NW opportunity for ESO

SneaK

ZOS,
In the nicest possible way, with a competitor in the genre shutting down, this is a massive opportunity to grab more players. It’s time to start communicating and get involved in your game. Self actualize, work through past mistakes, most importantly pour into your community so it will grow.


The punchline-
(Your community is MMO fans, not single player ES fans)

Gabriel_H

While Steam stats are not the be all and end all, the numbers shown for NW seem to paint a pretty clear story:



Players are showing up when new content drops, complete it quickly, then stop playing for another year. This is an indicator of a game that doesn't hold attention on a monthly basis.

While ESOs numbers are down in recent years, they are at least not spiking over 12 months like NW. Those NW players are likely already playing ESO on a consistent basis, merely taking a break from ESO when new content drops in NW.

Radiate77

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Firor’s departure was an omen of worse to come.

New World was killing it with Nighthaven, and that wasn’t enough to save the game, I’m almost afraid of a One Tamriel 2.0 because that could be Microsoft’s ending ESO on a high one too.

When it comes to business decisions…
Amazon ≈ Microsoft

spartaxoxo

Gabriel_H wrote: »

While Steam stats are not the be all and end all, the numbers shown for NW seem to paint a pretty clear story:



Players are showing up when new content drops, complete it quickly, then stop playing for another year. This is an indicator of a game that doesn't hold attention on a monthly basis.

While ESOs numbers are down in recent years, they are at least not spiking over 12 months like NW. Those NW players are likely already playing ESO on a consistent basis, merely taking a break from ESO when new content drops in NW.

I was playing New World before this announcement and several players were posting in that game's zone chat about ESO. They had some criticisms of this game that they had high hopes NW would do better and they were all very excited about that game's latest expansion.

ESO would be wise to tease the direction this game is going sooner rather than later because there was definitely a lot of crossover players in NW from what I saw.

Gabriel_H

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I was playing New World before this announcement and several players were posting in that game's zone chat about ESO. They had some criticisms of this game that they had high hopes NW would do better and they were all very excited about that game's latest expansion.

ESO would be wise to tease the direction this game is going sooner rather than later because there was definitely a lot of crossover players in NW from what I saw.

I'd heard a lot of good things about NW. Sadly it seems the player numbers weren't consistent enough to keep upper management happy.

While ESO has lost players, it's monthly numbers over 12 months don't spike. That's predictable revenue from ESO+ subs, and crown purchases, as well as an indicator of how many will pay for new content.

There are always doomsayers on the forum about ESO is dying, but from a financial point of view, it is still profitable and predictably so. NW did not have that predictability meaning any decision to invest in more content would have that in mind.

Use it or lose it.

DenverRalphy

Gabriel_H wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I was playing New World before this announcement and several players were posting in that game's zone chat about ESO. They had some criticisms of this game that they had high hopes NW would do better and they were all very excited about that game's latest expansion.

ESO would be wise to tease the direction this game is going sooner rather than later because there was definitely a lot of crossover players in NW from what I saw.

I'd heard a lot of good things about NW. Sadly it seems the player numbers weren't consistent enough to keep upper management happy.

While ESO has lost players, it's monthly numbers over 12 months don't spike. That's predictable revenue from ESO+ subs, and crown purchases, as well as an indicator of how many will pay for new content.

There are always doomsayers on the forum about ESO is dying, but from a financial point of view, it is still profitable and predictably so. NW did not have that predictability meaning any decision to invest in more content would have that in mind.

Use it or lose it.

NW is shutting down because Amazon cut 14,000 jobs in a move to focus more into AI investments.

Sound familiar?

spartaxoxo

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I was playing New World before this announcement and several players were posting in that game's zone chat about ESO. They had some criticisms of this game that they had high hopes NW would do better and they were all very excited about that game's latest expansion.

ESO would be wise to tease the direction this game is going sooner rather than later because there was definitely a lot of crossover players in NW from what I saw.

I'd heard a lot of good things about NW. Sadly it seems the player numbers weren't consistent enough to keep upper management happy.

While ESO has lost players, it's monthly numbers over 12 months don't spike. That's predictable revenue from ESO+ subs, and crown purchases, as well as an indicator of how many will pay for new content.

