Stop screaming to nerf DK and Werewolf

ElderSmitter

Everyone who is asking for the DK and Werewolf to be nerfed needs to realize that the other classes have yet to get a rework so it seems like these 2 classes are over performing. They are not. They are in line post rework. When all the classes get their reworks you won't see much of a difference but for now yes, it may seem over tuned but they are not!

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers

Regards
ElderSmitter

MikeSkyrim333

Nerf now, up then, or you want to play broken pvp in several years?

hoangdz

Yea except that some people have to wait more than a year for their class' rework, and that's assuming there are no delays.

Just curious, do you play a DK or WW? If you do, then I suggest not telling people to "wait" for a year and be severely disadvantaged in PvP while you're running around on a clearly buffed up class. It sounds really tone-deaf.

If you don't play DK or WW, then congrats for having the perserverance to stick to the plan, but keep in mind that not many people are willing to wait out a year or two just to have a chance at actually competing on their main class.

The compromise was the class mastery system, but ZOS again failed to balance it properly. Plenty of people have given feedback on the forums only to be met with either worse adjustments or negligence. It's only fair that we voice our complaints so ZOS can hopefully trace back to the correct path.

SilentHil

Great, i hate playing ww so i wont be playing. Good luck to against other ww's because frustrated ppl will be less.

Usureki

My go-to class, Arcanist is going to be revamped by end of 2027. They are already late with Warden, so I have my worries. Oh yeah, they've delivered a Class Mastery system in the meanwhile, but in which the passives for Arcanist are bugged to this very day. Sorry sir, no more patience from my side.

LadyGP

Wardens: "Hold my beer"

Luneca

Oh no, if people keep complaining, ZOS might just take action like they did with Shattered Paths! Oh the humanity! Whatever will I do if my advantage on DK and WW gets cut even 1%?

rlindsey912nub18_ESO

No we will not hush until zos does something it’s 2026 no reason or excuses to why they are limited to one class at a time

CannedChicken

Great so your advice is to uninstall the game for 2 years until they complete the reworks. Okay thanks.

Tommy_The_Gun

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

Nerf now, up then, or you want to play broken pvp in several years?

That is... quite literally how it has been since like 11 years or more. PvP will never be balanced since it is not a moba or e-sport game. There will be always something that is incredibly strong & abused.

Wuuffyy

rlindsey912nub18_ESO wrote: »

No we will not hush until zos does something it’s 2026 no reason or excuses to why they are limited to one class at a time

Better ZOS to have taken their time and actually have made meaningful changes than the alternative (not having done this at all).

Many devs/studios simply don’t rehash a lot of old content let alone core content (classes) in such an egregious manner as it usually cannot be easily represented in a fiscal way-

(in other words, I can’t necessarily ‘sell’ you more of what you already have ~again I can’t really count on you subbing again, etc. in a quantifiable way prehand~/ count on a player that had no interest in a class coming to play the game for the reworked version of that class they had no measurable interest in before).

MikeSkyrim333

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

Nerf now, up then, or you want to play broken pvp in several years?

That is... quite literally how it has been since like 11 years or more. PvP will never be balanced since it is not a moba or e-sport game. There will be always something that is incredibly strong & abused.

Pvp was pretty stable before dk and ww rework

Estin

hoangdz wrote: »

Yea except that some people have to wait more than a year for their class' rework, and that's assuming there are no delays.

Just curious, do you play a DK or WW? If you do, then I suggest not telling people to "wait" for a year and be severely disadvantaged in PvP while you're running around on a clearly buffed up class. It sounds really tone-deaf.

If you don't play DK or WW, then congrats for having the perserverance to stick to the plan, but keep in mind that not many people are willing to wait out a year or two just to have a chance at actually competing on their main class.

The compromise was the class mastery system, but ZOS again failed to balance it properly. Plenty of people have given feedback on the forums only to be met with either worse adjustments or negligence. It's only fair that we voice our complaints so ZOS can hopefully trace back to the correct path.

