Werewolf Update From The Combat Refresh Team

Apollosipod

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Apollosipod wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

Why does that werewolf look like it is from Cyberpunk? Is there a version without the glowing markings?

The glowing markings depend on the morph:
The unmorphed version has no markings


Berserker is the red eyes and claw marks


and Pack Leader has a green Hircine logo on the chest


There are also the three base colors (black, white, and ashen) which currently work as they do normally where the morph dictates the fur color. However, the Stonefalls Dynamic encounter drops fragments (1, 5, 10 for black, ashen, white) that you can consume to unlock the colors as skill styles and then you get whichever color you choose.

The pics above are all with the Ashen style. Here are the other two:

I should have asked before .y previous post, but do the skill styles hide the glow from the morphs when you equip them?

No. You can see in those images that the morphs are all shown with the Ashen style equipped.

Ostensibly the glow is to highlight to others which morph someone is using since the color no longer is the determinant signal anymore. Though I don’t know how relevant it is in PvP to know that, especially since one will have pets and the other won’t.

At least for screenshots and simple overland, the glow can be turned off by unmorphing the skill to base level.

Thanks for the response! I can't help but be irritated by the notion of having to unmorph the skill to have the non-glowey effects, though you are correct. I am very much in the camp that the glow shouldn't be necessary for either PVP or PVE since one morph has pet wolves and the other doesn't. Seems like a super unasked for and unnecessary addition to the new model.

tomofhyrule

Apollosipod wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Apollosipod wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

Why does that werewolf look like it is from Cyberpunk? Is there a version without the glowing markings?

The glowing markings depend on the morph:
The unmorphed version has no markings


Berserker is the red eyes and claw marks


and Pack Leader has a green Hircine logo on the chest


There are also the three base colors (black, white, and ashen) which currently work as they do normally where the morph dictates the fur color. However, the Stonefalls Dynamic encounter drops fragments (1, 5, 10 for black, ashen, white) that you can consume to unlock the colors as skill styles and then you get whichever color you choose.

The pics above are all with the Ashen style. Here are the other two:

I should have asked before .y previous post, but do the skill styles hide the glow from the morphs when you equip them?

No. You can see in those images that the morphs are all shown with the Ashen style equipped.

Ostensibly the glow is to highlight to others which morph someone is using since the color no longer is the determinant signal anymore. Though I don’t know how relevant it is in PvP to know that, especially since one will have pets and the other won’t.

At least for screenshots and simple overland, the glow can be turned off by unmorphing the skill to base level.

Thanks for the response! I can't help but be irritated by the notion of having to unmorph the skill to have the non-glowey effects, though you are correct. I am very much in the camp that the glow shouldn't be necessary for either PVP or PVE since one morph has pet wolves and the other doesn't. Seems like a super unasked for and unnecessary addition to the new model.

Yeah, I’m kinda used to unmorphed for RP since my werewolf was supposed to be brown, and the beigey-grey-not-really from the unmorphed was always the color that matched him best.

Then again, he’s supposed to be a werebear in the first place, so he always just felt all kinds of wrong.
(Hey ZOS, I have a blank check with your name on it for a brown werebear variation…)

tohopka_eso

I don't mind the effect that much. Even though I don't PvP I can understand why some can be irritated by it though.

For me, I can RP it off as being marked by Hircine or something like that.

Faltasë

Ruhlf wrote: »

Oof. The glows are not my favorite. They look confusing and kinda make no sense for a werewolf.

“I’m a big scary thing that can pounce out of the shadows and get you - but hold up - let me just glow like goon from the 1990s Batman and Robin.”

This was a surprise I think no one asked for ):

If we can get rid of the glow tattoos - and shrink the gremlin ears - I’d be happier. Those ears… yeesh.

Yeah these glowing effects automatically make using the werewolf a no go for me. These are so ugly.

Ruhlf

Faltasë wrote: »

Ruhlf wrote: »

Oof. The glows are not my favorite. They look confusing and kinda make no sense for a werewolf.

“I’m a big scary thing that can pounce out of the shadows and get you - but hold up - let me just glow like goon from the 1990s Batman and Robin.”

This was a surprise I think no one asked for ):

If we can get rid of the glow tattoos - and shrink the gremlin ears - I’d be happier. Those ears… yeesh.