There are always doomsayers on the forum about ESO is dying, but from a financial point of view, it is still profitable and predictably so. NW did not have that predictability meaning any decision to invest in more content would have that in mind.

Use it or lose it.

NW is shutting down because Amazon cut 14,000 jobs in a move to focus more into AI investments.

Sound familiar?

I remember when people argued me up and down that it wasn't about AI for Microsoft and now Amazon is doing the same. I suspect the video game industry will see more of this in the coming years, unfortunately.

duagloth

Radiate77 wrote: »

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Firor’s departure was an omen of worse to come.

New World was killing it with Nighthaven, and that wasn’t enough to save the game, I’m almost afraid of a One Tamriel 2.0 because that could be Microsoft’s ending ESO on a high one too.

When it comes to business decisions…
Amazon ≈ Microsoft

Apparently no one remembers when fiorir was part of ultima online, it dropped during his tenure and even more when he left.

DenverRalphy

duagloth wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Firor’s departure was an omen of worse to come.

New World was killing it with Nighthaven, and that wasn’t enough to save the game, I’m almost afraid of a One Tamriel 2.0 because that could be Microsoft’s ending ESO on a high one too.

When it comes to business decisions…
Amazon ≈ Microsoft

Apparently no one remembers when fiorir was part of ultima online, it dropped during his tenure and even more when he left.

Nobody even remembers what a hot mess Ultima Online was in and of itself. That game got sooo much wrong. But nobody knew at the time because there was nothing else to compare it to. It's reputation is built solely upon a skewed/twisted recollection. And anyone who was a part of it was able to piggyback on that reputation.

SneaK

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I was playing New World before this announcement and several players were posting in that game's zone chat about ESO. They had some criticisms of this game that they had high hopes NW would do better and they were all very excited about that game's latest expansion.

ESO would be wise to tease the direction this game is going sooner rather than later because there was definitely a lot of crossover players in NW from what I saw.

This

Radiate77

SneaK wrote: »

The punchline-
(Your community is MMO fans, not single player ES fans)

Also wanted to chime in on this… while I agree there are a lot of MMO players who play ESO, in my experience there are a lot more people playing that do so because of that TES name.

Think about it like this, if Elder Scrolls was not the IP attached to this, do you think we would have made it to our One Tamriel update?

Funny enough I am an MMO fan and a TES fan, but if I could trade all of the garbage animations for a more Skyrim-grounded game similar to what 76 is with Fallout 4, I’d do that in a heartbeat.

moderatelyfatman

Gabriel_H wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I was playing New World before this announcement and several players were posting in that game's zone chat about ESO. They had some criticisms of this game that they had high hopes NW would do better and they were all very excited about that game's latest expansion.

ESO would be wise to tease the direction this game is going sooner rather than later because there was definitely a lot of crossover players in NW from what I saw.

I'd heard a lot of good things about NW. Sadly it seems the player numbers weren't consistent enough to keep upper management happy.

While ESO has lost players, it's monthly numbers over 12 months don't spike. That's predictable revenue from ESO+ subs, and crown purchases, as well as an indicator of how many will pay for new content.

There are always doomsayers on the forum about ESO is dying, but from a financial point of view, it is still profitable and predictably so. NW did not have that predictability meaning any decision to invest in more content would have that in mind.

Use it or lose it.

I'd argue that the reason ESO numbers don't spike like they used to is that a major chunk of the endgame players (who come to farm new gear each expansion) have quit and most of those remaining are casuals who log in to chill for an hour or two. These are players who log for the dailies and some dungeon runs before logging off.

Vonnegut2506

Radiate77 wrote: »

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Firor’s departure was an omen of worse to come.

New World was killing it with Nighthaven, and that wasn’t enough to save the game, I’m almost afraid of a One Tamriel 2.0 because that could be Microsoft’s ending ESO on a high one too.

When it comes to business decisions…
Amazon ≈ Microsoft

New World might have killed it with Nighthaven, but they completely botched the rollout. Every server having queues of several thousand people every single primetime never allowed any good momentum to happen. I tried to play it every night for the week after Nighthaven dropped, and I was never able to get into the game. I did get to play it for a couple hours at 6 in the morning before the server crashed, and I just swapped over to ESO since I didn't want to deal with logging back in with a queue.

