The critter massacre in the challenge zones

Rishikesa108

1,000 kills for the seasonal challenge in three designated areas. In dungeons/delves, mobs don't count, but in the overland, all you need to do is kill a harmless little animal with a light attack (they have 1 hp) to boost your score.
Does that seem fair to you?
I obviously refrain from this senseless hunt for squirrels, deer, or the cute little Nixads, but I'm outraged by the obscene spectacle of thousands of players mercilessly crushing everything that moves. It disgusts me.
But what was the need for that?
This game often stands out for protecting certain minorities, and I'm pleased. Why not protect the sensibilities of those who oppose the killing of innocent little animals?
What demonstration of skill or strength is firing a light attack at a hare or a heron?
I hope ZOS reconsiders, and along with the promised fix to the zone dungeons/delves, that ZOS does not continue to encourage this needless slaughter.

Ardaghion

While the critters aren't real, I understand what you are getting at. I hate arriving in town and seeing just about every NPC lying on the ground and no other NPCs even notice. At least in Skyrim the NPCs and guards would react to a death even if you were in stealth mode.

I think the challenge to kill 1,000 "foes" should be taken literally, foes attack you so you can kill them. Killing something that isn't aggro'd shouldn't count. Edit: I think ZOS should increase the number of zones where foes can be killed.


Now, if there's a killer rabbit in the game, he had it coming.

DenverRalphy

Horkers drop polished ivory.

Ardaghion

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Horkers drop polished ivory.

I thought horkers aggro'd but I checked and that seems to be the case in Skyrim.

Since they are a valid target for a quest, they could be an exception. Maybe they could have more than a single health point, more like mudcrabs which can fight back.

zenonuk

I often go rabbit shooting in Wrothgar... it's how I feed my family. I go there because those cute black furry bunnies are so easy prey on that pure white snow. I sort of jest, but it's also true. Braised Rabbit is so tasty.

I'm not sure the quest/challenge is the issue. The problem is that people seem to want to complete it in hours/days, rather than the 80+ days that the season has left to run (this is a SEASONAL not weekly challenge after all). There is no rush to finish this particular quest/challenge, but people feel the need to do so. I don't think that is the fault of ZOS in the round.

True that perhaps some of the quests/challenges could be better designed or thought through... but at the end of the day, the runners and fast-pacers will always rush ahead and get there first.... and those of us who want a slower pace of life will always find our bunnies dead, and our families eating nothing but Baked Apples.

Arunei

I'm going to assume this is a joke post/satire or something, but in case it isn't...I hate to say this, but it's a game. If you don't want to kill animals you don't have to, but let's not try to impose real-world morals on a video game or claim that 'killing' pixels on a screen is 'slaughter'. Also you already seem to know that mobs in Delves/Dungeons not counting is a bug, so the whole "is this fair" thing is kind of a moot point anyway.

Silaf

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

1,000 kills for the seasonal challenge in three designated areas. In dungeons/delves, mobs don't count, but in the overland, all you need to do is kill a harmless little animal with a light attack (they have 1 hp) to boost your score.
Does that seem fair to you?
I obviously refrain from this senseless hunt for squirrels, deer, or the cute little Nixads, but I'm outraged by the obscene spectacle of thousands of players mercilessly crushing everything that moves. It disgusts me.
But what was the need for that?
This game often stands out for protecting certain minorities, and I'm pleased. Why not protect the sensibilities of those who oppose the killing of innocent little animals?
What demonstration of skill or strength is firing a light attack at a hare or a heron?
I hope ZOS reconsiders, and along with the promised fix to the zone dungeons/delves, that ZOS does not continue to encourage this needless slaughter.

On the other hand i'm kind of disappointed by the absence of satisfactory blood splatter. I'm enjoying the penguins little squeeks and the fact they run away but the gore element leve a lot to be desired.

I miss the times in Skirim when we had the wabbajack and could turn everything into a critter. Good times.
We need the introduction of an appropriate butcher costume too. Maybe next season?



This said if you impose real world morals on a videogame you should censor all Elder scrolls content.
All combat is murder.
Sheogorath should be muted.
Weapons are disturbing so we should replace them with flowers.

We already have the problem you can't literally criticize anything on the forums or they will replace the term "critique" with the term "bashing" with doesn't even really exist to have an excuse to censor.