I wouldn't call class mastery a failure. Sorc, Warden, and Necro benefited greatly from it. It's really only Templar and NB who are still behind because their class masteries didn't do much to help them. I'm fully expecting U51 PTS to include some adjustments to the system for the classes that really need it.

Wuuffyy

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

Nerf now, up then, or you want to play broken pvp in several years?

That is... quite literally how it has been since like 11 years or more. PvP will never be balanced since it is not a moba or e-sport game. There will be always something that is incredibly strong & abused.

Pvp was pretty stable before dk and ww rework

*stagnant

Subclassing meta (I’m talking NB/warden/sorc) ran absolutely supreme. This is working to change that.

Jerall’s did and still exists (up to 50% healing reduction with that plus blast bones). Rush of agony remained in prime condition. Monomyth still existed.

I mean come on lol 😂

hoangdz

Estin wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Yea except that some people have to wait more than a year for their class' rework, and that's assuming there are no delays.

Just curious, do you play a DK or WW? If you do, then I suggest not telling people to "wait" for a year and be severely disadvantaged in PvP while you're running around on a clearly buffed up class. It sounds really tone-deaf.

If you don't play DK or WW, then congrats for having the perserverance to stick to the plan, but keep in mind that not many people are willing to wait out a year or two just to have a chance at actually competing on their main class.

The compromise was the class mastery system, but ZOS again failed to balance it properly. Plenty of people have given feedback on the forums only to be met with either worse adjustments or negligence. It's only fair that we voice our complaints so ZOS can hopefully trace back to the correct path.

I wouldn't call class mastery a failure. Sorc, Warden, and Necro benefited greatly from it. It's really only Templar and NB who are still behind because their class masteries didn't do much to help them. I'm fully expecting U51 PTS to include some adjustments to the system for the classes that really need it.

It was a failure because:

1) NB was given false promises with 25% crit damage & healing from the stream reveal, yet only gained 7% on PTS during first week and even received a further REDUCTION to 5% after people pointed out how lackluster it was. NB should have gotten the full 25% value.

2) DK overperformed with the Wildfire + Pyrebrand interaction during the first PTS week. While ZOS did address it partially towards the end of the cycle, they buffed Disintegrating to proc Wildfire more, making the whole change largely insignificant. DKs with Wildfire dominates most matchup except for Sorcs (which is either a stalemate or still a win condition for the DK). That passive + Pyrebrand combination needs to seriously disappear from the game if you want any semblance of balance. An extremely bursty class should not have equally good DoT pressure, as it simply breaks the game.

3) Sorc being too tanky with Conservation of Energy. They should have retained the 1k stam & mag sustain from that passive and made the heal proc off of Sorc abilities only or given it a flat value instead.

Arunei

rlindsey912nub18_ESO wrote: »

No we will not hush until zos does something it’s 2026 no reason or excuses to why they are limited to one class at a time

Uh there are plenty of reasons, actually. Like, idk, them also working on how many other updates and additions to the game alongside reworks? And each rework takes several months to get working enough to be put on PTS. I mean heck PTS isn't even going up "on time" for U51 because they said they needed some extra time for polish and we know that to at least some extent it's to do with Warden's rework. They can't just flip a few switches and push out entire overhauls to whole Classes in like one month or something.

ElderSmitter

hoangdz wrote: »

Yea except that some people have to wait more than a year for their class' rework, and that's assuming there are no delays.

Just curious, do you play a DK or WW? If you do, then I suggest not telling people to "wait" for a year and be severely disadvantaged in PvP while you're running around on a clearly buffed up class. It sounds really tone-deaf.

If you don't play DK or WW, then congrats for having the perserverance to stick to the plan, but keep in mind that not many people are willing to wait out a year or two just to have a chance at actually competing on their main class.

The compromise was the class mastery system, but ZOS again failed to balance it properly. Plenty of people have given feedback on the forums only to be met with either worse adjustments or negligence. It's only fair that we voice our complaints so ZOS can hopefully trace back to the correct path.