Vaqual

Radiate77 wrote: »

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Firor’s departure was an omen of worse to come.

New World was killing it with Nighthaven, and that wasn’t enough to save the game, I’m almost afraid of a One Tamriel 2.0 because that could be Microsoft’s ending ESO on a high one too.

When it comes to business decisions…
Amazon ≈ Microsoft

Putting a bullet to their cash cow to burn a couple million on a failed AAA launch and a few perpetually stuck-in-development titles? EA might sue for stealing their business strategy.

SneaK

Radiate77 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

The punchline-
(Your community is MMO fans, not single player ES fans)

Also wanted to chime in on this… while I agree there are a lot of MMO players who play ESO, in my experience there are a lot more people playing that do so because of that TES name.

Think about it like this, if Elder Scrolls was not the IP attached to this, do you think we would have made it to our One Tamriel update?

Funny enough I am an MMO fan and a TES fan, but if I could trade all of the garbage animations for a more Skyrim-grounded game similar to what 76 is with Fallout 4, I’d do that in a heartbeat.

ESO is my first elder scrolls game, I could give a rip about the lore, it’s neat now that I’ve been in it for so long but definitely not what brought me to the game. Even then, that’s not what I really mean, the ES IP can bring people in, but the games survival is dependent on the MMO community. When TES 6 or 9 or whatever drops, those single rpgers will leave. The MMO community will remain, in theory. The studio leaning into the single player aspects over the MMO aspects WILL KILL this MMO we call ESO.

Unfadingsilence

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Firor’s departure was an omen of worse to come.

New World was killing it with Nighthaven, and that wasn’t enough to save the game, I’m almost afraid of a One Tamriel 2.0 because that could be Microsoft’s ending ESO on a high one too.

When it comes to business decisions…
Amazon ≈ Microsoft

New World might have killed it with Nighthaven, but they completely botched the rollout. Every server having queues of several thousand people every single primetime never allowed any good momentum to happen. I tried to play it every night for the week after Nighthaven dropped, and I was never able to get into the game. I did get to play it for a couple hours at 6 in the morning before the server crashed, and I just swapped over to ESO since I didn't want to deal with logging back in with a queue.

They definitely killed it with that update, but at the same time, amazon itself killed it all together.Since they already made the announcement today that they are shutting down next year

Xarc

I think one of the most important things for a game to maintain a solid playerbase is guilds, and having played NW I find that ESO manages guilds better (even if it could be greatly improved).

CAB_Life

NW also had billions of failed investment to produce a mediocre result. ESO has the benefit of being cash stable. But yes, the general dearth of good action MMORPG content provides a unique opportunity for ZOS—should they want to seize on it. (Remains to be seen, but I’m optimistic.)

PapaTankers

A lot of eso pvp players seeked refuge in NW. They just cant catch a break.

Jaimeh

If ZOS treated ESO like the AAA game is supposed to be and invested in it heavily they could really make it shine again. The biggest mistake they made was instead of figuring out another way to fix performance issues, they started to slowly gut game elements instead. The recent memory reduction change is yet another sad example of this. The servers seem more unstable than ever at the moment, if they can't handle a fight at a siege to the point the mobs, skill animations completely disappear, and the visuals are stuttering like crazy. And if players can't play smoothly, they will inevitably move on.

HairyFairy

Gabriel_H wrote: »

While Steam stats are not the be all and end all, the numbers shown for NW seem to paint a pretty clear story:



Players are showing up when new content drops, complete it quickly, then stop playing for another year. This is an indicator of a game that doesn't hold attention on a monthly basis.

While ESOs numbers are down in recent years, they are at least not spiking over 12 months like NW. Those NW players are likely already playing ESO on a consistent basis, merely taking a break from ESO when new content drops in NW.

This is me...ESO has nothing for me but heartache these days. NW was a great game to go to and have some real fun. Now that's gone and tbh...ill come back to eso to maybe do a thing or two but my gaming habit just took a major blow.

SerafinaWaterstar

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I was playing New World before this announcement and several players were posting in that game's zone chat about ESO. They had some criticisms of this game that they had high hopes NW would do better and they were all very excited about that game's latest expansion.

