Armor Rapidly Taking Damage

Norse

Why does my armor take so much damage with very little use in pve? Is this a money sink to keep us having to farm gold? My Templar has plenty of CC and rarely gets hit in pve yet my armor damage is going up as fast as the tanks in my group. How does damage to armor work in this game? Better yet, why the hell am i taking any damage if im not being hit or cast on?

dannomite82

Bingo. Money sink. If you're that thrifty, you can equip/craft gear with the trait that lowers you chance of taking durability hits.

Norse

dannomite82 wrote: »

Bingo. Money sink. If you're that thrifty, you can equip/craft gear with the trait that lowers you chance of taking durability hits.

Its not about being thrifty. Why should i have to put a trait on my gear for damage reduction when I am not being damaged? This is an ignorant design flaw.

Shimond

It's probably on skill use as well as getting hit (or maybe just pure skill use). This isn't that abnormal, it's so there's always a gold sink even if you play 'safe'.

gimmethecreepsb14_ESO

The obvious answer to this is because if the armor degradation penalties weren't evenly spread across player roles (Tanks who take the most damage, Healers who have the lightest armor, DPS who may be the most evasive to taking damage) Tanks would pay the most for armor repairs, and then nobody would ever level their character as a tank. Think about it... "Hey tanks! You will enjoy a leveling experience of doing less damage, spending more money, and always be yelled at when your group dies! (along with the healer)"

And then you, my DPS friend, would never, ever get a dungeon group together for Spindle, Sewers, Crypts, etc...

gimmethecreepsb14_ESO

Norse wrote: »

dannomite82 wrote: »

Bingo. Money sink. If you're that thrifty, you can equip/craft gear with the trait that lowers you chance of taking durability hits.

Its not about being thrifty. Why should i have to put a trait on my gear for damage reduction when I am not being damaged? This is an ignorant design flaw.

It isn't an ignorant design flaw. If they based armor degradation on the amount of damage you took, it'd be yet another reason nobody would play a tank.

Furthermore, here's a real world application: Kevlar bulletproof vests (Like the ones police and military use) have expiration dates. So even if you never get shot in the armor, it does slowly degrade over time. Standard wear and tear makes it become brittle and unreliable over time. Maybe your armor, is just like that.

Terminus

gimmethecreepsb14_ESO wrote: »

Standard wear and tear makes it become brittle and unreliable over time. Maybe your armor, is just like that.

A fantastic example.
TES4: Oblivion has very similar mechanics in that you need to constantly repair your armor over time.
However, they give you the option to repair it yourself,
Maybe Zenimax should look into giving players that option?

gimmethecreepsb14_ESO

Terminus wrote: »

gimmethecreepsb14_ESO wrote: »

Standard wear and tear makes it become brittle and unreliable over time. Maybe your armor, is just like that.

A fantastic example.
TES4: Oblivion has very similar mechanics in that you need to constantly repair your armor over time.
However, they give you the option to repair it yourself,
Maybe Zenimax should look into giving players that option?

You can purchase repair kits. Honestly though, the repair costs aren't really "brutal" You're talking about maybe 200 gold spent for every 2,000 you make in the early levels, if you aren't constantly dying. Maybe the original poster isn't as "impenetrable" as he'd want us to believe, hence his lamenting over a mechanic that has been part of most games for years...

jmido8

I tried grinding some monsters today to catch up to my quest levels, after grinding for 15-20 minutes, all my gear was completely broke. As a 35 bowplar with an aoe snare, 2 knockbacks, a knockdown, a jumpback, and a stun, I practically never get hit. I repaired my gear and it was completely broken again within another 15-20 minutes. It's not cheap either, it's like 1500-2000g per repair and i'm getting 700-1200g within the same time period so i'm losing a lot of money each time.

It's fine if i'm just doing quests, because most quests are 90% talking and almost no fighting, but any combat makes your items degrade ridiculously fast. I have a feeling we're going to experience this the worst when we hit level 50 and doing more dungeons/raids than quests and you actually have to fight a lot.

Azzuria

Call me crazy ( don't do it, really, or I'll hunt you down... I'm not kidding here! ) but it seems to me the repair costs on my 2-hander-weilding Nord DK who is literally always toe-to-tow, blow-for-blow, up in bad guy's bidness, is much higher than on my Bow-weilding Bosmer NB who kills faster enough to never be touched. Not that the Bosmer doesn't need to repair, she does, but no nearly so often or so much.

Could have something to do with, oh, I dunno... getting beaten upon?

moonshinemicky

Before we start insulting the original poster, perhaps we can take a moment to realize that not everyone's experience is the same? Even with bugs, some people have them and others do not.

In a group of three with no deaths all of us between lvl 19-23 we were having wildly different repair bills. Mine as a cloth caster were 1300+ per hour without dieing. The nightblade leather wearer was about 1000+per hour without dieing. The plate templar was well under 500. Even taking armor and what not into account this seems a bit high for an hour/no deaths.