Yeah these glowing effects automatically make using the werewolf a no go for me. These are so ugly.

Indeed. Didn’t ask for them. Don't want them. And don’t care for them.

The effects are basically telling me “don’t use the new features the Devs have added.” And that’s a crazy thing to do for the Dev’s rollout of their new werewolf revamps.

It makes me not want to explore the morphs at all.

Why make yet another cosmetic change that is going to (again) affect how players view their character’s appearance? Especially after so many players were (and still are) unhappy with the new werewolf model?

Edit:
Imagine the upset if this was built into other player character models? You want a certain morph, then your elf gets green tattoos all over their face.

Nefaras

Is there a difference between male and female?

coop500

Nefaras wrote: »

Is there a difference between male and female?

Extremely minor, but yes.

The core (very faint) differences appear to be the following:

Shorter Snout
Longer Tail
Slimmer Stomach
Slightly more fur/hair around the neck.

Celas_Dranacea

Hey ZOS team I just want to provide my first look raw feedback on the revised werewolf after testing on PTS some yesterday and today.

First - the refresh feels like a labor of love. You guys put a lot of thought and care into this. THANK YOU. I believe in the team working on this.

The pictures you posted on Friday and previously did not do justice to the werewolf model. The model look so much better than I perceived it to be from the advance pictures.

The tattoos are growing on me after the initial shock. Unexpected really, but I can go with this - I see where you’re going and see the opportunity for even more customization options … nice! Naturally I’ve heard from folks that they would like the option to remove the tats or tone them down. Different skill styles look nice overall!

White werewolf - needs some small “highlights” or rather darkening of snout and some other edges IMO - idk it’s necessary for it to look like albino wolf, it’s absolutely snow white - should still look like normal wolf man guy with maybe darker hair around claws, feet, snout, maybe back

Female model looks good not overblown, tasteful!

THE WEREWOLF STEALTH DETECTION - I now believe in justice - we should have always detected people. Hircine is great! THANK YOU. I mean I still think we should be able to stealth - werewolves are apex predators and all, but I’m cool with this for now

Animations look good overall! Jump is good! It’s probably too much to ask but pie in the sky ask would be to alternate arms when blocking and bashing, but I understand if that’s not feasible. Do you guys have the option to add various animations for block and bash that we cycle through?

Combat:
- I like a lot of where you are going. Lots of good with all the morphs and passives. There seems to be a chunk of wonky stuff about how stats convert when going into ww form, couple times where abilities do not trigger properly etc. but we have some weeks to test and give specific
- The bite ability is cool
- New claws animation is cool
- feel wise, something feels less responsive. Maybe just years of hardwiring to the old animations - will give it a fair shot before passing judgement.
- explain why we need aoe cap on claws? >:( do not like!
- healing feels like a nerf so far
- Still feeling out ulti and fury gen - will see with some more testing
- Can you explain any changes to speed? Only speed increase is on rampage? Perhaps it feels that we are not moving as fast just on account of being slightly bigger.

I see you guys working on this - thanks for the great effort. There will be some areas for concern that are highlighted but first I want to appreciate you guys for the honest care and work!

Vaqual

The new model is very very cool. Good job!

Lycanthrope1997

Hey can we adjust old sets like salvation/savior's hide and Shapeshifter's chain for werewolves? I saw Hide of The Werewolf get adjusted etc but nothing for those other items.

CatalinaWineMixer2

I was never big into the werewolf over the years. This might actually change that. It does have a place in the hearts of many players. It is a very special class and I am excited to see it in action.

Lycanthrope1997 wrote: »

Hey can we adjust old sets like salvation/savior's hide and Shapeshifter's chain for werewolves? I saw Hide of The Werewolf get adjusted etc but nothing for those other items.

This should be considered. There are not a lot of werewolf utility sets to begin with. Either way, we will all be howling at the moon soon enough.

huskandhunger

I love the new model and abilities they are super fun and enjoyable to play especially with all the new sound effects and animations

For Berserker Form it has felt challenging to stay in form in combat when there is not a way to use devour. Maybe a way to allow for ultimate generation or a cost reduction or a greater length of time in form from the 10 initial seconds to 30 seconds on initial and then, 50 depleting thereafter every 10 seconds may help.

