ESO Writing Team: Please...stop it.

Gabriel_H

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Morrowind has a Telvanni mage that cloned himself as women and married his daughters. Divayth Fyr actually who in eso lol does not have the daughter wives yet.

Pfft! That's nothing.

TES III - Morrowind - Pilgrimage to Maar Gan
Objective: Perform the pilgrimage to Maar Gan's shrine
Then: Taunt the nearby Dremora into attacking.

Dialogue:
"I am Anhaedra. If you are a pilgrim, read the inscription on the stupid rock."

Taunt the Daedra "Your threats are weak like your flesh, mortal."
Taunt the Daedra "Continue with your insults, mortal. I long to feast on your marrow."
Taunt the Daedra "Ha! Fine words from one born from the wrong end of a guar."
Taunt the Daedra "After I kill you, I will r**e your corpse. Don't worry. I'll be gentle."

And yes, that 4 letter r-word is what you think it is. Oh, and that's base game which had a PEGI 12 rating.

Jaimeh

flizomica wrote: »

where everything's gotta be a stupid quip and storytelling is now incompatible with sincerity.

This is exactly the issue, well said.

SkaiFaith

Syldras wrote: »

I find it interesting how "for adults" always seems to mean more or less bawdy content (although what ESO has in that regard is super tame - I find it silly and clichéd, that's my whole problem with it), but never deeper characterisations, the avoidance of clear black/white schemes and other clichés, and complex stories not shying away from "difficult" topics (like moral dilemmas or questions of philosophy). That's what I would call "adult".

Dilemmas and questions of philosophy? You really know adults like this? I envy you, Sir.

xbluerosesx wrote: »

they're going for the mOdErN aUdIeNcE

So modern audience CAN read - that's news to me.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Morrowind has a Telvanni mage that cloned himself as women and married his daughters. Divayth Fyr actually who in eso lol does not have the daughter wives yet.

Pfft! That's nothing.

TES III - Morrowind - Pilgrimage to Maar Gan
Objective: Perform the pilgrimage to Maar Gan's shrine
Then: Taunt the nearby Dremora into attacking.

Dialogue:
"I am Anhaedra. If you are a pilgrim, read the inscription on the stupid rock."

Taunt the Daedra "Your threats are weak like your flesh, mortal."
Taunt the Daedra "Continue with your insults, mortal. I long to feast on your marrow."
Taunt the Daedra "Ha! Fine words from one born from the wrong end of a guar."
Taunt the Daedra "After I kill you, I will r**e your corpse. Don't worry. I'll be gentle."

And yes, that 4 letter r-word is what you think it is. Oh, and that's base game which had a PEGI 12 rating.

You could hear way worse things in any Xbox360 lobby voice chat, spit by random 13yo - "back in my days..."

Anyway, agree with OP and the criticism of "MCU style" of humor.

Northwold

I think it's difficult to do when you're writing an awful lot of characters presumably under pressure, but it is important. In Blackwoods / Deadlands, on a slightly different but related note, Lyranth ended up speaking in what I assume was South Carolina grammar / vernacular. It was truly weird. To be absolutely fair, the likes of George RR Martin get this particular aspect of things wrong a lot too -- writing in a pseudo antique British English fantasy style but then saying eg "write me".

M_Volsung

I would like to have the option of having my character swing at an NPC for trying to flirt with her.

Syldras

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Still is lol different opinions and all that right. Theres serious and too serious. If you think ESO is bad lol don’t play the main series, Oblivions questlines are largely loved because the quests were so fun and sometimes crazy/not serious. Ok oftentimes.
Morrowind has a Telvanni mage that cloned himself as women and married his daughters. Divayth Fyr actually who in eso lol does not have the daughter wives yet.
This is the series you’re apart of. It has serious and not serious moments depending on a…. Certain point of view.

