Selling crown is OK? or officially illegal?

AvalonRanger · January 2

Selling crown is OK for the "in game-gold" ? or officially illegal in the ESO playing rule?

I want to make it clear once and forever.

I've seen many of those type of crown selling issue chatting and activity of the grouping tools.
But is it OK? Or should we ignore those players?

kargen27 · January 2

Crown for in game gold is fine. Entire Discord channels are dedicated to linking buyers with sellers.

ArielSira · January 2

It is allowed because both are in-game currencies.

scrappy1342 · January 2

correct. trading for in game gold or in game items is fine and zos has confirmed this. trading for real money would be against TOS. and most likely not beneficial to anyone who got said crowns in a legal manner.

Gold25Dog · January 2

I am trying to understand how this legal in game trading is taking place - do both parties at least have to have gifting ?

I am struggling to understand why I cannot gift items out of the crown store to my friends in game - is this related in anyway ?

virtus753 · January 2

Gold25Dog wrote: »

I am trying to understand how this legal in game trading is taking place - do both parties at least have to have gifting ?

I am struggling to understand why I cannot gift items out of the crown store to my friends in game - is this related in anyway ?

No, both players do not need gifting perms — only the one gifting the crown store items needs crown store gifting perms. Any player can send the gold and receive the crown store item in exchange.

Yes, this is related to your inability to gift crown store items. Due to a long history of systemic abuse of this system by bad actors, ZOS disabled crown store gifting as a default and enabled it only for accounts they felt were safe enough based on their internal metrics. You may request that they grant you perms to gift crown store items, but be prepared for a no if they don’t feel your account currently meets their metrics. (You would then be able to apply again later.)

But if you are interested in spending the gold for someone else to gift you the crown store items, you do not need gifting perms. You are free to give that player gold. They are the one who will need gifting perms.

mocap · January 2

The problem is not the players getting gold from you, but what they do with that gold afterwards. If ZOS can prove that they are cashing out into real money, then you might start having problems, cuz you became part of laundry.

Danikat · January 2

Selling crowns for gold is allowed. (Trading crowns for other in-game items is also allowed.)

Selling crowns for real money, or other benefits outside the game is illegal.

Gold25Dog wrote: »

I am trying to understand how this legal in game trading is taking place - do both parties at least have to have gifting ?

I am struggling to understand why I cannot gift items out of the crown store to my friends in game - is this related in anyway ?

The person selling the crowns has to have gifting enabled, because you can't actually transfer crowns to another account, so what they do is gift the recipient the item/s they want. Both sellers and buyers advertise based on amount of crowns and price because that's the important info at that step, then when they agree to trade the buyer will specify which item they want to be gifted.

The person buying crowns doesn't need gifting enabled, because all they do is mail the gold to the seller. Sometimes there's a 3rd party involved to prevent scams, a guild officer or someone else both sides trusts - the buyer will send the gold to them first, they'll confirm to the seller they've got it, the seller will gift the item to the buyer and then the mediator will send them the gold. It's more complicated but it means no one can run away without completing their side of the trade.

The fact that you can't gift items to your friends is related. A while ago ZOS restricted who could send crown store gifts because apparently the system was being abused for real money trading. You have to contact Customer Support and ask them to enable gifting for you. They won't say what the criteria is, they say you have to show you're an active member of the community or something like that, but I think basically you have to have an account they don't think you'd be willing to risk getting banned though some mix of age, how much of the game you've played and money spent on it.

Gold25Dog · January 2

virtus753 wrote: »

Gold25Dog wrote: »

I am trying to understand how this legal in game trading is taking place - do both parties at least have to have gifting ?

I am struggling to understand why I cannot gift items out of the crown store to my friends in game - is this related in anyway ?

No, both players do not need gifting perms — only the one gifting the crown store items needs crown store gifting perms. Any player can send the gold and receive the crown store item in exchange.

Yes, this is related to your inability to gift crown store items. Due to a long history of systemic abuse of this system by bad actors, ZOS disabled crown store gifting as a default and enabled it only for accounts they felt were safe enough based on their internal metrics. You may request that they grant you perms to gift crown store items, but be prepared for a no if they don’t feel your account currently meets their metrics. (You would then be able to apply again later.)

But if you are interested in spending the gold for someone else to gift you the crown store items, you do not need gifting perms. You are free to give that player gold. They are the one who will need gifting perms.

Thank you for the clarity. I will need to ponder if I am ok with this solution as it will determine whether or not I continue playing this game with an account I cannot gift from and no idea of what needs to be met in order to gift. It all feels rather arbitrary and discriminatory to me. I have another thread where I have been going off a bit on this topic - I guess we'll see if anything gets recognized as an issue that needs to be worked or not - if the past is any predictor of the future this is a dead issue

Danikat · January 2

Gold25Dog wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Gold25Dog wrote: »

I am trying to understand how this legal in game trading is taking place - do both parties at least have to have gifting ?

I am struggling to understand why I cannot gift items out of the crown store to my friends in game - is this related in anyway ?

No, both players do not need gifting perms — only the one gifting the crown store items needs crown store gifting perms. Any player can send the gold and receive the crown store item in exchange.

Yes, this is related to your inability to gift crown store items. Due to a long history of systemic abuse of this system by bad actors, ZOS disabled crown store gifting as a default and enabled it only for accounts they felt were safe enough based on their internal metrics. You may request that they grant you perms to gift crown store items, but be prepared for a no if they don’t feel your account currently meets their metrics. (You would then be able to apply again later.)

