Argh my eyes!

Gabriel_H · July 3

I though the VFX were bad for my eyes, little did I know:

No! Just ... no!

Froil · July 3

Yes actually that's called art. Look at all the famous works that include nude bodies. Though this thread is getting woefully antagonistic and is guaranteed to get closed soon enough.

Alphawolf01A · July 3

Not being antagonistic. Just pointing out the hypocritical nature of the modern audience. Rules for me and rules for thee.

YffresTrill · July 3

I don't think a double-standard applies here. Just look at the statue of Dibella.

But the fanservice for this particular NPC sure is getting old.

Froil · July 3

That fits Dibella perfectly, as the goddess of art and beauty. A shame we wouldn't get that though.

Alphawolf01A · July 3

And WHY won't we get that? Because of double standards.

BretonMage · July 3

YffresTrill wrote: »

But the fanservice for this particular NPC sure is getting old.

Exactly this. This (the furnishing pack) was the most over-the-top fan service thing I'd seen ZOS do, it does not bode well.

LunaFlora · July 3

that is what Darien looks like in one of the Rivenspire zone story quests from the 2014 base game.

the painting is the slightly changed version ZOS posted the first time on 2021 Valentine's Day.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-render-Darien.jpg#mw-jump-to-license
https://x.com/TESOnline/status/1360967121912688641?s=20

Alphawolf01A · July 3

LunaFlora wrote: »

that is what Darien looks like in one of the Rivenspire zone story quests from the 2014 base game.

the painting is the slightly changed version ZOS posted the first time on 2021 Valentine's Day.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-render-Darien.jpg#mw-jump-to-license
https://x.com/TESOnline/status/1360967121912688641?s=20

I remember. But, would the acceptance of the painting be the same, if it were of his companion on the bed behind him, as she is.

LunaFlora · July 3

Alphawolf01A wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

that is what Darien looks like in one of the Rivenspire zone story quests from the 2014 base game.

the painting is the slightly changed version ZOS posted the first time on 2021 Valentine's Day.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-render-Darien.jpg#mw-jump-to-license
https://x.com/TESOnline/status/1360967121912688641?s=20

I remember. But, would the acceptance of the painting be the same, if it were of his companion on the bed behind him, as she is.

no, she is a captain we meet once during that specific quest.
Darien is a beloved character we adventure with throughout the base game, Summerset, and Solstice. pretty huge difference

Prophet_of_Malacath · July 3

He's a meme that isn't for all of us. Fine for those who do, if they do.

If you want equality in tone, your best shots are:

Naryu Virian (5 zones, flirty)
Darien (8 zones)
Razum-dar (10 zones, also suave)

If you want by most appearances:

Lady Laurent & Stibbons (10 zones)
The Vanos Siblings (9 zones)
Lyranth (9 appearances)
Captain Kaleen (8 zones)
Crafty Lerisa (7 zones)

Mind, I've no use for excess humans - Dunmer, Khajiit, Bosmer, Argonian, Orc - things that are specific to the fiction of TES (as opposed to generic humans). An illustration of Vivec would feel on-brand, as would a sort of "beloved leader" portrait of Ayem, etc.

Honorable mention to Hermaeus Mora (8 zones) because I'm sure some folks have that rot, lol.

For what it's worth, the paintings are probably easier for an artist to churn out since the image existed. The statue is up to whoever finds use for it.

LunaFlora · July 3

Prophet_of_Malacath wrote: »

He's a meme that isn't for all of us. Fine for those who do, if they do.

If you want equality in tone, your best shots are:
Naryu Virian (5 zones, flirty)

Darien (8 zones)

Razum-dar (10 zones, also suave)

If you want by most appearances:
Lady Laurent & Stibbons (10 zones)

The Vanos Siblings (9 zones)

Lyranth (9 appearances)

Captain Kaleen (8 zones)

Crafty Lerisa (7 zones)

Mind, I've no use for excess humans - Dunmer, Khajiit, Bosmer, Argonian, Orc - things that are specific to the fiction of TES (as opposed to generic humans). An illustration of Vivec would feel on-brand, as would a sort of "beloved leader" portrait of Ayem, etc.

Honorable mention to Hermaeus Mora (8 zones) because I'm sure some folks have that rot, lol.

For what it's worth, the paintings are probably easier for an artist to churn out since the image existed. The statue is up to whoever finds use for it.

yes exactly!

