Itemization and progression is terrible?

ZRage

Ok, first off I'm not focusing on visuals which are great, most armors look awesome but what this items provide to your character it is entirely different story...

First off I'm @ VR3 rank right now, and I thought this item game will develop itself trough gameplay but I see it's not even there.

I mean this is somekind of joke a single spell like boundless storm or immovable gives my character MORE damage resistance, more armor, more spell resistance than whole my set of lvl 50-VR3 gear.

And what is the point of improving it so I will get my overcharge cap to 1950 from 1940 after 20 hours of item collecting and crafting and finally My damage with ice shard will improve from 538 to 539 (lol'd). Most fo your character "power" comes from the level of your character and abilities so the whole itemization and your items are like trivial thing in this game.

What's the point to upgrading your items to legendary... Seriously when you just hit this overcharge cap you will have 50 more hit points after 200 hours or so gameplay, gear upgrading, farming, crafting this makes absolutely no sense this progression and itemization is just terrible in my opinion. All the bonuses you get from this upgrade are so so small that it's simply unrewarding, unworthy.

The worse is that you can earn more gold, at lower levels in pub dungeons, static places than on Veteran ranks, I never seen such and okward idea to destroy the game I'm serious it's obvious economy, gold economy is going to be exploited heavly by the botters / gold sellers. It's sad actually level 15 bot will have more gold in one day than veteran rank player who need to do something more than just sit in pub dungeon and click button / this is terrible.

I'd like to explain this problem further but there is so much into it I simply don't know where to start. It's bad and it will require massive changes to the itemization, otherwise this game will simply lack deep itemization game.

Sorry for this criticism it's just how I feel about the game, it's fun to play but the progression of your character upgrade / itemization is so small and so unimportant it just bothers me what better is there to do in mmo than getting all the best items in the world and feel great if you can really see how they improve your character. this is something this game is simply lacking of.

Maybe it's me I hoped for more depth in this item game, Like improving your gear with rare souls of slained bosses or something like that. something hard to find and hard to do but rewarding and worthy, not an another linear upgrade from 205 armor to 215 armor which in the end doesn't make any difference because you hit overcharge and what's worse this upgrade is so unisgnificant it's doesn't matter at all.

Varko

The biggest problem is.you are vr 3....

ZRage

I didn't rush trough gameplay as much as I could, I skipped some quests that's all I play games for a lot so I know what to skip and what to not skip. This is the way I like to play and it's most enjoyable for me to upgrade my char as fast as possible.

Seraseth

So you rushed to end game and found that the game is not all about the loot treadmill, and now are bored/disappointed?

Nox_Aeterna

It does not surprise me , they probably left the veteran stuff for last to dev.

From what i understood , there is still a LOT of stuff missing for veteran player right? Or is it only for veteran 10 players?

Vikova

This is fairly standard once you hit end-game, which VR3 certainly is. For most MMOs, once you get that far upgrades are minimal and exist essentially for bragging rights. It changes once new content is released, the level cap is increased, and the potentiality of gear is furthered. It is the same situation in other MMOs when you have a full set of raiding gear except for that one piece that will just barely boost a stat but you can finally say "there, got it." Once you are that geared out, MMOs become about achievements, completionism, alts, PvP, and titles.

As far as benefits of gear in general versus the benefits of abilities, there could be some more broadly valid critiques there regarding balancing.

ZRage

It's not about rushing trough the game, Ive played like 70+ hours from the start the problem is trough all this gameplay I haven't found even one item that would really feel like it's solid improvement for my character. Something that would boost my abilities, add some interesting effects. There is absolutely nothing no rare items that you can find and really feel like it is a good reward which improves your character for a bit of time. I just feel that way this whole itemization is inferior to character build-in power and makes the whole item game simply trivial.

Seraseth

Items were always less important than skill in ES games. Most armors just had a buff to a skill. I think it's nice to have a game that's not all about the carrot on the stick.

Vikova

ZRage wrote: »

It's not about rushing trough the game, Ive played like 70+ hours from the start the problem is trough all this gameplay I haven't found even one item that would really feel like it's solid improvement for my character. Something that would boost my abilities, add some interesting effects. There is absolutely nothing no rare items that you can find and really feel like it is a good reward which improves your character for a bit of time. I just feel that way this whole itemization is inferior to character build-in power and makes the whole item game simply trivial.

