Beam does too much

percept

I love surprise attack and rapid strikes. I love melee but I hate ranged and spells. That's ok because I'm a single target powerhouse. Except beam does more single target damage than my spammable, while also being a massive aoe.

I don't get it. It clearly does too much. The only other option is jabs, but it looks and feels horrible.

Idk man something needs to change

BretonMage

I don't know about Nightblade, but Sorcerer needs a spammable that's as effective as the Flail/Beam pair.

moderatelyfatman

BretonMage wrote: »

I don't know about Nightblade, but Sorcerer needs a spammable that's as effective as the Flail/Beam pair.

Both skills do similar damage but one of these skills:
1. Is an AOE
2. Immobillizes the enemy
3. Heals the caster
4. Gives you a 5% damage buff
5. Generates crux for your main damage dealing ability.

The other skills does a similar amount of damage and gives:
1. 1k armor reduction on the target
2. 10% skill cost reduction on next skill.

Sounds balanced to me.

freespirit

As someone who embraces Templars, I haven't even considereed adding the Arrcanist beam to my Templar skill set.

I use jabs a lot, for me it is way easier to use than that beam and when buried neck deep in mobs I barely notice what it looks like, plus there is no need to generate crux for extra damage! 🙂

Edit:- To add, I find the beam clunky and horrible to use, plus I hate it's animation, each to their own I suppose!

BretonMage

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

I don't know about Nightblade, but Sorcerer needs a spammable that's as effective as the Flail/Beam pair.

Both skills do similar damage but one of these skills:
1. Is an AOE
2. Immobillizes the enemy
3. Heals the caster
4. Gives you a 5% damage buff
5. Generates crux for your main damage dealing ability.

The other skills does a similar amount of damage and gives:
1. 1k armor reduction on the target
2. 10% skill cost reduction on next skill.

Sounds balanced to me.

Yup, AOE and heal on Flail, as well as the AOE and shield on Fatecarver.

Faulgor

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

I don't know about Nightblade, but Sorcerer needs a spammable that's as effective as the Flail/Beam pair.

Both skills do similar damage but one of these skills:
1. Is an AOE
2. Immobillizes the enemy
3. Heals the caster
4. Gives you a 5% damage buff
5. Generates crux for your main damage dealing ability.

The other skills does a similar amount of damage and gives:
1. 1k armor reduction on the target
2. 10% skill cost reduction on next skill.

Sounds balanced to me.

But Flail costs much more! And has a cast time! So let's call it even? /s

So what would be the best way to adjust Fatecarver? Just lowering the damage? I think tinkering with the functional side might throw the whole class into an identity crisis, although if we go that route I think the best option is to drastically decrease the range.
Like, jabs range.
Enemies should still be able to read the prin in the book you are beaming them with.

RebornV3x

How about we buff other skills so there's more variety

Treeshka

They should add or rework some of the skills in the classes so they can add area damage options for classes. Some classes do not have anything for this purpose. Yes we can subclass into Arcanist beam but why not add more options?

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Why not just make it so Fatecarver cannot deal critical damage like Zaan's another beam that cannot deal critical damage.

Koshka

Treeshka wrote: »

They should add or rework some of the skills in the classes so they can add area damage options for classes. Some classes do not have anything for this purpose. Yes we can subclass into Arcanist beam but why not add more options?

Yeah. Not to mention that other class spammables have been continuously nerfed in the past.
I am not very fond of beamer playstyle, but I think that instead of nerfing everything into grey homogenous slop, they should make other class spammables actually useful. The new content favors aoe dps, so all classes should be given these options instead of being forced to subclass arc.

ApoAlaia

Treeshka wrote: »

They should add or rework some of the skills in the classes so they can add area damage options for classes. Some classes do not have anything for this purpose. Yes we can subclass into Arcanist beam but why not add more options?

This.

Rework spammables so they all have something desirable. For instance make some into dots so they can proc passives like Rapid Rot (which fatecarver was changed to direct damage as to not proc it).

Change the mechanical behavior so some do damage in a 6/8M radius cone (or a half moon) in front of the 'caster' rather than a line while others remain ST focused.

Instead of segregating the skill lines by 'intended use' like Arcanist give each skill line desirable skills for each (of the intended uses) thus making room for more 'spammables' to choose from.

Remove 'boring' passives (like 'make x skill last y seconds longer'), put enticing stuff there that makes the skill line appealing.

