... and Imperial City is still empty, irrelevant and a horrible PvP idea

Scaletho

That's it. Zero solution for the vast emptiness of beautiful Imperial City, the insistence to keep PvE quests (and FISHING for heck sake) in a horrible idea of PvP. Update 50, 2, 1, 51 (and tomes and nowhere keys and dynamics and Thieves) and not a SINGLE mention on what to do with that place badly conceived.

Well, let's move on shall we?

JohnRingo

Scaletho wrote: »

That's it. Zero solution for the vast emptiness of beautiful Imperial City, the insistence to keep PvE quests (and FISHING for heck sake) in a horrible idea of PvP. Update 50, 2, 1, 51 (and tomes and nowhere keys and dynamics and Thieves) and not a SINGLE mention on what to do with that place badly conceived.

Well, let's move on shall we?

Well. you always have Vengeance...

Gagoimaliu

Imperial City is like a weird limbo, I never hear anyone on the PVP side mention it, and whenever I hear PVEers mention it it's always "you can do it BUT you need a pvp build", it's like a zone that appeals to nobody

The easy idea would be to just split them into two instances, but I don't know if that feasible. IC is technically the epilogue to the base game story (Or at least, the last part of the Planemeld questline) and locking it behind PVP is such a weird choice

OsUfi

Gagoimaliu wrote: »

(Or at least, the last part of the Planemeld questline) and locking it behind PVP is such a weird choice

I agree... And also disagree. It was odd making it a PvP zone, but I feel the combination of meaner mobs, PvP, ganking, the running you initially do between buildings do the story and quest, never knowing who or what you'll run in to. Even the wandering bosses and those vicious banner bearers in the sewers. It all combined to create an fantastic and unique atmosphere of a desperate city, at the center of the three banner war, while also being assaulted by Molag Bal.

It's such a unique experience that I just don't think could be replicated in a PvE only zone. And if you make it a PvE only zone, then the story and atmosphere would suffer.

React

IC and the sewers are the best designed open world pvp area in any game, ever. Some of the coolest terrain in the entire game to fight in, unique pvpve experiences, etc.

It was abandoned years ago. They should have been regularly adding rewards this whole time, or it should have been reworked into an FFA style small scale pvp zone at some point to draw interest. Its a ghost town now because of the neglect, but it wasn't always that way.

Callosum

React wrote: »

IC and the sewers are the best designed open world pvp area in any game, ever. Some of the coolest terrain in the entire game to fight in, unique pvpve experiences, etc.

It was abandoned years ago. They should have been regularly adding rewards this whole time, or it should have been reworked into an FFA style small scale pvp zone at some point to draw interest. Its a ghost town now because of the neglect, but it wasn't always that way.

Agree.

Free for all battle royal campaign with one district closing at a time would be quite interesting

Luneca

"Pro" Sorc here chiming in:

IC is dead? No! It seems pretty lively for Vamp Sorc me.

At least until I've thoroughly antagonized everyone there while hiding behind my meager shields, meager sustain, and absolutely abysmal damage.

I almost got taken out by an NB before my HP dropped and all my automated shields stacked up with my regular ones and I used an invist pot and struck back. Poor NB tired to cloak, and he learned the hard way not to mess with the weakest class in the game when I Streaked right through him and dropped that Dawnbreaker.

When he came back with friends, I just ran into Stealth reepeatedly and baited them near the bosses. The bosses dropped their HP but not mine thanks to all of the shields I have that are put on me for doing absolutely nothing thanks to my CP distribution. Their HP dropping like that is a skill issue.

After that I just needed to spam Streak, one of the worst CCs in the game, to seize them up around the boss and finish them off. The DK didn't even know what hit him. I don't know why these DKs don't expect you to block Leap.

Four people wanted to challenge me. They all lost and realized never to mess with a Sorc, the weakest class in the game.

When they messaged me and accused me of being a cheater, I told them that they shouldn't have attempted to mess with poor little always-nerfed Sorc me. They said they were coming back with 12 people and that I better not go back without giving them the chance to get their Tel Var back.

