Raising The Level Cap?

Decimus

Has anyone ever wondered why the level cap is at 50, but the gear cap (and the threshold of being able to do end-game content effectively) is at CP160?

Obviously there are the leftover material tiers from the old Veteran Rank system, but wouldn't it be a lot more clear for new players in particular to increase the level cap to somewhere between 60-80 and then have these CP10-140 tiers be spaced in between those levels?

This solves a few issues:

1. Leveling is a lot more clear for new players. Hit max level = you can focus on chasing gear and the "end game".
2. Less people operating at a severe disadvantage in max level BGs/dungeons etc, wondering why their characters feel so weak despite being "max level".

I believe this would be a very good QOL change leading to less confusion amongst new players.


For players currently above CP160: simply convert the level to the new cap, no new grind or crafting gear etc required.

Nemesis7884

Cp are levels there is no difference...you would have to change so much stuff in game, so much dev time wasted that can be used differently, with so many potential bugs resulting....for something most mmo players are familiar with and if not can read up in 5 minutes....

Decimus

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Cp are levels there is no difference

There is for new players who have no idea what Champion Points are and how reaching the "max level" isn't actually reaching the max level like in other MMOs. It's not cohesive at all, nor is there any reason for it to work the way it does right now when you think about it.

You can still have champion points, but the gear cap shouldn't be tied to them.

Taggund

CP10-160 is pointless, and I just leveled to 160 on Alik'r dolmens once I realized the gear I was getting at those CP levels was useless. However, the solution is not to raise the level cap, but just make CP160 automatic at level 50 (congrats on level 50, here is your CP reward).

If they were to increase level cap, I would most likely just leave the game (already on the edge for so many other reasons, just waiting to reach the tipping point).

rothan117

I had never encountered an alternate advancement system before, none of the other MMOs I have played extensively used such a system. But it took me ten minutes or less to understand the system and I like it. I much prefer it to the constant level cap increases and gear becoming worthless with every cap increase.

Decimus

Taggund wrote: »

CP10-160 is pointless, and I just leveled to 160 on Alik'r dolmens once I realized the gear I was getting at those CP levels was useless. However, the solution is not to raise the level cap, but just make CP160 automatic at level 50 (congrats on level 50, here is your CP reward).

If they were to increase level cap, I would most likely just leave the game (already on the edge for so many other reasons, just waiting to reach the tipping point).

Just to be clear: not saying that anyone should have to grind levels again... the CP10-160 could be automatically converted into the new cap for those who are at or above CP160.*

The reason automatically giving people CP160 is problematic is because what is the purpose of existing materials and gear tiers between CP10-140 then? Retroactively removing all the materials etc for those tiers would cause a lot of issues I'd imagine, not to mention confusion for people somehow coming across these materials.


*Edited the original post to mention this.

Nemesis7884

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Cp are levels there is no difference

There is for new players who have no idea what Champion Points are and how reaching the "max level" isn't actually reaching the max level like in other MMOs. It's not cohesive at all, nor is there any reason for it to work the way it does right now when you think about it.

You can still have champion points, but the gear cap shouldn't be tied to them.

How long will it take to change the system vs how long does it take to read up on it...you want to spend months of dev time for something you can get informed about in 5m...
Imo devs should spend 90% of time on new content

wolfie1.0.

Decimus wrote: »

Taggund wrote: »

CP10-160 is pointless, and I just leveled to 160 on Alik'r dolmens once I realized the gear I was getting at those CP levels was useless. However, the solution is not to raise the level cap, but just make CP160 automatic at level 50 (congrats on level 50, here is your CP reward).

If they were to increase level cap, I would most likely just leave the game (already on the edge for so many other reasons, just waiting to reach the tipping point).