Soarora · July 3

I love Darien, he’s one of my favorite characters in ESO. I could not care less about the paintings. I might get it for the statue, might not, but if anything I don’t want the paintings. They feel gaudy and out of place (in-universe, why would we have these paintings?).

Here’s the thing. ZOS keeps taking a single note from a well written quest segment and keeps repeating it until it’s groan-worthy. They do this with cheese and Sheogorath, to the point that the “joke” has long since been removed from the context of its original telling. They do this with Darien and the bread scene.

It was funny THE FIRST TIME. Look, I love bread, but by the light of Meridia, stop referencing that one scene.

Soarora · July 3

As for the fact that he is shirtless, posed paintings of commonly “appreciated” NPCs could work as a painting pack. In-universe it’d make sense as a commissioned painting of your lover. This pose isn’t working very well for him though, I wish it was less “true to the scene” and more artsy. I suppose it could be argued as “this scene is an inside joke between us” but we also never bring it up to him again, so, it’d have to be headcanon…

Alphawolf01A · July 3

Soarora wrote: »

I love Darien, he’s one of my favorite characters in ESO. I could not care less about the paintings. I might get it for the statue, might not, but if anything I don’t want the paintings. They feel gaudy and out of place (in-universe, why would we have these paintings?).

Here’s the thing. ZOS keeps taking a single note from a well written quest segment and keeps repeating it until it’s groan-worthy. They do this with cheese and Sheogorath, to the point that the “joke” has long since been removed from the context of its original telling. They do this with Darien and the bread scene.

It was funny THE FIRST TIME. Look, I love bread, but by the light of Meridia, stop referencing that one scene.

Agree 100%! ZOS runs thing into the ground sometimes. I mean, they have killed him and brought him back, twice. He's little more than a fanservice meme at this point and Sheo's not far behind. They even had a fan fiction level event where Darien's voice actor read "your thirstiest" comments (ZOS's words, not mine) and this picture was at the top of the page. It was cringe worthy then and it is still now.

spartaxoxo · July 3

Alphawolf01A wrote: »

[snip]

Almalexia has been around a lot longer than Darien. Nocturnal and her Shrike's. They have even begun selling way more skimpy dresses and battle bras.

But, one dude gets treated to sexy stuff sells look that has been how many female characters have been presented for this franchise's entire lifespan and suddenly you get these kinds of comments and threads.

Complaining when a male character gets the same treatment, or heaven forbid, a female character isn't hot is what causes those labels. It's got nothing to do with the fact that some female characters are just hot because sexy stuff sells. It's the constant online backlash to anyone else getting marketed towards too.

Edit

More examples

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Lusty_Argonian_Maid

[edited to remove quote]

virtus753 · July 3

Historically these categories and the people put into them have not had equal power, representation, or rights, so unfortunately there is a lot more going on than a straightforward “what’s (not) good for the goose.” Sexualizing both equally doesn’t erase the very problematic history of objectifying the female form. On the other hand, disallowing women to be sexual is all too often symptomatic of the same kind of attempts to control that same form.

That all said, double standards can and do chafe. Screenshots of in-game ESO Almalexia posted here on the forums in good faith as part of a conversation on the Timbercrow costume got removed because they were “too mature,” but discussion of the act for which Wankeen is named was explicitly deemed ok because “the developers opened the door to that.” I’m still stumped how in-game Almalexia is too mature for the forums but male masturbation is not. It also makes it harder to see that double standard continue in game.

Felkara · July 3

Alphawolf01A wrote: »

[snip]

Oh please. Nocturnal and all their servants are female in next to nothing, mermaid of anvil statue is topless, dibella statue is topless. Did you make a post asking for those?

It seems like you’re only finding an issue with this because ESO is a game that is actually good at having equality for male/female characters, and you have a problem that it isn’t just females.

Most other games always has been a male covered head to toe and a female in a bikini.

ZOS is actually good about having armor be the same on both options and having characters in the game for everyone.
[edited to remove quote]

virtus753 · July 3

Felkara wrote: »

ZOS is actually good about having armor be the same on both options and having characters in the game for everyone.

While I do really appreciate we can put the same outfit on a lot of characters, I am going to reiterate the pain point here that is the Baker’s costume. This is a massive exception where ZOS ended up sending the message (perhaps unintentionally, but it was still easily foreseeable) that women belong in dresses and men belong in pants. I have no idea why they didn’t just add both styles to the collections rather than insisting on gendering these variants in a way that was out of date half a century ago. I don’t know when it was designed, but it was first made available in 2019. It’s unacceptable imo, and a huge miss for a studio that has actually done a lot for representation in many areas.