Oh man, that was scary. You know I had to go back and bank that Tel Var just in case. I don't know who the hell was coming, it could have been people even more pro than me.

After all, there's like 12 people coming, there is no way a PRO like me would challenge all 12 without a contingency.

Ah, Contingency speaking of that, it played a huge part in wiping all of them out. Though it took a moment when four other Sorcs decided they were going to spam Streak back. All I had to do was use a CC pot. Which I can always do since my mag and Stam never drop, courtesy of the passives and masteries on the weakest and most victimized class in the game.

But because I have an automated cleanse, I pretended to be stuck and unable to CC break for them to come close. And once freed by the automated cleanse (you do not get CC immunity when it is cleansed by any means other than break free or a set/effect specifically targeting removing CC*) then I used the pot, streaked through them and wiped them out. I jumped around after they died because I already got a warning the last time for "flipping the bird" emote. Yeah, I got warned for using a emote in the game that exists for what other purpose besides then? Can you believe that?

They then messaged me again and asked what I was wearing and doing. And being the "pro" Sorc that I am, I told them that the secret was in the Agility set. But I'm not wearing Agility. I would never wear something so garbage.At any rate, those guys don't need to know what it actually was they were facing because if they build like me, then I might get exposed and we can't have that.

Some said they were never entering IC again. I asked them why. And they said PvP sucked and it wasn't balanced. Imagine having so much sodium chloride and it's not even a weekend yet. I DEMANDED that they not quit, but they blocked me instead and called me really inappropriate words I dare not say on the forums. I've been warned enough after all!

I don't know why they were so hostile. One even argued with me from his Necro that I was carried by Sorc. Necro, the class that someone used in the 4v4v4 to wipe me out with 7 other people. Does he not know how OP Necros are in PvP? He had to be trolling!

Does he not know how hard it is to be "pro" Sorc this patch? I mean, even I know the build I am using is unfair and ridiculous but...!

Ah...hold up. I'm doing it again. I'm doubting if I am really "pro" Sorc. It was fair. It was balanced. Should have never messed with me,

"Pro" Sorc.

LadyGP

React wrote: »

IC and the sewers are the best designed open world pvp area in any game, ever. Some of the coolest terrain in the entire game to fight in, unique pvpve experiences, etc.

It was abandoned years ago. They should have been regularly adding rewards this whole time, or it should have been reworked into an FFA style small scale pvp zone at some point to draw interest. Its a ghost town now because of the neglect, but it wasn't always that way.

Agreed. I remember running with groups down there and it was absolute chaos (in a good way). Had tons of fun exploring and making it to the end of the sewers.. pure bliss.

But yeah, it's kind of in a "I've done that" state and there is no real incentive to go down there anymore. Shame really.

-xcatguy

SilverIce58

The fishing honestly was not that bad. I got killed once for fishing under a flag, then everyone left me alone largely, and I even got out of there after 3 days. Just gotta go during a time of day when your server's population is at work. Hardly anyone in there, and all they care about is flipping flags and killing people on the IC streets. Nobody ever really checked out the fishing spots.

FluffyDoom

IC used to be a fun a very long long time ago. It's still a fantastic area visually and the story questline is pretty good. Gankers and trolls (tanks with no damage/unkillable without a large group that keep you in combat to prevent you from leaving) have made it a no-go for years now sadly.

Players that want to explore the zone, do the questline/daily quests, farm the telvar, pvp fairly are targets of gankers/trolls who do not risk any telvar loss because they almost always carry no telvar themselves! No risk - all reward for gankers who really do nothing but ruin the gameplay of others - yeah yeah yeah, it's a pvp zone but how is it fair that gankers can steal 50% of a players telvar but if you do kill the ganker you get zero?

