Armor caps are a joke

Pyles

I'm quickly discovering the armor over charge cap is both level and class restricted.

Lvl 14 sorc wearing all lvl 12 crafted heavy armor has LESS armor than a guildy lvl 11 NB wearing all lvl 7-11 medium armor all dps spec 2h.

This is with my Sorc obtaining every defensive heavy armor passive and sword+shield.

My overcharged armor stat is ~540 armor which is a joke given the setup. ~780 scaled in Cyro. My guildy dps NB at lvl 11 was ~750 scaled to ~980.

Which explained why my "defensive" build was getting 2 shot and he was living through far more.

So much for play your own way. Perhaps it should read "play how we want you to within standard mmo pidgeon holes"

dragoaskani

Level restricted is fine, but it should not be class restricted at all. I should test it out on my Templar some.

jhaak714_ESO

Not enough info to really say what's going on...

It would be news to me if the classes had separate caps on the various stats (wouldn't make any sense IMO).

I'd wonder about the exact builds used and how exactly a fight is handled by each player before making any real statements. Declaring your armor type alone isn't really much info.

Pyles

jhaak714_ESO wrote: »

Not enough info to really say what's going on...

It would be news to me if the classes had separate caps on the various stats (wouldn't make any sense IMO).

I'd wonder about the exact builds used and how exactly a fight is handled by each player before making any real statements. Declaring your armor type alone isn't really much info.

On thinking on this, i agree with you, it doesnt make sense to have separate stat caps aswell.

I'm beginning to think the difference could be a base armor value per class with the armor value from items/passives being capped on top of.

i.e. If a Sorcerer has a base of ~250 armor and a NB has base ~500 armor. At lvl 14 if they have a soft cap of an additional ~300 armor from items/passives it could explain why there is a such an oppoiste result from expectation.

The difference in class base stats would need to be at least ~250 to explain what i saw. If there is, it may increase with level or be fixed.

Your comment on exact builds and how a fight is handled it quite pointless on the issue of vastly varying armor values given the scenario i posted.

It was to highlight an exceptionally poor result without needing to know the underlying mechanics. I doubt the expectation for everyone is to micro analyse and accurately test to some very fine points, to expect heavy armor worn vs medium armor worn of a lower level for the heavy armor to have a higher armor value. Not a unreasonable leap of logic.

I can understand in pvp getting 2 shot your comment holds true. There are too many variables which i didnt begin to show. My comment here was mere frustration more than anything.

Unfortunately i cannot login to compare naked armor values and add items/passives 1 at a time to find what the base values are and what it takes to overcharge cap it.

ksaggies04ub17_ESO2

Hmmm....this makes sense when I think about it. At least in terms of explaining my in-game experiences.

My friend is a NB and I'm a sorc. I noticed I had more spell resist than he did when we were the same level and I had no idea why.

The OP could very well be right about this - the stats may be tied to class.

Another thing - I've tried some combinations of heavy armor and the skills that buff armor (daedric / lightning form), and to be honest - I really couldn't tell that much of a difference. I felt like my health was going to down only marginally slower when I was getting hit.

I'm glad I decided to pass on the idea of a sorc tank before I wasted a lot of points.

Rhastah

This really makes me sad. I thought the idea was that every class could play every role, if you put enough points into it. Seems that every class can play a healer role maybe, but tank is limited to only one class. This will make group finding exactly like every other game; i.e., everyone waiting on a tank/tanks feeling over-important and inevitably condescending due to their being the only member of a group that's not easily replaceable.

rhubbert_ESO

I am playing a tanky/DPS Sorceror as well but I have not noticed any survivability problems. I use the Imperial race passives to help out and put all my attribute points but 4 in health (Level 24 now). I use Executioner, Stampede, Shattering Prison, Critical Surge, and Thundering Presence. This allows me to be extremely tanky for 9 seconds while doing insane weapon damage. I have been able to play Off-tank and DPS in raid group and soloing is super easy. I find it perfectly viable.

Khazaad

rhubbert_ESO wrote: »

I am playing a tanky/DPS Sorceror as well but I have not noticed any survivability problems. I use the Imperial race passives to help out and put all my attribute points but 4 in health (Level 24 now). I use Executioner, Stampede, Shattering Prison, Critical Surge, and Thundering Presence. This allows me to be extremely tanky for 9 seconds while doing insane weapon damage. I have been able to play Off-tank and DPS in raid group and soloing is super easy. I find it perfectly viable.

extremely viable off-tank. Took the words out of my mouth. A primary tank's force multiplier, if you will

bantad87

I play a Breton sorc tank and I don't really have any survive ability issues, are you using a shield?

Armor mitigation in this game caps at 33% before any armor penetration comes into play, remember that part of the bolster in Cyrodiil is 300 armor penetration. What actually makes you tank in this game is a shield, and high stamina in order to block. Armor doesn't matter quite as much in ESO as other MMOs.