Light attacks and heavy attacks "feel" slower than live and if there was a way to weave them better it could be cool, but I love their sound effects and slow wind up makes it seem momentous.

Thank you so much to all the teams at ZoS and people who worked on this werewolf refresh, it is overall wonderful and very enjoyable to play. 🐺💕

Ruhlf

@ZOS_Erin

Having had a chance to see the new model out of T-Pose, I think there’s still work to be done. But it’s getting there! Thanks for taking in all the feedback so far.

-Overall model changes - Less Skinny. Yes. The overall build is still too frail and gangly looking. When the new model was scaled up and placed next to the old model - it looked better because it looked “bigger” than the old model. But on its own, it’s too skinny looking. It looks almost emaciated. The arms need more bulk especially.

-Those ears. More wolf-like ears please. The ears really continue to add to the “rat/bat” look. It would be much appreciated if we could get some wolf-ears on our werewolves.

-Head Size. Slightly larger? The head seems small… And this does make the body feel larger - but I think a 10% increase would make the werewolf models feel a little more powerful.

-The hind legs are a bit too long. They look more like bird legs and less like wolf legs. The length of the hind legs adds to the overall gangly proportions - like a baby bird - and not very imposing or werewolf-y.

-The hair. I’m split on the Mohawk. I get what the Devs were trying to do - but the limitations of the game make the mane/mohawk stand out - drawing attention away from the rest of the design. The hair shouldn’t be a focal point - the werewolf should. I’d shorten the height of the mane. Its distribution down the body is fine.

-Could we please toggle/remove the Glowing Tattoos? If they’re necessary for PVP - then please make them only active in PVP (or simply toggle on/off).

-I’m still seeing a lot of wrinkled skin and leathery skin textures. Even with the (thank you) skin matching done with the fur, the leathery (almost lizard) skin remaines. It would be cool if we could add more fur texture (not cards, just texture) - especially around the neck and face.

Thanks! My werewolf is my favorite guy to play in ESO, so I feel pretty passionate about how he looks. I didn’t really have much of an issue with him before, even with the old model - but I appreciate the work on the new werewolf. (But I’m still not sold on this new model.)

Fenrir_Legacy

So, I finally got the chance to play on pts today. Over all I like alot of whats been done for werewolf. I think werewolf is in a position to do well in pve content again which has been a long time coming.

Sustain is quite easy and I do not lose form in combat or out of it and I dont have to spend time monitoring how much time I have left to stay in form.

Pvp wise I do not see werewolf in its current state being competitive. The biggest damage ability we have is claws of fury and its channeled. Which means any bash, fear, charm ect will interrupt it. Yes I can get the damage above 200k over 4.7 seconds but thats meaningless if someone can just spam bash and constantly interrupt it. The other abilities damage are sub par for pvp. I can hit 12k health recovery and do other things and stack loads of heals but other than being a parse dummy I dont see any real meaningful damage that will be competitive with average pvp players let alone meta pvp players.

The appearance is fine, I dont care for the glowing tattoos but you have gave us other options for fur and maybe we will get more in the future so that levels that out I think. Dire wolf damage is minimal and getting their snare back would be nice.

I also noticed our disease damage is gone so no more defile on enemy players which is kind of a bummer.

So in summary, great for pve content but no so good for pvp.

dmel25

Question for those that are testing it, does the new werewolf update make them viable tanks? Or no?

coop500

dmel25 wrote: »

Question for those that are testing it, does the new werewolf update make them viable tanks? Or no?

Depends on what you mean by 'viable'
They can apply Major Breach, they have a taunt, and can be pretty durable while providing Major Courage to the group. But they're missing a pull and stuff like that. Or a ranged taunt.

For dungeons and groups that already agreed to try it, it's probably fine, but for trial groups that expect a 'real' tank with all the bells and whistles, probably not.

method__01

awfully big for my taste ,also i dont understand why dev spending so much time in a low priority item
when there are game real probs (class UNBALANCE for start)

Apollosipod

method__01 wrote: »

awfully big for my taste ,also i dont understand why dev spending so much time in a low priority item
when there are game real probs (class UNBALANCE for start)

Low priority item for you.