Would love to see a system where you can't take more telvar than you are carry. Seems like a good suggestion for ZOS to consider:

https://elderscrollsonline-feedback.featureupvote.com/suggestions/724230/imperial-city-ic-telvar-rewards-for-a-player-kill-limited-by-the-amount-of-telva

RedMamba

Best PvP area in the game and they have put zero effort into it since launch.

CoronHR

i think it's a great area. i sometimes wish for a 'fixed' IC which is beautiful, rid of daedra and peaceful. but as it is, as a pvp zone, i think it's interesting. the sewers are legit scary sometimes. i used to hate losing 50% tel var when killed, but i don't care anymore.

katanagirl1

I used to like just farming tel var in the sewers from the mobs there on my PvE stamblade but there is something seriously wrong with performance there in an empty campaign now. The flickering low frame rate is unbearable.

Kartalin

I miss the double tel var events that really brought the population down there and you could enjoy all manner of encounters throughout both the city and the sewers

Tandor

Make a PvE instance and most players will use it, leave any PvP element and very few will use it. Mixing PvP and PvE together in a zone was a mistake not to be repeated, as ZOS have previously acknowledged.

Taarente

I quite like Imperial City. It wasn’t always my thing and you don’t seem to get large groups fighting often now like the old days. The district bosses are quite tough, as well as the jeopardy of some git stabbing you in the back and stealing your tel var. Also the roaming bosses in the sewers are hard, If you can solo them then well done. However take a proper pvp build in and be prepared to get melted from out of nowhere.

Arunei

React wrote: »

IC and the sewers are the best designed open world pvp area in any game, ever. Some of the coolest terrain in the entire game to fight in, unique pvpve experiences, etc.

It was abandoned years ago. They should have been regularly adding rewards this whole time, or it should have been reworked into an FFA style small scale pvp zone at some point to draw interest. Its a ghost town now because of the neglect, but it wasn't always that way.

I feel like the bigger thing keeping people from IC is less it being neglected and more the fact that you lose so much of your TV for dying to other people, and because of that the main playstyle there is to just gank and bomb people. I think if it was less TV upon death and more actual upfront fighting like in Cryo there would be more activity. But a lot of folks aren't keen on essentially doing all the work for a gank or bomb build to then come along and take half of said work with little to no effort or real counterplay.

They'd probably have to add a lot more things like Skins, Polymorphs (than just the three Daedric ones), Mounts, REALLY GOOD Furniture, and other such things to get people back into IC in any considerable number. Especially if these things only relied on how many TV you earn and auto-unlocked upon getting that many, rather than needing to be actively bought with them. I feel like people would be a little less annoyed at losing a chunk of TV if the cool thing they were trying to unlock wasn't impacted by said loss.

And it should go without saying that these things could unlock after large amounts of TV had been gained, say 50k, 100k, 200k, whatever, to get ahead of anyone going "you just want rewards without effort".

Just_Attivi

I think part of the issue is the population there.

most avid PVPers actually really like IC, for the reasons React mentioned. However, too often its literally empty, or 1 person doign arena dailies from the safety of the tower or only showing up in full tank or runaway builds to avoid PVP, OR the opposite extreme of full guild runs where 30 people zerg down the 1 opposing player. So its either not enough action to maintain PVPer attention, or Full on Zerged to death for an hour.

PVE'ers dont love it for the reasons we all know: Tel var loss and PVP scary.

This creates an environment where no one wants to go down there from either side of the fence.

I think adding incentives, as some mentioned, would help, or reconnecting it in some way to cyrodiil (before everyone starts whining about it being locked unless youre emp, im not suggesting that, as much as maybe there are significant bonuses if your alliance is emp, which in turn could also help push some people out of overcrowded cyrodiil instances and into IC, or maybe the vaults cost a ton less if your team is emp or something). Other incentives could be, as others stated, items/mounts/skins/etc. Or the strongest incentive to get PVPers down there: Add harder to attain PVE rewards for telvar/keys/whatever. As someone who had no PVE guilds, and the current state of pugs being what they are, getting trial gear is tough (nCR+2 for rings wiped several pug groups on repeat because "what are mechanics i just pew pew pew" mentality of many ). as a PVPer, If i knew i could either pug out trials for hours and probably whiff because stepping out of red circles is hard for many, or go PVP in IC this week for CR gear, and next week for Sanctum gear, etc, I 100% would be PVPing in IC a heck of a lot more.