With weapons and armor having their own skill trees, to some extent I think this is intentional. Gear is supposed to have a lower priority. Just a thought. Doesn't mean that balancing couldn't happen, but it seems very intentional that gear isn't all-important.

zaria

The only issue I see is that you don't get the best stuff from raid bosses but rather from random loot from high level mobs.

ZRage

"With weapons and armor having their own skill trees, to some extent I think this is intentional. Gear is supposed to have a lower priority. Just a thought. Doesn't mean that balancing couldn't happen, but it seems very intentional that gear isn't all-important. "

I know it is intentional but it makes no sense at some point you can finish and play easy in level 50 or even Veteran zones with level 10 white items which in my opinion makes no sense and explains how inferior and uninportant high quality items are in this game.

I really can't see how can you have a good MMO without a good itemization builded - in.

Vikova

ZRage wrote: »

"With weapons and armor having their own skill trees, to some extent I think this is intentional. Gear is supposed to have a lower priority. Just a thought. Doesn't mean that balancing couldn't happen, but it seems very intentional that gear isn't all-important. "

I know it is intentional but it makes no sense at some point you can finish and play easy in level 50 or even Veteran zones with level 10 white items which in my opinion makes no sense and explains how inferior and uninportant high quality items are in this game.

I really can't see how can you have a good MMO without a good itemization builded - in.

From a progression standpoint, you are essentially "done" in Veteran until they release new content. Being able to run around and experience the other zones is essentially bonus and exploration. This is why PvP, achievements, eight character slots, etc., exist.

Regardless of how they handled itemization functionality, every MMO has an endgame wall - that's why it is called endgame. I am agreeing with you that gear should have more relative importance to your abilities and effectiveness, but I am failing to understand what exactly you were looking for once you hit endgame.

Deadeyemouse14_ESO

Wow, I'm 70 hours of game time in and lvl 23. I suppose we all get value in different ways. I figured the endgame at the moment isn't too strong, but in development as many press releases have stated. Plus, this is Elder Scrolls, its about the journey. At the pace I'm going, who knows when I'll hit where you are at, and this makes me a ton happier that I'm taking my time and enjoying the world.

It doesn't even feel like leveling, and that's as good as I can ask for. Screw the grind and the destination. I'm here for the ride.

EDIT - Also, I'm not even doing every little piece of exploration. I got one friend I bought the game with who has as much game time and has two characters at 8 and 10 respectably. That's because he is out there checking every home, talking to every NPC, reading every book, etc. 70+ hours in and only one char at 8 and another at 10. There is a ton of content here, and you just blew past it.

Vikova

Deadeyemouse14_ESO wrote: »

Wow, I'm 70 hours of game time in and lvl 23. I suppose we all get value in different ways. I figured the endgame at the moment isn't too strong, but in development as many press releases have stated. Plus, this is Elder Scrolls, its about the journey. At the pace I'm going, who knows when I'll hit where you are at, and this makes me a ton happier that I'm taking my time and enjoying the world.

It doesn't even feel like leveling, and that's as good as I can ask for. Screw the grind and the destination. I'm here for the ride.

EDIT - Also, I'm not even doing every little piece of exploration. I got one friend I bought the game with who has as much game time and has two characters at 8 and 10 respectably. That's because he is out there checking every home, talking to every NPC, reading every book, etc. 70+ hours in and only one char at 8 and another at 10. There is a ton of content here, and you just blew past it.

All sorts of this. When people hit 50 in less than 80 hours of playing time, it makes it seem like the explored nothing, listened to nothing, experienced almost nothing. If that is how they want to play, all the power to them. You just need to remember that "end" is part of "endgame."

Kolache

What did you expect exactly? Even if this game was the average run-of-the-treadmill game, how many tiers of gear did you expect to keep you entertained when you're grinding them on the weekend of the official release?

Why exactly should/would a developer even want to say, double the treadmill for a handfull of people at the cost of thinning out content and creating balance issues for everyone else? What would it accomplish? If you had 10 more tiers of gear to get, that would buy your attention for what, a whole month?

The only thing you've demonstrated here is how pointless it is to even attempt to cater to people that only care about bigger, better math in an MMO. Maybe Blizzard can continue to reskin some stuff quick enough for you to be perpetually satiated.

Sarenia

"I zerged to the end of the game in the first few days of launch, and now I'm bored!"

We'll be seeing a lot of these threads. Everybody put on their raincoats for the onslaught of tears we'll get from the zerg-rushers.