I was getting hit the least by the beasts that we were fighting (non casters). I'm ok with reasonably high repair bills but after seeing this we've been paying close attention and my repair bills did not go down, regardless of how careful we all were to avoid me getting hit. Actually pretty shocked as there were no deaths and I was getting hit rarely. My repair bills remained 1300gold + per hour. I am barely keeping up with the repairs.

I've been playing MMORPG's since 1999 and this more appears a bug than intended. I've never played one where repair bills without death are greater than income from selling pretty much everything you loot/gather. (and I love to gather)

So before you start putting other players down here and being overly patronizing, take a moment to realize that your experience may differ and that you may not experience bugs that others do. (I bugged it in game because, yes, it seems a bit high)

Again. Not everyone's experiences with bugs are the same. I've had repair bills consistently over 1500g an hour without deaths and with playing safe.

gimmethecreepsb14_ESO

jmido8 wrote: »

I tried grinding some monsters today to catch up to my quest levels, after grinding for 15-20 minutes, all my gear was completely broke. As a 35 bowplar with an aoe snare, 2 knockbacks, a knockdown, a jumpback, and a stun, I practically never get hit. I repaired my gear and it was completely broken again within another 15-20 minutes. It's not cheap either, it's like 1500-2000g per repair and i'm getting 700-1200g within the same time period so i'm losing a lot of money each time.

It's fine if i'm just doing quests, because most quests are 90% talking and almost no fighting, but any combat makes your items degrade ridiculously fast. I have a feeling we're going to experience this the worst when we hit level 50 and doing more dungeons/raids than quests and you actually have to fight a lot.

See to be fair to you, sir, I've not yet obtained that level and I've never AOE grinded in game. I play a similar style (24 bow-sorc, plenty of roots, knockdowns, snares, etc.) and generally dont get hit. However, I don't know in 15-20 minutes how many mobs you're burning down compared to what I am burning down in 15-20 minutes just moseying around completing quests, etc. I'd imagine TESO has done this somewhat intentionally, to turn players off from just AOE grinding from 1 to 50 as fast as they can, and to push players to complete storyline objectives (Which will obviously also award you gold) despite the fact that you were just trying to scale your level with that of the quests you were given.

It also makes relative sense to me that if you're killing more enemies than most people do while questing, you'll take higher repair costs.

gimmethecreepsb14_ESO

moonshinemicky wrote: »

Before we start insulting the original poster, perhaps we can take a moment to realize that not everyone's experience is the same? Even with bugs, some people have them and others do not.

In a group of three with no deaths all of us between lvl 19-23 we were having wildly different repair bills. Mine as a cloth caster were 1300+ per hour without dieing. The nightblade leather wearer was about 1000+per hour without dieing. The plate templar was well under 500. Even taking armor and what not into account this seems a bit high for an hour/no deaths.

I was getting hit the least by the beasts that we were fighting (non casters). I'm ok with reasonably high repair bills but after seeing this we've been paying close attention and my repair bills did not go down, regardless of how careful we all were to avoid me getting hit. Actually pretty shocked as there were no deaths and I was getting hit rarely. My repair bills remained 1300gold + per hour. I am barely keeping up with the repairs.

I've been playing MMORPG's since 1999 and this more appears a bug than intended. I've never played one where repair bills without death are greater than income from selling pretty much everything you loot/gather. (and I love to gather)

So before you start putting other players down here and being overly patronizing, take a moment to realize that your experience may differ and that you may not experience bugs that others do. (I bugged it in game because, yes, it seems a bit high)

Again. Not everyone's experiences with bugs are the same. I've had repair bills consistently over 1500g an hour without deaths and with playing safe.

Were you aoe grinding, or were you questing, dungeon-running, etc.? Because there seems to be a theme developing here that people who are AOE grinding are experiencing the most issue with the repair costs. It would make sense to me that ZO would want to offset people from AOE grinding with heavy repair fees, as it's seemed to become an unintended "shortcut" to leveling quickly and losing the intended point of the game (to get into the stories and everything)

nerevarine1138

jmido8 wrote: »

I tried grinding some monsters today to catch up to my quest levels, after grinding for 15-20 minutes, all my gear was completely broke. As a 35 bowplar with an aoe snare, 2 knockbacks, a knockdown, a jumpback, and a stun, I practically never get hit. I repaired my gear and it was completely broken again within another 15-20 minutes. It's not cheap either, it's like 1500-2000g per repair and i'm getting 700-1200g within the same time period so i'm losing a lot of money each time.

It's fine if i'm just doing quests, because most quests are 90% talking and almost no fighting, but any combat makes your items degrade ridiculously fast. I have a feeling we're going to experience this the worst when we hit level 50 and doing more dungeons/raids than quests and you actually have to fight a lot.

