End game content

Borrack

This game has tons of content but there doesn’t seem to be a lot of reasons to do a lot of it other than for the sake of doing it. There’s so many trials and dungeons but if you don’t want any of the sets out of them, there isn’t much of a reason to do other than just wanting too. Would be pretty cool if maybe there were high level food/drink buffs where you could only get the ingredients inside of trials or something. Make them bound as well that way you’ll have motivation to do the content. Maybe even special upgrade materials for gear that you can only get in trials as well. Anybody else feel this way?

Gabriel_H

People do them for fun.
Powercreep is bad enough without adding to the problem.
There are achievements and bragging rights by doing them.

Borrack

Yeah I mean, that’s pretty much my point. It’s an RPG so without some sort of gain, the content just feels a bit pointless. Adding something like another tier of food/drink buff isn’t going to make such a big difference to where you have to have it in order to be competitive but at least it’s some sort of reason to do the content

alakeyfox

Hate to break it to you, but there's kinda no reason to play video games other than just to play it.

I also feel like most trials have at least 1 set that people want, so in that regard I think we are already having it quite good.

Gabriel_H

Borrack wrote: »

Yeah I mean, that’s pretty much my point. It’s an RPG so without some sort of gain, the content just feels a bit pointless. Adding something like another tier of food/drink buff isn’t going to make such a big difference to where you have to have it in order to be competitive but at least it’s some sort of reason to do the content

It's an ongoing RPG. Once you've got everything you want out of the dungeon you move on to the newer content.

smallhammer

Many, like me, have little or no interest in doing trials and dungeons. For me mainly, because of toxic elitist players, who take away the fun of it.

However I do see your point. Maybe some cool housing-things? Pets? Outfits?

StihlReign

Borrack wrote: »

This game has tons of content but there doesn’t seem to be a lot of reasons to do a lot of it other than for the sake of doing it. There’s so many trials and dungeons but if you don’t want any of the sets out of them, there isn’t much of a reason to do other than just wanting too. Would be pretty cool if maybe there were high level food/drink buffs where you could only get the ingredients inside of trials or something. Make them bound as well that way you’ll have motivation to do the content. Maybe even special upgrade materials for gear that you can only get in trials as well. Anybody else feel this way?

Sounds good, unbound only though. High level, rare, mined unique items - unbound. Awesome. Sounds great for the economy, master crafters and end-game.

AcadianPaladin

Better idea is to make sure content is fun and enjoyable. Locking things behind any content simply breaks the 'play how you want' concept that ESO claims.

Allowing those who enjoy a particular content to sell their spoils to those who do not, encourages those who enjoy the content to do it regularly while allowing those who hate that particular content to focus on the content they do enjoy.

SolarRune

smallhammer wrote: »

Many, like me, have little or no interest in doing trials and dungeons. For me mainly, because of toxic elitist players, who take away the fun of it.

However I do see your point. Maybe some cool housing-things? Pets? Outfits?

That's such a shame, there are many, many guilds out there that do not gatekeep trials in this way. But there is lots of gatekeeping in group finder. There is absolutely no reason why normal and vet trials can't be run as long as things are sensible (like don't have healer sets on as a DD) and you have an experienced lead who can tailor the run to what the group is capable of.

Admittedly tends to be a little different with HM and higher content but I think that's to be expected, as the lead will make up a composition of what they are wanting to achieve with the group.

Lucasl402

U35 pretty much killed the PvE endgame. Vengeance is going to kill PvP. Two team BG's killed BG's.

Seems all that's really left is casual overland questing.

Gabriel_H

Lucasl402 wrote: »

U35 pretty much killed the PvE endgame.

U35 lowered healing and damage output and people claim it killed PvE endgame.
Healing and damage output is currently at an all time high.

Sylosi

Lucasl402 wrote: »

U35 pretty much killed the PvE endgame. Vengeance is going to kill PvP. Two team BG's killed BG's.

