Ball groups and immunities.

Alchimiste1

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Luneca

Perma snare immunity should not be in the game, and if it is , it should cost more than it does. It makes zero sense to have a tactic only counterable by a limited set of things, then to have those things be completely removed as a counter that barely has a cost attached to it.

It would eventually tilt balance in a way that makes counters cease to exist, which is exactly the problem there is on Live.

I already know someone will go "but muh bar slots " and "but muh mythics" -- it's already been explained elsewhere that in a organized group those sacrifices are less impactful than it is for anyone that isn't in one. But even then, the mythic argument is flat when there's other builds and decisions that force some people into not wearing a mythic at all.

Giving up a mythic slot isn't a real sacrifice, and even if it were, what can a mythic offer in that space that the rest of the group could not? What could the bar space offer that the rest of the group could not?

And everyone knows what the answer is...

rockDokRock

Reading all this stuff about ball groups makes me glad I've never ventured into PvP. Sounds like a right clown show.

Alchimiste1

rockDokRock wrote: »

Reading all this stuff about ball groups makes me glad I've never ventured into PvP. Sounds like a right clown show.

perhaps I should have put this in the pvp section

LadyGP

rockDokRock wrote: »

Reading all this stuff about ball groups makes me glad I've never ventured into PvP. Sounds like a right clown show.

ZoS refuses to even comment on threads where the word "ballgroup" is mentioned. Look through all the threads.. literally the only thing you'll see is mods saying get on topic, or they removed pots for being rude.

There is 100% an internal coms blackout on ball groups.

Why... great freaking question. It's almost like zos thinks if they just close their eyes and pretend.. then everything is okay.

- xcatguy

LadyGP

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

rockDokRock wrote: »

Reading all this stuff about ball groups makes me glad I've never ventured into PvP. Sounds like a right clown show.

perhaps I should have put this in the pvp section

Nope. Front and center is exactly where it needs to be. PvP section of the forum is where posts go to die and zos knows it.

Major_Mangle

Couldn't agree more. I've brought it up myself before. Before snowthreaders/banner we had dedicated "rapid bots" giving snare/root immunity for the entire group (and it was still just as unbalanced).

Having permanent snare/root immunity shouldn't be a thing. As much as I like zos trying to tackle shield- and healstacking, it won't do much until they find a solution for things like threaders and banner. Snare and root immunity is one of those things each player should've to take care of themselves (aka spend a GCD every now and then to keep up) for the sake of balance and counterplay on both ends.

Now, no one likes being permanently rooted or snared. We've had such metas in the past and it was awful. So if zos ever adress banner/threaders, I suggest increasing the root/snare immunity to be the same as regular cc immunity (6-7 seconds).

LadyGP

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. I've brought it up myself before. Before snowthreaders/banner we had dedicated "rapid bots" giving snare/root immunity for the entire group (and it was still just as unbalanced).

Having permanent snare/root immunity shouldn't be a thing. As much as I like zos trying to tackle shield- and healstacking, it won't do much until they find a solution for things like threaders and banner. Snare and root immunity is one of those things each player should've to take care of themselves (aka spend a GCD every now and then to keep up) for the sake of balance and counterplay on both ends.

Now, no one likes being permanently rooted or snared. We've had such metas in the past and it was awful. So if zos ever adress banner/threaders, I suggest increasing the root/snare immunity to be the same as regular cc immunity (6-7 seconds).

I will say...

Beterrn glyphs, treaders, rapids, pots, there is usually a super small window where they can be cc'ed. The problem is when you've got 40 people trying to kill a ball group.. they are all spamming cc's on the group so they are pretty much always granted immunity because of this.

Theres a lot of aspects to this conversation. Maybe add some immunity modifiier based on group size...idk.

hollow_winds

LadyGP wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. I've brought it up myself before. Before snowthreaders/banner we had dedicated "rapid bots" giving snare/root immunity for the entire group (and it was still just as unbalanced).

Having permanent snare/root immunity shouldn't be a thing. As much as I like zos trying to tackle shield- and healstacking, it won't do much until they find a solution for things like threaders and banner. Snare and root immunity is one of those things each player should've to take care of themselves (aka spend a GCD every now and then to keep up) for the sake of balance and counterplay on both ends.

Now, no one likes being permanently rooted or snared. We've had such metas in the past and it was awful. So if zos ever adress banner/threaders, I suggest increasing the root/snare immunity to be the same as regular cc immunity (6-7 seconds).

I will say...

Beterrn glyphs, treaders, rapids, pots, there is usually a super small window where they can be cc'ed. The problem is when you've got 40 people trying to kill a ball group.. they are all spamming cc's on the group so they are pretty much always granted immunity because of this.

Theres a lot of aspects to this conversation. Maybe add some immunity modifiier based on group size...idk.

Sometimes I'll stay at distance and use Repelling Explosion to knock them off the 3rd floor, lol. Do that a few times and they end up just dipping out of the keep altogether. It's not the most effective way to deal with a BG but it's probably the most fun to see them getting launched to the courtyard

LadyGP

hollow_winds wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. I've brought it up myself before. Before snowthreaders/banner we had dedicated "rapid bots" giving snare/root immunity for the entire group (and it was still just as unbalanced).

Having permanent snare/root immunity shouldn't be a thing. As much as I like zos trying to tackle shield- and healstacking, it won't do much until they find a solution for things like threaders and banner. Snare and root immunity is one of those things each player should've to take care of themselves (aka spend a GCD every now and then to keep up) for the sake of balance and counterplay on both ends.

Now, no one likes being permanently rooted or snared. We've had such metas in the past and it was awful. So if zos ever adress banner/threaders, I suggest increasing the root/snare immunity to be the same as regular cc immunity (6-7 seconds).

I will say...

Beterrn glyphs, treaders, rapids, pots, there is usually a super small window where they can be cc'ed. The problem is when you've got 40 people trying to kill a ball group.. they are all spamming cc's on the group so they are pretty much always granted immunity because of this.

Theres a lot of aspects to this conversation. Maybe add some immunity modifiier based on group size...idk.

Sometimes I'll stay at distance and use Repelling Explosion to knock them off the 3rd floor, lol. Do that a few times and they end up just dipping out of the keep altogether. It's not the most effective way to deal with a BG but it's probably the most fun to see them getting launched to the courtyard

Yup,t his is pretty much the only way to kill one of the top 3-5 ball groups.

You either knock one out of a keep.. or one gets pulled out of group (asusming it's not a dps) and then you start to finally see their bars move.

It's the current state of pvp and dang is it annoying.

- xcatguy

Four_Fingers

Yep, sucks having to use strategy. 😉

hollow_winds

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Yep, sucks having to use strategy. 😉

I say the same thing when ballgroup players swarm these forums asking for needs to everything that hinders them.

