Please Consider Not Adding Incentives To Rush Story Content

xencthlu · July 29

I don't mind golden pursuits. I don't mind time limited rewards. I like quest content. I'm someone who this situation should appeal to.

I... want to do the quest content at my own pace. There's years' worth of stories in ESO. I'm not all caught up yet; I'm still in SElsweyr, chipping away at it as I have the time and energy to enjoy it. I really want to play everything in order, since there's constant callbacks to earlier characters and stories, and I'd like to understand everything when it happens. Even if I were playing quest content every day, I'd be looking at months before I caught up with content.

Today's GP looks to be based entirely on doing the new Sheogorath storyline right now, immediately when it launches? It's also fairly brief by the standards of golden pursuits; it expires in 14 days. Maybe it's a perfectly self contained storyline where doing previous content wouldn't affect anything at all. I bet it's not, I have to assume it matters if you've done the mage's guild storyline where you meet Sheogorath and work against him. So if someone wanted to catch up to this storyline, they might have to be putting in double the time questing? And I'd be suspicious of claims that you can do this story without getting spoilers or having a diminished experience doing older content. The same was claimed about the Writhing Wall event, but as everyone noticed, it had spoilers for the Solstice story.

I like GPs. I like seeing the server come together and work on something as a group in our shared world. I like getting little extra rewards, I like trying out new things I might not have considered before because the game is very big and there's so much to do. I don't mind that they're time sensitive, especially now that the Gold Coast Bazaar exists as a catch up mechanism for fairness' sack. I'm not someone who's burning out on lots of events and activities. I do what I feel like when I feel like it, and I often feel like GPs are long enough I can wait until I feel like doing something.

But GPs that try to get me to rush through story content are a miss for me. I'm opting out of this one, and I hope this won't become a trend in the future, because it would suck the joy out of doing story content if I *really* wanted the reward.

xencthlu · July 29

Sorry, TL;DR I don't think story questlines are the right content to target with Golden Pursuits.

flizomica · July 29

Agreed, why can't these collectibles just be quest rewards? They're interesting but I don't want to rush through story content just so I don't miss out. Honestly I feel a bit demotivated to play at all, so to log in to check out the new content, and then realize there's somehow more FOMO tied to what is meant to be permanent content, made me simply log back out again.

emilyhyoyeon · July 29

Yeah, another frustrating thing about this is it makes it way harder to avoid immersion-breaking masses of other players around doing the quest at the same time.

DenverRalphy · July 29

:shrug: Fourteen days is plenty of time to complete it and set your own casual pace.

I took one look at the mob when it landed this morning (I had completely forgotten it started today), and was glad I have to go to work. Because I'd much rather start it tonight or tomorrow after the initial rush has passed. I'm not the least worried over any possible time crunch.

YffresTrill · July 29

There is no possible incentive this (or any other) game can offer me to rush story content. I have no idea what the rewards are, and it makes no difference to me. They could give 2000 transmutes (I am always short on those) and I wouldn't do it.

Like OP, I do all story content in order (on my main) and at a snail's pace. I am however nearly caught up, but am still giving it a few months before I do the new Thieves Guild quests because I want as few other players around when I am questing as possible. These Sheogorath quests will obviously need to wait even longer.

They can offer Golden Pursuits for new questlines if they want of course, but the question is: why? It must be for metrics ("look how many players are immediately engaging with the new content") because otherwise any rewards could simply be given for quest completion at any point. The quests (thankfully) aren't going away.

I understand some people (though I really cannot relate at all) might prefer to quest in a massive crowd, but that crowd will be there for the new shiny regardless of additional incentives.

(Edit for typo.)

msetten · July 29

This made me actually wonder whether Sheogaroth's holiday is a temporary event or a permanent addition to the game. Does any one know?

AlienSlof · July 29

As far as I'm aware, it's permanent. I am doing the questline now on my questing cat as she was between quests, but I'm certainly not rushing through it. I like to listen to all the dialogue and poke my nose into every corner!