You don't have to explain the lore to me. I grew up with TES. I watched my father play Arena, Daggerfall and Redguard as a small child, and played Morrowind on my own in my youth (and later also Oblivion, Skyrim, TES Legends and of course ESO, and I also played TES1 and 2 later as an adult). And with that I can clearly say: There's a difference between the alienness of Morrowind, some of the funnier quests in Oblivion (like the Sanguine quest or some quests on the Shivering Isles), the humour of Cadwell in early ESO, or that "everything is a quip" writing we got in ESO today. And I have the feeling I'm not the only person who favors the writing ESO had in it's earlier years (base game and Daedric War story arc for sure, maybe Elsweyr and Greymoor, but then things changed) over the writing we get today. Otherwise there wouldn't be threads criticising the writing all the time. I've seen half a dozen over the past few months alone.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Someone can write better…. Millennials typically don’t, and I am one so I think it’s a fair assessment of my generation lol.

I seem to be about the same age as you and have made different experiences. But I guess that doesn't matter. In any way, not everyone can become a writer, it needs talent. Even if the percentage may vary, I don't think there's any generation where no talented writers exist at all.

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Dilemmas and questions of philosophy? You really know adults like this? I envy you, Sir.

It's not uncommon among my peers.

liliub17_ESO

Gabriel_H wrote: »

The average age of an MMO player is 26 with 25% of players being teenagers. Most formal definitions of "young adult" are 25 and under.

Age demographics can vary, but in the EU about 17% of the population is aged 15 to 29 - a larger bracket than just "teenagers".

So if 25% of teenagers are playing MMOs but make up less than 17% of the population, then yes in fact MMOs are favoured by young gamers more so than older ones.

Ye gods, this makes me feel like an antiquity.

soelslaev

Gabriel_H wrote: »

And yes, that 4 letter r-word is what you think it is.:D

Forget writing in games. I just found a serious problem with society in real life.

You failed to c*ns*r the 4 letter k-word in your quote. The k-word thing is much worse than the r-word thing.

I c*ns*r*d the word "c*ns*r" because I find that activity so offensive, that I cannot stand to see the word written out. I have been a victim of c*ns*rsh*p before, and I am triggered by it. In fact, I know several people who have been impacted by it, and the world would be a better place if c*ns*rsh*p never occurred at all.

Thank you.

Gabriel_H

liliub17_ESO wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

The average age of an MMO player is 26 with 25% of players being teenagers. Most formal definitions of "young adult" are 25 and under.

Age demographics can vary, but in the EU about 17% of the population is aged 15 to 29 - a larger bracket than just "teenagers".

So if 25% of teenagers are playing MMOs but make up less than 17% of the population, then yes in fact MMOs are favoured by young gamers more so than older ones.

Ye gods, this makes me feel like an antiquity.

Preaching to the choir my friend.

Malyore

Apollosipod wrote: »

I'm currently playing through eastern Solstice and I am struggling due to the writing decisions this team has made. At one point you actually have our character make the comment "How did the assault go? I was busy rescuing prisoners and stuff."

Am I the only one that really hates this? I don't find it clever or funny. It's just immersion breaking. Why can't any of the dialogue be written like it's not an episode of a sitcom?

Alphawolf01A wrote: »

I physically cringed at the end of an eastern solstice quest where a ghost sends you to tell his wife he died and you are given the option to flirt with her after delivering the news. Just low class.

😧

That's actually horrible. I'm glad I learned my lesson by Necrom/Gold Road.

BardokRedSnow

Syldras wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Still is lol different opinions and all that right. Theres serious and too serious. If you think ESO is bad lol don’t play the main series, Oblivions questlines are largely loved because the quests were so fun and sometimes crazy/not serious. Ok oftentimes.
Morrowind has a Telvanni mage that cloned himself as women and married his daughters. Divayth Fyr actually who in eso lol does not have the daughter wives yet.
This is the series you’re apart of. It has serious and not serious moments depending on a…. Certain point of view.