But if you are interested in spending the gold for someone else to gift you the crown store items, you do not need gifting perms. You are free to give that player gold. They are the one who will need gifting perms.

Thank you for the clarity. I will need to ponder if I am ok with this solution as it will determine whether or not I continue playing this game with an account I cannot gift from and no idea of what needs to be met in order to gift. It all feels rather arbitrary and discriminatory to me. I have another thread where I have been going off a bit on this topic - I guess we'll see if anything gets recognized as an issue that needs to be worked or not - if the past is any predictor of the future this is a dead issue

They're not going to change the policy because you don't like it. Even (or especially) if you're spamming the forum by digging up every past topic about it to complain.

It's not something players are supposed to like. It's (according to ZOS) a necessary security feature. They'll only change it if they think that's no longer necessary to prevent illegal activity in the game.

Gold25Dog · January 2

Danikat wrote: »

Gold25Dog wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Gold25Dog wrote: »

I am trying to understand how this legal in game trading is taking place - do both parties at least have to have gifting ?

I am struggling to understand why I cannot gift items out of the crown store to my friends in game - is this related in anyway ?

No, both players do not need gifting perms — only the one gifting the crown store items needs crown store gifting perms. Any player can send the gold and receive the crown store item in exchange.

Yes, this is related to your inability to gift crown store items. Due to a long history of systemic abuse of this system by bad actors, ZOS disabled crown store gifting as a default and enabled it only for accounts they felt were safe enough based on their internal metrics. You may request that they grant you perms to gift crown store items, but be prepared for a no if they don’t feel your account currently meets their metrics. (You would then be able to apply again later.)

But if you are interested in spending the gold for someone else to gift you the crown store items, you do not need gifting perms. You are free to give that player gold. They are the one who will need gifting perms.

Thank you for the clarity. I will need to ponder if I am ok with this solution as it will determine whether or not I continue playing this game with an account I cannot gift from and no idea of what needs to be met in order to gift. It all feels rather arbitrary and discriminatory to me. I have another thread where I have been going off a bit on this topic - I guess we'll see if anything gets recognized as an issue that needs to be worked or not - if the past is any predictor of the future this is a dead issue

They're not going to change the policy because you don't like it. Even (or especially) if you're spamming the forum by digging up every past topic about it to complain.

It's not something players are supposed to like. It's (according to ZOS) a necessary security feature. They'll only change it if they think that's no longer necessary to prevent illegal activity in the game.

I am getting that loud and clear now - It is a systemic failure - 'It's not something players are supposed to like.' pretty much sums it all up. I will take my time and money elsewhere - there are plenty of other places that seem to have no issues with managing what it is involved with gifting.

valenwood_vegan · January 2

For sure, gifting as it's set up right now is not the greatest system. It's a compromise between gifting being entirely disabled and the prior system where everyone could gift, which was enabling bad actors. (EDIT: and reflects an improvement over the system they briefly tried where ALL gifting had to be done via a support ticket, which proved to be pretty unworkable). Like many things zos has done in the past couple years, it feels like it was rushed and left in an unfinished state.

Many have asked for improvements to the gifting system, or even integrated crown/gold trading as some other games have, but it doesn't appear to be a top priority for zos at this time. There are many, many issues with the game right now and they clearly lack the resources to tackle all of them immediately.

Hopefully the negative feedback they receive about the current gifting system will keep the issue on their radar and lead them to revisit it in the future, but also let's be serious for a moment - they are 100% not going to drop everything and change how gifting works on a whim in a short timeframe because someone is spamming the forum about it (on new years day when they're not even working, too).

While gifting should be revisited, and is definitely important to some players, it is not even close to a core feature of the game; and if one's primary interest in eso is gifting, and they aren't willing to be patient and engage with the game some more and try requesting gifting access again later or to continue playing the rest of the game while waiting to see if zos decides to revisit the issue; then indeed they unfortunately may need to look into another game to fill that need at this time.

Gold25Dog · January 2

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

For sure, gifting as it's set up right now is not the greatest system. It's a compromise between gifting being entirely disabled and the prior system where everyone could gift, which was enabling bad actors. (EDIT: and reflects an improvement over the system they briefly tried where ALL gifting had to be done via a support ticket, which proved to be pretty unworkable). Like many things zos has done in the past couple years, it feels like it was rushed and left in an unfinished state.

Many have asked for improvements to the gifting system, or even integrated crown/gold trading as some other games have, but it doesn't appear to be a top priority for zos at this time. There are many, many issues with the game right now and they clearly lack the resources to tackle all of them immediately.

Hopefully the negative feedback they receive about the current gifting system will keep the issue on their radar and lead them to revisit it in the future, but also let's be serious for a moment - they are 100% not going to drop everything and change how gifting works on a whim in a short timeframe because someone is spamming the forum about it (on new years day when they're not even working, too).

While gifting should be revisited, and is definitely important to some players, it is not even close to a core feature of the game; and if one's primary interest in eso is gifting, and they aren't willing to be patient and engage with the game some more and try requesting gifting access again later or to continue playing the rest of the game while waiting to see if zos decides to revisit the issue; then indeed they unfortunately may need to look into another game to fill that need at this time.

I appreciate the feedback - I have made a decision, I just think I needed to vent about it a bit to see if anyone cared - they don't so I won't either. For the record I have requested multiple times across multiple years to no avail - it is what it is - this is not something that has value to them so I do not see value in continuing with them - simple as that.