Soft Caps need rethinking.

p.hurst1b16_ESO

I have lvl 15 DK tank build.

Armour cap is way too low. It should be something like a full 7 piece fine set hits the soft cap. The blues would go into overcharge.

If it does not get better then at endgame there will be no point to the heavy armour passives at all. With purple or better gear the armour skills will give nothing and same for the passives. What is the point of even having armour passives and skills in the game ?

Regen softcaps are as follows

Maj 23
Health 14 OVERCHARGED
Sta 23

Whaaat ? They should be the same !

This makes another heavy armour passive useless.

This is just a tank example.

KerinKor

No, setting the bar that high means the content becomes accessible only by the hardcore as Zenimax tune it assuming everyone is running around in full fine gear.

Right now it may be a tad low, 7 'fines' to cap is too high.

Shimond

I'm not sure if at max level now it's the same as in beta, but pretty much nobody wore full heavy armor because of the overcharge then. They'd always do 5 light/2 heavy. I don't agree with that either, if it's still working that way.

Vikova

It will adjust as you level.

And all MMOs go through balancing phases for endgame gear - this one will be no different. There's no reason to assume caps won't change in the future.

Thybrinena

I also think caps will be changed in the future because it does seem to be hurting those with heavy armor more than any others. However, I do agree with @Rakeworm that it does level out as you get higher level.

Shimond

There's also the possibility it's intended for you to suffer diminishing returns on some stats and to keep putting points in there anyway to continue getting whatever effect they provide. Diminishing returns in a lot of other games I've played hit you pretty early and yet people still put points in to continue getting increases (just smaller ones).

i.e. we (players) might be blowing overcharge out of proportion

Cepeza

p.hurst1b16_ESO wrote: »

I have lvl 15 DK tank build.

Armour cap is way too low.
...

No it is not. Level up to 25 then you will get the point why.

You are pushing your health with passives.

Vikova

Cepeza wrote: »

show previous quotes

p.hurst1b16_ESO wrote: »

I have lvl 15 DK tank build.

Armour cap is way too low.
...

No it is not. Level up to 25 then you will get the point why.

You are pushing your health with passives.

We are frustrated with armor cap. Not HP cap. Armor cap is indeed too low.

Cepeza

RakeWorm wrote: »

show previous quotes

Cepeza wrote: »

p.hurst1b16_ESO wrote: »

I have lvl 15 DK tank build.

Armour cap is way too low.
...

No it is not. Level up to 25 then you will get the point why.

You are pushing your health with passives.

We are frustrated with armor cap. Not HP cap. Armor cap is indeed too low.

I got that. I wanted to say that with increasing level the hp regen cap will increase more with each level up (more like exponential, not linear). But it will always stay less than M or S regen.

[EDIT] Although I have no idea how that is affectd by armor cap.

Vikova

Cepeza wrote: »

I got that. I wanted to say that with increasing level the hp regen cap will increase more with each level up (more like exponential, not linear).

Oh, yes. Gotcha.

Lazarus_Long

Remember that the overcharged stats are there for two purposes. First to left you see what other games do with out telling you. Second, to make you aware of the the fact that you are running an unbalanced build and as soon as you come up against a mob or player that can exploit your weak points you will go down.

Kolache

I think this is likely be tuned slightly, (soft soft caps raised, some lowered), but it'll probably be a better discussion after more people are higher level. Lower level balance as important too, but less important than balance at the level cap which should set the bar to work backwards from. TLDR; bump this topic again in a month or two, IMO

Nox_Aeterna

The problem is quite simple , the caps are low because ALL class should be able to get to them without huge problems , so that everyone can fill any role.

If you make the cap freaking high because classes X and Y can reach it too easily , then the other classes get in trouble.

p.hurst1b16_ESO

Ok so the armour (spellcheck needs to learn proper English lol) cap will lift as we level, fair enough.

But why does health regen go overcharged so early compared to maj and sta. This is just silly. They should be the same.

It still makes many passives and skills utterly useless until endgame so why make them accessible at low ranks.

Shimond

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

The problem is quite simple , the caps are low because ALL class should be able to get to them without huge problems , so that everyone can fill any role.

If you make the cap freaking high because classes X and Y can reach it too easily , then the other classes get in trouble.

Class doesn't have anything to do with it, does it? All classes get the same amount of attribute points on level up, or are there hidden increases you're talking about?

Nox_Aeterna

Shimond wrote: »

show previous quotes

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

The problem is quite simple , the caps are low because ALL class should be able to get to them without huge problems , so that everyone can fill any role.

If you make the cap freaking high because classes X and Y can reach it too easily , then the other classes get in trouble.

Class doesn't have anything to do with it, does it? All classes get the same amount of attribute points on level up, or are there hidden increases you're talking about?

Nope i mean skills that give buffs , example , DKs got spiked armor (which is really easy to keep up) right at the game start , which gives a bonus to armor , but the templars on the other hand (atleast that i noticed) , got no skill that gives a buff to armor , so they need to get there without it.

And so on...

Some races will have an easier time getting to certain caps also.

Elvikun

It's hard to comment anything else than "Get to a higher level first.".
May sound condensating, but really this is a bit like level 5 complaining about lack of skills. It gets considerably harder to reach the caps with each level, up to the point where you reaching certain caps might mean you are doing something very wrong.

Polaritie

p.hurst1b16_ESO wrote: »

Ok so the armour (spellcheck needs to learn proper English lol) cap will lift as we level, fair enough.

But why does health regen go overcharged so early compared to maj and sta. This is just silly. They should be the same.