ESO would be wise to tease the direction this game is going sooner rather than later because there was definitely a lot of crossover players in NW from what I saw.

I'd heard a lot of good things about NW. Sadly it seems the player numbers weren't consistent enough to keep upper management happy.

While ESO has lost players, it's monthly numbers over 12 months don't spike. That's predictable revenue from ESO+ subs, and crown purchases, as well as an indicator of how many will pay for new content.

There are always doomsayers on the forum about ESO is dying, but from a financial point of view, it is still profitable and predictably so. NW did not have that predictability meaning any decision to invest in more content would have that in mind.

Use it or lose it.

I'd argue that the reason ESO numbers don't spike like they used to is that a major chunk of the endgame players (who come to farm new gear each expansion) have quit and most of those remaining are casuals who log in to chill for an hour or two. These are players who log for the dailies and some dungeon runs before logging off.

Why is logging in for an hour or two to chill ‘casual’? What is wrong with that?
Many I know log in after work for 2-3 hours to play - vet trials, vet dungeons, fun with guild, housing - many different things.
And as they work, they have the money to spend.

And again, what exactly is ‘endgame’? Vet trials? Hard modes & trifectas? Why are they so precious?

SneaK

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I was playing New World before this announcement and several players were posting in that game's zone chat about ESO. They had some criticisms of this game that they had high hopes NW would do better and they were all very excited about that game's latest expansion.

ESO would be wise to tease the direction this game is going sooner rather than later because there was definitely a lot of crossover players in NW from what I saw.

I'd heard a lot of good things about NW. Sadly it seems the player numbers weren't consistent enough to keep upper management happy.

While ESO has lost players, it's monthly numbers over 12 months don't spike. That's predictable revenue from ESO+ subs, and crown purchases, as well as an indicator of how many will pay for new content.

There are always doomsayers on the forum about ESO is dying, but from a financial point of view, it is still profitable and predictably so. NW did not have that predictability meaning any decision to invest in more content would have that in mind.

Use it or lose it.

I'd argue that the reason ESO numbers don't spike like they used to is that a major chunk of the endgame players (who come to farm new gear each expansion) have quit and most of those remaining are casuals who log in to chill for an hour or two. These are players who log for the dailies and some dungeon runs before logging off.

Why is logging in for an hour or two to chill ‘casual’? What is wrong with that?
Many I know log in after work for 2-3 hours to play - vet trials, vet dungeons, fun with guild, housing - many different things.
And as they work, they have the money to spend.

And again, what exactly is ‘endgame’? Vet trials? Hard modes & trifectas? Why are they so precious?

💯
Especially in MMO’s.
I only get a few hours a day now to play, but historically I’ve played this game for 1000’s of hours and when I log in I’m not viewing anything I do as “casual”.

To me it’s the opposite of what this user keeps suggesting. Consistency is because MMO fans are still finding ways to get lost in ESO as an MMO, not casually just logging in and “chilling”.

Destai

I'm excited for any people coming over from NW. I tried NW and I didn't care for its fashion system. This game is leagues ahead in that regard.

SkaiFaith

spartaxoxo wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I was playing New World before this announcement and several players were posting in that game's zone chat about ESO. They had some criticisms of this game that they had high hopes NW would do better and they were all very excited about that game's latest expansion.

ESO would be wise to tease the direction this game is going sooner rather than later because there was definitely a lot of crossover players in NW from what I saw.

I'd heard a lot of good things about NW. Sadly it seems the player numbers weren't consistent enough to keep upper management happy.

While ESO has lost players, it's monthly numbers over 12 months don't spike. That's predictable revenue from ESO+ subs, and crown purchases, as well as an indicator of how many will pay for new content.

There are always doomsayers on the forum about ESO is dying, but from a financial point of view, it is still profitable and predictably so. NW did not have that predictability meaning any decision to invest in more content would have that in mind.

Use it or lose it.

NW is shutting down because Amazon cut 14,000 jobs in a move to focus more into AI investments.

Sound familiar?

I remember when people argued me up and down that it wasn't about AI for Microsoft and now Amazon is doing the same. I suspect the video game industry will see more of this in the coming years, unfortunately.