Teloran

This is the first time I've heard of class dependent caps for any stats. Do you have any screenshots to verify this?

katamuro11b16_ESO

Yeah the cap is a bit weird, my temp heavy armour isnt even that good yet it maxes it out without me really trying.

a_thielen_ESO

Proof that armor caps at 33% mitigation please. That's a pathetic number.

Also you guys need to post your levels and softcaps. My sorc softcap is 600 at level 18.

SirPuppingtonVonHat

I doubt that class would effect soft caps; we need far more data than is being given to even remotely support such a notion. As for OP's problem, we need exact builds for both characters. We really can't do much to help otherwise.

SuperScrubby

If it is 33% then good lord that needs to be tweaked. Creates no "freedom" whatsoever. KILLIN' MY IMMERSION MAN.

Stx

Armor soft caps at 33%, but it hard caps at 50%. If you are in full heavy with sword/shield, any class will hit the soft cap at higher levels. Activating cooldowns like Immovable/Lightning form will get you close to the hard cap.

Any class can tank, any class can AE, any class can heal, any class can burst. Lots of complaining here over nothing.

Maybe the classes do have different base armor values, who knows. Either way, it all works when you level up. Sorc has lightning form + bound armor, so I see no reason to worry.

Vairkjosab14_ESO

My armor is holding up mostly when battling with level characters. I've still been one shotted by same level characters with no apparent reason. I don't like that. I go in with potions and high level gear and the NPC still takes me out with one or two shots. It could be me but WTF? How can a level 15 NPC take me out with no apparent attack? I just die. There's very little to recognize in order to adapt to that sort of death.

zgrssd

Pyles wrote: »

I'm quickly discovering the armor over charge cap is both level and class restricted.

Lvl 14 sorc wearing all lvl 12 crafted heavy armor has LESS armor than a guildy lvl 11 NB wearing all lvl 7-11 medium armor all dps spec 2h.

This is with my Sorc obtaining every defensive heavy armor passive and sword+shield.

My overcharged armor stat is ~540 armor which is a joke given the setup. ~780 scaled in Cyro. My guildy dps NB at lvl 11 was ~750 scaled to ~980.

Post your exact Class, Levels, Race and Skill Selection (inlcuding class skills).
Also, what buffs (Mundus, nearby players) where you affected by when taking the reading?

As far as I heard some percentile racial bonuses might not be affected by Cap. It could also be that the friend in the example was inlcuding situational bonuses (NB Shadow line has some post stealth armor buffs+combat stealth).
If your information is not matching up with the ones from someone else, look for mistakes in the comparsion or communication first.

The only way to be certain is to have to Chars on same level, mail the armor peices between them and check if there is any (class) skill different/affecting it.

Untill somebody takes two equal level charcters, gives them same armor (ideally mailing the pieces) and compares the values (on post with screenshots), the information is incomplete/suspect and we have to asume the initial comparision was done faulty.

gunplummer

My problem is I'm trying to run with a pure tank, but my armor gets capped before I can completely gear up.

Level 24 Imperial DK straight shield/sword. I'm wearing lv 20 steel improved to fine, my armor rating is yellow at over 1000 if I include helmet/gloves. I have no armor bluffs only stam/mag/feat/spell bluffs. My armor traits are explore/training, but I still can't wear helmet/gloves and my HA levels so slowly. Why?

ZoM_Head

Pyles wrote: »

I'm quickly discovering the armor over charge cap is both level and class restricted.

Lvl 14 sorc wearing all lvl 12 crafted heavy armor has LESS armor than a guildy lvl 11 NB wearing all lvl 7-11 medium armor all dps spec 2h.

This is with my Sorc obtaining every defensive heavy armor passive and sword+shield.

My overcharged armor stat is ~540 armor which is a joke given the setup. ~780 scaled in Cyro. My guildy dps NB at lvl 11 was ~750 scaled to ~980.

Which explained why my "defensive" build was getting 2 shot and he was living through far more.

So much for play your own way. Perhaps it should read "play how we want you to within standard mmo pidgeon holes"

Rubbish, the moment any of my heavy armour characters can craft a full set of simpe level 6 heavy armour, they hit the soft cap of around 296-297 right from the starter islands.

If my memory serves, light armour (level 6) hit 191 or so and medium hit 210-220 (somewhere around those numbers).

No skill points spent into armour, level 2-3 crafting in clothing/blacksmithing.