In summary, look at the matter as 'how we can have skills that synergize pleasingly in all three ranges (short, medium, long) of engagement and give a good balance of types of damage in a rotation with timers that are not constantly at odds with each other'.

There are so many ways to look at this conundrum besides the oh so popular 'I don't like this for x, y or z reason so I don't want you to have access to it'.

Jordan_Black

percept wrote: »

I love surprise attack and rapid strikes. I love melee but I hate ranged and spells. That's ok because I'm a single target powerhouse. Except beam does more single target damage than my spammable, while also being a massive aoe.

I don't get it. It clearly does too much. The only other option is jabs, but it looks and feels horrible.

Idk man something needs to change

Arcanist beam can stay $EZmode but shouldn't be top tier - if they want it to be the new oakensoul, great, but it shouldn't be both the new oakensoul and mandatory meta skill for every dps class.

SkaiFaith

freespirit wrote: »

As someone who embraces Templars, I haven't even considereed adding the Arrcanist beam to my Templar skill set.

I use jabs a lot, for me it is way easier to use than that beam and when buried neck deep in mobs I barely notice what it looks like, plus there is no need to generate crux for extra damage! 🙂

Edit:- To add, I find the beam clunky and horrible to use, plus I hate it's animation, each to their own I suppose!

Trust me, I really hate to be the one to say this, but PLEASE don't give ideas - you know jabs/sweeps is next in line after beam to be called for a nerf from those who enjoy nerfs...

fizl101

SkaiFaith wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

As someone who embraces Templars, I haven't even considereed adding the Arrcanist beam to my Templar skill set.

I use jabs a lot, for me it is way easier to use than that beam and when buried neck deep in mobs I barely notice what it looks like, plus there is no need to generate crux for extra damage! 🙂

Edit:- To add, I find the beam clunky and horrible to use, plus I hate it's animation, each to their own I suppose!

Trust me, I really hate to be the one to say this, but PLEASE don't give ideas - you know jabs/sweeps is next in line after beam to be called for a nerf from those who enjoy nerfs...

Jabs got it first, it doesnt need another!

Kendaric

.

SkaiFaith wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

As someone who embraces Templars, I haven't even considereed adding the Arrcanist beam to my Templar skill set.

I use jabs a lot, for me it is way easier to use than that beam and when buried neck deep in mobs I barely notice what it looks like, plus there is no need to generate crux for extra damage! 🙂

Edit:- To add, I find the beam clunky and horrible to use, plus I hate it's animation, each to their own I suppose!

Trust me, I really hate to be the one to say this, but PLEASE don't give ideas - you know jabs/sweeps is next in line after beam to be called for a nerf from those who enjoy nerfs...

Unlike the Arcanist beam, jabs isn't overpowered.

Arcanist needs to be looked at and reworked to be more line with previous classes. And while we're at it, make the horrid neon green more pale to better fit with ESO's visuals and be easier on our eyes.

moderatelyfatman

Faulgor wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

I don't know about Nightblade, but Sorcerer needs a spammable that's as effective as the Flail/Beam pair.

Both skills do similar damage but one of these skills:
1. Is an AOE
2. Immobillizes the enemy
3. Heals the caster
4. Gives you a 5% damage buff
5. Generates crux for your main damage dealing ability.

The other skills does a similar amount of damage and gives:
1. 1k armor reduction on the target
2. 10% skill cost reduction on next skill.

Sounds balanced to me.

But Flail costs much more! And has a cast time! So let's call it even? /s

So what would be the best way to adjust Fatecarver? Just lowering the damage? I think tinkering with the functional side might throw the whole class into an identity crisis, although if we go that route I think the best option is to drastically decrease the range.
Like, jabs range.
Enemies should still be able to read the prin in the book you are beaming them with.

The single target beam damage isn't top tier, it's the fact that it cuts through everything.

A way to balance it isn't to nerf the damage but get rid of the penetration effect. Instead, Fatecarver should cleave in a 5m radius around the first target it hits (much like a lightning staff).

This will get rid of some of the cheese is areas such as Cloudrest portals where they can simultaneously hit two crystals at once or Azureblight bomb in Dreadsail Reef. It will still be the top dps class but at least it might give other classes a chance.

ApoAlaia

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

I don't know about Nightblade, but Sorcerer needs a spammable that's as effective as the Flail/Beam pair.

