Balancing pure classes relative to the subclass system

Fantalior

Pure classes are currently quite strong in ESO. However, it is notable that two "skill points"—rather than just one—can be allocated within the Class Mastery tree. I wonder if the intention was to also award a point to characters who retain at least two of their original class skill trees—effectively a "2/3 class" setup. This would also be a good way to better balance Class Mastery against the subclass system. What do you think of this idea? Could it help make the subclass system more attractive? At the very least, the extra effort involved in owning and leveling up different classes ought to be rewarded.

thechef209

When subclassing came out, I saw 100k parse videos consisting of Heavy Attacks and absolutely nothing else. No pets, no skill casts, no gear set procs, etc. Pure classes, even with class mastery, can NEVER reach 100k with just heavy attacks.

If anything, pure classes should be buffed FURTHER to balance out subclassing.

Radiate77

Meanwhile in “Pure” Class land…

https://youtu.be/KVjaONAxw1Y?is=0wGIEurelzVceufW
https://youtu.be/xy0hK21yKV0?is=QxSMtl-hqQlJR5ox
https://youtu.be/1EOAhUOjPd0?is=R28pMbyQcALr3Mhm
https://youtu.be/KCBZhFS-SZQ?is=PvL6_O0Z7o6M94DL
https://youtu.be/a1qiAMlAO-E?is=z_mYolpwmE1yhZN1

Personofsecrets

Pure class bonuses are some of the most overtuned obnoxious bonuses that ESO has ever produced.

Radiate77

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Pure class bonuses are some of the most overtuned obnoxious bonuses that ESO has ever produced.

Hey it doesn’t matter that “pure” classes are clearing 200k now, you can make a mediocre build for lazy people better by Subclassing, so we need to nerf Subclassing, better yet, just get rid of it altogether because someone who doesn’t use it is just better.

These Class Masteries are just proving it. 😃

ketsparrowhawk

Been having a lot of fun in BG's with a good mix of pure and subclass builds. Shield stacking sorcs are annoying. Time is a wheel.

Renato90085

zos choose rework all the class and adjust the class mastery
beucase other idea easy happen power creep and do a 280k sbuclass meta again
now them both all can play
pure class maybe can hit more high dmg but need have optimise group and class IA gear(necro/temp/sorc/warden/arc),and some class is bad/hard in real content(IA sorc/bash necro)
subclass in real combat more good and not rely optimise group,and not only good use in parse dummy

beer781993

Making Pure classes meta in PVE again was the best move ZoS could have done.

Now I play Sorc, Templar, Necro and Blade again with different builds and setups. This is way more engaging and fun than 1 boring subclass setup on all characters.

Raid comp isn't 8 Arcs anymore, we have every class now.

A lot of old players I haven't seen in years came back, player numbers in general increased.

In my opinion subclassing should be removed entirely. It was a mistake.

ItsNotLiving

I love how they made Subclassing and pure class builds somewhat balanced and now everyone is playing pure class builds. Outside of this forum the system was never popular it just was the only way to play the game competitively.

BXR_Lonestar

Fantalior wrote: »

Pure classes are currently quite strong in ESO. However, it is notable that two "skill points"—rather than just one—can be allocated within the Class Mastery tree. I wonder if the intention was to also award a point to characters who retain at least two of their original class skill trees—effectively a "2/3 class" setup. This would also be a good way to better balance Class Mastery against the subclass system. What do you think of this idea? Could it help make the subclass system more attractive? At the very least, the extra effort involved in owning and leveling up different classes ought to be rewarded.

No. Subclassing is strong enough. The reason pureclasses are so strong NOW is because they didn't want to do what SHOULD have been done in the first place, which was remove subclassing. They also didn't want to nerf it to the point that it was pointless because the people who do like it would be upset. So the only thing they could do is leave subclassing in a broken state, and make pure classing just as broken to be on an even playing field with subclassing.

This is what I have been saying the whole time as to why their approach to this situation is wrong. If you don't address the elephant in the room - subclassing - which is broken, and you instead use it as a measuring bar against which you balance all other things, everything else is inevitably going to be broken as well.

Radiate77

No; Subclassing is objectively worse in all scenarios as you lose access to overpowered passives that buff not only yourself, but your entire group.

One such example being 300 weapon/spell damage for your group, and 600 weapon/spell for you just for existing as a “pure” Templar…

God forbid you swap out Restoring Light for a worse skill line, like Living Death.

Why would anyone Subclass when the game punishes you to do so?

gamergirldk

Sorry, Subclassing can cherry pick the best skill lines. Pureclass need some jucy mastery options. But I do belive they will give them a makeover again.

tomofhyrule

Radiate77 wrote: »

Why would anyone Subclass when the game punishes you to do so?

Probably the same reason that people would play pureclass before the Mastery came out.
But I notice you didn’t seem to take issue with Subclassing being obscenely more powerful that pureclassing…

The goal is that at the end of the refreshes, sub-and pure-classes should be on a more level playing field… but that requires the refreshes to finish first. And we’re still at the point where we can’t even guarantee that the next refresh will be coming as expected.

CatalinaWineMixer2

Subclassing should be removed. They never should have done it in the first place. Nothing has chased more people out of the game. Subclassing should not have access to Class sets let alone Class Passives. Subclassing is a broken cherry picking system that can not and will not ever be balanced.

Radiate77

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Why would anyone Subclass when the game punishes you to do so?

Probably the same reason that people would play pureclass before the Mastery came out.
But I notice you didn’t seem to take issue with Subclassing being obscenely more powerful that pureclassing…

The goal is that at the end of the refreshes, sub-and pure-classes should be on a more level playing field… but that requires the refreshes to finish first. And we’re still at the point where we can’t even guarantee that the next refresh will be coming as expected.

What are you talking about?

I never argued against the fact that certain skill lines were overperforming, and made it a point to avoid using them in anything but thematic builds.

What I did argue, was that despite the one meta build being a problem, a problem that even I highlighted several times, Subclassing opened the door to many amazing, creative, options.