You don't have to explain the lore to me. I grew up with TES. I watched my father play Arena, Daggerfall and Redguard as a small child, and played Morrowind on my own in my youth (and later also Oblivion, Skyrim, TES Legends and of course ESO, and I also played TES1 and 2 later as an adult). And with that I can clearly say: There's a difference between the alienness of Morrowind, some of the funnier quests in Oblivion (like the Sanguine quest or some quests on the Shivering Isles), the humour of Cadwell in early ESO, or that "everything is a quip" writing we got in ESO today. And I have the feeling I'm not the only person who favors the writing ESO had in it's earlier years (base game and Daedric War story arc for sure, maybe Elsweyr and Greymoor, but then things changed) over the writing we get today. Otherwise there wouldn't be threads criticising the writing all the time. I've seen half a dozen over the past few months alone.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Someone can write better…. Millennials typically don’t, and I am one so I think it’s a fair assessment of my generation lol.

I seem to be about the same age as you and have made different experiences. But I guess that doesn't matter. In any way, not everyone can become a writer, it needs talent. Even if the percentage may vary, I don't think there's any generation where no talented writers exist at all.

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Dilemmas and questions of philosophy? You really know adults like this? I envy you, Sir.

It's not uncommon among my peers.

Good you know the series as do I, and I respectfully disagree Solstice was a large leap from the past, to me its rose tinted glasses.

From my perspective being a lurker thats only recently participating, this community would complain whether the writing was good or not, its their favorite pastime.

I don't even fully disagree, it can be better yea, and Wrothgar was its best example imo, but there sure is a ton of nitpicking going on in here also with no acknowledgement of what actually was improved, which I'd say Solstice is a step in the right direction and gets more right than wrong with emphasis on choice and outcome on at least the side quests.

Im 33, there's not a single millennial writer I could say I am impressed with but yea that is my personal experience. I'm sure there's some somewhere but they're much fewer and further between than previous ones and AI will only make it worse, conversation for another day.

laniakea_0

Apollosipod wrote: »

I'm currently playing through eastern Solstice and I am struggling due to the writing decisions this team has made. At one point you actually have our character make the comment "How did the assault go? I was busy rescuing prisoners and stuff."

Am I the only one that really hates this? I don't find it clever or funny. It's just immersion breaking. Why can't any of the dialogue be written like it's not an episode of a sitcom?

the solution would be a memory system. where you could "remember" things you already know about the things other characters reference, in a way that's separate from dialogue interactions. you know, like a journal. but not just the way the quest journal currently is but where it actually keeps track of information you've obtained and events that have transpired.

Syldras

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Good you know the series as do I, and I respectfully disagree Solstice was a large leap from the past, to me its rose tinted glasses.
From my perspective being a lurker thats only recently participating, this community would complain whether the writing was good or not, its their favorite pastime.
I don't even fully disagree, it can be better yea, and Wrothgar was its best example imo, but there sure is a ton of nitpicking going on in here also with no acknowledgement of what actually was improved, which I'd say Solstice is a step in the right direction and gets more right than wrong with emphasis on choice and outcome on at least the side quests.

I've just recently repeated the base game zones and started to replay Morrowind on a side character, basically right before and after I played West Solstice on my main. I've also finished East Solstice on PTS twice (and playing it on Live now, of course). And I clearly see differences in writing. The humour is different, the whole writing style and speech style feels more complex in earlier chapters than it is now, there's much more lore even on small, unremarkable locations (every place has at least some lorebook, even if it's a tiny ruin somewhere in the wilderness - there's always some kind of background about what that place is or what had happened there), there was just more attention to detail and more care to present the fictional world to us through different lore sources. Topics were also often more serious and tragic situations could actually remain tragic without some npc cracking a joke every three seconds.

Do I like that they give us more different dialogue options now? Of course. I'm a roleplayer, of course I appreciate everything that lets me play my characters more the way I imagine them. I just wished many options weren't worded to exaggeratedly, and that we actually got to choose how we feel about people - most of the time, there's no real choice, but it's predefined for us whether we are supposed to like someone or not. What big difference does it make if the only options are "friendly", "even friendlier" or "funny"? I'd rather see contrary options; for every friendly one there should also be an unfriendly option. Of course giving us options at all is a step into the right direction. Now if they refine this it could get interesting.