Vikova

Sarenia wrote: »

"I zerged to the end of the game in the first few days of launch, and now I'm bored!"

We'll be seeing a lot of these threads. Everybody put on their raincoats for the onslaught of tears we'll get from the zerg-rushers.

This is why one should always play Protoss.

ZRage

Sarenia wrote: »

"I zerged to the end of the game in the first few days of launch, and now I'm bored!"

We'll be seeing a lot of these threads. Everybody put on their raincoats for the onslaught of tears we'll get from the zerg-rushers.

I don't even know how to respond to this,

First off I only figured that it's best to move fast seems running is like 50% or more of the game, so I took wizard boundless storm playstyle, + steed mundus stone to maximilize move speed and minimalize borigness that comes in with all this running from point x to y. I Figured I'll also spend gold on wayshrines to max my travel time between tasks. If someone like to travel and play slowly then whatever but I enjoy the game my way.

Second off I'm not bored about the game, just the fact that every time I kill something sooner or later i'll do this for nothing. Like 0 chance to get any item that would be an upgrade or use for me, reward or something I can look at and be happy with that I have aquired it. Since gear is nearly unimportant killing those things also seems to be less important. Spending another 100 hours on vr3 just to see how all this jokeish item upgrades are being purged by overcharging just seems much less interesting than If I would have a chance to find something good that would serve my character.

I don't think that I rushed the game, I mean I could reach vr 5+ by now if I wouldn't look out for skyshards I've already got like 100+ skill points. I have done like 200+ quests don't know exactly but most zones including 3 veteran zones are nearly 100% completed already.

At this point and at any point it would be obvious to focus on item game and maximalize the gear on my character the problem is it is all so UNIMPORTANT and trivial it makes almoust no difference if I'll use level 50 green items or Vr3 blue ones. I thought there will be some rarity and difficulity elements included in the itemization and all there is it's just flat progression, move to another zones and you will eventuall find item that gives you 5 health more, while your overall health is already 2500 this is where you realize that all of this seems to be lacking depth that's all.

Just to sum this up, level 17 Warlock, Dragon sets in certain builds will give your character more efectivness than all this blue veteran gear you can find. This why this progression makes no sense and why I say it is terrible itemization :>

Sarenia

The game hasn't even been out a week yet and you're into veteran ranks.

How do you feel you didn't rush the game? What world are you living on?

xryanvb16_ESO

I was doing dungeons in coldhabour naked because i mean i do the same dmg with armour or without and in case i die no repair bill.... not that i died though.

Also everyone is in the VR ranks catch up casual.

KerinKor

ZRage wrote: »

Maybe it's me I hoped for more depth in this item game,

Min/maxing isn't what this game is trying to do, that seems what 'depth' means to you.

mutharex

KerinKor wrote: »

ZRage wrote: »

Maybe it's me I hoped for more depth in this item game,

Min/maxing isn't what this game is trying to do, that seems what 'depth' means to you.

Yeah weird how some people mix up "deep" and "shallow"

Gaudrath

The sort of player who tears through content like there's no tomorrow is impossible to cater for in the first place. Some game companies attempt it by simply doing fast reskins on items and shuffling numbers, but even they cannot keep up the pace. It takes hundreds of man-hours to create new content for a MMO, including new locales, quests, items etc. and when players tear through all that in a matter of days if not less, the result is inevitable.

So this is not a question of itemization and progression. Both are just fine if you play the game at an average pace and not as some sort of obsession. And it's not even obsession as in playing the game a lot - there's hundreds of hours of content available - but obsession with racing to the end.

So when you race to the end, when you do your best to gobble up content without really experiencing it (for example, when you skip quest dialogue) and then find yourself at the end of the road - why complain? It's not a problem with the game - the problem is with you.

And ZOE, just like most companies out there including Blizzard, actually do not listen to your complaints. Why? Because you do not matter. The game is designed for the average player. Not for power-levelers or people who rush through content. You are an insignificant minority of the playerbase.

So you might as well stop complaining because nobody is listening. Nobody can listen - you demand the impossible.

thjudgeman1142ub17_ESO

For me I dont understand the overcharge issue or why it is implimented... It does ruin the idea that a I can have a blue or purple lvl 10 item that essentially does nothing for me above that of a white or green due to the OVERCHARGE penalty... why? Why punish people with gimped stats because the have taken the time to kit out an alt. Does not make much sense to me.