Mattymoo92 · July 3

It wouldn’t get taken down… they literally proved this with the latest statues and outfits… again looking for a reason to be offended

ZOS_Icy · July 3

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth in addition to some off-topic posts from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

The Elder Scrolls Online Team

Alphawolf01A · July 3

A sexy outfit is not the same as portraying someone in a sexual manner. And I'm not offended by either.

Soarora · July 3

virtus753 wrote: »

Historically these categories and the people put into them have not had equal power, representation, or rights, so unfortunately there is a lot more going on than a straightforward “what’s (not) good for the goose.” Sexualizing both equally doesn’t erase the very problematic history of objectifying the female form. On the other hand, disallowing women to be sexual is all too often symptomatic of the same kind of attempts to control that same form.

Yeah, it’s more complicated than “either sexualize them both or sexualize neither!”. It’s not just a random painting of a nondescript man, nor is it a sexualized painting of a reserved and non-sexual character, nor is it a painting of a character whose entire personality is being a sexual creature, this is a character who is well-written and flirts with the Vestige (edit: if you are a woman, so I guess it’d be weird if you had these paintings as a man? I dunno, hype up your brother or something. I’m a woman, I don’t know how bromance works.). We’ve gotten to know him over many quests. Most of which, he’s fully clothed for. An adult in a sexual context isn’t inherently objectification, it’s normal. If, say, we had companion romance arcs, then I think it’d be fine to have mature paintings of Mirri, Isobel, and Ember.

It’s just annoying that it’s just another “bread scene” joke.

BretonMage · July 3

What's annoying to me is that we keep getting content with the same NPCs, over and over and over, every single DLC. Darien, Raz, Sheo, Naryu, Lyranth. And now it's an entire furnishing pack with no one else but Darien.

Tamriel seems to be getting smaller with each passing year.

tomofhyrule · July 3

Soarora wrote: »

I love Darien, he’s one of my favorite characters in ESO. I could not care less about the paintings. I might get it for the statue, might not, but if anything I don’t want the paintings. They feel gaudy and out of place (in-universe, why would we have these paintings?).

Here’s the thing. ZOS keeps taking a single note from a well written quest segment and keeps repeating it until it’s groan-worthy. They do this with cheese and Sheogorath, to the point that the “joke” has long since been removed from the context of its original telling. They do this with Darien and the bread scene.

It was funny THE FIRST TIME. Look, I love bread, but by the light of Meridia, stop referencing that one scene.

This is my problem with ESO's writing in general.

Every single time, it's "we're bringing back a fan-favorite character who has no business being in [insert zone here], but this allows them to show off [insert single throwaway joke] every single quest! Because if it was funny the first time, it naturally follows that it will be even funnier the 67th time!"

I'm actively dreading the Sheogorath questline because I [SNIP]ING HATE THE "lol cheese" personality he's had since Shivering Isles. Daggerfall's Sheogorath wasn't like that. Morrowind's Sheogorath wasn't like that. And then they put in one Daedric quest in Oblivion for Sheo and were like "yep, that's his entire personality for the rest of time now. It's so quirky and funny!"

Isn't it interesting that people have been complaining about pretty well every ESO storyline since Summerset? And if we look at the only characters people have said they enjoyed since then: Sharp, Zerith, Steven Mornard, Siravaen... hmm, it seems these characters aren't caricatures of themselves and they have more than a single personality trait. Gee, what are the odds...?

spartaxoxo · July 3

Froil wrote: »

That fits Dibella perfectly, as the goddess of art and beauty. A shame we wouldn't get that though.

We have a naked Dibella statute. So, we would get that. They'll probably give similar romance options to Naryu and Raz at some point.

Soarora · July 3

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I love Darien, he’s one of my favorite characters in ESO. I could not care less about the paintings. I might get it for the statue, might not, but if anything I don’t want the paintings. They feel gaudy and out of place (in-universe, why would we have these paintings?).

Here’s the thing. ZOS keeps taking a single note from a well written quest segment and keeps repeating it until it’s groan-worthy. They do this with cheese and Sheogorath, to the point that the “joke” has long since been removed from the context of its original telling. They do this with Darien and the bread scene.

It was funny THE FIRST TIME. Look, I love bread, but by the light of Meridia, stop referencing that one scene.