Both skills do similar damage but one of these skills:
1. Is an AOE
2. Immobillizes the enemy
3. Heals the caster
4. Gives you a 5% damage buff
5. Generates crux for your main damage dealing ability.

The other skills does a similar amount of damage and gives:
1. 1k armor reduction on the target
2. 10% skill cost reduction on next skill.

Sounds balanced to me.

But Flail costs much more! And has a cast time! So let's call it even? /s

So what would be the best way to adjust Fatecarver? Just lowering the damage? I think tinkering with the functional side might throw the whole class into an identity crisis, although if we go that route I think the best option is to drastically decrease the range.
Like, jabs range.
Enemies should still be able to read the prin in the book you are beaming them with.

The single target beam damage isn't top tier, it's the fact that it cuts through everything.

A way to balance it isn't to nerf the damage but get rid of the penetration effect. Instead, Fatecarver should cleave in a 5m radius around the first target it hits (much like a lightning staff).

This will get rid of some of the cheese is areas such as Cloudrest portals where they can simultaneously hit two crystals at once or Azureblight bomb in Dreadsail Reef. It will still be the top dps class but at least it might give other classes a chance.

Fatecarver is direct damage and Azureblight procs off DoTs.

Care to explain this 'Azureblight bomb' interaction? very curious.

SerafinaWaterstar

Do you mean beam (templar) or ‘read the book’ (arc)?

Whichever, please stop asking for nerfs. It’s tedious. Why not ask for other skills to be buffed instead?

percept

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Do you mean beam (templar) or ‘read the book’ (arc)?

Whichever, please stop asking for nerfs. It’s tedious. Why not ask for other skills to be buffed instead?

I was taking about the arcanist beam. I don't like nerfs tbh, but whatever they gotta do to make other options more appealing and competitive is fine with me

Orbital78

percept wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Do you mean beam (templar) or ‘read the book’ (arc)?

Whichever, please stop asking for nerfs. It’s tedious. Why not ask for other skills to be buffed instead?

I was taking about the arcanist beam. I don't like nerfs tbh, but whatever they gotta do to make other options more appealing and competitive is fine with me

Many high end players aren't even using the beam, they are using the flail consumer. Beam builds are just hard to mess up, so it is a safe bet to fill DD with those if unsure of who you will get.

Sorc's dark magic line is pretty lacking in general besides PVP negates, some buffs to frags would be nice. Dawns Wrath DD buffs would be great too. If people are not using it, give them a reason to consider using it.

valenwood_vegan

Totally hope they look at the skills people *don't* want to use, and how to make those more useful and most of all, fun. Beam probably needs an adjustment, but it should not be nerfed into uselessness (which will just make everyone move to the next best thing, till that's nerfed). Even before beam was a thing, that race to the bottom had already left many of our old classes gutted and unfun - people should be excited about choosing which skills to slot because there are multiple options that look fun and useful. Instead, it sometimes feels like this painful process of "which of these skills is least bad". (More painful, perhaps, for those who remember them in their former glory lol).

Anyway, hope people are giving them this feedback on the class survey too. Remember that we're looking at like Feb / March for any balance changes at this point, and these posts get buried pretty quickly and will be long gone by then.

Avran_Sylt

Treeshka wrote: »

They should add or rework some of the skills in the classes so they can add area damage options for classes. Some classes do not have anything for this purpose. Yes we can subclass into Arcanist beam but why not add more options?

Yesssss, let me mark multiple enemies with Mark Target as a Nightblade and mirror Single target damage between them all!

mdjessup4906

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

They should add or rework some of the skills in the classes so they can add area damage options for classes. Some classes do not have anything for this purpose. Yes we can subclass into Arcanist beam but why not add more options?

This.

Rework spammables so they all have something desirable. For instance make some into dots so they can proc passives like Rapid Rot (which fatecarver was changed to direct damage as to not proc it).

Change the mechanical behavior so some do damage in a 6/8M radius cone (or a half moon) in front of the 'caster' rather than a line while others remain ST focused.

Instead of segregating the skill lines by 'intended use' like Arcanist give each skill line desirable skills for each (of the intended uses) thus making room for more 'spammables' to choose from.

Remove 'boring' passives (like 'make x skill last y seconds longer'), put enticing stuff there that makes the skill line appealing.