Just to be clear: not saying that anyone should have to grind levels again... the CP10-160 could be automatically converted into the new cap for those who are at or above CP160.*

The reason automatically giving people CP160 is problematic is because what is the purpose of existing materials and gear tiers between CP10-140 then? Retroactively removing all the materials etc for those tiers would cause a lot of issues I'd imagine, not to mention confusion for people somehow coming across these materials.


*Edited the original post to mention this.

Its actually very much easier programming wise to consolidate the lower tier CP mats into a single tier than it would be to start messing with the leveling system as a whole.

Mostly because its less of a hassle, and they have done it before with soul gems and repair kits.

As to increasing levels, no leave it at 50. Going from cp 10 to 160 doesn't take all that long as is and once its done you never have to do it again. On top of that, any new character you create benefits directly from cp as it can be applied immediately.

Edit: also due to the nature of cp, cp 10 - 140 mats are actually pretty rare in comparison to the rest of the mats in game. There are less of them than even level 40 mats because of how cp really works and how they interact with the crafting skill trees. Its easier to nuke those mats and convert them to new ones than anything else.

Decimus

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Cp are levels there is no difference

There is for new players who have no idea what Champion Points are and how reaching the "max level" isn't actually reaching the max level like in other MMOs. It's not cohesive at all, nor is there any reason for it to work the way it does right now when you think about it.

You can still have champion points, but the gear cap shouldn't be tied to them.

How long will it take to change the system vs how long does it take to read up on it...you want to spend months of dev time for something you can get informed about in 5m...
Imo devs should spend 90% of time on new content

Yeah of course if it's too much work other stuff should be prioritized, but thought I'd bring this up since I haven't seen too much talk about this kinda outdated, leftover part of ESO's old systems.


People can get informed about the CP160 gear cap very quickly, but evidently not everyone does since very often you run into people below CP160 in battlegrounds and dungeons, which is not really ideal for any party involved.

I've even watched people brand new to ESO stream the game, be super excited to try out a battleground at max level and queueing right after hitting level cap... not wanting to backseat too much, I can only shake my head and think "oh no..."


Anyway, if it's not too much work and doesn't take away from working on other systems I'd love to see this system made better.

MSattrtand

I think that under the hood, the game considers lvl 50 CP 160 characters as lvl 66 characters, because of the pre-One-Tamriel implementation of the system (like Resistances/Crit Resistances are still tied to number 66). If this is the case, it shouldn't be too hard to raise the level cap to 66 (not the prettiest number, but better than lvl 50 CP 160) by converting the first 160 CPs into levels, like Veteran Points were previously converted to CPs.

Palumtra

If you ask me there is no point in raising level caps and gear caps in a horizontal progression game, especially since champion points are account wide so once you hit 160 all of your alts can wear cp160 gear after the leveling.

If my memory serves xp is boosted till cp 160 anyway so its fairly easy to reach too.

tsaescishoeshiner

If anything they should lower it to level 50 CP 10 instead of CP 160. Then you can start farming your forever gear at CP 10, and not be confused or significantly underpowered in battegrounds or veteran dungeons.

But that would require either level-squishing crafted gear or eliminating whole crafting tiers, which is a design and potentially technical issue. (Not impossible, just a lot to deal with.)

Balibe

Think Lvl 50 and CP160 are separate for a reason.

Keep in mind you only need to level to CP160 after lvl50 on your first character. All following characters only need to level to 50, then automatically advanced to the account CP level.

heimdall14_9

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Cp are levels there is no difference

There is for new players who have no idea what Champion Points are and how reaching the "max level" isn't actually reaching the max level like in other MMOs. It's not cohesive at all, nor is there any reason for it to work the way it does right now when you think about it.

You can still have champion points, but the gear cap shouldn't be tied to them.

How long will it take to change the system vs how long does it take to read up on it...you want to spend months of dev time for something you can get informed about in 5m...
Imo devs should spend 90% of time on new content

Yeah of course if it's too much work other stuff should be prioritized, but thought I'd bring this up since I haven't seen too much talk about this kinda outdated, leftover part of ESO's old systems.