ESO is rated as an adult game because of its contents and moral being subjective means everyone has his own. Satisfying everyone sensibilities mean progressively censoring all.

A game is a game real life is real life.
Killing innocent critters in real life for fun is an abomination and the very definition of stupidity but in a game is fun and should even make you laugh.
The same is true for Sheogorath or murdering bandits.

If you want revenge for the critters try playing "Poppy Playtime".

BretonMage

Arunei wrote: »

I'm going to assume this is a joke post/satire or something, but in case it isn't...I hate to say this, but it's a game. If you don't want to kill animals you don't have to, but let's not try to impose real-world morals on a video game or claim that 'killing' pixels on a screen is 'slaughter'. Also you already seem to know that mobs in Delves/Dungeons not counting is a bug, so the whole "is this fair" thing is kind of a moot point anyway.

If we feel our sensibilities stung by senseless slaughter, it's because it's natural for people with functioning empathy to feel for the suffering of others, and often even when we know the others aren't real. I mean, if games are "just games", what's the point of feeling moved by the characters of Baldur's Gate or Expedition 33? Or, for that matter, Romeo and Juliet?

Not saying I'd actually condemn the players who kill innocents in the game, but it's not pleasant to see either.

Silaf

BretonMage wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

I'm going to assume this is a joke post/satire or something, but in case it isn't...I hate to say this, but it's a game. If you don't want to kill animals you don't have to, but let's not try to impose real-world morals on a video game or claim that 'killing' pixels on a screen is 'slaughter'. Also you already seem to know that mobs in Delves/Dungeons not counting is a bug, so the whole "is this fair" thing is kind of a moot point anyway.

If we feel our sensibilities stung by senseless slaughter, it's because it's natural for people with functioning empathy to feel for the suffering of others, and often even when we know the others aren't real. I mean, if games are "just games", what's the point of feeling moved by the characters of Baldur's Gate or Expedition 33? Or, for that matter, Romeo and Juliet?

Not saying I'd actually condemn the players who kill innocents in the game, but it's not pleasant to see either.

Everyone has parts of the game they don't like it's inevitable. For example i don't like nightblades killing evidently questing players in imperial city. For me this is a matter of honor and i find them dishonorable.
This said we can't cut parts of the game to appeal to everyone because everyone has a part they want to cut and we will be left with nothing.

Hapexamendios

If it moves, it dies.

Ilumia

I get it, I have morals even for pixels, and it makes me feel happy to pet pixel dogs too.
But please do not complain to get this changed. It massively helps with the kill tasks and is really convenient.
I guess we can't have nice things.

Ataskir

Hircine demands I hunt, so hunt I must.

I want more challenges like these, they’re pretty fun for us werewolf players!

AcadianPaladin

My elf routinely and actively hunts rabbits. The meat is an ingredient for one of her two primary foods. Rabbits often drop guts as well and that is bait my elf uses for fishing - the meat used in her other primary recipe. Seems like responsible and efficient use of nature's bounty to me. Bastion could not understand this and it got him permanently fired.

More seriously though, I don't disagree with OP in principle. Senseless killing of nonhostile critters is perhaps not the best lesson to teach here. The big problem is the bug of not including delves and other dungeons - a bug ZoS hopefully fixes soon as there is plenty of time left for this task.

Ideally, I'd like to primarily accomplish this task via delve dailies over a long period of time but I'll likely be done before dungeons are included.

Rishikesa108

"It's just a game" someone says.
Of course.
But... why cats and dogs are unkillable in the game... is it not a game for those kind of animals?
You do not find any child in the game... why???
So please, don't say things that contradict the evidence, please.

Syldras

And where would player characters be able to gather cooking ingredients like red meat, poultry and game from? Should it grow on trees?

whitecrow

I haven't witnessed this yet but it would bother me too.

I even avoid fighting "normal" animals when possible (wolves, bears, big cats).

SerafinaWaterstar

Can someone explain why ‘foes’ in *** dungeons & delves don’t count?