Seems all that's really left is casual overland questing.

Unless one's standards are very low, then Cyrodiil has been dead a long time, there is nothing meaningful left for Vengeance to kill.

And BGs were never even really alive, hence even years ago when people wanted separate queues for this or that, the devs were reluctant to split the BG playerbase further because the BG playerbase was already small (there is a reason PvP games, sports, etc don't go with three teams, it is fundamentally flawed, so produces absolute trash PvP).

SolarRune

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

U35 pretty much killed the PvE endgame.

U35 lowered healing and damage output and people claim it killed PvE endgame.
Healing and damage output is currently at an all time high.

Disagree on the healing output. Whilst it has crept back up to near the levels of u34, if you look at things like vKA HM on eso logs there was still higher HPS in u34 compared to the most recent update. But this probably points to there being no real change in healer setups since then either!

Lucasl402

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

U35 pretty much killed the PvE endgame.

U35 lowered healing and damage output and people claim it killed PvE endgame.
Healing and damage output is currently at an all time high.

U35 did in fact kill end game PvE for the most part. NEFAS did a great video on it.

Subclassing has mixed things up a bit, but subclassing didn't introduce anything new to the game. It just made it so we can mix and match different class skill lines.

Potrimpo

Lucasl402 wrote: »

U35 pretty much killed the PvE endgame. Vengeance is going to kill PvP. Two team BG's killed BG's.

Seems all that's really left is casual overland questing.

U35 destroyed PVE. PVP has been destroyed the whole time, if we believe the pvp (forum) players.

But we have a lively forum community that has been accompanying death for a few years now.

No one is playing (they say anyway) but the critics know what's going on. They don't play, but they know what's up.

Or are they playing in secret? Is the game not so bad after all?

We don't know. It´s a secret.

Soarora

A suggestion I’ve heard occasionally is giving every trial a low chance polymorph like Asylum Sanctorium has. This both introduces farm runs for a new reason as well as gives new earnable rewards. As for dungeons, our replayability aside from enjoyment are motifs (no one likes that motifs take months to release btw zos…), masks, and pledges. I will continue to beg for challenger rewards, though, and think they should be even added retrospectively to get more people to do challengers.

Borrack

For PvE, they really need to introduce something that can incentivizes completing the end game content such as vet trials. For PvP, they really should come up with some more in depth BG modes. Imagine the BGs having some sort of linear progression for an attacking team vs a defending teams - imagine something like Chivalry 2 but ESO style, it could be so much fun

LunaFlora

no thanks.

the Dwarven Construct Repair Parts from Halls of Fabrication do not motivate me to run the trial even though i do want to be able to craft the dwarven target dummies

Orbital78

Most of them have fluff locked behind them. One of my favorite new additions was the challenger (I think) for Exiled Redoubt's green elemental wall to synergize with my arcanist. Many of them have skins and such too which are often easier to unlock.

guarstompemoji

Endgame is a fun challenge. I never thought I'd do endgame, but once you start learning how ESO skills work and sets work, it's fun and musical.

There's the camaraderie, too. Pre u35, there were so many general trials guilds; you could hop in any day of the week and just run and play with others. It was TEAM PLAY and it was exciting! Yeah!

Then, as you practiced, you'd try harder modes. Yes, a person needs to be able to heal so much to get their team through Falgraven HM and that's exciting. It's something you build towards and achieve.

The recent trial, the most frequent complaint I've heard is that there are too many add pulls between these incredible boss fights. I hear the same thing about IA. The boss fights are fun. They're a team challenge. The add pulls add flavor and are needed, but they're not the meat of it.

ESO has a fun combat system; unfortunately, its UI doesn't explain it or reveal it. This makes it hard on new players. The crashing of trial guilds and groups after u35 also makes it difficult. Despite all of the teaching videos out there, there's so, so fewer places to just "drop in and go." There are fewer places to learn, and asking the few players remaining TO teach is...well. That's hard on everyone. It's incredibly hard.