People can get informed about the CP160 gear cap very quickly, but evidently not everyone does since very often you run into people below CP160 in battlegrounds and dungeons, which is not really ideal for any party involved.

I've even watched people brand new to ESO stream the game, be super excited to try out a battleground at max level and queueing right after hitting level cap... not wanting to backseat too much, I can only shake my head and think "oh no..."


Anyway, if it's not too much work and doesn't take away from working on other systems I'd love to see this system made better.

the funny thing here is CP is turned off in BGs so why would it matter you cp 1 or 3600 , i like using my sub accounts in BGs because of this hell my last account ran BGs top of the leaderboards from cp 4-cp306 iit has all BGs awards and achievements done had great fun doing it too

Decimus

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Cp are levels there is no difference

There is for new players who have no idea what Champion Points are and how reaching the "max level" isn't actually reaching the max level like in other MMOs. It's not cohesive at all, nor is there any reason for it to work the way it does right now when you think about it.

You can still have champion points, but the gear cap shouldn't be tied to them.

How long will it take to change the system vs how long does it take to read up on it...you want to spend months of dev time for something you can get informed about in 5m...
Imo devs should spend 90% of time on new content

Yeah of course if it's too much work other stuff should be prioritized, but thought I'd bring this up since I haven't seen too much talk about this kinda outdated, leftover part of ESO's old systems.


People can get informed about the CP160 gear cap very quickly, but evidently not everyone does since very often you run into people below CP160 in battlegrounds and dungeons, which is not really ideal for any party involved.

I've even watched people brand new to ESO stream the game, be super excited to try out a battleground at max level and queueing right after hitting level cap... not wanting to backseat too much, I can only shake my head and think "oh no..."


Anyway, if it's not too much work and doesn't take away from working on other systems I'd love to see this system made better.

the funny thing here is CP is turned off in BGs so why would it matter you cp 1 or 3600 , i like using my sub accounts in BGs because of this hell my last account ran BGs top of the leaderboards from cp 4-cp306 iit has all BGs awards and achievements done had great fun doing it too

That's kinda where things stop only being confusing for new players, but also start affecting the matchmaking balance in game.

It shouldn't matter in BGs whether you're CP1 or CP3600, but as it happens you're missing out on a lot of power if you're not at the gear cap (CP160) - yet you're still able to queue into battlegrounds and dungeons at this point, which is by all intents and purposes still "leveling" period, not "end game" as you'd think coming from most other games.

This I would like to see solved with a more coherent leveling process.

Tandor

Taggund wrote: »

CP10-160 is pointless, and I just leveled to 160 on Alik'r dolmens once I realized the gear I was getting at those CP levels was useless. However, the solution is not to raise the level cap, but just make CP160 automatic at level 50 (congrats on level 50, here is your CP reward).

If they were to increase level cap, I would most likely just leave the game (already on the edge for so many other reasons, just waiting to reach the tipping point).

And I would leave if they made it CP160 automatically at level 50. I don't play for endgame, I play for character development/levelling, and your idea would take out a big chunk of that both in adventuring and crafting.

Radiate77

Raising the level cap is the ultimate reset lever.
*use in case of emergency*

I don’t think we are there yet.

heimdall14_9

Decimus wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Cp are levels there is no difference

There is for new players who have no idea what Champion Points are and how reaching the "max level" isn't actually reaching the max level like in other MMOs. It's not cohesive at all, nor is there any reason for it to work the way it does right now when you think about it.

You can still have champion points, but the gear cap shouldn't be tied to them.

How long will it take to change the system vs how long does it take to read up on it...you want to spend months of dev time for something you can get informed about in 5m...
Imo devs should spend 90% of time on new content

Yeah of course if it's too much work other stuff should be prioritized, but thought I'd bring this up since I haven't seen too much talk about this kinda outdated, leftover part of ESO's old systems.


