There is someone selling other peoples house builds for tens and hundreds of millions of gold.

Vraedlich

I had someone visit my house and tell me I could "make millions" selling house builds, which obviously itself sounds like a scam.
So they gave me a tour of their builds and they seemed pretty good.
They claimed they had a lot of enemies in the housing community because they "accidentally" copy and pasted a build of someone elses work and sold it.
I told them, that is sad, but it's a risk when you share a house.
The game lets you just copy and paste entire builds of other people's homes with addons.
So anyway I was doing a dungeon and someone complimented me on my Viking themed character and similar styles, and I told them I had a meadhall too.
I invited them over and they asked if I'd "bought the build" because someone had shown them the *exact same hall* but undecorated, and tried to sell it to them for a lot of gold.
TBH I don't know if I'm flattered, but I spend quite a bit of time and gold and effort over years to get this place finally done, if it is done.
I would have prefered if they'd asked me or told me they were going to.
I've barely had any visitors and have literally 2 guestbook entries and 3 recommendations, so I'm surprised he would even try.

If someone tries to tell you this build though, please let me know, and know that it is stolen.

I don't think there are any rules or ways to protect players from this happening, so I don't think it's even technically an offence, but it's not cool.




. It's a bit sad really.

Vraedlich

sell* not tell.

Vraedlich

I dm'd the guy I suspected it was about it and he didn't reply at all which is unusual.

I don't want to actually include his name unless it was someone else but given how few people have visited, and how aggressively he tries to sell stuff, with his own discord, (he literally has cut and paste sales pitches and tried to sell his services to me twice, despite us already being in "friends" list), I am fairly certain.

Thumbless_Bot

Dont post names here. Open a ticket.

Vraedlich

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Dont post names here. Open a ticket.

The thing is I don't know if it is an offence of ANY kind besides moral, I just want to either find out who it is or prevent them making gold from my work as best I can.

LPapirius

If you read the ToS you will see that you do not own the homes you create in game. ZOS owns everything. They own all your toons and any content you may create in game, including your housing creations. We don't even own the crowns we buy with real money.

Vraedlich

LPapirius wrote: »

If you read the ToS you will see that you do not own the homes you create in game. ZOS owns everything. They own all your toons and any content you may create in game, including your housing creations. We don't even own the crowns we buy with real money.

Yeah. I realise that. I've seen enough game servers shut down to understand that. But wild that someone else can just copy and paste and profit.

Ah well.

CameraBeardThePirate

I'm gonna be real, I don't really see a problem with this.

Yah, I get that people spend lots of time making houses, but at the end of the day, if you don't want people stealing your ideas, don't let randoms into your home?

valenwood_vegan

Lol pretty sure I know who this is about. It's a shame people do this, but it's not prohibited and as I think someone mentioned, we don't even have ownership of the stuff that we create in-game anyway.

Really the only way to prevent it is going to be to restrict who can visit one's house - I blacklist a couple people who are known to do this from visiting any of my houses lol... but of course they could just use another account, that's not foolproof.

For houses I intend to enter into a contest, I don't allow any visitors until contest time.

It would be nice if maybe in the future zos could include a type of visitor permission that doesn't give others access to furnishing information, or change the addon API so that addons can't access detailed information about *other* players homes (preventing the easy copying and pasting, at least).. but they have much bigger fish to fry and I doubt it's ever going to be a priority.

SilverBride

It may not be against the ToS but it's a pretty awful thing to do to someone. And I don't think there should be add-ons to help players do it.

I have a pretty good idea who this player is.

Lumenn

As someone who spends a LOT of time and effort on my builds I have a hard time understanding WHY someone would want an exact replica of someone ELSES house. Each is a personal interpretation of a theme/concept I'm "feeling" at the time. Why even have a house if it doesn't have your personal touch to it, much less pay a fortune for it? Boggles the mind.

Ilumia

That is just a mean thing to do.
The only right way to do it would be to ask permission and share some of the surplus gold (after mats and buys), with the creator - and most importantly, respect a no when they get it.
It's quite sad that you have to protect your builds for contests, but it does seem like it's good advice. If people steal builds to enter into contests, that is definitely malicious and should probably be a reportable offense.
Personally I agree with Lumenn, I mean if I enjoy a build a lot I'll just return to it either via help from the eht? addon, or I favorite it if it's a house I saw through the housing tours. I do not get the need to pay to own the same one.

MasterSpatula

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Dont post names here. Open a ticket.

I don't see how there's anything ZOS can do here. The only possible consequences for this behavior are social consequences, and ZOS's short-sighted naming and shaming prohibition prevents any social consequences. So Scot free our offender goes.