Either you're exaggerating, or something's wrong. I've never had my gear break, even after dying a few times in a dungeon run.

SuperScrubby

I've never had my gear break either and that's with playing for a few hours straight without repairs, as well as another instance of dying about 5-6 times in spindle.

So it could just be based on the times you attack/actions done by your character.

Jadeviper1974

gimmethecreepsb14_ESO wrote: »

Norse wrote: »

dannomite82 wrote: »

Bingo. Money sink. If you're that thrifty, you can equip/craft gear with the trait that lowers you chance of taking durability hits.

Its not about being thrifty. Why should i have to put a trait on my gear for damage reduction when I am not being damaged? This is an ignorant design flaw.

It isn't an ignorant design flaw. If they based armor degradation on the amount of damage you took, it'd be yet another reason nobody would play a tank.

Furthermore, here's a real world application: Kevlar bulletproof vests (Like the ones police and military use) have expiration dates. So even if you never get shot in the armor, it does slowly degrade over time. Standard wear and tear makes it become brittle and unreliable over time. Maybe your armor, is just like that.

From having worn actual armor in my younger days, (Member of the SCA for a while), I can tell you that armor has to be repaired constantly even when not being used. Straps degrade just from wearing the armor and rubbing or being folded when the armor is packed. Armor is something that has to have maintenance period. So yes your armor should degrade just from running around it just happens, especially to heavy armor. Remember a set of full plate without straps is just a pile of pretty metal.

Azzuria

Wasn't trying to be insulting. Just a bit, you know, snarky / cutesy.

erich199

My buddies said the same thing happened to them after they tried to grind to get to level 50 from 47. After two minutes from repairing their armor, the armor started to degrade rapidly. He said it dropped two points after just the first mob. So I'm not sure if it's a bug, or someone's trying to stop the mass grinds.
Ironically, they missed several quest to get xp. The customer service told them to "skip that quest for now" if they're weren't able to complete the quest at the time. I'm not sure if they can or can't go back to get that quest XP.

It is strange, because when they weren't "grinding mobs" their armor degrading was normal.

Just curious observation.

Norse

Jadeviper1974 wrote: »

gimmethecreepsb14_ESO wrote: »

Norse wrote: »

dannomite82 wrote: »

Bingo. Money sink. If you're that thrifty, you can equip/craft gear with the trait that lowers you chance of taking durability hits.

Its not about being thrifty. Why should i have to put a trait on my gear for damage reduction when I am not being damaged? This is an ignorant design flaw.

It isn't an ignorant design flaw. If they based armor degradation on the amount of damage you took, it'd be yet another reason nobody would play a tank.

Furthermore, here's a real world application: Kevlar bulletproof vests (Like the ones police and military use) have expiration dates. So even if you never get shot in the armor, it does slowly degrade over time. Standard wear and tear makes it become brittle and unreliable over time. Maybe your armor, is just like that.

From having worn actual armor in my younger days, (Member of the SCA for a while), I can tell you that armor has to be repaired constantly even when not being used. Straps degrade just from wearing the armor and rubbing or being folded when the armor is packed. Armor is something that has to have maintenance period. So yes your armor should degrade just from running around it just happens, especially to heavy armor. Remember a set of full plate without straps is just a pile of pretty metal.

By that train of thought perma death should also be implemented into the game. Being realistic is one thing. But going over the top with it turns the game into work.

Altheina

Guys, let's not bring in real life situation into this as they are completely different. I believe many of us curious to know whether or not the wear and tear effect occurs in both doing damage and taking damage or only upon taking damage.

To my personal experience, I believe gears don't really degrade if you are not taking damage or it may degrade but at a much lower rate.

Sarenia

Norse wrote: »

dannomite82 wrote: »

Bingo. Money sink. If you're that thrifty, you can equip/craft gear with the trait that lowers you chance of taking durability hits.

Its not about being thrifty. Why should i have to put a trait on my gear for damage reduction when I am not being damaged? This is an ignorant design flaw.

No.

Falling through the ground is a game design flaw.

An exploit that lets bots warp between harvest nodes is a game design flaw.

Armor wear is a game feature. Just because you are unwilling to use any of the mitigating methods to reduce repair costs doesn't make it a flaw. It just makes you stubborn and resistant to change in games.

Frankly, I'm ecstatic that my armor isn't all magically permanent and invincible. It's a resource now. When it gets hit, it gets dented or torn. Dents in armor cost more to repair than torn cloth. Horribly battered armor is probably cheaper to replace than repair. This makes sense.