This is my problem with ESO's writing in general.

Every single time, it's "we're bringing back a fan-favorite character who has no business being in [insert zone here], but this allows them to show off [insert single throwaway joke] every single quest! Because if it was funny the first time, it naturally follows that it will be even funnier the 67th time!"

I'm actively dreading the Sheogorath questline because I [SNIP]ING HATE THE "lol cheese" personality he's had since Shivering Isles. Daggerfall's Sheogorath wasn't like that. Morrowind's Sheogorath wasn't like that. And then they put in one Daedric quest in Oblivion for Sheo and were like "yep, that's his entire personality for the rest of time now. It's so quirky and funny!"

I am also dreading the fact that there’s a golden pursuit for doing the Sheogorath quest. I know I said on PTS that I liked it but omg he is so stupid during that quest. And as for the cheese joke, the punchline isn’t even the concept of cheese. The quest includes a specific piece of cheese but the punchline for that is dogs raining on Khajiit. Then the joke references the quest.

tomofhyrule · July 3

Soarora wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I love Darien, he’s one of my favorite characters in ESO. I could not care less about the paintings. I might get it for the statue, might not, but if anything I don’t want the paintings. They feel gaudy and out of place (in-universe, why would we have these paintings?).

Here’s the thing. ZOS keeps taking a single note from a well written quest segment and keeps repeating it until it’s groan-worthy. They do this with cheese and Sheogorath, to the point that the “joke” has long since been removed from the context of its original telling. They do this with Darien and the bread scene.

It was funny THE FIRST TIME. Look, I love bread, but by the light of Meridia, stop referencing that one scene.

This is my problem with ESO's writing in general.

Every single time, it's "we're bringing back a fan-favorite character who has no business being in [insert zone here], but this allows them to show off [insert single throwaway joke] every single quest! Because if it was funny the first time, it naturally follows that it will be even funnier the 67th time!"

I'm actively dreading the Sheogorath questline because I [SNIP]ING HATE THE "lol cheese" personality he's had since Shivering Isles. Daggerfall's Sheogorath wasn't like that. Morrowind's Sheogorath wasn't like that. And then they put in one Daedric quest in Oblivion for Sheo and were like "yep, that's his entire personality for the rest of time now. It's so quirky and funny!"

I am also dreading the fact that there’s a golden pursuit for doing the Sheogorath quest. I know I said on PTS that I liked it but omg he is so stupid during that quest. And as for the cheese joke, the punchline isn’t even the concept of cheese. The quest includes a specific piece of cheese but the punchline for that is dogs raining on Khajiit. Then the joke references the quest.

Yeah, when I saw there was a Golden Pursuit for it too, I groaned.

I'm not a fan of the last PTS having Seasonal Challenges for doing the new quests. I've always preferred doing the quests on my own time so I wouldn't have to compete with the entire server (and all of their flappies) to see who was talking to me, but now we're going to be getting Challenges to strong-arm us into doing the quests as they release. And now in addition to that, we're getting a Golden Pursuit to further push us into speedrunning the Sheo questline quickly.

If I were more cynical, I'd say that's so that someone can claim that it was so well received by the fans because the fans grinded out the quests right away and therefore they should give us more cringe-filled writing.

I guess this is what they meant in the January reveal when the team said "We're going back to our strengths: the stories." Honestly if they consider all of this cringe to be the best part of the game... uhhh, that's not good.

Tallon_IV · July 3

As others have mentioned, my main issue is they're driving Darien into the ground like with Sheogorath and cheese.

cyclonus11 · July 3

Your arguments are invalid

ON-furnishing-An_Alfiq_in_Skingrad_Painting%2C_Metal.jpg

16BitForestCat · July 3

Soarora wrote: »

I am also dreading the fact that there’s a golden pursuit for doing the Sheogorath quest. I know I said on PTS that I liked it but omg he is so stupid during that quest. And as for the cheese joke, the punchline isn’t even the concept of cheese. The quest includes a specific piece of cheese but the punchline for that is dogs raining on Khajiit. Then the joke references the quest.

At first, I read this as the PTS quest requiring a specific piece of cheese with the ultimate goal of raining dogs on Khajiit, and was like, "Wait. Wait. Wait. That's literally just the plot of the Sheogorath Daedric shrine quest in TES4." And it's kinda sad that the state of ESO writing lately made me find it plausible that the team would just straight-up reuse the plot from an older Elder Scrolls game.