That is the more relevant point.

aetherix8

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

1,000 kills for the seasonal challenge in three designated areas. In dungeons/delves, mobs don't count, but in the overland, all you need to do is kill a harmless little animal with a light attack (they have 1 hp) to boost your score.
Does that seem fair to you?
I obviously refrain from this senseless hunt for squirrels, deer, or the cute little Nixads, but I'm outraged by the obscene spectacle of thousands of players mercilessly crushing everything that moves. It disgusts me.
But what was the need for that?
This game often stands out for protecting certain minorities, and I'm pleased. Why not protect the sensibilities of those who oppose the killing of innocent little animals?
What demonstration of skill or strength is firing a light attack at a hare or a heron?
I hope ZOS reconsiders, and along with the promised fix to the zone dungeons/delves, that ZOS does not continue to encourage this needless slaughter.

The moment I saw “foes” and “Wrothgar” I knew exactly what I would be doing for the next 1 hour or so. I picked a nice spot with at least 7 squirrels, some goats and rabbits, deer and those cute little echatere along with bears, mammoths, and some other creatures. I completed this challenge fairly fast. And I saw countless players passing by and deleting all those bears, mammoths and adult echatere, while I was making sure nobody notices how much critter spawns in this one spot.

I must admit that there is something disturbing in these mass killings “challenges”.
It is indeed slightly aggravating to witness so much violence and death. The massacre of those majestic mammoths was the most difficult to watch for me personally.

Now, we rush through this challenge in order to unlock the next tome page. But I would prefer these challenges to be about killing “enemies” instead of “foes”. “Enemies” exclude critter, afaik. This category only includes creatures that attack players who come too close.

AcadianPaladin

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Can someone explain why ‘foes’ in *** dungeons & delves don’t count?

That is the more relevant point.

This an unintended bug on the part of ZoS. They say the fix will be in the next incremental patch.

LootAllTheStuff

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Can someone explain why ‘foes’ in *** dungeons & delves don’t count?

That is the more relevant point.

It's a bug, due to be fixed (hopefully in the upcoming incremental). I've decided I'm waiting out this one until then, just because the insane competition for even the tiniest critter is more than I can cope with. Besides, we've still got what, 90 days?

DoofusMax

Must admit to much amusement at the hordes of players killing everything that moves in order to complete a challenge which still has about 87 days to run. (1) Pick up Spencer Rye's daily, (2) walk to quest object location (deal with lions, scorpions, crocs, and whatnot on the way), (3) do the deed, (4) walk back, (5) collect coffer and Thieves Guild points, (6) maybe repeat on another character but usually not.

Arunei

BretonMage wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

I'm going to assume this is a joke post/satire or something, but in case it isn't...I hate to say this, but it's a game. If you don't want to kill animals you don't have to, but let's not try to impose real-world morals on a video game or claim that 'killing' pixels on a screen is 'slaughter'. Also you already seem to know that mobs in Delves/Dungeons not counting is a bug, so the whole "is this fair" thing is kind of a moot point anyway.

If we feel our sensibilities stung by senseless slaughter, it's because it's natural for people with functioning empathy to feel for the suffering of others, and often even when we know the others aren't real. I mean, if games are "just games", what's the point of feeling moved by the characters of Baldur's Gate or Expedition 33? Or, for that matter, Romeo and Juliet?

Not saying I'd actually condemn the players who kill innocents in the game, but it's not pleasant to see either.

That whole "people with functioning empathy" line is a hell of a statement, because it implies people who kill non-living things in a game somehow lack it. I'm one of the most empathatic people I know, I cry super easily when others are upset or during sad scenes in games or movies. I abhor real-world violence and it gets me REALLY mad when I hear about things like animals or people being abused or killed. But there is a big difference between getting emotionally attached to characters and getting emotionally attached to Random NPC Animal #5,301.

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

"It's just a game" someone says.
Of course.
But... why cats and dogs are unkillable in the game... is it not a game for those kind of animals?
You do not find any child in the game... why???
So please, don't say things that contradict the evidence, please.

Because it IS just a game. It is fiction. It is not real. There are no real animals being harmed or killed. There is no real suffering. It is not real.

Dogs and cats aren't killable because ESO is based in the United States, where those animals are pets and NOT game or livestock animals. But all the animals you CAN kill? They are actually hunted irl (the ones that exist irl anyway) for food and other things, or are livestock animals that are raised as food or for leather, milk, and so on. Pigs, goats, squirrels, rabbits, elk, deer, etc are all animals that get hunted or raised as livestock.

What does children not being in the game have to do with anything? The answer is because they didn't feel like coding them in but that isn't some sort of gotcha point at all. They didn't add children not because of morality but because it would have been extra coding. The things you tried to bring up aren't evidence at all and contradict nothing.

