My Dearest Game Developers - Please listen to your customer's pleas about bag space

Morthur

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Sharee

Morthur wrote: »

Additionally, I would argue that any soft-capping system that bases the cap on the amount of tedium a player is willing to endure is a pretty badly designed soft-cap. I'd prefer a soft-cap system that (for example) increases the XP requirements of each subsequent crafting skill by 50% after the second (or third) but with unlimited (or nearly unlimited) inventory space. That way increasing every crafting skill to max will only be doable by really determined people (meaning people determined to farm and play the game, not relog 65 times a day to a mule). I'm not saying that's the exact system I would wish for - I'm just giving an example of why a soft-cap based on the tedium of the current inventory restrictions is not my idea of a fun implementation.

It is only tedious if you run into the cap. If you accept that you are not supposed to level everything at once(lest you run out of space) then the inventory space won't be an issue.

A different system like you suggest would be an alternative, of course we don't know what else went into the decision - for instance i can imagine the devs did not want the market flooded with materials. Remember that other games usually limit your ability to harvest materials, you are limited in what materials you can collect(SWTOR) or you need special tools to harvest(GW2). Here, anyone can harvest everything to their hear's content. This pumps way more materials into the economy than the other two games.

That was just an example of "things we did not consider but the devs did" when figuring out how to limit craftning. Not saying its actually true, or that this is the only thing that could have been considered.

gimarwb17_ESO

Zargorius wrote: »

Bah, I'm levelling Blacksmithing, Enchanting and Woodworking, have no problems with bag/bank space. The people complaining are those who want to be able to do everything at once - something that is not supposed to happen. I find the available slots more than sufficient if you are in the right mindset. YOu can't keep everything, deal with it.

If you are not having any problems with bag space you are a liar. Pure and simple. Enchanting for instance you need a lot of certain pieces in order to use all of the other pieces. So that fills up a lot of bank space. Also Woodworking and Blacksmith, you need all the different stones for different styles and even if you use up say all of your wood and iron or whatever, there are a lot of other things you also use with it.

Bank slots just don't cut it for serious and experienced crafters that take crafting seriously and not only to dabble a bit!

Broken quest, lack of bag space, no auction house , bots everywhere, no names on players ........ and another thing, I actually purchased bank space and then suddenly the game somehow 'forgot' and now I am back to the original bag bank space!

cmongo_ESO

I see alot of bitching about bag space. I for one like it the way it is. You have to make choices in the game, I have 4 other people I craft with,
I send one wood items, one light/Med armor, another food and potions stuff. I found in beta that you can not have the space to do all things so choose
and plan like you have a brain. As far as upgrading and not getting lower level nodes ARE YOU CRAZY. you have skills the will allow you to get the oils
and stones for upgrading by refine that iron, just sell the iron and keep the oils and stones. I have over 100 stones and about 30 oil and i still have 2 more points to put into
the refining skill.

Cheatingdeath23

Again, it seems to boil down to this:
They do not want you to level everything, and anyone complaining about the time it takes to use 6 mules are abusing the system as intended. It is fine that you do that, but don't complain about how tedious it is.

There should be a way to level a second main character with separate bank space... maybe have 2 separate banks, so if you want to level a second character, you do it from scratch (but you have bank space to do so).

What I don't think they want is to have one super leveled character doing all the exploring and harvesting for the minor level characters to instantly level up-- they want you to do the quests and exploring a second time.

knightblaster

Sharee wrote: »

Im not sure if you realize this, but there was an official reply to this issue in the beta, and it said the limited bank space is specifically meant to limit people's ability to pursue multiple crafts at once.

Basically, instead of imposing a hard limit on the number of crafts your character can learn, they imposed a soft limit that hinders you, but does not prevent you from learning everything eventually.

And i very much prefer this instead of a hard cap.

The skill system provides that hindrance -- i.e., one character investing a lot of SPs in more than 1-2 crafts is going to be gimping their combat ability, at least before all SPs are unlocked at level cap. Why does the bank need to do it as well in a belts and suspenders way?

VirtualElizabeth

@Sharee I am aware there was an official reply but it doesn't mean it resolved the issue.

@Zargorius I am dealing with it. I am not one of the ones threatening to leave the game. I will learn to adjust if the company decides to dig their heals in the ground and stand firm on this issue.

Others won't though. The reality is this complaint is not confined to a isolated few. I am actively playing with around 6 players and each one is saying the same thing (they are not of the group threatening to leave though). I took it upon myself to express their complaints in the only way I know how. If I was just playing solo I doubt I would have made this post.

knightblaster

Cheatingdeath23 wrote: »

Again, it seems to boil down to this:
They do not want you to level everything, and anyone complaining about the time it takes to use 6 mules are abusing the system as intended. It is fine that you do that, but don't complain about how tedious it is.

There should be a way to level a second main character with separate bank space... maybe have 2 separate banks, so if you want to level a second character, you do it from scratch (but you have bank space to do so).

What I don't think they want is to have one super leveled character doing all the exploring and harvesting for the minor level characters to instantly level up-- they want you to do the quests and exploring a second time.

But you can do this with 7 mules anyway. It's just tedious to do so. If it wasn't intended, the characters wouldn't all share the entire bank -- like other games, there would be a very small, separate "shared" bank space, and a much larger character-specific bank. Here, you can collect everything, store them on 7 mules (base increase of 350, which of course can be upgraded), and then use them either to level everything at once on on uber character, or to store mats for one of them to level later on so that they don't need to spend time gathering. This is all doable under the current system. It's just tedious.