SneaK

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

hollow_winds

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

At the same time though...majority of ballgroups are the ones always asking for nerfs to sets, skills, etc...that hinders their group instead of adapting like solo players do. You can't have it both ways. You want to continue steamrolling solos/pugs but then whine about things that solos/pugs use to wipe/hinder your group, just silly

SneaK

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

At the same time though...majority of ballgroups are the ones always asking for nerfs to sets, skills, etc...that hinders their group instead of adapting like solo players do. You can't have it both ways. You want to continue steamrolling solos/pugs but then whine about things that solos/pugs use to wipe/hinder your group, just silly

I dont run in a group anymore, everyone quit.

Show me a BG crown on here asking for nerfs to sets.

hollow_winds

SneaK wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

At the same time though...majority of ballgroups are the ones always asking for nerfs to sets, skills, etc...that hinders their group instead of adapting like solo players do. You can't have it both ways. You want to continue steamrolling solos/pugs but then whine about things that solos/pugs use to wipe/hinder your group, just silly

I dont run in a group anymore, everyone quit.

Show me a BG crown on here asking for nerfs to sets.

I didn't say a BG crown.

Go back and look at the several threads about Azureblight. That wasn't solo/pugs asking for a nerf, it was nerfed because BG's didn't like what it was doing, so..it caught a nerf, lol. Same with Sloads, Plaguebreak, Harmony Cro...all nerfed because they were hindering BG's from their play style, so they whined and got what they asked for. There's two threads up right now even where a BG player is openly asking for Negates to catch a nerf along with the upcoming shield update.

You can say ballgroups aren't the problem but they sure do end up getting their way quite a bit.

SneaK

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

At the same time though...majority of ballgroups are the ones always asking for nerfs to sets, skills, etc...that hinders their group instead of adapting like solo players do. You can't have it both ways. You want to continue steamrolling solos/pugs but then whine about things that solos/pugs use to wipe/hinder your group, just silly

I dont run in a group anymore, everyone quit.

Show me a BG crown on here asking for nerfs to sets.

I didn't say a BG crown.

Go back and look at the several threads about Azureblight. That wasn't solo/pugs asking for a nerf, it was nerfed because BG's didn't like what it was doing, so..it caught a nerf, lol. Same with Sloads, Plaguebreak, Harmony Cro...all nerfed because they were hindering BG's from their play style, so they whined and got what they asked for. There's two threads up right now even where a BG player is openly asking for Negates to catch a nerf along with the upcoming shield update.

You can say ballgroups aren't the problem but they sure do end up getting their way quite a bit.

I’ve not done any homework on Azureblight, but I know it was bugged at one point..

Sloads was broken wayyyy back in the first proc meta, pretty sure the folks that whined most about that were people that got ganked. Plaguebreak was another one that was broken when it was introduced, sets like that required nothing to be successful other than a light attack. C’mon now

Harmony was most effective in a BG, not sure why they complain about it.

Two threads up about negates? Guess I didn’t see those. I mostly see posts about BGs being too strong from a “solo” POV.

NovelliESO

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

At the same time though...majority of ballgroups are the ones always asking for nerfs to sets, skills, etc...that hinders their group instead of adapting like solo players do. You can't have it both ways. You want to continue steamrolling solos/pugs but then whine about things that solos/pugs use to wipe/hinder your group, just silly

I dont run in a group anymore, everyone quit.

Show me a BG crown on here asking for nerfs to sets.

I didn't say a BG crown.

Go back and look at the several threads about Azureblight. That wasn't solo/pugs asking for a nerf, it was nerfed because BG's didn't like what it was doing, so..it caught a nerf, lol. Same with Sloads, Plaguebreak, Harmony Cro...all nerfed because they were hindering BG's from their play style, so they whined and got what they asked for. There's two threads up right now even where a BG player is openly asking for Negates to catch a nerf along with the upcoming shield update.

You can say ballgroups aren't the problem but they sure do end up getting their way quite a bit.

I mean, this is just objectively wrong. Ballgroups did not complain about sloads. This was a single target DoT set, why would a ballgroup ever complain about that? Ballgroups were also the people who utilized harmony more than anyone and they weren't the ones to try and get it nerfed. Plaguebreak explosion does more damage now than it did before, it just doesn't proc off of NPCs, and with a 20s per person cooldown if you are fighting a ballgroup you can just apply it to other people in the ballgroup to do the exact same thing it otherwise would have.

As far as nerfing goes, I and many other ballgroups usually call for nerfs to what ballgroups are already doing, excess shielding, healing, etc. Ballgroups don't target things that single people or smaller groups are doing to them. But if someone comes on the forums, and argues in bad faith or is just completely wrong, like this comment I am replying to is, I will always call it out.

Alchimiste1

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

None of those are the same. There is a big difference in having 100% snare immunity. No one benefits as much from banner/snow treader 100% immunity as ball groups. Do you think people who use rats/purge/shuffle never get snared/rooted? With banner/ snow treaders you never have to think about it. With all those other ones you use it as a reaction/anticipation to being snared or rooted. Purge in particular is a very bad way to deal with snares. Anyone who played templar with just purge as a form of movement can attest to this.

BetweenMidgets

There are some groups I've played with that don't even use snowtreaders. Instead, they use the snare removals that were passive in classes, weapon skill lines, or RAT.

I think ZoS removing harmony (or reworking it) was a HUGE mistake. Another HUGE mistake is having shields scale off HP.

hollow_winds

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

At the same time though...majority of ballgroups are the ones always asking for nerfs to sets, skills, etc...that hinders their group instead of adapting like solo players do. You can't have it both ways. You want to continue steamrolling solos/pugs but then whine about things that solos/pugs use to wipe/hinder your group, just silly

I dont run in a group anymore, everyone quit.

Show me a BG crown on here asking for nerfs to sets.

I didn't say a BG crown.

Go back and look at the several threads about Azureblight. That wasn't solo/pugs asking for a nerf, it was nerfed because BG's didn't like what it was doing, so..it caught a nerf, lol. Same with Sloads, Plaguebreak, Harmony Cro...all nerfed because they were hindering BG's from their play style, so they whined and got what they asked for. There's two threads up right now even where a BG player is openly asking for Negates to catch a nerf along with the upcoming shield update.

You can say ballgroups aren't the problem but they sure do end up getting their way quite a bit.

I mean, this is just objectively wrong. Ballgroups did not complain about sloads. This was a single target DoT set, why would a ballgroup ever complain about that? Ballgroups were also the people who utilized harmony more than anyone and they weren't the ones to try and get it nerfed. Plaguebreak explosion does more damage now than it did before, it just doesn't proc off of NPCs, and with a 20s per person cooldown if you are fighting a ballgroup you can just apply it to other people in the ballgroup to do the exact same thing it otherwise would have.

As far as nerfing goes, I and many other ballgroups usually call for nerfs to what ballgroups are already doing, excess shielding, healing, etc. Ballgroups don't target things that single people or smaller groups are doing to them. But if someone comes on the forums, and argues in bad faith or is just completely wrong, like this comment I am replying to is, I will always call it out.