It also keeps crafters in business.

disexistencenub19_ESO

I just chalk it up to general wear and tear, like most people have said. Regardless, I don't always repair it, as I'm constantly making new stuff with crafting or finding stuff as I explore. If it's beyond an acceptable level, I just craft a replacement item, as it's usually much cheaper on the wallet. I'm not sure how pricey repairing gear is at max level with end game stuff yet, so I'll make that judgement call when I get there.

matthewameluxenub17_ESO

Never had my gear fully break down, even when dying a few times in dungeons. It may be useful to look into a bit more to see if something isn't functioning correctly. I've also never had an issue fully repairing gear and gathering the funds for it.

Either something isn't working as it should, or people are greatly exaggerating their repair vs. death cost I guess because they don't like gold sinks or something??

For what it is worth, I play as a light armor healer. I use crafted gear with enchants. If a particular dungeon group is not going well and I die ~4-5 times, armor still is about 2/3's full. Repair seems to be ~750 gold? This is at level 42.

ConquerorDromtar

At level 25, using mostly dungeon or world boss drop blues, my repairs are often in the 1200+ range for 100% heavy on a DK that's a 100% melee fighter. I can't say whether or not armor degrades without getting hit and/or dying because I get hit a lot and die more than I'd like to admit.

Like some posters have said, it's often cheaper to craft your own replacement armor than it is to repair it…and you get inspiration from doing it. A set of armor will typically last me the two levels between crafting tiers/level restriction, but by then it's often pretty well battered and some of the pieces may be completely gone.

Najarati

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Either you're exaggerating, or something's wrong. I've never had my gear break, even after dying a few times in a dungeon run.

I do wonder if something is amiss with armor durability, actually. My brother plays a "traditional" rogue style of Nightblade (duel wielding, leather armor, backstabbing attacks) and his armor decays alarmingly fast. For example, I gave him a fresh, level-appropriate blue-quality chest piece (~level 28, dungeon drop) and after 30-minutes of fighting it was completely broken. I couldn't believe it. The rest of us had some decay, but nothing had yet broken.

He even sent me his chest piece as proof. It had zero durability. Mind you, we weren't doing mass AoE farming, neither were we dying often (or at all, really). However, we were doing dungeon delves in Cyrodiil if that matters.

kyuven

One thing people miss is that armor doesn't go from "not broken" to "broken" in this game. It degrades. Some people don't notice, but as your armor takes damage the amount of protection it provides goes down.
I've had dungeon groups completely botch easy fights, reminded them to go repair their damn armor, and we came back and mopped the floor with the boss.
I'm also convinced there's a base degradation for every activity you take, and that it IS a method to dissuade AOE farmers. Think about it: Quest EXP gives you a large amount for killing maybe a dozen or so monsters, while AOE exp has you killing two or three times that (faster, but still) for the same amount. Gaining the quest exp doesn't ding your armor, while those mobs do. It's quite literally the price you have to pay.
The armor degradation rate in this game definitely feels more complex than games where it's simply "DIE=10% DEGRADATION. 100% DEGRADATION=BROKEN."

Tetujin

I would just like to know a bit more about it, to see if there is a way to mitigate it. Does getting hit by power attacks affect it? Fall damage? I've heard people claim that it does. It's a bit hard to say from watching it casually, it sort of sneaks up. I'll probably try to test it more rigorously myself when I have a chance later.

Are you certaib it's not a bug, like a quote or something that shows it for sure is meant to work this way? The trait references "on death" I think doesn't it? Maybe it's mistakenly applying after every combat, death or not. It's not unreasonable to think they did this as wear and tear, but usually you see it as a death penalty.

I think they should consider whether it is worth scaling it back at lower level, and having white items a lot less to repair, because those are so replaceable.

The lowering of both armour and enchantments can make a pretty big difference for sure, it's worth keeping them repaired if possible to stay powerful. I'm curious if it's just a straight linear repair based on % decay or if it's cheaper overall to keep it close to full. More things to check later I guess, unless someone knows.

EDIT: I should just say I don't necessarily mind having a decay like this, but it would seem better if it happened slower, more weighty and rapid just on death. If it's not a bug.

Thesiren

Repair costs are too high in ESO, at least for the early years of a server. Five years down the road when it's all maxxed out, twinked 50s with more gold than they know what to do with, maybe it won't be a big deal, but it is right now. So much so that many players don't repair their armor but replace it instead. So that tells you something right there.

Noth

I've done entire zones with all my equipment at 0%. I barely notice a difference. Also saves money.

Thesiren

Noth wrote: »

I've done entire zones with all my equipment at 0%. I barely notice a difference. Also saves money.

Wow, really? I might try that then. I guess I just assumed character performance would be severely hampered by then.

Dagoth_Rac

I wish we could use materials (Steel Ingots, Flax, whatever) to repair our gear at crafting stations. I know it is a fantasy game and does not need to match the real world, but it seems like a workshop equipped well enough to build a whole set of armor from scratch, could also repair that armor.