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The new PvP syteem sucks and here's why
Fiferr
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now every time i come online (i only play pvp) now i login and queue for cyro and it's always 50+ and takes well over 30 minutes. The pvp rewards are trash...who the hell cares about vengeance perks? Veng camp is dead anyway.. there's no one in there. Now we have a *** l,oad of ball groups up 100% of the time + theres small balls always seiging keeps from miles away on the mine. Unfamiliar people are not aware that they are there jut trolling. SO they cal lout in zone for help meaning our resources are stretched thin dealing with balls and troll 24/7..., Cyrodiil is utter *** now.
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Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭now every time i come online (i only play pvp) now i login and queue for cyro and it's always 50+ and takes well over 30 minutes. The pvp rewards are trash...who the hell cares about vengeance perks? Veng camp is dead anyway.. there's no one in there. Now we have a *** l,oad of ball groups up 100% of the time + theres small balls always seiging keeps from miles away on the mine. Unfamiliar people are not aware that they are there jut trolling. SO they cal lout in zone for help meaning our resources are stretched thin dealing with balls and troll 24/7..., Cyrodiil is utter *** now.
Hence ... Vengeance. Zero ball groups, Combat drops quicker. Performance issues are near non-existent.
If they shut Vengeance tomorrow the problems that exist in GH will still exist. What then? Another 10 years of players complaining about GH performance and ZOS trying to come up with a system that fixes the problem without altering GH passed some arbitrary point of acceptable?
As for "no one is there":
This:
Is more players than this:
GH has a population cap of 120 per alliance, Vengeance has a cap of 300 players per alliance.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!13 -
Fiferr✭✭✭Vengeance is a dead empty cvampaign... I run a pvp GH group. Should i tell my guild to just leave cyrodil and join veng...?3
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Fiferr✭✭✭Why should i have to endure the turmoil of *** stupid eso updates? If you've played for a while then i bet you are familiar with how *** some of the updates are...2
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Munkfist✭✭✭✭There really is no pleasing the PVP community. They argue with themselves more than the devs now.
Nothing Zos does will ever reach the expectations put on them, and half will enjoy the changes while half will hate it.
@Munkfist PC-NA
The Devoted Torchbugs
Antiquarian's Alpine Gallery Guildhall - Feel free to use!
If your guild needs a crafthall, please feel free to reach out!11 -
Fiferr✭✭✭Mate... We all *** left after we noticed the home keep wall was donw. The server went down for about 5 minutes. GH was de-listed. Many of us went off for the evning0
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Fiferr✭✭✭We were kicked form pvp, Then GH was no longer listed. The only pvp option was veng. So me and my guild callled it there and went off....1
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AllenaNightWood✭✭✭✭ive actually had better performance in greyhost last 2 days ive played some general lag but no werid combat lag or de sync in audio either1 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
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Hardcore GH PvPers aren't the majority either. In fact, they are very much the minority of the player base. I don't know if Vengeance will prove to be popular or not, but I do know claiming "Vengeance is a dead campaign" is demonstrably false, and that a few days of data isn't nearly enough to see long term trends.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!5 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Because GH is broken
GH was broken yesterday? Because today when I took those screenshots GH was up. It did go offline about 30 minutes later though. Any other demonstrably false claims you’d like to make?PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
CatalinaWineMixer2✭✭✭✭There really is no pleasing the PVP community. They argue with themselves more than the devs now.
Nothing Zos does will ever reach the expectations put on them, and half will enjoy the changes while half will hate it.
This is a big part of it. Vengeance is the right direction. Its nearly starting from the ground up and they keep in tweaking it with small very precise changes. That is the right method. It is within their control and with well established boundaries and rules. I dont agree that its dead in Vengeance at all and Ive been over there every day since it came back again. There have been some good groups in there too.
As others have pointed out, 10 more years of the constant broken cycle of GH isnt the answer. The reason PvP is in such bad shape is the state of what is happening over there. I still go but my Guilds will not go to GH anymore. And most of them wont even do BG now either. The combat is out of control in there. For so many different reasons. Entirely way too much dps being one of them.
They want to add proc sets and other things to Vengeance. Im curious to see how that pans out. And while I dont know if that's good or bad, its a small calculated change by the Devs. As it should be. So things dont get out of control as they are in GH. They are doing right with Vengeance. This is the correct way, slow and steady.1 -
JustLovely✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »There really is no pleasing the PVP community. They argue with themselves more than the devs now.
Nothing Zos does will ever reach the expectations put on them, and half will enjoy the changes while half will hate it.
This is a big part of it. Vengeance is the right direction. Its nearly starting from the ground up and they keep in tweaking it with small very precise changes. That is the right method. It is within their control and with well established boundaries and rules. I dont agree that its dead in Vengeance at all and Ive been over there every day since it came back again. There have been some good groups in there too.