Let's use Azureblight then as an example. If you look at the threads and comments here that were posted, almost all of them literally called out BG's for asking for its nerf. It wasn't bugged, it wasn't broken, it was killing ballgroups and caught a nerf for doing so. It was such a poor decision that even the PvE players were calling for it to be reversed

NovelliESO

hollow_winds wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

At the same time though...majority of ballgroups are the ones always asking for nerfs to sets, skills, etc...that hinders their group instead of adapting like solo players do. You can't have it both ways. You want to continue steamrolling solos/pugs but then whine about things that solos/pugs use to wipe/hinder your group, just silly

I dont run in a group anymore, everyone quit.

Show me a BG crown on here asking for nerfs to sets.

I didn't say a BG crown.

Go back and look at the several threads about Azureblight. That wasn't solo/pugs asking for a nerf, it was nerfed because BG's didn't like what it was doing, so..it caught a nerf, lol. Same with Sloads, Plaguebreak, Harmony Cro...all nerfed because they were hindering BG's from their play style, so they whined and got what they asked for. There's two threads up right now even where a BG player is openly asking for Negates to catch a nerf along with the upcoming shield update.

You can say ballgroups aren't the problem but they sure do end up getting their way quite a bit.

I mean, this is just objectively wrong. Ballgroups did not complain about sloads. This was a single target DoT set, why would a ballgroup ever complain about that? Ballgroups were also the people who utilized harmony more than anyone and they weren't the ones to try and get it nerfed. Plaguebreak explosion does more damage now than it did before, it just doesn't proc off of NPCs, and with a 20s per person cooldown if you are fighting a ballgroup you can just apply it to other people in the ballgroup to do the exact same thing it otherwise would have.

As far as nerfing goes, I and many other ballgroups usually call for nerfs to what ballgroups are already doing, excess shielding, healing, etc. Ballgroups don't target things that single people or smaller groups are doing to them. But if someone comes on the forums, and argues in bad faith or is just completely wrong, like this comment I am replying to is, I will always call it out.

Let's use Azureblight then as an example. If you look at the threads and comments here that were posted, almost all of them literally called out BG's for asking for its nerf. It wasn't bugged, it wasn't broken, it was killing ballgroups and caught a nerf for doing so. It was such a poor decision that even the PvE players were calling for it to be reversed

Even if you want to use azureblight, the PvE people that were calling for it to be reverted were players who were not aware of how strong it was, or were and wanted to keep it that way. Do you think people relying on something doing a ton of damage and asking to have it back is reason to say it shouldn't be changed? This is a complete moot point. If I had a set in PvE that gave me 20,000 extra weapon and spell damage and it got nerfed and people went to the forums because they were upset it is not longer giving massive stats, does this mean it was a bad decision to nerf it? No, find a better way to make an argument, completely fallacious.

I saw those arguments as they were happening by the way, there was some person who kept coming back to one of those threads, and she was a PvE streamer, and she was being told how absurdly strong it was for PvE, she even got linked logs of all the best PvE groups running it, kept swearing that it wasn't, only to come back a month later and say "oh I got more information from PvE friends that it was in fact overpowered" even though the evidence was in front of her the entire time. Regardless, for PvP azure caused a strain on the server because of the way it had to be applied, so much so it even caused issues in BGs. I play a ton of BGs and they rarely ever have performance problems unless there is a specific issue causing them, like a specific map issue, addon issue, or interaction issue. Azureblight was changed multiple times because of the issues it caused with the server. Sure, people complained about it being OP, but it was, and I was part of a group that would run it, as a group, against other people, and it was just as overloaded. How you are saying it wasn't broken is beyond me, but the fact that you were trying to use 3 other sets you had no idea about tells me a lot about your position and your level of engagement with facts when it comes to sets in ESO.

SneaK

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

None of those are the same. There is a big difference in having 100% snare immunity. No one benefits as much from banner/snow treader 100% immunity as ball groups. Do you think people who use rats/purge/shuffle never get snared? With banner/ snow treaders you never have to think about it. With all those other ones you use it as a reaction/anticipation to being snared. Purge in particular is a very bad way to deal with snares. Anyone who played templar with just purge as a form of movement can attest to this.

I’m not against it, I’m just saying there are workarounds cause balls be ballin for long before treaders and banner existed.

Alchimiste1

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

None of those are the same. There is a big difference in having 100% snare immunity. No one benefits as much from banner/snow treader 100% immunity as ball groups. Do you think people who use rats/purge/shuffle never get snared? With banner/ snow treaders you never have to think about it. With all those other ones you use it as a reaction/anticipation to being snared. Purge in particular is a very bad way to deal with snares. Anyone who played templar with just purge as a form of movement can attest to this.

I’m not against it, I’m just saying there are workarounds cause balls be ballin for long before treaders and banner existed.

Ofc but my goal with this post isn't to eliminate the ball group play style just to curb the power. The introduction of treaders/banner made them stronger.

SneaK

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

None of those are the same. There is a big difference in having 100% snare immunity. No one benefits as much from banner/snow treader 100% immunity as ball groups. Do you think people who use rats/purge/shuffle never get snared? With banner/ snow treaders you never have to think about it. With all those other ones you use it as a reaction/anticipation to being snared. Purge in particular is a very bad way to deal with snares. Anyone who played templar with just purge as a form of movement can attest to this.

I’m not against it, I’m just saying there are workarounds cause balls be ballin for long before treaders and banner existed.

Ofc but my goal with this post isn't to eliminate the ball group play style just to curb the power. The introduction of treaders/banner made them stronger.

Fair

hollow_winds

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

At the same time though...majority of ballgroups are the ones always asking for nerfs to sets, skills, etc...that hinders their group instead of adapting like solo players do. You can't have it both ways. You want to continue steamrolling solos/pugs but then whine about things that solos/pugs use to wipe/hinder your group, just silly

I dont run in a group anymore, everyone quit.

Show me a BG crown on here asking for nerfs to sets.

I didn't say a BG crown.

Go back and look at the several threads about Azureblight. That wasn't solo/pugs asking for a nerf, it was nerfed because BG's didn't like what it was doing, so..it caught a nerf, lol. Same with Sloads, Plaguebreak, Harmony Cro...all nerfed because they were hindering BG's from their play style, so they whined and got what they asked for. There's two threads up right now even where a BG player is openly asking for Negates to catch a nerf along with the upcoming shield update.

You can say ballgroups aren't the problem but they sure do end up getting their way quite a bit.

I mean, this is just objectively wrong. Ballgroups did not complain about sloads. This was a single target DoT set, why would a ballgroup ever complain about that? Ballgroups were also the people who utilized harmony more than anyone and they weren't the ones to try and get it nerfed. Plaguebreak explosion does more damage now than it did before, it just doesn't proc off of NPCs, and with a 20s per person cooldown if you are fighting a ballgroup you can just apply it to other people in the ballgroup to do the exact same thing it otherwise would have.

As far as nerfing goes, I and many other ballgroups usually call for nerfs to what ballgroups are already doing, excess shielding, healing, etc. Ballgroups don't target things that single people or smaller groups are doing to them. But if someone comes on the forums, and argues in bad faith or is just completely wrong, like this comment I am replying to is, I will always call it out.