Also, I just saw an interview to Nadella in which he talked about Xbox. He said something like "the competitor of Microsoft gaming is not Sony nor Nintendo, IT'S TIKTOK" - the words were not exactly these but this was clearly the message.

Well, this scares me A LOT about what our beloved gaming could become...

Gabriel_H

DenverRalphy wrote: »

NW is shutting down because Amazon cut 14,000 jobs in a move to focus more into AI investments.

Sound familiar?

They are cutting jobs becuase the finances weren't viable. ESO's job cuts were for their new MMO that was shelved.

Gabriel_H

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

I'd argue that the reason ESO numbers don't spike like they used to is that a major chunk of the endgame players (who come to farm new gear each expansion) have quit and most of those remaining are casuals who log in to chill for an hour or two. These are players who log for the dailies and some dungeon runs before logging off.

Irrelevent to the finances. As long as they are logging in the money flows.

DenverRalphy

Gabriel_H wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

NW is shutting down because Amazon cut 14,000 jobs in a move to focus more into AI investments.

Sound familiar?

They are cutting jobs becuase the finances weren't viable. ESO's job cuts were for their new MMO that was shelved.

Where are you getting your information from? Because from all accounts I've seen, it had nothing to do with the finances nor their financial situation at all. Which is why it was a complete and total surprise to nearly everyone in the industry when it happened.

Gabriel_H

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

NW is shutting down because Amazon cut 14,000 jobs in a move to focus more into AI investments.

Sound familiar?

They are cutting jobs becuase the finances weren't viable. ESO's job cuts were for their new MMO that was shelved.

Where are you getting your information from? Because from all accounts I've seen, it had nothing to do with the finances nor their financial situation at all. Which is why it was a complete and total surprise to nearly everyone in the industry when it happened.

Becasue that is how for-profit companies operate. If the game was making a tonne of money for Amazon, and not only consistently but also predictably, it would not have been put in maintenance mode.

If there is a huge outcry from the player base, and people start logging on more consistently, Amazon may reverse their decision, but that seems unlikely at this point.

TLDR: Welcome to Capitalism

Edit: Beth Galetti, Senior Vice President of People Experience and Technology at Amazon, said:

"Some may ask why we’re reducing roles when the company is performing well. Across our businesses, we're delivering great customer experiences every day, innovating at a rapid rate, and producing strong business results [Money]. What we need to remember is that the world is changing quickly [Less Money]. This generation of AI is the most transformative technology we’ve seen since the Internet [Betting money], and it's enabling companies to innovate much faster than ever before (in existing market segments and altogether new ones) [Making us more money]. We’re convinced that we need to be organized more leanly [Money], with fewer layers and more ownership [Money], to move as quickly as possible for our customers and business."

Bold is mine obvs.

DenverRalphy

Gabriel_H wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

NW is shutting down because Amazon cut 14,000 jobs in a move to focus more into AI investments.

Sound familiar?

They are cutting jobs becuase the finances weren't viable. ESO's job cuts were for their new MMO that was shelved.

Where are you getting your information from? Because from all accounts I've seen, it had nothing to do with the finances nor their financial situation at all. Which is why it was a complete and total surprise to nearly everyone in the industry when it happened.

Becasue that is how for-profit companies operate. If the game was making a tonne of money for Amazon, and not only consistently but also predictably, it would not have been put in maintenance mode.

If there is a huge outcry from the player base, and people start logging on more consistently, Amazon may reverse their decision, but that seems unlikely at this point.

TLDR: Welcome to Capitalism

Did you even play NW? The game was booming at the time of the announcement. The biggest complaint was the queue times to get in to play the game. The season's premium track was selling like hotcakes. Every indicator showed that the game was on the rise. Each interval between spikes plateaued higher than the previous interval over the past year.

Honest question... how involved were you with the game itself? Or are you basing your statemets on speculation because 'that's how for profit comanies operate'?

Radiate77

Destai wrote: »

I'm excited for any people coming over from NW. I tried NW and I didn't care for its fashion system. This game is leagues ahead in that regard.

I wish ESO would take the many lessons in PvP that New World taught us. Factional flag PvP is incredible fun, and New World was it for console.

3v3 Elimination only Arena, even team matchmade Outpost Rush, 20v20 CTF, open world PvP reputation races… it’s so sad to think this is all going away. 💔