People can get informed about the CP160 gear cap very quickly, but evidently not everyone does since very often you run into people below CP160 in battlegrounds and dungeons, which is not really ideal for any party involved.

I've even watched people brand new to ESO stream the game, be super excited to try out a battleground at max level and queueing right after hitting level cap... not wanting to backseat too much, I can only shake my head and think "oh no..."


Anyway, if it's not too much work and doesn't take away from working on other systems I'd love to see this system made better.

the funny thing here is CP is turned off in BGs so why would it matter you cp 1 or 3600 , i like using my sub accounts in BGs because of this hell my last account ran BGs top of the leaderboards from cp 4-cp306 iit has all BGs awards and achievements done had great fun doing it too

That's kinda where things stop only being confusing for new players, but also start affecting the matchmaking balance in game.

It shouldn't matter in BGs whether you're CP1 or CP3600, but as it happens you're missing out on a lot of power if you're not at the gear cap (CP160) - yet you're still able to queue into battlegrounds and dungeons at this point, which is by all intents and purposes still "leveling" period, not "end game" as you'd think coming from most other games.

This I would like to see solved with a more coherent leveling process.

you know before they done the CP 2.0 change players was saying it took years to get to 810cp and fell needed in content , so i started an NEW pc account where i went and got VSS , VMOL, VCR+2 all done before cp 200 and made cp 810 in 4 months of playing , and CP doesnt = knowledge ive been in groups where 2k cp players dont know what they arte doing , and even the combat lead for the game didnt know to HA to get resources back sop again knowledge f the player and CP time played or even making the game gives you that lol

Decimus

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Cp are levels there is no difference

There is for new players who have no idea what Champion Points are and how reaching the "max level" isn't actually reaching the max level like in other MMOs. It's not cohesive at all, nor is there any reason for it to work the way it does right now when you think about it.

You can still have champion points, but the gear cap shouldn't be tied to them.

How long will it take to change the system vs how long does it take to read up on it...you want to spend months of dev time for something you can get informed about in 5m...
Imo devs should spend 90% of time on new content

Yeah of course if it's too much work other stuff should be prioritized, but thought I'd bring this up since I haven't seen too much talk about this kinda outdated, leftover part of ESO's old systems.


People can get informed about the CP160 gear cap very quickly, but evidently not everyone does since very often you run into people below CP160 in battlegrounds and dungeons, which is not really ideal for any party involved.

I've even watched people brand new to ESO stream the game, be super excited to try out a battleground at max level and queueing right after hitting level cap... not wanting to backseat too much, I can only shake my head and think "oh no..."


Anyway, if it's not too much work and doesn't take away from working on other systems I'd love to see this system made better.

the funny thing here is CP is turned off in BGs so why would it matter you cp 1 or 3600 , i like using my sub accounts in BGs because of this hell my last account ran BGs top of the leaderboards from cp 4-cp306 iit has all BGs awards and achievements done had great fun doing it too

That's kinda where things stop only being confusing for new players, but also start affecting the matchmaking balance in game.

It shouldn't matter in BGs whether you're CP1 or CP3600, but as it happens you're missing out on a lot of power if you're not at the gear cap (CP160) - yet you're still able to queue into battlegrounds and dungeons at this point, which is by all intents and purposes still "leveling" period, not "end game" as you'd think coming from most other games.

This I would like to see solved with a more coherent leveling process.

you know before they done the CP 2.0 change players was saying it took years to get to 810cp and fell needed in content , so i started an NEW pc account where i went and got VSS , VMOL, VCR+2 all done before cp 200 and made cp 810 in 4 months of playing , and CP doesnt = knowledge ive been in groups where 2k cp players dont know what they arte doing , and even the combat lead for the game didnt know to HA to get resources back sop again knowledge f the player and CP time played or even making the game gives you that lol

No you're right, experience doesn't equal knowledge... but knowledge also dictates that you should get to CP160 to get max level gear and not do BGs/harder PvE content while being severely gimped stats wise because that usually won't end too well.