Let's use Azureblight then as an example. If you look at the threads and comments here that were posted, almost all of them literally called out BG's for asking for its nerf. It wasn't bugged, it wasn't broken, it was killing ballgroups and caught a nerf for doing so. It was such a poor decision that even the PvE players were calling for it to be reversed

Even if you want to use azureblight, the PvE people that were calling for it to be reverted were players who were not aware of how strong it was, or were and wanted to keep it that way. Do you think people relying on something doing a ton of damage and asking to have it back is reason to say it shouldn't be changed? This is a complete moot point. If I had a set in PvE that gave me 20,000 extra weapon and spell damage and it got nerfed and people went to the forums because they were upset it is not longer giving massive stats, does this mean it was a bad decision to nerf it? No, find a better way to make an argument, completely fallacious.

I saw those arguments as they were happening by the way, there was some person who kept coming back to one of those threads, and she was a PvE streamer, and she was being told how absurdly strong it was for PvE, she even got linked logs of all the best PvE groups running it, kept swearing that it wasn't, only to come back a month later and say "oh I got more information from PvE friends that it was in fact overpowered" even though the evidence was in front of her the entire time. Regardless, for PvP azure caused a strain on the server because of the way it had to be applied, so much so it even caused issues in BGs. I play a ton of BGs and they rarely ever have performance problems unless there is a specific issue causing them, like a specific map issue, addon issue, or interaction issue. Azureblight was changed multiple times because of the issues it caused with the server. Sure, people complained about it being OP, but it was, and I was part of a group that would run it, as a group, against other people, and it was just as overloaded. How you are saying it wasn't broken is beyond me, but the fact that you were trying to use 3 other sets you had no idea about tells me a lot about your position and your level of engagement with facts when it comes to sets in ESO.

And the people that complained about it being OP was who...? You know the answer but you're a known BG player so I understand your stance on trying to defend your play style from these types of posts and comments, something that may slow your group just a fraction deserves the nerf and anyone who doesn't run in a sweaty, comped group just needs to learn skill and build their own sweaty, comp group.

Here's the thing that most BG players fail to understand and to be honest, I'm not sure why. Solo players, PUGS and the like aren't even asking for the removal of BG's or it's play style. I've even said before that these comped groups SHOULD wipe uncomped solos and pugs, that's just reality. The issue with these groups and currently is that with the current meta comps you all run, it does in fact make you incredibly Godlike and unkillable in most instances. A group of 12 being able to withstand multiple siege weapons 40+ solos throwing everything at them is just downright ridiculous. I'm sure you'll disagree but as others have stated here, that's not healthy for the already dwindling Cyro population. Again, read around these forums, more and more players are either logging out or they just stop playing altogether and you can't really blame them and the solution to "Well they just need to build their own group" is just ignorant. Not everyone wants to build a strict comp build and run in a group. Ballgroups should exist sure, but as it stands, there's hardly any viable counter to them and if there is one other than "building your own group" then please enlighten us.

What's funny to me is I have a strong feeling that these modern day ballgroups wouldn't do too well compared to how ballgroups used to be, no pull sets, no insane shields and some of these group buff sets. They would farm sure, but they were also easier to counter and it took more skill than what we currently see within them

hoangdz

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

At the same time though...majority of ballgroups are the ones always asking for nerfs to sets, skills, etc...that hinders their group instead of adapting like solo players do. You can't have it both ways. You want to continue steamrolling solos/pugs but then whine about things that solos/pugs use to wipe/hinder your group, just silly

I dont run in a group anymore, everyone quit.

Show me a BG crown on here asking for nerfs to sets.

I didn't say a BG crown.

Go back and look at the several threads about Azureblight. That wasn't solo/pugs asking for a nerf, it was nerfed because BG's didn't like what it was doing, so..it caught a nerf, lol. Same with Sloads, Plaguebreak, Harmony Cro...all nerfed because they were hindering BG's from their play style, so they whined and got what they asked for. There's two threads up right now even where a BG player is openly asking for Negates to catch a nerf along with the upcoming shield update.

You can say ballgroups aren't the problem but they sure do end up getting their way quite a bit.

I mean, this is just objectively wrong. Ballgroups did not complain about sloads. This was a single target DoT set, why would a ballgroup ever complain about that? Ballgroups were also the people who utilized harmony more than anyone and they weren't the ones to try and get it nerfed. Plaguebreak explosion does more damage now than it did before, it just doesn't proc off of NPCs, and with a 20s per person cooldown if you are fighting a ballgroup you can just apply it to other people in the ballgroup to do the exact same thing it otherwise would have.

As far as nerfing goes, I and many other ballgroups usually call for nerfs to what ballgroups are already doing, excess shielding, healing, etc. Ballgroups don't target things that single people or smaller groups are doing to them. But if someone comes on the forums, and argues in bad faith or is just completely wrong, like this comment I am replying to is, I will always call it out.

Let's use Azureblight then as an example. If you look at the threads and comments here that were posted, almost all of them literally called out BG's for asking for its nerf. It wasn't bugged, it wasn't broken, it was killing ballgroups and caught a nerf for doing so. It was such a poor decision that even the PvE players were calling for it to be reversed

Even if you want to use azureblight, the PvE people that were calling for it to be reverted were players who were not aware of how strong it was, or were and wanted to keep it that way. Do you think people relying on something doing a ton of damage and asking to have it back is reason to say it shouldn't be changed? This is a complete moot point. If I had a set in PvE that gave me 20,000 extra weapon and spell damage and it got nerfed and people went to the forums because they were upset it is not longer giving massive stats, does this mean it was a bad decision to nerf it? No, find a better way to make an argument, completely fallacious.

I saw those arguments as they were happening by the way, there was some person who kept coming back to one of those threads, and she was a PvE streamer, and she was being told how absurdly strong it was for PvE, she even got linked logs of all the best PvE groups running it, kept swearing that it wasn't, only to come back a month later and say "oh I got more information from PvE friends that it was in fact overpowered" even though the evidence was in front of her the entire time. Regardless, for PvP azure caused a strain on the server because of the way it had to be applied, so much so it even caused issues in BGs. I play a ton of BGs and they rarely ever have performance problems unless there is a specific issue causing them, like a specific map issue, addon issue, or interaction issue. Azureblight was changed multiple times because of the issues it caused with the server. Sure, people complained about it being OP, but it was, and I was part of a group that would run it, as a group, against other people, and it was just as overloaded. How you are saying it wasn't broken is beyond me, but the fact that you were trying to use 3 other sets you had no idea about tells me a lot about your position and your level of engagement with facts when it comes to sets in ESO.

Bring back Azureblight

NovelliESO

hollow_winds wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

At the same time though...majority of ballgroups are the ones always asking for nerfs to sets, skills, etc...that hinders their group instead of adapting like solo players do. You can't have it both ways. You want to continue steamrolling solos/pugs but then whine about things that solos/pugs use to wipe/hinder your group, just silly

I dont run in a group anymore, everyone quit.

Show me a BG crown on here asking for nerfs to sets.