If someone could explain I'd like to hear please. Also I think this is part of what the OP is saying.

Shimond

ZRage wrote: »

"With weapons and armor having their own skill trees, to some extent I think this is intentional. Gear is supposed to have a lower priority. Just a thought. Doesn't mean that balancing couldn't happen, but it seems very intentional that gear isn't all-important. "

I know it is intentional but it makes no sense at some point you can finish and play easy in level 50 or even Veteran zones with level 10 white items which in my opinion makes no sense and explains how inferior and uninportant high quality items are in this game.

I really can't see how can you have a good MMO without a good itemization builded - in.

Hyperbole much? Lower priority doesn't mean no priority. There is itemization in the game, you just can't become a god in higher veteran ranks vs lower veteran ranks. Since there is no distinction between pvp and pve gear, this is just something you're going to have to deal with.

Shimond

thjudgeman1142ub17_ESO wrote: »

For me I dont understand the overcharge issue or why it is implimented... It does ruin the idea that a I can have a blue or purple lvl 10 item that essentially does nothing for me above that of a white or green due to the OVERCHARGE penalty... why? Why punish people with gimped stats because the have taken the time to kit out an alt. Does not make much sense to me.

If someone could explain I'd like to hear please. Also I think this is part of what the OP is saying.

Overcharge doesn't work that way. You are still deriving benefit from those stats that are overcharged.

thjudgeman1142ub17_ESO

Hmm... Well from what I can see is once you reach the soft cap you get overcharged status... thus all XP gained (and in some cases stat inceases) in that area are greatly reduced for skill progression (unsure if for lvl progression). I read a post on another forum with a guy who was testing to see what the effects were and was at armor cap--popped lightning form and only got a 100 armor increase... hurray for his hard work kitting out or skilling up via sunstones...

This still seems way to arbitrary to limit everyone to a certain item/skill level which gimps those who are kitted out better. Not like there is a PVP server running where over skilled or kitted people would be an issue... Cyrodiil is optional and the only place it is likely of any value to the gameplay... at least at the levels they gimp now.

I admitt I could be missing the point so if anyone can explain please chime in.

metaldrummer1962b14a_ESO

Go back to WoW

Vikova

thjudgeman1142ub17_ESO wrote: »

For me I dont understand the overcharge issue or why it is implimented... It does ruin the idea that a I can have a blue or purple lvl 10 item that essentially does nothing for me above that of a white or green due to the OVERCHARGE penalty... why? Why punish people with gimped stats because the have taken the time to kit out an alt. Does not make much sense to me.

If someone could explain I'd like to hear please. Also I think this is part of what the OP is saying.

This is why games hide caps.

Overcharged isn't unique to ESO, almost all MMOs have caps. Overcharged just means the game is letting you know about it. Is it possible that they need to rebalance some of the caps? Sure, that argument can be made. But you can't argue that they shouldn't have caps at all, because all MMOs have them for very good reason. All you are doing is demonstrating why they usually hide them from the players.

Shimond

thjudgeman1142ub17_ESO wrote: »

Hmm... Well from what I can see is once you reach the soft cap you get overcharged status... thus all XP gained (and in some cases stat inceases) in that area are greatly reduced for skill progression (unsure if for lvl progression). I read a post on another forum with a guy who was testing to see what the effects were and was at armor cap--popped lightning form and only got a 100 armor increase... hurray for his hard work kitting out or skilling up via sunstones...

This still seems way to arbitrary to limit everyone to a certain item/skill level which gimps those who are kitted out better. Not like there is a PVP server running where over skilled or kitted people would be an issue... Cyrodiil is optional and the only place it is likely of any value to the gameplay... at least at the levels they gimp now.

I admitt I could be missing the point so if anyone can explain please chime in.

I'm really not sure what you're talking about. Overcharged stats has absolutely nothing to do with skill or character xp.

All overcharged means is you've hit the 'soft' cap, which means additional increases give you less (but not 0) gains. They exist in every MMO I've played (called 'diminishing returns') but it's usually not advertised in this fashion. Probably why people aren't even aware of them or what they mean.

Teroh

People need to stop treating lvl 50 like end game. LVL 50 is less than 33% of your leveling experience. Him Being VR3 isnt hard to do. I'm VR1 probably would be VR2 if last bug wasn't blocking me, and I have a full time job, going to the gym and spend time with friends/family.

So him complaining isnt about him rushing to "endgame"