A good player can play without gear even and do alright in BGs etc, but that's not what you get most of the time when you see someone below CP160 - most of the time it's just someone who queued low level BGs while leveling, probably had fun doing so and thought they could continue doing that after reaching "max level"... without realizing that there is now a gear cap they suddenly need to reach as well in the champion system. The game does nothing to really communicate this to new players and it's just weird conceptually.


But yeah, as several posters mentioned it's not something that's super super important to fix... but it'd be a nice QOL change to have the leveling be a bit more streamlined, seeing that the developers have been focusing on a lot of QOL changes lately.

heimdall14_9

Decimus wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Cp are levels there is no difference

There is for new players who have no idea what Champion Points are and how reaching the "max level" isn't actually reaching the max level like in other MMOs. It's not cohesive at all, nor is there any reason for it to work the way it does right now when you think about it.

You can still have champion points, but the gear cap shouldn't be tied to them.

How long will it take to change the system vs how long does it take to read up on it...you want to spend months of dev time for something you can get informed about in 5m...
Imo devs should spend 90% of time on new content

Yeah of course if it's too much work other stuff should be prioritized, but thought I'd bring this up since I haven't seen too much talk about this kinda outdated, leftover part of ESO's old systems.


People can get informed about the CP160 gear cap very quickly, but evidently not everyone does since very often you run into people below CP160 in battlegrounds and dungeons, which is not really ideal for any party involved.

I've even watched people brand new to ESO stream the game, be super excited to try out a battleground at max level and queueing right after hitting level cap... not wanting to backseat too much, I can only shake my head and think "oh no..."


Anyway, if it's not too much work and doesn't take away from working on other systems I'd love to see this system made better.

the funny thing here is CP is turned off in BGs so why would it matter you cp 1 or 3600 , i like using my sub accounts in BGs because of this hell my last account ran BGs top of the leaderboards from cp 4-cp306 iit has all BGs awards and achievements done had great fun doing it too

That's kinda where things stop only being confusing for new players, but also start affecting the matchmaking balance in game.

It shouldn't matter in BGs whether you're CP1 or CP3600, but as it happens you're missing out on a lot of power if you're not at the gear cap (CP160) - yet you're still able to queue into battlegrounds and dungeons at this point, which is by all intents and purposes still "leveling" period, not "end game" as you'd think coming from most other games.

This I would like to see solved with a more coherent leveling process.

you know before they done the CP 2.0 change players was saying it took years to get to 810cp and fell needed in content , so i started an NEW pc account where i went and got VSS , VMOL, VCR+2 all done before cp 200 and made cp 810 in 4 months of playing , and CP doesnt = knowledge ive been in groups where 2k cp players dont know what they arte doing , and even the combat lead for the game didnt know to HA to get resources back sop again knowledge f the player and CP time played or even making the game gives you that lol

No you're right, experience doesn't equal knowledge... but knowledge also dictates that you should get to CP160 to get max level gear and not do BGs/harder PvE content while being severely gimped stats wise because that usually won't end too well.

A good player can play without gear even and do alright in BGs etc, but that's not what you get most of the time when you see someone below CP160 - most of the time it's just someone who queued low level BGs while leveling, probably had fun doing so and thought they could continue doing that after reaching "max level"... without realizing that there is now a gear cap they suddenly need to reach as well in the champion system. The game does nothing to really communicate this to new players and it's just weird conceptually.