Besides, people who use Werewolf to play are essentially a class so updating and rebalancing the Werewolf does impact class balance

method__01

Apollosipod wrote: »

Low priority item for you.

Besides, people who use Werewolf to play are essentially a class so updating and rebalancing the Werewolf does impact class balance
[/quote]

yes,of course its for me ,not the Queen of Sheba or King of whatever

Fenrir_Legacy

dmel25 wrote: »

Question for those that are testing it, does the new werewolf update make them viable tanks? Or no?

It will be in the same place it was before. With some extra self heals if you take certain morphs.

huskandhunger

method__01 wrote: »

awfully big for my taste ,also i dont understand why dev spending so much time in a low priority item
when there are game real probs (class UNBALANCE for start)

I like being big and burly thanks.

dark_hunterxmg

I do hope these changes will make the Werewolf feel less clunky. I hope that the speed buff starts working as well.
There is still some work to do on the way werewolf gets it's heals. The burst heal on its own is not great. Only ~66% of what it is on live. The other healing sources will be situational. Both assume that you actually hit a target, and one has to be spammed constantly if you're going to stay alive.

dmel25

Fenrir_Legacy wrote: »

dmel25 wrote: »

Question for those that are testing it, does the new werewolf update make them viable tanks? Or no?

It will be in the same place it was before. With some extra self heals if you take certain morphs.

Good to know. I currently run a Sorcerer Tank werewolf build and it works really well as far as me being tanky and what not. The only issue is the taunt factor. It is hard to taunt in werewolf form because we don't have a range taunt and our only taunt is a heavy attack which takes awhile.

Fenrir_Legacy

dmel25 wrote: »

Fenrir_Legacy wrote: »

dmel25 wrote: »

Question for those that are testing it, does the new werewolf update make them viable tanks? Or no?

It will be in the same place it was before. With some extra self heals if you take certain morphs.

Good to know. I currently run a Sorcerer Tank werewolf build and it works really well as far as me being tanky and what not. The only issue is the taunt factor. It is hard to taunt in werewolf form because we don't have a range taunt and our only taunt is a heavy attack which takes awhile.

So the taunt has been moved to gnashing which is spamable but has a stam cost. Still lacking a ranged taunt however.

keto3000

ZOS_Erin wrote: »

Greetings! The Combat Refresh team would like to give a quick update on what to expect for the Werewolf refresh coming to the PTS next week. We’ve been hard at work making sure it’s up to snuff and we’re very excited to let you sink your teeth into all the new stuff that’s been updated! To recap, here is what to expect with the Werewolf refresh that we’ve already brought up through previous developer streams and reveals:

• Two new Werewolf models, one male and one female. Female characters will automatically use the new female model.
• New animations, visual effects, and sound effects for almost every Werewolf action including but not limited to:
  • Locomotion (movement, jumping, etc)
  • Core combat mechanics (Block, Roll Dodge, etc)
  • Abilities
• A new ability tied to your Ultimate to cast while in Werewolf form, which lets you unleash the beast for a duration and grants a handful of stark power bonuses
• A completely overhauled way to manage and sustain Werewolf form, now using Ultimate to both activate and sustain the form. Ultimate is now enabled and heavily awarded through certain Werewolf actions and overall you will find it significantly easier to maintain Werewolf form in most cases.
• And two new mechanics we’ve added, named “Prowl” and “Slaughter” - which we’ll touch loosely on, but we want you to go on the hunt and sniff them out yourself!
  • Slaughter is a synergy-based ability, operating similarly to things like Blade of Woe or Vampire’s Feed
  • Prowl is a mechanic override for Crouch, which is designed to help utilize Slaughter more regularly, as well as a tool to help you hunt those who would prefer to remain hidden. Your nose knows! While this is not ‘true’ Crouch or Stealth, we hope that Werewolves appreciate the chance to be a bit more sneaky.