I didn't say a BG crown.

Go back and look at the several threads about Azureblight. That wasn't solo/pugs asking for a nerf, it was nerfed because BG's didn't like what it was doing, so..it caught a nerf, lol. Same with Sloads, Plaguebreak, Harmony Cro...all nerfed because they were hindering BG's from their play style, so they whined and got what they asked for. There's two threads up right now even where a BG player is openly asking for Negates to catch a nerf along with the upcoming shield update.

You can say ballgroups aren't the problem but they sure do end up getting their way quite a bit.

I mean, this is just objectively wrong. Ballgroups did not complain about sloads. This was a single target DoT set, why would a ballgroup ever complain about that? Ballgroups were also the people who utilized harmony more than anyone and they weren't the ones to try and get it nerfed. Plaguebreak explosion does more damage now than it did before, it just doesn't proc off of NPCs, and with a 20s per person cooldown if you are fighting a ballgroup you can just apply it to other people in the ballgroup to do the exact same thing it otherwise would have.

As far as nerfing goes, I and many other ballgroups usually call for nerfs to what ballgroups are already doing, excess shielding, healing, etc. Ballgroups don't target things that single people or smaller groups are doing to them. But if someone comes on the forums, and argues in bad faith or is just completely wrong, like this comment I am replying to is, I will always call it out.

Let's use Azureblight then as an example. If you look at the threads and comments here that were posted, almost all of them literally called out BG's for asking for its nerf. It wasn't bugged, it wasn't broken, it was killing ballgroups and caught a nerf for doing so. It was such a poor decision that even the PvE players were calling for it to be reversed

Even if you want to use azureblight, the PvE people that were calling for it to be reverted were players who were not aware of how strong it was, or were and wanted to keep it that way. Do you think people relying on something doing a ton of damage and asking to have it back is reason to say it shouldn't be changed? This is a complete moot point. If I had a set in PvE that gave me 20,000 extra weapon and spell damage and it got nerfed and people went to the forums because they were upset it is not longer giving massive stats, does this mean it was a bad decision to nerf it? No, find a better way to make an argument, completely fallacious.

I saw those arguments as they were happening by the way, there was some person who kept coming back to one of those threads, and she was a PvE streamer, and she was being told how absurdly strong it was for PvE, she even got linked logs of all the best PvE groups running it, kept swearing that it wasn't, only to come back a month later and say "oh I got more information from PvE friends that it was in fact overpowered" even though the evidence was in front of her the entire time. Regardless, for PvP azure caused a strain on the server because of the way it had to be applied, so much so it even caused issues in BGs. I play a ton of BGs and they rarely ever have performance problems unless there is a specific issue causing them, like a specific map issue, addon issue, or interaction issue. Azureblight was changed multiple times because of the issues it caused with the server. Sure, people complained about it being OP, but it was, and I was part of a group that would run it, as a group, against other people, and it was just as overloaded. How you are saying it wasn't broken is beyond me, but the fact that you were trying to use 3 other sets you had no idea about tells me a lot about your position and your level of engagement with facts when it comes to sets in ESO.

And the people that complained about it being OP was who...? You know the answer but you're a known BG player so I understand your stance on trying to defend your play style from these types of posts and comments, something that may slow your group just a fraction deserves the nerf and anyone who doesn't run in a sweaty, comped group just needs to learn skill and build their own sweaty, comp group.

Here's the thing that most BG players fail to understand and to be honest, I'm not sure why. Solo players, PUGS and the like aren't even asking for the removal of BG's or it's play style. I've even said before that these comped groups SHOULD wipe uncomped solos and pugs, that's just reality. The issue with these groups and currently is that with the current meta comps you all run, it does in fact make you incredibly Godlike and unkillable in most instances. A group of 12 being able to withstand multiple siege weapons 40+ solos throwing everything at them is just downright ridiculous. I'm sure you'll disagree but as others have stated here, that's not healthy for the already dwindling Cyro population. Again, read around these forums, more and more players are either logging out or they just stop playing altogether and you can't really blame them and the solution to "Well they just need to build their own group" is just ignorant. Not everyone wants to build a strict comp build and run in a group. Ballgroups should exist sure, but as it stands, there's hardly any viable counter to them and if there is one other than "building your own group" then please enlighten us.

What's funny to me is I have a strong feeling that these modern day ballgroups wouldn't do too well compared to how ballgroups used to be, no pull sets, no insane shields and some of these group buff sets. They would farm sure, but they were also easier to counter and it took more skill than what we currently see within them

Yeah don't know who you are talking to with the second paragraph, there were ballgroup players asking for it to be nerfed as well as players in smaller groups who equally got ruined by it since even ballgroups would run it and stack dots on people. You are on a 2 star forum account telling me to "read around these forums" as if you have some wholly true understanding when there are threads of people who are apparently in ballgroups asking for them not to be nerfed. There is one in this very thread, and there are multiple in other threads. You have zero knowledge I don't have, trust me.

Stop throwing out complete non-sequiturs while quoting and trying to have a conversation with me because none of these points apply at all. If you want to have a conversation with someone else or your own separate point that's perfectly fine, but you started this thread by lying about the sets ballgroups tried to get nerfed and then came back to a single one in the end after attempting to use 4 different things, the person who seems as if they don't understand is you.

Do I think groups of 12 should be able to run around and eat damage from 40 solo players? YES if the group is good, and the solo players are uncoordinated. 40 solo players just tacking on random damage should not kill someone unless it is happening at the same time and to the same person, which is the issue with not being coordinated. If 40 people are hitting the same person at the same time, that person will die, even through shields. If you don't want to build your own group and perform well that's perfectly fine, but don't complain about those that do when your argument just includes zero facts and just your own opinion about what you think is and isn't balanced/ Ballgroups have weaknesses, and ballgroups for the most part only fight other ballgroups, or groups larger than theirs. The absolute biggest issue in the current meta, is being addressed in a very positive way, but guess what, even at 60% shield cap to 12 man groups, you still find people on the forums complaining because groups of 3 aren't affected. People will literally complain about anything as long as it beats them, that is reality.

hoangdz

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

At the same time though...majority of ballgroups are the ones always asking for nerfs to sets, skills, etc...that hinders their group instead of adapting like solo players do. You can't have it both ways. You want to continue steamrolling solos/pugs but then whine about things that solos/pugs use to wipe/hinder your group, just silly

I dont run in a group anymore, everyone quit.

Show me a BG crown on here asking for nerfs to sets.

I didn't say a BG crown.

Go back and look at the several threads about Azureblight. That wasn't solo/pugs asking for a nerf, it was nerfed because BG's didn't like what it was doing, so..it caught a nerf, lol. Same with Sloads, Plaguebreak, Harmony Cro...all nerfed because they were hindering BG's from their play style, so they whined and got what they asked for. There's two threads up right now even where a BG player is openly asking for Negates to catch a nerf along with the upcoming shield update.

You can say ballgroups aren't the problem but they sure do end up getting their way quite a bit.