But on the other hand there's also many things that are worse than in early chapters: The permanent quips, the colloquial 21st century speech, the decreased background lore,... Why was it even called "Season of the Worm Cult" when we got no new lore on the cult, on Mannimarco, on Wormblood, or anything related to that? We have the situation of Mannimarco and Galerion meeting again, which one would think is a really meaningful situation in terms of lore - and then we don't really get anything from it. Mannimarco's return also didn't really bring any new lore, and another Planemeld wasn't the most creative story choice either.

AScarlato

Apollosipod wrote: »

I'm currently playing through eastern Solstice and I am struggling due to the writing decisions this team has made. At one point you actually have our character make the comment "How did the assault go? I was busy rescuing prisoners and stuff."

I just did a sidequest in Solstice where the High Elf NPC said "rituals and stuff". It was one of their "quirky personality" NPCs that we run into every other quest, which is tiring.

I would have hoped that "and stuff" as dialogue appeared never, but after this thread only once. But now we know it's at least twice with the same words, probably from a terrible writer they need to ... ((editing to not be so harsh)) have someone review their work and have a lore / setting consultant catch dialogue like this to stop it from happening.

mdjessup4906

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Eso writing has been terrible for ages and I never understand people who think eso has good quests, lore and storytelling (with very few exception).

I remember the Gold Road story line where Hearmeus mora "didn't think about" the option to force Ithelia to create a new reality where she doesn't have her powers, as an option to fix the problem.....

So you want me to believe that a daedric deity known for possesing infinite knowledge more or less, with the ability to see past, present and future simultaneously, "didn't think of it"?....like really....

I headcanon this as hermie playing games with us like he does in skyrim. He having ulterior motives and acting innocent is because he needs us to do the thing and he thinks that will get him what he wants. Of course we the player only have the option to blindly believe in Good Guy Mora. Being able to at least sass him while we suck it up and play our part in the grand design would have been nice.

Alphawolf01A

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Eso writing has been terrible for ages and I never understand people who think eso has good quests, lore and storytelling (with very few exception).

I remember the Gold Road story line where Hearmeus mora "didn't think about" the option to force Ithelia to create a new reality where she doesn't have her powers, as an option to fix the problem.....

So you want me to believe that a daedric deity known for possesing infinite knowledge more or less, with the ability to see past, present and future simultaneously, "didn't think of it"?....like really....

I headcanon this as hermie playing games with us like he does in skyrim. He having ulterior motives and acting innocent is because he needs us to do the thing and he thinks that will get him what he wants. Of course we the player only have the option to blindly believe in Good Guy Mora. Being able to at least sass him while we suck it up and play our part in the grand design would have been nice.

Just a little razzing, "Right. Go ahead and sass the deity being that has the ability to make almost the whole of existence forget that you even ever existed!"

I get what you're saying though, lol.

xR3ACTORx

Wouldn't be surprised if writing is already done by ChatGPT

Apollosipod

whitecrow wrote: »

Great, ESO is now fan fiction.

AScarlato wrote: »

Apollosipod wrote: »

I'm currently playing through eastern Solstice and I am struggling due to the writing decisions this team has made. At one point you actually have our character make the comment "How did the assault go? I was busy rescuing prisoners and stuff."

I just did a sidequest in Solstice where the High Elf NPC said "rituals and stuff". It was one of their "quirky personality" NPCs that we run into every other quest, which is tiring.

I would have hoped that "and stuff" as dialogue appeared never, but after this thread only once. But now we know it's at least twice with the same words, probably from a terrible writer they need to ... ((editing to not be so harsh)) have someone review their work and have a lore / setting consultant catch dialogue like this to stop it from happening.

"This is getting out of hand! Now there are two of them!"

Seriously, what are they doing? Are the writers being pulled in from non-writing teams? That is just horrendous