My level 23 Dragon Knight hit 961 with only standard white steel armour and it was soft caped before i hit spiked armour as well.

reagen_lionel

this goes against the very thing they said they werent going to do.
This will just segregate classes restricting stat benefits to certain classes.

ivioin

Lol, You guys are funny! Tanking is more than physical damage! How about you guys figure in the Spell resistance. If a dk has 1500 armor,1000 spell res and a sorc has 1000 armor and 1500 spell res; that is acceptable. Maybe, different content is better for a certain type of tank. Maybe we have more than one type of tank. Either way i'm good with it. Sorry for those who want to make a God like character....this is not skyrim!

bantad87

The differences in armor type are more for regeneration and perk bonuses, as opposed to actual armor values. Additionally, tanking relies more on having high stamina, a shield, and something like defensive stance in order to mitigate high damage spell casting.

Armor soft caps at 33%, which your armor should hit; additional armor should be gained from class skills that focus on getting you to the hard cap, which is 50%.

If you focus on high stamina, shield perks, wear heavy armor, and stack stamina regeneration and health regeneration on your accessories; and then slot abilities that improve your armor, spell resist, and reflect spells - you've suddenly become a truly tanky character. (Remember though that PvP tanks need to slot defensive stance against casters, as light armor + destruction staff give a LOT of spell resist penetration - against players, reflecting spells is more important than mitigating them).

ZoM_Head

ivioin wrote: »

Lol, You guys are funny! Tanking is more than physical damage! How about you guys figure in the Spell resistance. If a dk has 1500 armor,1000 spell res and a sorc has 1000 armor and 1500 spell res; that is acceptable. Maybe, different content is better for a certain type of tank. Maybe we have more than one type of tank. Either way i'm good with it. Sorry for those who want to make a God like character....this is not skyrim!

But that is common sense, heavy armour resist more physical damage and boosts your own physical damage output.

Light armour resists more magic and boosts your own magic (cost less to cast and higher regen).

But then comes something for all armours from the fighters guild, Circle of Protection at level 4 guild level and at level 1 COP, it boosts you to 200 spell and armour to everyone inside, and double that against daedra and undead. Thats 400 for both!

Victus

a_thielen_ESO wrote: »

Also you guys need to post your levels and softcaps. My sorc softcap is 600 at level 18.

IIRC, my Dragon Knight at that level was in the orange at a tad over 600, so it seems about the same. He is only 21 right now and so I need to check what it's at now.

FENGRUSH

Pyles wrote: »

I'm quickly discovering the armor over charge cap is both level and class restricted.

Lvl 14 sorc wearing all lvl 12 crafted heavy armor has LESS armor than a guildy lvl 11 NB wearing all lvl 7-11 medium armor all dps spec 2h.

This is with my Sorc obtaining every defensive heavy armor passive and sword+shield.

My overcharged armor stat is ~540 armor which is a joke given the setup. ~780 scaled in Cyro. My guildy dps NB at lvl 11 was ~750 scaled to ~980.

Which explained why my "defensive" build was getting 2 shot and he was living through far more.

So much for play your own way. Perhaps it should read "play how we want you to within standard mmo pidgeon holes"

These numbers are inflated and not real. Do you know how armor works in Cyrodill before youre 50?

Sakiri

ivioin wrote: »

Lol, You guys are funny! Tanking is more than physical damage! How about you guys figure in the Spell resistance. If a dk has 1500 armor,1000 spell res and a sorc has 1000 armor and 1500 spell res; that is acceptable. Maybe, different content is better for a certain type of tank. Maybe we have more than one type of tank. Either way i'm good with it. Sorry for those who want to make a God like character....this is not skyrim!

My dks armor and spell resist are overcharged. Not hard to do, even in heavy armor.

lajnus86b16_ESO

ím at 2k armor with just one selfbuff and no gear with armor increase in plate, its way to easy to hit the soft/hardcap.

Niminion

Diminishing returns on armor is like normal stuff in games, what's the big deal? Armor never scales linearly or it would be the best stat in the game. You want physical damage to be worthless?

heilikin

Niminion wrote: »

Diminishing returns on armor is like normal stuff in games, what's the big deal? Armor never scales linearly or it would be the best stat in the game. You want physical damage to be worthless?

That's not normal! it is not normal than a guy in pijama is as god protected vs physical damage as a guy in heavy steel and big thick shield. The cap does that actually. There is no point in going into a sword and shield heavy armor when you aren't protected more than a mage in light armor... you have traded your dps rating for an incexistant armor benefit... That's not normal.

Normally it's glass canon mage ---> to bunker with a water pistol (S/S HA tank). But here it is just bunker canon mage ----> to no better protected water pistol gun tank....

steinernein

The point is that it is easier to reach and sustain 50% damage reduction in heavy armor than it is in light. Somewhere, you have to gap that 500+ armor differential. Then comes the other secondary mitigation *** such as healing received, decreased block costs etc.

RangerChad

Remember that Races (Should) have separate armor and spell resistance. If they did MMO"ize" the Elder Scroll Races, it would make sense that some races are more suited for specific roles. I have not done any research on the subject, but it seems people are just talking about classes, and not taking into account the races used in the classes.