AzuraFan · July 29

It's too bad, especially since this is it for story content this year. So why provide an incentive to rush through? Doesn't make sense.

AcadianPaladin · July 29

Just completed the first bit of this quest up to where I'm supposed to go to Eastmarch. I must strongly agree with OP. The Golden Pursuit clearly adds some rush to get going on the quest - along with 50,000 of my closest friends. So far, all I can see is the quest arrows inside a sea of other players. It makes my head hurt so badly I had to take a break from it.

Private instances (solo or with your group if you are part of one) would seem the clear fix here. All the effort that went into creating the questline has so far been for naught as I can't see any of it.

AzuraFan · July 29

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Private instances (solo or with your group if you are part of one) would seem the clear fix here. All the effort that went into creating the questline has so far been for naught as I can't see any of it.

That's why a lot of us wait at least a week before starting new story content. I haven't even finished the thieves guild quest line yet. Close, but not yet.

If they'd made the GP time a month or more, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But dropping story content with a 14-day golden pursuit...I don't get it.

tomofhyrule · July 29

I always preferred doing the stories a few months later to let the crowds thin out. There is nothing more immersion breaking than hearing “you’re the only one who can save the world!” when I can’t even see the questgiver beneath a full instance of other players.

When we got these to test last PTS, I already complained that just the Seasonal challenge to get them done was driving them too much to be enjoyed by players. I don’t think there is a single story-focused player who thinks grinding it out as fast as physically possible with 50+ of their closest friends will make for a good experience.

It also raises the question: how good is the story really if it can’t inspire us to go through it on its own merits, and instead they need to dangle a carrot for us to grind it out quickly. And if that’s the point, then why wasn’t this carrot used for any Vengeance tests beyond the first?

At least I hate Sheogorath with a passion and think that his existence is an admission of not being able to write a compelling story, so I can freely spam [E] through the whole thing since nothing matters anyway.

EDIT: Another thought - I know that nobody really believed the “we want to reduce FOMO” statement in the Seasons reveal from January, but this is just…? Really? Did someone see that only permanent additions were added thus far in Season One and say “omg, quick, make one of them have FOMO!”

tsaescishoeshiner · July 29

Golden Pursuits with unique cosmetic rewards around multi-part or returning character story quests should be a no-no. If it's just a bit of resources and materials, I think it's okay. Although they could have had a Sheo-themed GP that was more general, like fighting types of enemies, doing any quest, etc.

Danikat · July 29

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Just completed the first bit of this quest up to where I'm supposed to go to Eastmarch. I must strongly agree with OP. The Golden Pursuit clearly adds some rush to get going on the quest - along with 50,000 of my closest friends. So far, all I can see is the quest arrows inside a sea of other players. It makes my head hurt so badly I had to take a break from it.

Private instances (solo or with your group if you are part of one) would seem the clear fix here. All the effort that went into creating the questline has so far been for naught as I can't see any of it.

That's one reason I prefer to wait too. I remember when the Old Life quests were added to the New Life festival and it was only seeing a topic on here about which dead NPCs appeared as ghosts that made me realise anything happened. It was about a week after that I was able to do one early on a Monday morning and finally saw the ghost, before then they'd been literally getting lost in the crowd around the shrines. Still that was better than the early days of the game when you could load into a building or cave or whatever and get a notification your quest was complete because someone else had killed the boss you didn't even know you were going to fight because you'd only gotten up to the step where you go looking for them.

Honestly a lot of the design of this game gives me the impression at least some people at ZOS think stories are an annoying inconvenience to get out of the way as quickly as possible so you can get on with farming loot.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

EDIT: Another thought - I know that nobody really believed the “we want to reduce FOMO” statement in the Seasons reveal from January, but this is just…? Really? Did someone see that only permanent additions were added thus far in Season One and say “omg, quick, make one of them have FOMO!”