I mean, this is just objectively wrong. Ballgroups did not complain about sloads. This was a single target DoT set, why would a ballgroup ever complain about that? Ballgroups were also the people who utilized harmony more than anyone and they weren't the ones to try and get it nerfed. Plaguebreak explosion does more damage now than it did before, it just doesn't proc off of NPCs, and with a 20s per person cooldown if you are fighting a ballgroup you can just apply it to other people in the ballgroup to do the exact same thing it otherwise would have.

As far as nerfing goes, I and many other ballgroups usually call for nerfs to what ballgroups are already doing, excess shielding, healing, etc. Ballgroups don't target things that single people or smaller groups are doing to them. But if someone comes on the forums, and argues in bad faith or is just completely wrong, like this comment I am replying to is, I will always call it out.

Let's use Azureblight then as an example. If you look at the threads and comments here that were posted, almost all of them literally called out BG's for asking for its nerf. It wasn't bugged, it wasn't broken, it was killing ballgroups and caught a nerf for doing so. It was such a poor decision that even the PvE players were calling for it to be reversed

Even if you want to use azureblight, the PvE people that were calling for it to be reverted were players who were not aware of how strong it was, or were and wanted to keep it that way. Do you think people relying on something doing a ton of damage and asking to have it back is reason to say it shouldn't be changed? This is a complete moot point. If I had a set in PvE that gave me 20,000 extra weapon and spell damage and it got nerfed and people went to the forums because they were upset it is not longer giving massive stats, does this mean it was a bad decision to nerf it? No, find a better way to make an argument, completely fallacious.

I saw those arguments as they were happening by the way, there was some person who kept coming back to one of those threads, and she was a PvE streamer, and she was being told how absurdly strong it was for PvE, she even got linked logs of all the best PvE groups running it, kept swearing that it wasn't, only to come back a month later and say "oh I got more information from PvE friends that it was in fact overpowered" even though the evidence was in front of her the entire time. Regardless, for PvP azure caused a strain on the server because of the way it had to be applied, so much so it even caused issues in BGs. I play a ton of BGs and they rarely ever have performance problems unless there is a specific issue causing them, like a specific map issue, addon issue, or interaction issue. Azureblight was changed multiple times because of the issues it caused with the server. Sure, people complained about it being OP, but it was, and I was part of a group that would run it, as a group, against other people, and it was just as overloaded. How you are saying it wasn't broken is beyond me, but the fact that you were trying to use 3 other sets you had no idea about tells me a lot about your position and your level of engagement with facts when it comes to sets in ESO.

And the people that complained about it being OP was who...? You know the answer but you're a known BG player so I understand your stance on trying to defend your play style from these types of posts and comments, something that may slow your group just a fraction deserves the nerf and anyone who doesn't run in a sweaty, comped group just needs to learn skill and build their own sweaty, comp group.

Here's the thing that most BG players fail to understand and to be honest, I'm not sure why. Solo players, PUGS and the like aren't even asking for the removal of BG's or it's play style. I've even said before that these comped groups SHOULD wipe uncomped solos and pugs, that's just reality. The issue with these groups and currently is that with the current meta comps you all run, it does in fact make you incredibly Godlike and unkillable in most instances. A group of 12 being able to withstand multiple siege weapons 40+ solos throwing everything at them is just downright ridiculous. I'm sure you'll disagree but as others have stated here, that's not healthy for the already dwindling Cyro population. Again, read around these forums, more and more players are either logging out or they just stop playing altogether and you can't really blame them and the solution to "Well they just need to build their own group" is just ignorant. Not everyone wants to build a strict comp build and run in a group. Ballgroups should exist sure, but as it stands, there's hardly any viable counter to them and if there is one other than "building your own group" then please enlighten us.

What's funny to me is I have a strong feeling that these modern day ballgroups wouldn't do too well compared to how ballgroups used to be, no pull sets, no insane shields and some of these group buff sets. They would farm sure, but they were also easier to counter and it took more skill than what we currently see within them

Yeah don't know who you are talking to with the second paragraph, there were ballgroup players asking for it to be nerfed as well as players in smaller groups who equally got ruined by it since even ballgroups would run it and stack dots on people. You are on a 2 star forum account telling me to "read around these forums" as if you have some wholly true understanding when there are threads of people who are apparently in ballgroups asking for them not to be nerfed. There is one in this very thread, and there are multiple in other threads. You have zero knowledge I don't have, trust me.

Stop throwing out complete non-sequiturs while quoting and trying to have a conversation with me because none of these points apply at all. If you want to have a conversation with someone else or your own separate point that's perfectly fine, but you started this thread by lying about the sets ballgroups tried to get nerfed and then came back to a single one in the end after attempting to use 4 different things, the person who seems as if they don't understand is you.

Do I think groups of 12 should be able to run around and eat damage from 40 solo players? YES if the group is good, and the solo players are uncoordinated. 40 solo players just tacking on random damage should not kill someone unless it is happening at the same time and to the same person, which is the issue with not being coordinated. If 40 people are hitting the same person at the same time, that person will die, even through shields. If you don't want to build your own group and perform well that's perfectly fine, but don't complain about those that do when your argument just includes zero facts and just your own opinion about what you think is and isn't balanced/ Ballgroups have weaknesses, and ballgroups for the most part only fight other ballgroups, or groups larger than theirs. The absolute biggest issue in the current meta, is being addressed in a very positive way, but guess what, even at 60% shield cap to 12 man groups, you still find people on the forums complaining because groups of 3 aren't affected. People will literally complain about anything as long as it beats them, that is reality.

That last sentence of yours is what the Streak nerf thread is about. How ironic huh 😂

hollow_winds

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

At the same time though...majority of ballgroups are the ones always asking for nerfs to sets, skills, etc...that hinders their group instead of adapting like solo players do. You can't have it both ways. You want to continue steamrolling solos/pugs but then whine about things that solos/pugs use to wipe/hinder your group, just silly

I dont run in a group anymore, everyone quit.

Show me a BG crown on here asking for nerfs to sets.

I didn't say a BG crown.

Go back and look at the several threads about Azureblight. That wasn't solo/pugs asking for a nerf, it was nerfed because BG's didn't like what it was doing, so..it caught a nerf, lol. Same with Sloads, Plaguebreak, Harmony Cro...all nerfed because they were hindering BG's from their play style, so they whined and got what they asked for. There's two threads up right now even where a BG player is openly asking for Negates to catch a nerf along with the upcoming shield update.

You can say ballgroups aren't the problem but they sure do end up getting their way quite a bit.

I mean, this is just objectively wrong. Ballgroups did not complain about sloads. This was a single target DoT set, why would a ballgroup ever complain about that? Ballgroups were also the people who utilized harmony more than anyone and they weren't the ones to try and get it nerfed. Plaguebreak explosion does more damage now than it did before, it just doesn't proc off of NPCs, and with a 20s per person cooldown if you are fighting a ballgroup you can just apply it to other people in the ballgroup to do the exact same thing it otherwise would have.