But yeah, as several posters mentioned it's not something that's super super important to fix... but it'd be a nice QOL change to have the leveling be a bit more streamlined, seeing that the developers have been focusing on a lot of QOL changes lately.

in todays game getting from cp 0 to cp 160 take no time at all 1st DRD gets you 10 cp 14 if you happen to have training gear trait 16 you happen to have gear set that gives 100% buff to weapon trait aging training , and if done in event time thats x2 in just one run , and can then do BGs by the end youd be cp 20-40/56 in two activities so ive really never seen the 0-160cp gear thing as anything but time to get gear for sitckerbook that i know ill need once im ready to set up an full build after cp 1600 for pve or 1850 for pvp because these are your real level caps when you get right down to it not 0-160

Decimus

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Cp are levels there is no difference

There is for new players who have no idea what Champion Points are and how reaching the "max level" isn't actually reaching the max level like in other MMOs. It's not cohesive at all, nor is there any reason for it to work the way it does right now when you think about it.

You can still have champion points, but the gear cap shouldn't be tied to them.

How long will it take to change the system vs how long does it take to read up on it...you want to spend months of dev time for something you can get informed about in 5m...
Imo devs should spend 90% of time on new content

Yeah of course if it's too much work other stuff should be prioritized, but thought I'd bring this up since I haven't seen too much talk about this kinda outdated, leftover part of ESO's old systems.


People can get informed about the CP160 gear cap very quickly, but evidently not everyone does since very often you run into people below CP160 in battlegrounds and dungeons, which is not really ideal for any party involved.

I've even watched people brand new to ESO stream the game, be super excited to try out a battleground at max level and queueing right after hitting level cap... not wanting to backseat too much, I can only shake my head and think "oh no..."


Anyway, if it's not too much work and doesn't take away from working on other systems I'd love to see this system made better.

the funny thing here is CP is turned off in BGs so why would it matter you cp 1 or 3600 , i like using my sub accounts in BGs because of this hell my last account ran BGs top of the leaderboards from cp 4-cp306 iit has all BGs awards and achievements done had great fun doing it too

That's kinda where things stop only being confusing for new players, but also start affecting the matchmaking balance in game.

It shouldn't matter in BGs whether you're CP1 or CP3600, but as it happens you're missing out on a lot of power if you're not at the gear cap (CP160) - yet you're still able to queue into battlegrounds and dungeons at this point, which is by all intents and purposes still "leveling" period, not "end game" as you'd think coming from most other games.

This I would like to see solved with a more coherent leveling process.

you know before they done the CP 2.0 change players was saying it took years to get to 810cp and fell needed in content , so i started an NEW pc account where i went and got VSS , VMOL, VCR+2 all done before cp 200 and made cp 810 in 4 months of playing , and CP doesnt = knowledge ive been in groups where 2k cp players dont know what they arte doing , and even the combat lead for the game didnt know to HA to get resources back sop again knowledge f the player and CP time played or even making the game gives you that lol

No you're right, experience doesn't equal knowledge... but knowledge also dictates that you should get to CP160 to get max level gear and not do BGs/harder PvE content while being severely gimped stats wise because that usually won't end too well.

A good player can play without gear even and do alright in BGs etc, but that's not what you get most of the time when you see someone below CP160 - most of the time it's just someone who queued low level BGs while leveling, probably had fun doing so and thought they could continue doing that after reaching "max level"... without realizing that there is now a gear cap they suddenly need to reach as well in the champion system. The game does nothing to really communicate this to new players and it's just weird conceptually.


But yeah, as several posters mentioned it's not something that's super super important to fix... but it'd be a nice QOL change to have the leveling be a bit more streamlined, seeing that the developers have been focusing on a lot of QOL changes lately.

in todays game getting from cp 0 to cp 160 take no time at all 1st DRD gets you 10 cp 14 if you happen to have training gear trait 16 you happen to have gear set that gives 100% buff to weapon trait aging training , and if done in event time thats x2 in just one run , and can then do BGs by the end youd be cp 20-40/56 in two activities so ive really never seen the 0-160cp gear thing as anything but time to get gear for sitckerbook that i know ill need once im ready to set up an full build after cp 1600 for pve or 1850 for pvp because these are your real level caps when you get right down to it not 0-160

I don't know why you and other people are telling me this, I'm well aware of the caps (I have 3600CP, 20 characters and close to 30k hours played time) and how long it takes to level. A new player isn't, and this is why you see people queue into BGs etc while they're technically still in the "leveling phase".