I am a pure class Templar doing 130k DPS. I also Main Tank I cannot wait for my rework and look forward to it and am not worried about the DK nor the werewolf and i hope all of them are enjoying their rework.

hoangdz

ElderSmitter wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Yea except that some people have to wait more than a year for their class' rework, and that's assuming there are no delays.

Just curious, do you play a DK or WW? If you do, then I suggest not telling people to "wait" for a year and be severely disadvantaged in PvP while you're running around on a clearly buffed up class. It sounds really tone-deaf.

If you don't play DK or WW, then congrats for having the perserverance to stick to the plan, but keep in mind that not many people are willing to wait out a year or two just to have a chance at actually competing on their main class.

The compromise was the class mastery system, but ZOS again failed to balance it properly. Plenty of people have given feedback on the forums only to be met with either worse adjustments or negligence. It's only fair that we voice our complaints so ZOS can hopefully trace back to the correct path.

I am a pure class Templar doing 130k DPS. I also Main Tank I cannot wait for my rework and look forward to it and am not worried about the DK nor the werewolf and i hope all of them are enjoying their rework.

Oh, you're a PvEr. That explains why you think it's fine. Try PvP for a day on your Templar vs a DK or a WW and you'll probably retract that statement.

There absolutely needs to be a compromise in PvP if they're going to drag out the class reworks. Either that or nerf the current reworked classes and rebuff them later. It's unacceptable that people have to wait for a year or two just to play their main class.

IZZEFlameLash

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

Nerf now, up then, or you want to play broken pvp in several years?

That is... quite literally how it has been since like 11 years or more. PvP will never be balanced since it is not a moba or e-sport game. There will be always something that is incredibly strong & abused.

Pvp was pretty stable before dk and ww rework

Stable huh... like that's ever been a thing in ESO PvP scene.

MRAW

hoangdz wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Yea except that some people have to wait more than a year for their class' rework, and that's assuming there are no delays.

Just curious, do you play a DK or WW? If you do, then I suggest not telling people to "wait" for a year and be severely disadvantaged in PvP while you're running around on a clearly buffed up class. It sounds really tone-deaf.

If you don't play DK or WW, then congrats for having the perserverance to stick to the plan, but keep in mind that not many people are willing to wait out a year or two just to have a chance at actually competing on their main class.

The compromise was the class mastery system, but ZOS again failed to balance it properly. Plenty of people have given feedback on the forums only to be met with either worse adjustments or negligence. It's only fair that we voice our complaints so ZOS can hopefully trace back to the correct path.

I am a pure class Templar doing 130k DPS. I also Main Tank I cannot wait for my rework and look forward to it and am not worried about the DK nor the werewolf and i hope all of them are enjoying their rework.

Oh, you're a PvEr. That explains why you think it's fine. Try PvP for a day on your Templar vs a DK or a WW and you'll probably retract that statement.

There absolutely needs to be a compromise in PvP if they're going to drag out the class reworks. Either that or nerf the current reworked classes and rebuff them later. It's unacceptable that people have to wait for a year or two just to play their main class.

Funny how the other thread complains about Templar healers and how OP they are in BGs now since they can perma ult

nightbringer1993

ElderSmitter wrote: »

Everyone who is asking for the DK and Werewolf to be nerfed needs to realize that the other classes have yet to get a rework so it seems like these 2 classes are over performing. They are not. They are in line post rework. When all the classes get their reworks you won't see much of a difference but for now yes, it may seem over tuned but they are not!

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers

Regards
ElderSmitter

The game is unplayable for classes that are being refreshed next year, especially necromancers, the most nerfed class in the game.

We can no longer wait!

For five years necromancers have been nerfed again and again, we were the ones who asked for a refresh the most for those years, and we were told to wait two more years when the class refresh got announced. Do you imagine the insult we received that day.