As others have pointed out, 10 more years of the constant broken cycle of GH isnt the answer. The reason PvP is in such bad shape is the state of what is happening over there. I still go but my Guilds will not go to GH anymore. And most of them wont even do BG now either. The combat is out of control in there. For so many different reasons. Entirely way too much dps being one of them.
They want to add proc sets and other things to Vengeance. Im curious to see how that pans out. And while I dont know if that's good or bad, its a small calculated change by the Devs. As it should be. So things dont get out of control as they are in GH. They are doing right with Vengeance. This is the correct way, slow and steady.
Vengeance is the right direction if ZOS is trying to kill the game. Otherwise they need to do what they told us for over a decade they were doing; working to improve normal live Cyrodiil.7 -
Luneca✭✭✭CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »There really is no pleasing the PVP community. They argue with themselves more than the devs now.
Nothing Zos does will ever reach the expectations put on them, and half will enjoy the changes while half will hate it.
This is a big part of it. Vengeance is the right direction. Its nearly starting from the ground up and they keep in tweaking it with small very precise changes. That is the right method. It is within their control and with well established boundaries and rules. I dont agree that its dead in Vengeance at all and Ive been over there every day since it came back again. There have been some good groups in there too.
As others have pointed out, 10 more years of the constant broken cycle of GH isnt the answer. The reason PvP is in such bad shape is the state of what is happening over there. I still go but my Guilds will not go to GH anymore. And most of them wont even do BG now either. The combat is out of control in there. For so many different reasons. Entirely way too much dps being one of them.
They want to add proc sets and other things to Vengeance. Im curious to see how that pans out. And while I dont know if that's good or bad, its a small calculated change by the Devs. As it should be. So things dont get out of control as they are in GH. They are doing right with Vengeance. This is the correct way, slow and steady.
Gray Host is why PvP is in a bad state? It can't be the endless power creep and idea that we should regrind for essentially the same exact power that we had before with a "slight" advantage that has become the game's only defining game loop.
ZOS and their balance changes, ignoring input, and simply making bad design decisions overall is the cause of what's happening. They need to go and look at an alternate game loop other than "grind for power" and pretend that that power isn't causing creep, because it has and will continue to do so.
The powercreep is also prevalent in PvE. And it doesn't help when they "rework" things like werewolf and the power gained is so outrageous that maybe a video of someone soloing a trial boss that shouldn't be soloable will be posted soon to get it nerfed.3 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JustLovely wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »There really is no pleasing the PVP community. They argue with themselves more than the devs now.
Nothing Zos does will ever reach the expectations put on them, and half will enjoy the changes while half will hate it.
This is a big part of it. Vengeance is the right direction. Its nearly starting from the ground up and they keep in tweaking it with small very precise changes. That is the right method. It is within their control and with well established boundaries and rules. I dont agree that its dead in Vengeance at all and Ive been over there every day since it came back again. There have been some good groups in there too.
As others have pointed out, 10 more years of the constant broken cycle of GH isnt the answer. The reason PvP is in such bad shape is the state of what is happening over there. I still go but my Guilds will not go to GH anymore. And most of them wont even do BG now either. The combat is out of control in there. For so many different reasons. Entirely way too much dps being one of them.
They want to add proc sets and other things to Vengeance. Im curious to see how that pans out. And while I dont know if that's good or bad, its a small calculated change by the Devs. As it should be. So things dont get out of control as they are in GH. They are doing right with Vengeance. This is the correct way, slow and steady.
Vengeance is the right direction if ZOS is trying to kill the game. Otherwise they need to do what they told us for over a decade they were doing; working to improve normal live Cyrodiil.
Improving GH Cyro to the point where it is performant requires:
-reworking the ruleset until the game can handle all the calculations
or
-investing in more server resources to boost performance with the current GH ruleset
The first option is how we got Vengeance. That’s how substantial a rework it required to get PvP performant with the desired population on the current server hardware. The fact they went so far in on option 1 also suggests option 2 wasn’t considered viable.
That second option—further investment in resources—would be the only way to make GH performant while keeping the current ruleset. They told us years ago that hardware alone wouldn’t fix everything. Even if it would at least help significantly (thinking of the impact of the server hardware refresh), an additional investment there is almost certainly not something they can afford when they have to answer to Xbox, which is itself under extreme pressure.
The anemic growth in this sector of PC gaming in general right now is not what corporations want to see when they’ve invested so much and are obligated to pursue the highest RoI (even if that means cutting traditional PC gaming entirely—sorry, AGS). Xbox in particular is struggling very hard to meet expectations. Microsoft’s CFO wants to see a 30% margin. They’re currently at 3%. Hence the massive cuts last year, with further “significant” cuts forthcoming imminently, per reputable sources.