When we first showed off the updated model for the Werewolf, we saw a lot of positive feedback with some reservations that largely boiled down to three core criticisms: the size and bulk of the model, the mangy appearance of the model, and the methods of sustaining Werewolf form. Based on that feedback, we’ve made some notable adjustments to try and improve the Werewolf refresh. Some of the most noteworthy adjustments are:

• Increased the size of the model by roughly 20%, making it substantially larger. This will ensure that you loom over normal player characters and humanoid enemies.
• Adjusted and added more fur to the model based on feedback that noted how the previous iteration felt like it was mottled and bare.
  • There is more fur coverage overall along the back, shoulders, and forehead.
  • The tail is now bigger, floofier, and blends better into the fur on the Werewolf’s back.
  • The fur along the spine now covers more area, helping to add some extra size and aura.
  • There are performance constraints that we had to work within in regards to adding more fur to the model. While we know that some of you really wanted to see a model completely covered in fur, we cannot match the fur coverage from the Werewolf’s cinematic design due to run-time limitations.
• The color of the skin now more closely matches the color of the fur and the fur now blends more seamlessly into the remaining areas where there is exposed skin.
• While we didn’t go into all the details of sustaining Werewolf form in any of our reveals, we did see a lot of discussion around the cost out of combat. After pawing with the idea for a while, we’ve made the cost of sustaining Werewolf out of combat a nonfactor (it is now completely free instead of being reduced by 75%).
  • The cost was originally part of an intentional gameplay design that tried to enforce the need to constantly be on the hunt. Hircine will not be entertained unless the chase continues, after all. This pressure helped lean into the fantasy that Werewolves are fast, aggressive creatures that need combat to maintain their form – but ultimately the reality of gameplay clashed with this, creating more experiences of frustration than highlighting the positive sensations we wanted.

Lastly, on the note of another larger topic we’ve seen for Werewolves, crouch and stealth. This is something we’re not adding to the Werewolf in the traditional sense, as there’s a lot more than meets the eye with getting those systems to function and be supported between content interaction, blending every unique animation (and having those animations be loaded in Cyrodiil, which cuts into how many unique animations we can make for other classes), and a handful of other things. It’s also something that we’re not keen on enabling for balance or identity’s sake – we want to keep Werewolves direct, imposing, and terrifying as they rip apart their foes – which means we need to keep messaging clear and readable for PvP while focusing on the big and loud. Prowl is our compromise to this difference of desire and intent, as it lets you get some sneak-adjacent benefits by making you harder to detect by monsters, which was mainly done to ensure you can actively use the new Slaughter synergy.

That about wraps up the coverage of what we’ve directly changed based on your feedback we heard between our reveal for the Werewolf and what’s coming in PTS 1. There’s still plenty more to discover that we haven’t discussed, but we want to make sure we leave some meat on the bone for you when PTS rolls around. As always, we’ll continue to monitor your feedback as you get to experience it firsthandpaw throughout the PTS and launch. Thank you as always for your time, passion, and support in making Elder Scrolls together. See you in Tamriel!

Consider letting us design our own WW styles in the character screen when we become WW!!! HOWLLLLL

Kory

Here's a great video on the changes with comparison to the old version, shout out to this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-9Xwcphj7g

Nefaras

@ZOS_Erin

• Once again asking for clear male and female traits when transformed. Males should be more bulky -> it just makes sense.
• Option to remove the markings.
• Eye color customization would be a big plus.
• Fur customization as well. While I enjoy that the two perks change the design fundamentally, it can be limiting from an RP perspective.

Overall, the quality is a big improvement, and I’m a fan of this love letter to werewolves. I’d love to see something similar for vampires as well. I think after moving away from the game for 2 years. I’ll resubscribe for this update. I still have some expansions to catch up on. Great job overall.

coop500

Nefaras wrote: »

@ZOS_Erin

• Once again asking for clear male and female traits when transformed. Males should be more bulky -> it just makes sense.
• Option to remove the markings.
• Eye color customization would be a big plus.
• Fur customization as well. While I enjoy that the two perks change the design fundamentally, it can be limiting from an RP perspective.

Overall, the quality is a big improvement, and I’m a fan of this love letter to werewolves. I’d love to see something similar for vampires as well. I think after moving away from the game for 2 years. I’ll resubscribe for this update. I still have some expansions to catch up on. Great job overall.

FYI half of this is already applied in a way.

The markings now only show when your Rage ultimate is ready, and for it's duration.

We can freely choose between 3 colors as skill styles, and there's a hidden 4th color as well.
Females actually are slimmer than males, it's just very subtle. I agree that the female model could look more feminine, but I don't think we'll be seeing that.