Im sure people will whine about the thought of trial gear in PVP, but it definitely would get people in the sewers a lot more, since its rewards that would interest a larger audience, and couldnt be bought on auction.

React

Tandor wrote: »

Make a PvE instance and most players will use it, leave any PvP element and very few will use it. Mixing PvP and PvE together in a zone was a mistake not to be repeated, as ZOS have previously acknowledged.

They'll use it as what? Another overland difficulty zone with world boss-difficulty bosses? We've got like 40 of those or something, meanwhile there is two (soon to be three) pvp zones.

React

Arunei wrote: »

React wrote: »

IC and the sewers are the best designed open world pvp area in any game, ever. Some of the coolest terrain in the entire game to fight in, unique pvpve experiences, etc.

It was abandoned years ago. They should have been regularly adding rewards this whole time, or it should have been reworked into an FFA style small scale pvp zone at some point to draw interest. Its a ghost town now because of the neglect, but it wasn't always that way.

I feel like the bigger thing keeping people from IC is less it being neglected and more the fact that you lose so much of your TV for dying to other people, and because of that the main playstyle there is to just gank and bomb people. I think if it was less TV upon death and more actual upfront fighting like in Cryo there would be more activity. But a lot of folks aren't keen on essentially doing all the work for a gank or bomb build to then come along and take half of said work with little to no effort or real counterplay.

They'd probably have to add a lot more things like Skins, Polymorphs (than just the three Daedric ones), Mounts, REALLY GOOD Furniture, and other such things to get people back into IC in any considerable number. Especially if these things only relied on how many TV you earn and auto-unlocked upon getting that many, rather than needing to be actively bought with them. I feel like people would be a little less annoyed at losing a chunk of TV if the cool thing they were trying to unlock wasn't impacted by said loss.

And it should go without saying that these things could unlock after large amounts of TV had been gained, say 50k, 100k, 200k, whatever, to get ahead of anyone going "you just want rewards without effort".

So I disagree about telvar loss on death - it is one of the only systems in the entire game that truly rewards pvp skill. You can earn the most telvar by being the most dominant player in IC and being able to farm bosses while killing anyone who challenges you. Sort of like how in OSRS, the best way to make gold is to be at the highest level of pvp skill. I think it is great for rewarding systems like this to exist.

But I do agree that they need to expand on the rewards, and also provide rewards that aren't strictly related to how much telvar you can bank. I wrote a very detailed post a few years ago about how they could introduce a new ranking system based on telvar gain in IC (similar to alliance rank), with some very aspirational long term grinds and rewards for the highest level. I really feel like if they did that, reworked IC to an "ffa" style zone with a group cap of 4-6 or so, and added new telvar rewards and travel mechanics, it could be something that would be popular amongst pvp and pve players alike.

Personofsecrets

Now that it takes forever to leave IC, I'm not so interested in the experience. It was easier than ever to get stones during thise years Mayhem low population. Usually I get 1 to 1.5 million during mayhem. This year I got maybe 800k if I'm being generous. The oppressive builds that exist on WW and other typs of Sorcs would be enough reason to not go into IC on their own even without having to run through the sewers like a bozo everytime one wants to do something else.

joergino

SilverIce58 wrote: »

The fishing honestly was not that bad. I got killed once for fishing under a flag, then everyone left me alone largely, and I even got out of there after 3 days. Just gotta go during a time of day when your server's population is at work. Hardly anyone in there, and all they care about is flipping flags and killing people on the IC streets. Nobody ever really checked out the fishing spots.