MysticAura

While our inventory/bank space is a constant challenge, it's my own fault for not always keeping it organized and stripped down to the things I actually need.

However, it would be incredibly nice of them to consider adding a per character bank alongside the current account bank. I really think this would solve a ton of issues people are having. I'd also like guilds to be per character, not per account but that's off topic.

Cheatingdeath23

knightblaster wrote: »

Cheatingdeath23 wrote: »

Again, it seems to boil down to this:
They do not want you to level everything, and anyone complaining about the time it takes to use 6 mules are abusing the system as intended. It is fine that you do that, but don't complain about how tedious it is.

There should be a way to level a second main character with separate bank space... maybe have 2 separate banks, so if you want to level a second character, you do it from scratch (but you have bank space to do so).

What I don't think they want is to have one super leveled character doing all the exploring and harvesting for the minor level characters to instantly level up-- they want you to do the quests and exploring a second time.

But you can do this with 7 mules anyway. It's just tedious to do so. If it wasn't intended, the characters wouldn't all share the entire bank -- like other games, there would be a very small, separate "shared" bank space, and a much larger character-specific bank. Here, you can collect everything, store them on 7 mules (base increase of 350, which of course can be upgraded), and then use them either to level everything at once on on uber character, or to store mats for one of them to level later on so that they don't need to spend time gathering. This is all doable under the current system. It's just tedious.

Tedious = Not intended

That is what I am saying. While you can do this, it is tedious and not much of an advantage. They are creating a disincentive to combat the behavior.

Honestly, if there was a much larger character specific bank, wouldn't you just use the larger bank as a "better mule?" Then you would be complaining about how tedious it is to use the small shared bank space to port mats from your main to your alternate character.

I think it is fine the way it is, if they also allowed one or more characters to have a separate bank. You would have to start fresh and couldn't share between the two (Except maybe allow the mail feature to share certain items for a price), but you would be able to focus on two very different crafting styles with each bank.

knightblaster

Cheatingdeath23 wrote: »

Tedious = Not intended

That is what I am saying. While you can do this, it is tedious and not much of an advantage. They are creating a disincentive to combat the behavior.

Honestly, if there was a much larger character specific bank, wouldn't you just use the larger bank as a "better mule?" Then you would be complaining about how tedious it is to use the small shared bank space to port mats from your main to your alternate character.

I would use a larger character specific bank in that way, yes, which is what most people do in most games, with much less of a need to use mules. Here you just have to use the other character slots as storage vaults unless you want to bow to their will in terms of "how you should be playing our game" when the game is supposed to be "play the way you want to play". It's a contradictory vision, at best. At worst ... I won't go there, at least not yet.

theoak1ey

I'm levelling all my crafts together and before I levelled provisioning to 50 I had bank space issues (I only have one character made). Once I hit 50 I sold all my provisioning ingredients apart from the ones I needed and I haven't had any problems since.

I cant see why people need all their alts to be crafters surely makes more sense to concentrate crafting on one character (for time reasons) and have your others concentrate on all the other skill lines

Cheatingdeath23

knightblaster wrote: »

Cheatingdeath23 wrote: »

Tedious = Not intended

That is what I am saying. While you can do this, it is tedious and not much of an advantage. They are creating a disincentive to combat the behavior.

Honestly, if there was a much larger character specific bank, wouldn't you just use the larger bank as a "better mule?" Then you would be complaining about how tedious it is to use the small shared bank space to port mats from your main to your alternate character.

I would use a larger character specific bank in that way, yes, which is what most people do in most games, with much less of a need to use mules. Here you just have to use the other character slots as storage vaults unless you want to bow to their will in terms of "how you should be playing our game" when the game is supposed to be "play the way you want to play". It's a contradictory vision, at best. At worst ... I won't go there, at least not yet.

I meant that instead of being content with the larger character specific bank space in your main character, many people would use the larger character specific bank space in each of their alternate characters and hoard MORE.

They would still use mules, the mules would just be more effective.

Seeing as people are already explaining how they use 6 alternates as mules (60x6 to 80x6 without spending too much money, for a range of 360 to 480 inventory spots), they would have to DRASTICALLY increase the size of the bank in order to appease everyone without requiring any mules.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

eavammenb14_ESO wrote: »

Dear Game Developers,

I understand your pain of creating a new piece of software - the pains of testing, implementation, marketing etc and so on. I am in the software biz myself (albeit not gaming, but still I deal with customer's needs on a daily basis). Anyone who has been in this game long enough will know when a new software version (or new product) is released there are going to be bugs, hardware/software up time issues blah, blah, blah. But while working through these issues, a company should not overlook customer satisfaction in general.

Time and time again over the last week I have witnessed my friends' struggle with bag space, and at times, even myself. For some, it is now getting to the point where it is significantly impacting their enjoyment of the game. Now, I get Elder Scrolls is different from other MMOs - it is about problem solving and overcoming realistic issues one would face when roaming around a world such as Tamriel. But do you really want to risk lose revenue i.e. subscription fees for the sake of realism? So please, give your customers a break - allow a better inventory management system on the back end or lower the cost of bags upfront.

Besides this, you guys are doing a great job. Thanks for listening.

Bag space is fine. There are multiple ways to improve it. I think its working fine.