Ineffective investments have been explicitly called out here. Xbox’s new head shared that in the past five years they’ve invested $20 billion only to see their revenue decrease by half a billion. When she says those investments have left them “overextended” and it “cannot continue,” both new and continued investments are sure to face even more scrutiny. That works on a micro level as well as on the level of whole projects or studios (some of which have been cut already, with more on the horizon). Presumably that’s also why PvE has lost so much story content and new dungeons as well. Resources are going towards refreshing extant content and reusing assets for more ubiquitous FOMO-driven grinds designed to increase cash flow, with new cosmetics being the prime selling point to replace new content that wasn’t selling enough. The pullback on investment here is far from limited to GH or even PvP.2 -
VenomSheru✭✭
Yeah it’s not dead but dying surely
Hardcore GH PvPers aren't the majority either. In fact, they are very much the minority of the player base. I don't know if Vengeance will prove to be popular or not, but I do know claiming "Vengeance is a dead campaign" is demonstrably false, and that a few days of data isn't nearly enough to see long term trends.
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SundarahFr3akinrican✭✭✭✭There really is no pleasing the PVP community. They argue with themselves more than the devs now.
Nothing Zos does will ever reach the expectations put on them, and half will enjoy the changes while half will hate it.
The reason vengeance was even a thing was so ZoS could fix Cyro and appease the cyro community. But vengeance takes away everything that makes Cyrodi appealing to the original Cyro community.
It's like planning a meal for vegetarians and then hosting an all you can eat Brazilian Steak House and then saying "wow we ordered all this meat for yall and you aint even happy."
And yeah of course people will show up that love meat when they hear about it but the vegetarians this was meant for feel like they are being dismissed.Edited by SundarahFr3akinrican on June 11, 2026 9:22AM5 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭JustLovely wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »There really is no pleasing the PVP community. They argue with themselves more than the devs now.
Nothing Zos does will ever reach the expectations put on them, and half will enjoy the changes while half will hate it.
This is a big part of it. Vengeance is the right direction. Its nearly starting from the ground up and they keep in tweaking it with small very precise changes. That is the right method. It is within their control and with well established boundaries and rules. I dont agree that its dead in Vengeance at all and Ive been over there every day since it came back again. There have been some good groups in there too.
As others have pointed out, 10 more years of the constant broken cycle of GH isnt the answer. The reason PvP is in such bad shape is the state of what is happening over there. I still go but my Guilds will not go to GH anymore. And most of them wont even do BG now either. The combat is out of control in there. For so many different reasons. Entirely way too much dps being one of them.
They want to add proc sets and other things to Vengeance. Im curious to see how that pans out. And while I dont know if that's good or bad, its a small calculated change by the Devs. As it should be. So things dont get out of control as they are in GH. They are doing right with Vengeance. This is the correct way, slow and steady.
Vengeance is the right direction if ZOS is trying to kill the game. Otherwise they need to do what they told us for over a decade they were doing; working to improve normal live Cyrodiil.
Kill the game? So as people have been reporting this week the queue for GH tops out around 150. Lets double it, and presume it's the same for all Alliances. That's a total of 1,260 players, out of tens of thousands.
That's before taking account that only around 10 - 25% of players in MMOs play PvP, and less than 5% are PvP only. Y'all really need to stop with the hyperbole. It's getting embarrassing.
Edit: FormattingEdited by Gabriel_H on June 11, 2026 9:22AMPC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!4 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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PC UI Shows Vengeance population at 1 bar even if there are 0 players in the campaign (it's always worked like this)
There are 4 stages of population bar on the PC UI Low, Medium, High, Locked.
On Vengeance max = 300 (according to ZOS's numbers lets assume that's truthful even if in played experience it doesn't match)
This means the ranges would be as follows:
Low 0–74
Medium 75–149
High 150–224
Locked 225–300 (this is a range rather than only showing at 300 since we know that the population can show as locked but have no queue)
Assuming GH max is 120 (very unbelievable but lets go with it)
Low 0–29
Medium 30–59
High 60–89
Locked 90–120
So 2 bar Vengeance is likely just above 'High' on GH and 1 bar vengeance could be anywhere from Low - Medium on GH which we know is basically a 'dead' campaign.
This all assumes that the population bars are equal width and the total pop numbers given by ZOS are accurate, in actual 'played' experience I would expect that ZOS very quickly scales from Low to Medium to try and encourage more players in and then has a much higher range when 'locked' is shown.
The reason I say this is because in the past a campaign has been showing low population for my faction, I've group queued in with 15 players and it's gone to 'high'.Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on June 11, 2026 9:40AM@Solar_Breeze
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