As far as nerfing goes, I and many other ballgroups usually call for nerfs to what ballgroups are already doing, excess shielding, healing, etc. Ballgroups don't target things that single people or smaller groups are doing to them. But if someone comes on the forums, and argues in bad faith or is just completely wrong, like this comment I am replying to is, I will always call it out.

Let's use Azureblight then as an example. If you look at the threads and comments here that were posted, almost all of them literally called out BG's for asking for its nerf. It wasn't bugged, it wasn't broken, it was killing ballgroups and caught a nerf for doing so. It was such a poor decision that even the PvE players were calling for it to be reversed

Even if you want to use azureblight, the PvE people that were calling for it to be reverted were players who were not aware of how strong it was, or were and wanted to keep it that way. Do you think people relying on something doing a ton of damage and asking to have it back is reason to say it shouldn't be changed? This is a complete moot point. If I had a set in PvE that gave me 20,000 extra weapon and spell damage and it got nerfed and people went to the forums because they were upset it is not longer giving massive stats, does this mean it was a bad decision to nerf it? No, find a better way to make an argument, completely fallacious.

I saw those arguments as they were happening by the way, there was some person who kept coming back to one of those threads, and she was a PvE streamer, and she was being told how absurdly strong it was for PvE, she even got linked logs of all the best PvE groups running it, kept swearing that it wasn't, only to come back a month later and say "oh I got more information from PvE friends that it was in fact overpowered" even though the evidence was in front of her the entire time. Regardless, for PvP azure caused a strain on the server because of the way it had to be applied, so much so it even caused issues in BGs. I play a ton of BGs and they rarely ever have performance problems unless there is a specific issue causing them, like a specific map issue, addon issue, or interaction issue. Azureblight was changed multiple times because of the issues it caused with the server. Sure, people complained about it being OP, but it was, and I was part of a group that would run it, as a group, against other people, and it was just as overloaded. How you are saying it wasn't broken is beyond me, but the fact that you were trying to use 3 other sets you had no idea about tells me a lot about your position and your level of engagement with facts when it comes to sets in ESO.

And the people that complained about it being OP was who...? You know the answer but you're a known BG player so I understand your stance on trying to defend your play style from these types of posts and comments, something that may slow your group just a fraction deserves the nerf and anyone who doesn't run in a sweaty, comped group just needs to learn skill and build their own sweaty, comp group.

Here's the thing that most BG players fail to understand and to be honest, I'm not sure why. Solo players, PUGS and the like aren't even asking for the removal of BG's or it's play style. I've even said before that these comped groups SHOULD wipe uncomped solos and pugs, that's just reality. The issue with these groups and currently is that with the current meta comps you all run, it does in fact make you incredibly Godlike and unkillable in most instances. A group of 12 being able to withstand multiple siege weapons 40+ solos throwing everything at them is just downright ridiculous. I'm sure you'll disagree but as others have stated here, that's not healthy for the already dwindling Cyro population. Again, read around these forums, more and more players are either logging out or they just stop playing altogether and you can't really blame them and the solution to "Well they just need to build their own group" is just ignorant. Not everyone wants to build a strict comp build and run in a group. Ballgroups should exist sure, but as it stands, there's hardly any viable counter to them and if there is one other than "building your own group" then please enlighten us.

What's funny to me is I have a strong feeling that these modern day ballgroups wouldn't do too well compared to how ballgroups used to be, no pull sets, no insane shields and some of these group buff sets. They would farm sure, but they were also easier to counter and it took more skill than what we currently see within them

Yeah don't know who you are talking to with the second paragraph, there were ballgroup players asking for it to be nerfed as well as players in smaller groups who equally got ruined by it since even ballgroups would run it and stack dots on people. You are on a 2 star forum account telling me to "read around these forums" as if you have some wholly true understanding when there are threads of people who are apparently in ballgroups asking for them not to be nerfed. There is one in this very thread, and there are multiple in other threads. You have zero knowledge I don't have, trust me.

Stop throwing out complete non-sequiturs while quoting and trying to have a conversation with me because none of these points apply at all. If you want to have a conversation with someone else or your own separate point that's perfectly fine, but you started this thread by lying about the sets ballgroups tried to get nerfed and then came back to a single one in the end after attempting to use 4 different things, the person who seems as if they don't understand is you.

Do I think groups of 12 should be able to run around and eat damage from 40 solo players? YES if the group is good, and the solo players are uncoordinated. 40 solo players just tacking on random damage should not kill someone unless it is happening at the same time and to the same person, which is the issue with not being coordinated. If 40 people are hitting the same person at the same time, that person will die, even through shields. If you don't want to build your own group and perform well that's perfectly fine, but don't complain about those that do when your argument just includes zero facts and just your own opinion about what you think is and isn't balanced/ Ballgroups have weaknesses, and ballgroups for the most part only fight other ballgroups, or groups larger than theirs. The absolute biggest issue in the current meta, is being addressed in a very positive way, but guess what, even at 60% shield cap to 12 man groups, you still find people on the forums complaining because groups of 3 aren't affected. People will literally complain about anything as long as it beats them, that is reality.

It's honestly rather impressive how you respond to my points while still ignoring what I said, lol, I literally said in my point these ball groups should wipe pugs and solos, literally no one here is arguing that. I didn't even say they shouldn't be able to do that, all I said is that it's ridiculous because it is. Again, you're a BG player so I get you're going to defend your position no matter the argument, it only makes sense. However, almost every comment you reply with in several of these threads has been to just dismiss any and all arguments with "Well actually no...you're wrong...just build a comp group." and as I said (another part you skipped over) is that not every single PvP player wants to build a comp build. You want to keep killing off the Cyro population with your BG, by all means, again, I'm not even advocating for the removing of BG's, but when Cyro becomes nothing but Ballgroups fighting Ballgroups (which is where it's headed) then I hope it's worth it to you guys, seems kinda detrimental to me but to each their own

hollow_winds

hoangdz wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

hollow_winds wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I think many of us can agree that ball groups are currently too strong. For a long time, people have suggested various ways to curb their power, such as health caps, shield caps, or diminishing returns on stacked healing. While I think all of these changes could help address the issue and should be implemented, it seems that whenever they’re suggested, the ball group defense force shows up to argue that these changes would hurt pugs more than ball groups or that it would impact non ball group players too much.

With that in mind, I’d like to propose something that would specifically target one of the biggest advantages ball groups currently have: snare immunity.

Aside from the broader changes being suggested, I think ZOS should take a serious look at Snow Treaders and whatever banner script/interaction is currently providing effectively 100% snare immunity. Perhaps giving each a cooldown on the effect/immunity.

The reasoning is pretty simple: nerfing these sources of snare immunity would disproportionately affect organized ball groups far more than solo players, small-scale groups, or even loosely organized pug zergs.

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions.

Before that, it was rapids/purge/shuffle, RaT, etc.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think there’s some single handed solution to decreasing the power of a comped group.

The actual solution to it (this is large scale siege warfare we’re talking about), is to put together a better group. Cyro is meant to be won by the best groups.