And then you have class like DK or warden who are destroying PvP and making people leave the game. I saw the PvP population drop over those years, and when that DK patch went live, cyro was dead. Just people doing map cap where the map was either full blue or full red due to people not playing because their class got nerfed due to classes like warden and DK being OP.

The big problem is that those people who left the game might not come back. Even if their class is refreshed.

Refreshing the strongest classes first was a mistake!

IZZEFlameLash

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

Everyone who is asking for the DK and Werewolf to be nerfed needs to realize that the other classes have yet to get a rework so it seems like these 2 classes are over performing. They are not. They are in line post rework. When all the classes get their reworks you won't see much of a difference but for now yes, it may seem over tuned but they are not!

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers

Regards
ElderSmitter

The game is unplayable for classes that are being refreshed next year, especially necromancers, the most nerfed class in the game.

We can no longer wait!

For five years necromancers have been nerfed again and again, we were the ones who asked for a refresh the most for those years, and we were told to wait two more years when the class refresh got announced. Do you imagine the insult we received that day.

And then you have class like DK or warden who are destroying PvP and making people leave the game. I saw the PvP population drop over those years, and when that DK patch went live, cyro was dead. Just people doing map cap where the map was either full blue or full red due to people not playing because their class got nerfed due to classes like warden and DK being OP.

The big problem is that those people who left the game might not come back. Even if their class is refreshed.

Refreshing the strongest classes first was a mistake!

Think of it as being given more time to come up with the defense thesis for your favorite class when the rework drops for it

hoangdz

MRAW wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Yea except that some people have to wait more than a year for their class' rework, and that's assuming there are no delays.

Just curious, do you play a DK or WW? If you do, then I suggest not telling people to "wait" for a year and be severely disadvantaged in PvP while you're running around on a clearly buffed up class. It sounds really tone-deaf.

If you don't play DK or WW, then congrats for having the perserverance to stick to the plan, but keep in mind that not many people are willing to wait out a year or two just to have a chance at actually competing on their main class.

The compromise was the class mastery system, but ZOS again failed to balance it properly. Plenty of people have given feedback on the forums only to be met with either worse adjustments or negligence. It's only fair that we voice our complaints so ZOS can hopefully trace back to the correct path.

I am a pure class Templar doing 130k DPS. I also Main Tank I cannot wait for my rework and look forward to it and am not worried about the DK nor the werewolf and i hope all of them are enjoying their rework.

Oh, you're a PvEr. That explains why you think it's fine. Try PvP for a day on your Templar vs a DK or a WW and you'll probably retract that statement.

There absolutely needs to be a compromise in PvP if they're going to drag out the class reworks. Either that or nerf the current reworked classes and rebuff them later. It's unacceptable that people have to wait for a year or two just to play their main class.

Funny how the other thread complains about Templar healers and how OP they are in BGs now since they can perma ult

Yea that's pretty much where it stops. They have no damage to threaten anyone decent lol. Basically a walking tank.

Usureki

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

Everyone who is asking for the DK and Werewolf to be nerfed needs to realize that the other classes have yet to get a rework so it seems like these 2 classes are over performing. They are not. They are in line post rework. When all the classes get their reworks you won't see much of a difference but for now yes, it may seem over tuned but they are not!

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers

Regards
ElderSmitter

The game is unplayable for classes that are being refreshed next year, especially necromancers, the most nerfed class in the game.

We can no longer wait!

For five years necromancers have been nerfed again and again, we were the ones who asked for a refresh the most for those years, and we were told to wait two more years when the class refresh got announced. Do you imagine the insult we received that day.

And then you have class like DK or warden who are destroying PvP and making people leave the game. I saw the PvP population drop over those years, and when that DK patch went live, cyro was dead. Just people doing map cap where the map was either full blue or full red due to people not playing because their class got nerfed due to classes like warden and DK being OP.

The big problem is that those people who left the game might not come back. Even if their class is refreshed.

Refreshing the strongest classes first was a mistake!