I suspect "we want to reduce FOMO" always meant "we're aware the seasonal format introduces a lot of new FOMO so we're trying to balance it out slightly by removing some of the existing FOMO systems".

It still works out as more than we had before, but less than it would have been if they'd added all this junk and kept daily login rewards and endeavours.

katanagirl1 · July 30

Normally I would agree with you guys on new content, but I don’t think I will mind if my immersion is broken for this quest line. I’ll just get it done early then.

Cruxanero · July 30

I will do the same thing I did when they introduced skill style rewards for doing the scribing story: Play it on one of my crafting characters, skip through all the dialogue, only follow the quest arrows, try to look at the floor while moving, squint my eyes and try to catch as little spoilers as possible, so I may still enjoy the storyline once I'll actually play it for the first time, sometime in a couple months.

Granted, this is also the opposite of fun. But if they need it so badly to improve some metrics...
I just hope it doesn't happen too often, because it diminishes the fun in what is actually the most important part of the game for me.

Eldovar · July 30

I finished it in one sitting. It’s super short and 90 percent or the quest is dialog (which hides other players) and 5 percent is travelling to a way shrine.

The last quest is the only one with some action in it and is instanced as a ‘zone story’ quest.

By the time I completed the quest chain, you automatically complete the pursuit.

That’s it for story content until somewhere in 2027. Pretty wild this and thieves is it. When all the quests are in old base game zones and delves it’s super boring and feels like listening to a podcast instead of playing and exploring a game.

Aliniel · July 30

This sets up a very bad precedence. Stories should be left out of the limited time events. From what I've heard, it's very short so it shouldn't be a problem, but if you did this for the Thieves Guild storyline or something similar, I'd be very angry.

For one, some players are still catching up. Second, 100 people doing the same quest at the same time is the worst possible experience you can get in an online game. Since you can't make proper world instances, at least don't force us all to do the quests at once.

MissNoir · July 30

I always wait a week or two before doing new content because I don’t want thousands of other players around me.

Luckily for me, though, I’ve already gotten what I wanted from the GP, the 10k gold. The rest from it doesn’t interest me så I can wait.

But I totally agree that doing story related questing should not be rushed by the devs. This just shows they no longer have any idea, nor care about what kind of game they have.

aedra · July 30

xencthlu wrote: »

... Maybe it's a perfectly self contained storyline where doing previous content wouldn't affect anything at all. I bet it's not, I have to assume it matters if you've done the mage's guild storyline where you meet Sheogorath and work against him. So if someone wanted to catch up to this storyline, they might have to be putting in double the time questing? And I'd be suspicious of claims that you can do this story without getting spoilers or having a diminished experience doing older content. The same was claimed about the Writhing Wall event, but as everyone noticed, it had spoilers for the Solstice story.

Just finished it on a character that is still on the Mages Guild questline, only did a couple of them on that character the new questline actually acknowledges that so no worries its entirely self-contained. He even mentions it has nothing to do with his holiday. Not sure if there's more unique dialogue if you did it on a character that has completed the Mages Guild, perhaps someone else can confirm.

SerafinaWaterstar · July 30

I think this is an awful decision. I don’t want to be forced to do new content within the first couple of weeks, when it’s utterly crowded and therefore not pleasant.

Who thought it would be a good idea to have a GP for a permanent quest line? Why are the rewards not just part of the quest rewards?

@ZOS_Kevin please feed this back to whomever appropriate. It is not a good thing.

Cruxanero · July 30

The target audience is also questionable. I love story content, and I'm also always looking forward to the fresh challenges and experiences that GPs bring and have finished every pursuit until now. So you should think this pursuit would be totally aimed at me, yet the opposite is true. You can only truly enjoy this pursuit if you care for exactly one of these things. Either you love stories and immersions but don't care for finishing pursuits - great, you can just ignore the pursuit and do the story once the crowds thin out. Or you love pursuits but couldn't care less for boring questing - also great, you can do it with the crowds and are even rewarded on top now. You love both of these things? Well, too bad for you, you now either have to suck it up and rush the story, diminishing your enjoyment of it, or skip the pursuit.