Sorry, but the “solo/small scale” argument is old and boring, no one cares about the 1vX clip of the week narrated by Kristopher anymore. No one that’s been around cares to chase 4 people from Nik porch to the cliff when they aren’t even threatening the capture cause they have zero siege in their inventory. The only people that do, are not impacted by any of this, cause they likely don’t even know what snare immunity is.

People need to stop whining about ballgroups. They aren’t the problem.

At the same time though...majority of ballgroups are the ones always asking for nerfs to sets, skills, etc...that hinders their group instead of adapting like solo players do. You can't have it both ways. You want to continue steamrolling solos/pugs but then whine about things that solos/pugs use to wipe/hinder your group, just silly

I dont run in a group anymore, everyone quit.

Show me a BG crown on here asking for nerfs to sets.

I didn't say a BG crown.

Go back and look at the several threads about Azureblight. That wasn't solo/pugs asking for a nerf, it was nerfed because BG's didn't like what it was doing, so..it caught a nerf, lol. Same with Sloads, Plaguebreak, Harmony Cro...all nerfed because they were hindering BG's from their play style, so they whined and got what they asked for. There's two threads up right now even where a BG player is openly asking for Negates to catch a nerf along with the upcoming shield update.

You can say ballgroups aren't the problem but they sure do end up getting their way quite a bit.

I mean, this is just objectively wrong. Ballgroups did not complain about sloads. This was a single target DoT set, why would a ballgroup ever complain about that? Ballgroups were also the people who utilized harmony more than anyone and they weren't the ones to try and get it nerfed. Plaguebreak explosion does more damage now than it did before, it just doesn't proc off of NPCs, and with a 20s per person cooldown if you are fighting a ballgroup you can just apply it to other people in the ballgroup to do the exact same thing it otherwise would have.

As far as nerfing goes, I and many other ballgroups usually call for nerfs to what ballgroups are already doing, excess shielding, healing, etc. Ballgroups don't target things that single people or smaller groups are doing to them. But if someone comes on the forums, and argues in bad faith or is just completely wrong, like this comment I am replying to is, I will always call it out.

Let's use Azureblight then as an example. If you look at the threads and comments here that were posted, almost all of them literally called out BG's for asking for its nerf. It wasn't bugged, it wasn't broken, it was killing ballgroups and caught a nerf for doing so. It was such a poor decision that even the PvE players were calling for it to be reversed

Even if you want to use azureblight, the PvE people that were calling for it to be reverted were players who were not aware of how strong it was, or were and wanted to keep it that way. Do you think people relying on something doing a ton of damage and asking to have it back is reason to say it shouldn't be changed? This is a complete moot point. If I had a set in PvE that gave me 20,000 extra weapon and spell damage and it got nerfed and people went to the forums because they were upset it is not longer giving massive stats, does this mean it was a bad decision to nerf it? No, find a better way to make an argument, completely fallacious.

I saw those arguments as they were happening by the way, there was some person who kept coming back to one of those threads, and she was a PvE streamer, and she was being told how absurdly strong it was for PvE, she even got linked logs of all the best PvE groups running it, kept swearing that it wasn't, only to come back a month later and say "oh I got more information from PvE friends that it was in fact overpowered" even though the evidence was in front of her the entire time. Regardless, for PvP azure caused a strain on the server because of the way it had to be applied, so much so it even caused issues in BGs. I play a ton of BGs and they rarely ever have performance problems unless there is a specific issue causing them, like a specific map issue, addon issue, or interaction issue. Azureblight was changed multiple times because of the issues it caused with the server. Sure, people complained about it being OP, but it was, and I was part of a group that would run it, as a group, against other people, and it was just as overloaded. How you are saying it wasn't broken is beyond me, but the fact that you were trying to use 3 other sets you had no idea about tells me a lot about your position and your level of engagement with facts when it comes to sets in ESO.

And the people that complained about it being OP was who...? You know the answer but you're a known BG player so I understand your stance on trying to defend your play style from these types of posts and comments, something that may slow your group just a fraction deserves the nerf and anyone who doesn't run in a sweaty, comped group just needs to learn skill and build their own sweaty, comp group.

Here's the thing that most BG players fail to understand and to be honest, I'm not sure why. Solo players, PUGS and the like aren't even asking for the removal of BG's or it's play style. I've even said before that these comped groups SHOULD wipe uncomped solos and pugs, that's just reality. The issue with these groups and currently is that with the current meta comps you all run, it does in fact make you incredibly Godlike and unkillable in most instances. A group of 12 being able to withstand multiple siege weapons 40+ solos throwing everything at them is just downright ridiculous. I'm sure you'll disagree but as others have stated here, that's not healthy for the already dwindling Cyro population. Again, read around these forums, more and more players are either logging out or they just stop playing altogether and you can't really blame them and the solution to "Well they just need to build their own group" is just ignorant. Not everyone wants to build a strict comp build and run in a group. Ballgroups should exist sure, but as it stands, there's hardly any viable counter to them and if there is one other than "building your own group" then please enlighten us.

What's funny to me is I have a strong feeling that these modern day ballgroups wouldn't do too well compared to how ballgroups used to be, no pull sets, no insane shields and some of these group buff sets. They would farm sure, but they were also easier to counter and it took more skill than what we currently see within them

Yeah don't know who you are talking to with the second paragraph, there were ballgroup players asking for it to be nerfed as well as players in smaller groups who equally got ruined by it since even ballgroups would run it and stack dots on people. You are on a 2 star forum account telling me to "read around these forums" as if you have some wholly true understanding when there are threads of people who are apparently in ballgroups asking for them not to be nerfed. There is one in this very thread, and there are multiple in other threads. You have zero knowledge I don't have, trust me.

Stop throwing out complete non-sequiturs while quoting and trying to have a conversation with me because none of these points apply at all. If you want to have a conversation with someone else or your own separate point that's perfectly fine, but you started this thread by lying about the sets ballgroups tried to get nerfed and then came back to a single one in the end after attempting to use 4 different things, the person who seems as if they don't understand is you.

Do I think groups of 12 should be able to run around and eat damage from 40 solo players? YES if the group is good, and the solo players are uncoordinated. 40 solo players just tacking on random damage should not kill someone unless it is happening at the same time and to the same person, which is the issue with not being coordinated. If 40 people are hitting the same person at the same time, that person will die, even through shields. If you don't want to build your own group and perform well that's perfectly fine, but don't complain about those that do when your argument just includes zero facts and just your own opinion about what you think is and isn't balanced/ Ballgroups have weaknesses, and ballgroups for the most part only fight other ballgroups, or groups larger than theirs. The absolute biggest issue in the current meta, is being addressed in a very positive way, but guess what, even at 60% shield cap to 12 man groups, you still find people on the forums complaining because groups of 3 aren't affected. People will literally complain about anything as long as it beats them, that is reality.

That last sentence of yours is what the Streak nerf thread is about. How ironic huh 😂

And the negate thread...and the countless Azureblight threads...and the shield nerf is wrong thread and any thread where Rush is asked to nerfed...lol