It still makes many passives and skills utterly useless until endgame so why make them accessible at low ranks.

p.hurst1b16_ESO wrote: »

Ok so the armour (spellcheck needs to learn proper English lol) cap will lift as we level, fair enough.

But why does health regen go overcharged so early compared to maj and sta. This is just silly. They should be the same.

It still makes many passives and skills utterly useless until endgame so why make them accessible at low ranks.

Probably because if health regen was at the same rate as magicka/stam can hit in combat, it would make healing far too easy.

I do wonder about the soft caps on defenses though - as a 5L/2H sorc setup, I can trivially hit both caps without any heavy armor point investment because lol bound armor. Then I pop Lightning Form and I'm so far into diminishing returns there's no point having more armor. I still get stung hard by some stuff, which is a mix of needing to not facetank so much (hard against multiple targets with different attack patterns), or just defenses being inadequate (which I feel is often the case in solo play... it just feels that a lot of fights are overtuned)

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO

My only concern with the soft caps is while leveling. It feels very odd to be hitting softcaps before endgame with endgame gear. That said I'm not having problems killing anything either so, while it feels odd it's not really hurting me either.

Polaritie

All the caps increase each level, so it's not a huge deal.

Custos91

I'm aiming to overcharge the skills, need to as a healer^^ ans they constanly are overcharged, no big deal

Talmet

Just because a stat is overcharged, doesn't mean it becomes worthless.

To make this easy to understand, here's an example using DPS (damage per second). Your sustained DPS (meaning your average damage per second, assuming you don't have to move/run/block/dodge/etc just stand there attacking & using your skills) is based off of each of your stats & the skills you use.

More stamina regen, means you can use skills more often, which means that DPS goes up. More stamina means weapons skills do more damage, which means DPS goes up. Ideally you'd want to increase both...but what if it's a choice. i.e. you find a ring that has 10 more stamina regen, but it has +health instead of +stamina, so you'll lose the 40 stamina on your current ring.

So, lets assume for a certain archer build, that stamina regen is worth ten times as much as max stamina (working out that calculation is quite difficult, would require testing in game & and would require calculus to solve..so, lets just assume it is true for this "certain archer build"). That means, that adding 1 stamina regen will boost DPS by the same amount as adding 10 stamina. In that case, adding the 10 stamina regen on the new ring is equivalent to adding 100 stamina, so the new ring will increase your DPS.

But, what if your stamina regen is overcharged? Once stamina regen is overcharged you can still increase the stat, it just takes more points to do it (i.e. lets say it takes 2 points of stamina regen on your gear to add 1 point of stamina regen.) That doesn't mean stamina regen on your gear is worthless, it means that 1 point of stamina regen on your gear is now only worth 5 points of stamina. In this case, adding the 10 stamina regen on the new ring is equivalent to only adding 50 stamina. So, even though your stamina regen stat was overcharged, wearing the new ring will still increase your DPS.

The same is true for the stats armor/HP/spell resist/hp regen. All four of those stats will increase the time it would take to kill you. Depending on the type of attacks that are hitting you, there will be a priority of which stat is doing the most (i.e. if you are being hit by just weapon skills, I don't spell resist does anything). Increasing a stat beyond overcharged doesn't make it stop helping you, it may not even change it's priority.

SuperScrubby

Overcharge is garbage and shouldn't be in the game. If this game pushes "freedom" to make decisions then why can't my 2H DPS have a bunch of armor and still have damage from my 2H?

I've overcharged both my HP and my armor with using Blue drops from my CE chests as well as other green drops. Also with food I can overcharge 1 of my regen stats. There simply is no logic for overcharge. Means your tank isn't as tanky as you want him to be or your healer can't regen and heal longer because they hit you with diminishing returns hard.

Most games don't have diminishing returns at such a low cap. If anything they tier it also. This game wants you to make conscious decisions when choosing your gear and weapons, but then say "hold on" you've already hit your limit and punish you for trying to go above it. I'm not entirely sure on the rate but from when I've swapped my armor its been around like 40-50% of the value gets applied to the overcharge stat.

To make things worse my lvl 34 DK has more armor in PvE than when I go into Cyrodil due to the "scaling". That's some garbage too. I get capped at like 800 armor in Cyrodil even though I'm over 1k armor in PvE.

I for one agree that soft caps need to be rethought. I still have 3 attribute points unused because my HP is overcharged. I'm trying to be as tanky a DPS as possible and the game is basically telling me "nope not happening".

malais

Here is my situation.

Health 1009 OC
Magika 1002 oc
Magika regen is over charged as well.
This is at lvl 24.

If I can hit the cap on two stats and regen cap on 1 without any food buffs the system seems broken.

mark2472

I agree with many of the comments here... soft caps should at least be revisited.

It seems like it limits us from being able to focus on one role. If I want to focus on being a tank, I can hit the soft cap on armor, health regen, etc. I now have to make a choice, though... I can become even tankier by pushing past the soft caps at the cost of only getting 50% returns past the soft cap, or... I can try to put points into performing another role such as DPS or healing.

May just be me, but when I go past the soft cap I feel like I'm wasting 50% of valuable points that could be put to use elsewhere to make my character more effective overall.

But then, I'm conflicted because as a tank I want to be as tanky as possible so I can perform the role as best I can.

redsteven

I'm all for diminishing returns, but we hit them WAY to easily in this game.

i've got 5 green heavy armor, 1 blue heavy, and 1 blue medium. ALL are at least a couple below my level. But i'm so close to the soft cap with those pieces that most of my +armor skills become almost USELESS.