Think of it as being given more time to come up with the defense thesis for your favorite class when the rework drops for it

Think of it as hihihihi hahahahah huehuehue

aLi3nZ

Hey I’m all ok with dk and warewolf besides 1 thing.

They both have heals that are too strong. Making them damn near unkillable. Dk even more so due to being able to block more damage with passives.

So keep dk and warewolf as they are just nerf the warewolf heal a bit. And nerf dk heals a bit.

tomofhyrule

Another major part of this is that it’s starting to feel like ZOS is going right back into old habits - at least for one team.

We had the dev streams to talk about upcoming QoL changes, the upcoming Trial, the upcoming Nowhere Vault, the upcoming solo dungeons, the upcoming Rumors system…
You know the two upcoming things we haven’t heard a peep about? The next Class and this midsize PvP thing (the latter of which isn’t even on the roadmap).

At least Jess finally came in to the “What about Warden?” thread and actually said the word “Warden,” so that counts for something. But still - we still don’t have anything other than “Warden is next,” not even the idea if they’ll be keeping their three themes or if those of us who made Beastmaster Wardens will have to delete them if they go all-Frost-all-the-time.

To me, this is just showing that one of the devs - one of the old guard - is still hardcore on the “we want to keep secrets until we drop them because we know better than the players!” train. And if that thought process is pervading the Combat team, that’s just making pretty well anything in this game that’s Combat related a miserable experience. And despite people having so many good things to say about pretty well every other team in terms of communication and player-friendliness, the Combat team is still driving people off.

It’s honestly exhausting. Combat in general has been an unfun cluster since Subclassing dropped. True, the DK rework and Mastery made things better for me… but that’s because I main a DK and I loathed being forced to Subclass to hyperoptimize PvE encounters. But now the next rework is being pushed back with no indication whatsoever of how it’s going. At that rate, are we expecting every rework to just keep getting delayed and then leaving the last Class for like 2030?

Basically: it’d be a lot easier to sell “your Class’s refresh is coming and then the power levels will be equalized” if we had any indication that the other refreshes were anything more than just an idea.

olsborg

In terms of PvE pov too, nerf dk and ww, PvE content is already too easy before masteries even, and if every class will be taken to the dk and ww level in the future...this game will have no challenges left for PvE. (and if new PvE content is raised higher, that leaves 90% of the older content way too easy with only 10% and newer content challenging, wich isnt positive either)

katorga

They need to nerf both, pretty hard. Werewolf and DK are the only things reworked right now and that is why they are so dominant.

Classes that have been reworked should NOT get class masteries. Recall, they are a "band-aid" to tide classes over until they get re-worked. Class masteries should not work in werewolf form, period.

tbh, I expect ZOS to lose interest well before the last classes get reworked in 2027. I expect them to say class masteries and availability of werewolf for all classes is good enough. Reworking classes one at a time with a long interval between is completely unbalanced. They should have done them all at once or not at all.

Weesacs

Just give WW and DK their own lobby in BGs and I'd be happy. There are enough of them anyway. Let the rest of us play more balanced games.

CatalinaWineMixer2

They should have just removed Subclassing. And they still should, its a disaster. And they need to stop nerfing our characters over PvP. Its not your characters in there anyway. Its so bad nearly every set or skill has to have special rules to cater to the same people that have destroyed every good character and sets we have ever had for over a decade. It needs to stop, people are fed up with it. There is nothing wrong with the DK or the Werewolf. Its just supposedly hard core PvP sing their constant song, "Nerf this, nerf that" while they ruin it for everyone yet again.

I would rather see GH totally go away as a result of these constant nerfs than experience it with every character all over again which is the same thing that has happened for 11 years. @Zos Stop ruining our characters! Stop catering to these people and take control of combat. And start telling them, "No"

Bguk

It's as if no one has played an MMO before. Change always happens. It's baked in. And sometimes change occurs slow. There will always be something more powerful than something else. And that current powerful thing will eventually change to something else.