This leads to gameplay experiences that are bad for player retention, while the whole problem could be solved with proper design where hitting "max level" means being able to craft and use the gear necessary to not be at a huge disadvantage. It also leads into less balanced BGs, less fun dungeon experiences etc when you have people doing "max level content" who aren't actually max level... and the fault is not with the new players, the fault is with the design of the system.

LootAllTheStuff

Decimus wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Cp are levels there is no difference

There is for new players who have no idea what Champion Points are and how reaching the "max level" isn't actually reaching the max level like in other MMOs. It's not cohesive at all, nor is there any reason for it to work the way it does right now when you think about it.

You can still have champion points, but the gear cap shouldn't be tied to them.

How long will it take to change the system vs how long does it take to read up on it...you want to spend months of dev time for something you can get informed about in 5m...
Imo devs should spend 90% of time on new content

Yeah of course if it's too much work other stuff should be prioritized, but thought I'd bring this up since I haven't seen too much talk about this kinda outdated, leftover part of ESO's old systems.


People can get informed about the CP160 gear cap very quickly, but evidently not everyone does since very often you run into people below CP160 in battlegrounds and dungeons, which is not really ideal for any party involved.

I've even watched people brand new to ESO stream the game, be super excited to try out a battleground at max level and queueing right after hitting level cap... not wanting to backseat too much, I can only shake my head and think "oh no..."


Anyway, if it's not too much work and doesn't take away from working on other systems I'd love to see this system made better.

the funny thing here is CP is turned off in BGs so why would it matter you cp 1 or 3600 , i like using my sub accounts in BGs because of this hell my last account ran BGs top of the leaderboards from cp 4-cp306 iit has all BGs awards and achievements done had great fun doing it too

That's kinda where things stop only being confusing for new players, but also start affecting the matchmaking balance in game.

It shouldn't matter in BGs whether you're CP1 or CP3600, but as it happens you're missing out on a lot of power if you're not at the gear cap (CP160) - yet you're still able to queue into battlegrounds and dungeons at this point, which is by all intents and purposes still "leveling" period, not "end game" as you'd think coming from most other games.

This I would like to see solved with a more coherent leveling process.

you know before they done the CP 2.0 change players was saying it took years to get to 810cp and fell needed in content , so i started an NEW pc account where i went and got VSS , VMOL, VCR+2 all done before cp 200 and made cp 810 in 4 months of playing , and CP doesnt = knowledge ive been in groups where 2k cp players dont know what they arte doing , and even the combat lead for the game didnt know to HA to get resources back sop again knowledge f the player and CP time played or even making the game gives you that lol

No you're right, experience doesn't equal knowledge... but knowledge also dictates that you should get to CP160 to get max level gear and not do BGs/harder PvE content while being severely gimped stats wise because that usually won't end too well.

A good player can play without gear even and do alright in BGs etc, but that's not what you get most of the time when you see someone below CP160 - most of the time it's just someone who queued low level BGs while leveling, probably had fun doing so and thought they could continue doing that after reaching "max level"... without realizing that there is now a gear cap they suddenly need to reach as well in the champion system. The game does nothing to really communicate this to new players and it's just weird conceptually.