Also as other people have mentioned, there are numerous recipes that call for meat of different kinds. What's the difference between someone running around killing animals to farm mats (because they also tend to drop things like Guts as someone else mentioned) and someone killing for any other reason? It's not like it's 'wasting' the animal, because again, it isn't real.

aetherix8 wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

1,000 kills for the seasonal challenge in three designated areas. In dungeons/delves, mobs don't count, but in the overland, all you need to do is kill a harmless little animal with a light attack (they have 1 hp) to boost your score.
Does that seem fair to you?
I obviously refrain from this senseless hunt for squirrels, deer, or the cute little Nixads, but I'm outraged by the obscene spectacle of thousands of players mercilessly crushing everything that moves. It disgusts me.
But what was the need for that?
This game often stands out for protecting certain minorities, and I'm pleased. Why not protect the sensibilities of those who oppose the killing of innocent little animals?
What demonstration of skill or strength is firing a light attack at a hare or a heron?
I hope ZOS reconsiders, and along with the promised fix to the zone dungeons/delves, that ZOS does not continue to encourage this needless slaughter.

The moment I saw “foes” and “Wrothgar” I knew exactly what I would be doing for the next 1 hour or so. I picked a nice spot with at least 7 squirrels, some goats and rabbits, deer and those cute little echatere along with bears, mammoths, and some other creatures. I completed this challenge fairly fast. And I saw countless players passing by and deleting all those bears, mammoths and adult echatere, while I was making sure nobody notices how much critter spawns in this one spot.

I must admit that there is something disturbing in these mass killings “challenges”.
It is indeed slightly aggravating to witness so much violence and death. The massacre of those majestic mammoths was the most difficult to watch for me personally.

Now, we rush through this challenge in order to unlock the next tome page. But I would prefer these challenges to be about killing “enemies” instead of “foes”. “Enemies” exclude critter, afaik. This category only includes creatures that attack players who come too close.

If it upset you that much why in the world would you just sit there watching people do it then? If it was disturbing and bothered you that much for non-living animals (which isn't even graphic at all, there's no blood or organs or anything), then go to another zone instead of spending all that time there.

If you don't want to kill animals for Challenges, then don't. But don't ask for the option to be taken from everyone because of something you dislike. Once again, let's not impose real-world morals onto a video game.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Can someone explain why ‘foes’ in *** dungeons & delves don’t count?

That is the more relevant point.

It's a bug currently that mobs in Delves and Dungeons aren't counting towards the Challenge, they're aware of it and it should have been added to the list of bugs by now.

valenwood_vegan

Yeah not going to get worked up over pixels in a video game that primarily revolves around *killing pixels*. There are quests that tell us to kill and outright murder people. Savage werewolfs slaughtering villagers. Vampires draining their victims of blood. Torture. Slavery. Theft. Crazed cults sucking our souls out. An *ongoing war* that we are encouraged to directly participate in.

Not to mention, the game has numerous provisioning items and furnishing items *made of* parts of critters. Some of the armor our characters wear is made of their fur.

Livestock and hunting and fishing and the like are... pretty normal things in a medieval fantasy world. If one doesn't want to kill critters, one can certainly avoid doing so.

Personally I'll continue to play the game my way (where every one of my characters has a story and different motivations and acts differently - one is a vegan bosmer, another is a sneaky hunter, another is a noble paladin who tries to do no harm, one is an evil vampire, while another is a thief - it's fantasy folks. I am actually none of these things in real life.) and try to save my moral outrage for actual issues IRL.

I will say that it's unfortunate that zos introduced this task in a bugged state and I'm looking forward to it being fixed so folks can move into some of the instanced areas and the overland slaughter can calm down a bit (but this will also happen naturally as the I MUST FINISH THIS TASK RIGHT NOW crowd starts to finish).

whitecrow

I remember killing rats in Riften once when I needed fishbait but I considered this a service to the town.

Syldras

One complaint I could understand is that a zone where basically everything is lying around dead or despawned most of the time for three months now, might not be the most immersive experience for someone who has newly gained access to this zone just now. Random animals are part of the landscape, commoner npcs contribute to town atmosphere, so if everything is already killed - it looks empty.

