can do is report them and force them to defend themselves. But my comment was responding to the person who claimed the pets were attacking on their own without the player character doing so - this doesn't happen. Even with a bot, the player character would have to attack before the pet would.

Agreed on all your points... sorry if I came across as contradicting you. Just used your post to kick off mine showing how they were likley bots in his example.

Vikova

drakuel1ub17_ESO wrote: »

Farming is a indicator of something wrong with the game mechanic.

This is hardly true. There is nothing wrong with farming as long as you aren't afk or botting.

Pyatra

Terminus wrote: »

Lets come up with a nice list of solutions that seem reasonable;

1. Make it so players can't loot enemies killed only by their familiars
2. Create diminishing returns if you kill a boss more than 3 times in 1 hour
3. Adjust the auto-logout timer so that afk players can no longer train

I've never heard of anything like that, but if they really are just standing there as their familiars kill enemies, this problem needs to be treated very seriously.

Actually.... I think just using #2 works if after kill 3 nothing drops at all.