But, why run trials anyway?

Trials are group content; it's about gaming together and as you get to harder difficulties, seeing how far you CAN go. If that's your thing, it's incredibly fun.

Just like housing mains like to see how far they can push a design, or develop one. Different interests, and MMOs are Big Tent Games. It's why they survive, and people play them consistently instead of tossing them after a few days.

One of the biggest things ESO could do to even things out would be to hire a usability expert, to make just subtle adjustments to the UI to make the game mechanics more apparent, yet not in-your-face. A trained usability expert can do that. 1000%. The other is to realize how much players love this game, and to listen more often. People get upset BECAUSE they love the game.

beer781993

Don't know what you're talking about. I play dungeons and trials to learn them, prog the hardmode and then do the trifecta for a title and a mount. Plus I collect achievements.

That's more then enough reason. You could argue that the mounts are badly designed with few animations but it's not pointless to play.

What's pointless is the easy boring overworld content and the bad writhing wall event.

Major_Mangle

What made me move away from endgame PvE were mainly 2 things:

* The "copy + paste" design
Ever since Elsweyr every trial more or less feels the same (with exception of the mini trials which honestly grew on me the last few years). 3 bosses, 3 hard modes but with a different color scheme doesn't create any hype for me, especially when ZOS keeps recycling mechanics from older content (like why does every fight need a "backyard" mechanic?). I thought ZOS went in somewhat the right direction with lucent citadel with the runback where you've to juggle the artifact within your team, but haven't seen anything interesting mechanic wise since then.

Same goes for the DLC dungeons where aside from maybe the last boss, the rest of the dungeon is not that interesting.

* Trifectas aren't encouraging design
I've nothing against the concept that endgame content should be challenging, but I vomit on the design of Trifectas as the way of doing it. Spending (wasting) 30-40 minutes of your time just for someone to have a small slip up, hence throwing the achievement, is nothing but discouraging and from my personal experience it's what causes prog groups to disband eventually. I can only speak for myself but I loath on games or design choices that doesn't value/respect my time. It's ok for mmos/arpgs etc to have time sinks, which I'm not against as long as I don't feel like it only exist to waste my time or "isn't worth the trouble".

Trifectas for me falls into the category of this, and I personally would see zos move away from trifectas and instead add another difficulty tier (where just completing it gives you the best rewards), kinda similar to how WoW does it with its mythical tiers.

Ulvich

I totally agree. This game seriously lacks End Game… anything.
I have been inside every dungeon and delve. I have also beaten every world boss. As for trials… I got what I need. No real point in going after the rest. And as you can tell by my signature I have done almost every major achievement. And obviously what I have listed there is not all of them.
I have three accounts with a total of 27 toons. I created the others to play in Cyrodiil on the other factions, but now I don’t do that as much.
My point is this… I get seriously bored farming these camps, but I stick with it hoping something new and exciting emerges.
This “wall” is just taking way too long to bring down. Maybe ZoS wants to make sure everyone has a chance to participle. Who knows?
This game has a lot to offer if you are new, but I have been here for many, many years.
What do others do once they reach a point where they have done so much?

twisttop138

Idk man. I get the complaint. I really do. I wish there were cool paintings and other stuff that was bound for housing beyond a bust. Also cool stuff that's unbound for folks that like to sell stuff. More incentive. For myself, I love nothing more then getting together with my friends for 2 hours of laughs, fun and trials. I raid most weeknights. Some nights it's vet training trials for the social guild. We have kids and grandmas and in-between learning mechs and having fun. A couple nights it's my regular raid team (now on hiatus until the next trial is announced, which may be never) and a prog night. I do it for the love of the game. Im mostly sticker booked so more cool rewards would be nice, especially for us mid tier raiders who may not be at the level of vSE hm trifecta to get the ram ya know. The whole game, really, could use a reward shake up but I don't think it'll happen.