Malyore

Silaf wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

1,000 kills for the seasonal challenge in three designated areas. In dungeons/delves, mobs don't count, but in the overland, all you need to do is kill a harmless little animal with a light attack (they have 1 hp) to boost your score.
Does that seem fair to you?
I obviously refrain from this senseless hunt for squirrels, deer, or the cute little Nixads, but I'm outraged by the obscene spectacle of thousands of players mercilessly crushing everything that moves. It disgusts me.
But what was the need for that?
This game often stands out for protecting certain minorities, and I'm pleased. Why not protect the sensibilities of those who oppose the killing of innocent little animals?
What demonstration of skill or strength is firing a light attack at a hare or a heron?
I hope ZOS reconsiders, and along with the promised fix to the zone dungeons/delves, that ZOS does not continue to encourage this needless slaughter.

On the other hand i'm kind of disappointed by the absence of satisfactory blood splatter. I'm enjoying the penguins little squeeks and the fact they run away but the gore element leve a lot to be desired.

...

Use the macabre vintage set.

AvalonRanger

The critter massacre in the challenge zones

It's just simply boring as contents.
Give as more meaningful endeavor for spending time.

Orbital78

I found a spot in Wrothgar where "swarming harpies" respawned fairly quickly. I took a beamer there, light attacked the first down and sandbagged until 3-5 more spawned and melted them with beam. I did this mostly AFK while watching TV.

At least it was not a specific WB encounter like the Knight Commander one. The adds were not even rendering because there were ~50 people there.

LootAllTheStuff

Orbital78 wrote: »

I found a spot in Wrothgar where "swarming harpies" respawned fairly quickly. I took a beamer there, light attacked the first down and kiling sandbagged until 3-5 more spawned and melted them with beam. I did this mostly AFK while watching TV.

At least it was not a specific WB encounter like the Knight Commander one. The adds were not even rendering because there were ~50 people there.

I think I found that same spot as well. On the way up to Sorrow? There were also a bunch at the siege site which is part of the main storyline, but when I went there it was swarming with other players so good luck getting a hit in.

BretonMage

Arunei wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

I'm going to assume this is a joke post/satire or something, but in case it isn't...I hate to say this, but it's a game. If you don't want to kill animals you don't have to, but let's not try to impose real-world morals on a video game or claim that 'killing' pixels on a screen is 'slaughter'. Also you already seem to know that mobs in Delves/Dungeons not counting is a bug, so the whole "is this fair" thing is kind of a moot point anyway.

If we feel our sensibilities stung by senseless slaughter, it's because it's natural for people with functioning empathy to feel for the suffering of others, and often even when we know the others aren't real. I mean, if games are "just games", what's the point of feeling moved by the characters of Baldur's Gate or Expedition 33? Or, for that matter, Romeo and Juliet?

Not saying I'd actually condemn the players who kill innocents in the game, but it's not pleasant to see either.

That whole "people with functioning empathy" line is a hell of a statement, because it implies people who kill non-living things in a game somehow lack it. I'm one of the most empathatic people I know, I cry super easily when others are upset or during sad scenes in games or movies. I abhor real-world violence and it gets me REALLY mad when I hear about things like animals or people being abused or killed. But there is a big difference between getting emotionally attached to characters and getting emotionally attached to Random NPC Animal #5,301.

I'm not going to dictate how you play your game, and honestly, if I want to feel emotions like pity or compassion for those in a fictional fantasy universe created to seem life-like, then I think I have that freedom to do so. That's one of the great things about games, you have a choice to relate to it in the way you want. So just as you can choose to treat these animals as mere pixels, so too can I choose to see Tamriel as a living, breathing world.

SkaiFaith

BretonMage wrote: »

If we feel our sensibilities stung by senseless slaughter, it's because it's natural for people with functioning empathy to feel for the suffering of others, and often even when we know the others aren't real.

"Functioning empathy" - this is either coming from a very emotionally loaded position or from a dangerous moral high ground.
Empathy can absolutely present itself in an unhealthy, exaggerated measure.
What you described and the weight with which you are taking it indicates you may be on the far side where considering making a step back wouldn't hurt, infact it would be very much advised.
Keep control of your empathy, and set limits: fighting to change something legit for others because you are suffering for dead pixels should be one, unless those are on your newly purchased expensive TV.

Glad Arunei has already argued for my same viewpoint so I don't need to add more.

EDIT: btw, I completed the challenge in the first hour - my lovely chub loons