In summary, look at the matter as 'how we can have skills that synergize pleasingly in all three ranges (short, medium, long) of engagement and give a good balance of types of damage in a rotation with timers that are not constantly at odds with each other'.

There are so many ways to look at this conundrum besides the oh so popular 'I don't like this for x, y or z reason so I don't want you to have access to it'.

This X10000000

Yall screaming nerf nerf nerf is just like the devs have been doing with [insert your fav formerly cleave skill here] Yes, making arc beam as abysmally unplayable as everything else is totally the right call /s See youall in vOC hm. As a tank or healer because screw that.

Hapexamendios

If you want a nerf, go buy a Hasbro product.

Tariq9898

Arc Beam solves all your problems.

Need single target damage? Beam.
Need AOE damage? Beam.
Need to heal? Beam.
Need a shield to take more hits? Beam.
Need to fight at a safe distance? Beam.
Need all the above? Beam.

When in doubt, just beam. Nothing a bunch of beams won’t solve.

What makes beam OP is not just the damage, but the utilities it grants and the ease of combat it provides with the gameplay flow and interaction.

Name one spammable that satisfies all these categories. I can’t think of any! 😭😫

percept

Tariq9898 wrote: »

Arc Beam solves all your problems.

Need single target damage? Beam.
Need AOE damage? Beam.
Need to heal? Beam.
Need a shield to take more hits? Beam.
Need to fight at a safe distance? Beam.
Need all the above? Beam.

When in doubt, just beam. Nothing a bunch of beams won’t solve.

Name one spammable that satisfies all these categories. I can’t think of any! 😭😫

I think it would be annoying still, but a non issue really, if beam wasn't also doing absurd damage

spartaxoxo

I think they need to undo the awful u35 aoe nerfs before touching beam, personally.

Kusto

I dont understand how the devs don't see arcanists as a problem. They're killing their own game by doing nothing about it. Its ridiculous how much op this class is compared to others. If you wanna be competitive then you have to use it. They may aswell rename the game to Elder Arcanist Online.

SkaiFaith

Beam damage is "OP" only with 3 crux.
I'm sure many players enjoy Beam as a play style without even building crux, and with 0 crux it is weaker than other skills.
I would buff the base damage because "0 crux = useless skill" right now, and if anything I would nerf the bonus given by crux.
That's the only thing I would change.

For those who say Beam is OP in PvP, and know I said I rarely participate in PvP... I duel, and I dueled many arcanists, and I don't find them OP. If you stay close to the arcanist and constantly go to its back, its Beam means its death.
I have an arcanist crux builder myself for BattleGrounds and it's just to give support, I am always low on the Kills list.

If an arcanist always beat you in PvP - it's a skill matter; it's a good player, just that.
For PvE - see first paragraph.

GloatingSwine

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Beam damage is "OP" only with 3 crux.
I'm sure many players enjoy Beam as a play style without even building crux, and with 0 crux it is weaker than other skills.
I would buff the base damage because "0 crux = useless skill" right now, and if anything I would nerf the bonus given by crux.
That's the only thing I would change.

Thing is, the way you get crux on a beam build has all the advantages of beam, it's a large direct damage AoE that heals you when you use it and also increases your damage for 20 seconds.

ApoAlaia

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think they need to undo the awful u35 aoe nerfs before touching beam, personally.

Yeah, just nerfing the beam at this point would have the knock-on effect of making certain 'modern' trifectas harder to achieve (compared to those who got them with the availability of beam in its various iterations - beam/flail has been adjusted a number of times - or got them pre-U35).

The change to direct damage on the beam, endless stream of nerfschanges to Azureblight and the most recent u-turn on the power granted by certain skills that could be subclassed already did that (set prog groups back every single patch), we don't need more of that.

Furthermore it goes against the grain; the latest trial should be the most difficult to prog, previous ones should get easier as the game progresses, not harder.

The fact that none of this is mentioned in the 'nerf beam' posts tells me that those asking for nerfs for are either not progging themselves hence not caring one bit about deleterious effects on other groups of players that currently are (it doesn't even enter their thought process) or they have already finished progging and feel like trials 'naturally' getting easier as the game progresses cheapens their achievements and they don't like that.

They just see something that they perceive as 'unfair' for one reason or another and they want it gone, now, whoever else it is affected be damned.

No consideration for the mechanical implications either, just take it away, now.