But yeah, as several posters mentioned it's not something that's super super important to fix... but it'd be a nice QOL change to have the leveling be a bit more streamlined, seeing that the developers have been focusing on a lot of QOL changes lately.

in todays game getting from cp 0 to cp 160 take no time at all 1st DRD gets you 10 cp 14 if you happen to have training gear trait 16 you happen to have gear set that gives 100% buff to weapon trait aging training , and if done in event time thats x2 in just one run , and can then do BGs by the end youd be cp 20-40/56 in two activities so ive really never seen the 0-160cp gear thing as anything but time to get gear for sitckerbook that i know ill need once im ready to set up an full build after cp 1600 for pve or 1850 for pvp because these are your real level caps when you get right down to it not 0-160

I don't know why you and other people are telling me this, I'm well aware of the caps (I have 3600CP, 20 characters and close to 30k hours played time) and how long it takes to level. A new player isn't, and this is why you see people queue into BGs etc while they're technically still in the "leveling phase".

Agreed that this specifically is a problem, largely because of your following observation:

This leads to gameplay experiences that are bad for player retention, while the whole problem could be solved with proper design where hitting "max level" means being able to craft and use the gear necessary to not be at a huge disadvantage. It also leads into less balanced BGs, less fun dungeon experiences etc when you have people doing "max level content" who aren't actually max level... and the fault is not with the new players, the fault is with the design of the system.

Of the possible solutions, one might be something similar to what is done for sub-level 50 players who group for dungeons - a modest select stat boost to offset the difference between CP150 and CP160 gear.

(I think we can ignore separate queues for level 50/CP150 and level 50/CP160+ players, because you don't want to dilute the player pool.)

CatalinaWineMixer2

I think with the new overland difficulty, it will be a lot easier for people to level up. It has really become so for all new players. Im not sure that's always going to be a good thing because many of the new players pass over important content that makes them good at the game, like mechs in dungeons and trials we no longer see (overpowered dps). I am against gatekeeping or exclusion tactics. But I am seeing more and more players at 1000 cp that have empty sticker books and no knowledge of the things they should have about the game. Even worse, people are taking their gold to level them. They are not doing new players any favors by doing this. I see the results of it every day in group finder. It has really become more of a build vs build way regarding combat because there is nothing remotely close to balance. This is an issue, especially for new players.

CameraBeardThePirate

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Cp are levels there is no difference

There is for new players who have no idea what Champion Points are and how reaching the "max level" isn't actually reaching the max level like in other MMOs. It's not cohesive at all, nor is there any reason for it to work the way it does right now when you think about it.

You can still have champion points, but the gear cap shouldn't be tied to them.

How long will it take to change the system vs how long does it take to read up on it...you want to spend months of dev time for something you can get informed about in 5m...
Imo devs should spend 90% of time on new content

Yeah of course if it's too much work other stuff should be prioritized, but thought I'd bring this up since I haven't seen too much talk about this kinda outdated, leftover part of ESO's old systems.


People can get informed about the CP160 gear cap very quickly, but evidently not everyone does since very often you run into people below CP160 in battlegrounds and dungeons, which is not really ideal for any party involved.

I've even watched people brand new to ESO stream the game, be super excited to try out a battleground at max level and queueing right after hitting level cap... not wanting to backseat too much, I can only shake my head and think "oh no..."


Anyway, if it's not too much work and doesn't take away from working on other systems I'd love to see this system made better.

the funny thing here is CP is turned off in BGs so why would it matter you cp 1 or 3600 , i like using my sub accounts in BGs because of this hell my last account ran BGs top of the leaderboards from cp 4-cp306 iit has all BGs awards and achievements done had great fun doing it too

It matters quite a bit if you aren't CP160 and you hop into a BG. CP 1-159 players are at a huge disadvantage; they aren't missing out on the actual Champion Points, but their gear itself is going to be way less powerful than everyone else in the BG. U50 BGs and U50 Cyrodiil should at the very least include players under CP160 as well.

twisttop138

A thing I really like about ESO compared to the many MMOs I've played over the years is no level cap raise every expansion. We've gotten an expansion almost every year. Could you imagine. New players will be fine. I was, though I wasn't a vet rank fan. You were. We get new players in guild. Of all the questions I get, level cap is pretty few and far between.