AzuraFan · July 30

This is the second GP I'll be ignoring (the first one was the Night Market). I really hope they never attach a GP to story content again. This was a misstep.

Vrienda · July 30

Yes, please. Genshin does this too and it ruins what would otherwise be really enjoyable stories if I wasn't forcing myself to play them for the event. It might look good for MAU's now but overtime you'll burn people out.

OsUfi · July 30

Currently booking it through on a level one character for the pursuit, ignoring everything, I have no idea what's going on, don't care. Will come back and enjoy this at a slow pace on my main at a later date.

Add my voice to the pile. I intensely dislike doing story content on release for this very reason. Please don't do this again ZoS. Pretty please. With a cheesy ribbon on top.

wolfie1.0. · July 30

DenverRalphy wrote: »

:shrug: Fourteen days is plenty of time to complete it and set your own casual pace.

I took one look at the mob when it landed this morning (I had completely forgotten it started today), and was glad I have to go to work. Because I'd much rather start it tonight or tomorrow after the initial rush has passed. I'm not the least worried over any possible time crunch.

When you factor in that we aren't getting any new story quests until next year pushing players to complete it in 14 days is pushing them.

wolfie1.0. · July 30

What i dont understand is why not just add in the GP rewards to doing the quest for the first time? If your going to tie it to story then do it that way.

Ezhh · July 30

Just adding my voice. Relying on added fomo to make things look popular on launch (or ever) is simply never going to sit well with me. This is content I'd have taken my time enjoying. Due to this I rushed it in one night and doubt I'll bother again... So overall less engagement from me than it would have had.

Danikat · July 30

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

What i dont understand is why not just add in the GP rewards to doing the quest for the first time? If your going to tie it to story then do it that way.

Because Golden Pursuits are their way of ensuring we hit their KPIs. It's not helpful for ZOS if they add new quests and most players go "cool, looks interesting, I'll check it out at some point" and then go back to what they were doing before, they need to be able to show their superiors metrics that report an increase in daily activity and engagement with the new stuff, and Golden Pursuits are one way to do that. Add new permanent quests but put a time limit on some of the rewards so more people will rush through them right away and the charts will show a bump in activity, either overall or in that specific area.

Sheridan · July 31

I fully support this request. I usually wait for 2-3 months after the release of a new story, in order for the player crowds to dissipate (and also the occasional bugs to be fixed). And I complete it at my own pace. I haven't started new Thieves Guild yet, and I wanted to postpone Sheogorath as well. But I don't want to lose that Customized Action.

Well, there's a little push as well in the form of Seasonal Challenges, but at least it's season long; I can live with that. Night Market was a time-limited event but at least it has virtually no story, so that is okay as well, I guess. But 14 days Golden Pursuits for a story content is a rough shove. So many things in ESO have a disturbing sense of urgency now...

BergisMacBride · July 31

They did away with daily endeavors\login rewards and replaced them with tomes so we wouldn’t feel compelled to play every day because of fomo, and now they do this 2 week GP for some of the only new content we are getting this year?!?!? This completely flies in the face of that logic.

I’m fine with doing the season long tome points for this and thieves guild, but to feel rushed to complete new content in 2 weeks for the GP is a massive step backwards from their stated goals on the direction of the game.

Like many others, I prefer to savor new content on my main and not feel rushed to complete it for the sake of checking some boxes with a quick expiration date. Seriously thinking about doing what someone else suggested and blasting through this on one of my alts, trying not to read the dialog so I can come back later on my main, when I can actually enjoy the quests and not have my immersion spoiled by rushing through it.

@ZOS_Kevin, you guys really missed the mark on this.