Yeah. I did the IC fishing during that festival at two in the morning. There was no other player anywhere to be seen until I was done.

ketsparrowhawk

Molag Bal in the sewer should be the hardest boss in the game, requiring 12+ players. Make a zone-wide announcement when Molag Bal is being challenged so others can come get in on it. And the rewards should be greatly increased. Also better drops from the other bosses/banner bosses. Give people a good reason to run through the sewers. Best PvP environment in the game it's a shame it's always empty.

Goregram1

they just need to refresh the loot pool i remember back on ps3 always running it with a few different guilds every night for years it was hella fun just needs pop an loot

Daoin

yeah over the years i have met plenty of folks eager to get to and enjoy going to IC and the sewers, just a matter of there being so many other things to be able to do rather than go IC feel weak on your good pve char and and one shotted but IC usually comes around though at some point

TankHealz2015

I really like the combo of PvE and PvP together in IC.

However, I avoid going there...

1. There is dis- incentive to group with allies. Strong players don't want to group because there loot is negatively affected. So your mostly left solo unless you entered with someone... and for an average player getting solo ganked over and over and over again .... Less fun

2. Now with the super low telvar cap /can't leave unless you run to the storm drain and them thru the sewers.... Also less fun.


If the grouping penalty were reworked or adjusted in some way.... Maybe more people (like myself) would go there...

Viridian_Wizard

It's where PvP players make gold

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

I really like the combo of PvE and PvP together in IC.

However, I avoid going there...

1. There is dis- incentive to group with allies. Strong players don't want to group because there loot is negatively affected. So your mostly left solo unless you entered with someone... and for an average player getting solo ganked over and over and over again .... Less fun

2. Now with the super low telvar cap /can't leave unless you run to the storm drain and them thru the sewers.... Also less fun.


If the grouping penalty were reworked or adjusted in some way.... Maybe more people (like myself) would go there...

You can also leave by the door to the imperial city prison in memorial district, it's better than going to base through sewers.

warm_blanket

IC is amongst the best content in the entire game. Nothing else even comes close to offering the same breadth of experience.

It's just had no content updates since it was dropped over a decade(!) ago. The currency and vendor updates are ok but they aren't content.

You'd expect to have new bosses added to the rotation for every district, dropping their own unique monster sets per major update. Nothing stopping them from adding new loot to the sewer bosses either.

Both the districts and sewers have plenty of room for additional mini-encounters with their own unique rewards. A telvar earned leaderboard would be nice too.

As far as the telvar loss mechanic goes it's very generous. Even if you die immediately to every player you come across you'll always make a profit so long as you bank it on respawn.

katanagirl1

When was the last time there was an IC event? It wasn’t part of Whitestrake’s this time.

It would be a more enjoyable event if you aren’t required to get tickets from it like Whitestrake’s was this year. It can be fun going to IC if you know there will be other players in your faction and you won’t be alone. Right now it’s 3 empty bars all the time.

Gagoimaliu

OsUfi wrote: »

Gagoimaliu wrote: »

(Or at least, the last part of the Planemeld questline) and locking it behind PVP is such a weird choice

I agree... And also disagree. It was odd making it a PvP zone, but I feel the combination of meaner mobs, PvP, ganking, the running you initially do between buildings do the story and quest, never knowing who or what you'll run in to. Even the wandering bosses and those vicious banner bearers in the sewers. It all combined to create an fantastic and unique atmosphere of a desperate city, at the center of the three banner war, while also being assaulted by Molag Bal.

It's such a unique experience that I just don't think could be replicated in a PvE only zone. And if you make it a PvE only zone, then the story and atmosphere would suffer.

I get what they were going for, and if they invested in the zone nowadays I think it might even be a great idea, I just think most people who aren't PVPers won't want or care to do it because they think they'll need an entire build just to do the zone story.

I know that's definitely one reason I haven't done IC yet, and I've done every DLC up to Summerset except IC, maybe when I finally get my PVP toon ready I'll give it a shot

Sleep724

There was a time IC had instant respawns and it lead to non-stop pvp battles of all kinds. Was some of the best pvp experience I've had in this game.