Djennku

If it's PCNA, yeah, we know him. He's notorious for it and has done more than just sell rip off builds for tens to hundreds of millions of gold, even doing a garbage job of it other people have to clean up after.

First encounter with the guy he tried to get me to craft millions of gold worth of furnishings for free, and made a stink about it when I wanted payment before I did so.

Ilumia

Djennku wrote: »

If it's PCNA, yeah, we know him. He's notorious for it and has done more than just sell rip off builds for tens to hundreds of millions of gold, even doing a garbage job of it other people have to clean up after.

First encounter with the guy he tried to get me to craft millions of gold worth of furnishings for free, and made a stink about it when I wanted payment before I did so.

That sounds like acting in very bad faith, and trying to scam people for gold. I don't know what - if any - action zos would take if people reported that behavior with chat screenshots as evidence, but I am guessing they're not keen on people behaving this way, so there might be a limit on how many times a person has to be reported for that type of behavior, before they actually take action.

Elvenheart

I know this is a different topic, but I just want to chime in and say I wish ZOS would recognize people’s creativity by using some of the wonderful houses people have built in the game when they create new areas, with the permission of the builder, of course, and some way of acknowledging where the designs came from in the building itself, like a plaque. The OP’s mead hall would be a great place to have in Winterhold, just sayin’ 😊

whitecrow

Lumenn wrote: »

As someone who spends a LOT of time and effort on my builds I have a hard time understanding WHY someone would want an exact replica of someone ELSES house. Each is a personal interpretation of a theme/concept I'm "feeling" at the time. Why even have a house if it doesn't have your personal touch to it, much less pay a fortune for it? Boggles the mind.

Maybe they don't want an exact replica but they like a lot of what you've done so to make it faster they copy it, and then later tweak it to their preferences.

Lumenn

whitecrow wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

As someone who spends a LOT of time and effort on my builds I have a hard time understanding WHY someone would want an exact replica of someone ELSES house. Each is a personal interpretation of a theme/concept I'm "feeling" at the time. Why even have a house if it doesn't have your personal touch to it, much less pay a fortune for it? Boggles the mind.

Maybe they don't want an exact replica but they like a lot of what you've done so to make it faster they copy it, and then later tweak it to their preferences.

Over the years I've had people ask how I built a structure, or if I minded them using a design(mostly for my glass tower or stair designs) I've even had a few copy my 2nd pyramid at my xan house flat out and I honestly don't care, but using some ideas and tweaking an exact copy, for MYSELF would defeat the whole purpose of building your own design. Maybe, MAYBE for a guild house I could understand if one didn't want a personal touch but even that should have its own personality. Again just my opinion. For reference I also dislike the cookie cutter housing communities you see pop up here in the U.S. every house the same and built in a month.

Put it this way, even if you only had the talent, supplies, time to build a mud hut, at least it's YOUR, mud hut and take pride in it.

Vulkunne

In fairness, anything you post online is subject to getting copied so what you have here is the next step.

Is it ethical, no. The copying of someone else's personal 'style' is intrusive and ultimately theft. Them not getting reimbursed for an original creation is also theft. Some of us have lent our voice to actions taken in the past (not by ZOS) but by other players, some of which are very prominent in the community, pillars of the community, if you will, and they do similar things which if the comparative action were to be done irl would result in breaking the law and civil penalties.

Issues like this have come up before, but in fairness, I don't see what ZOS can do about it. It's an interesting topic because when you think of a video game, we never expect to run into issues of this caliber. Yet, wrong has been done by these people and damage has been done. We'll never know how much so. Especially in this economy. Talk about 'victims'.

Pay attention because these folks are actual victims and no one seems to care about them.

Some things only Karma can and will recompense in time. But for now, the burden of proof for protecting our accounts and treasures first falls on us... sometimes ZOS can help but sometimes the only chance at justice or in protecting what matters to you rests solely on you. And that's sad but real. Case in point I never share my builds, ideas or open my house to anyone I don't know. Its sad you'll never be able to view some of the original work done for my homes, but it is what it is and it is still... mine.

SilverBride

Vulkunne wrote: »

Issues like this have come up before, but in fairness, I don't see what ZOS can do about it.

Disallow addons that can copy another player's build. This feature should only be usable by the home owner to recreate builds or parts of builds from and in their own houses.

Frayton

I know who you're talking about. Don't believe anything he says bc he's a liar. He always brags about making huge amounts of gold on his ugly house builds that no one actually buys, so he just resorted to stealing nice builds from other players.

He's underhanded like this in other parts of the game too. If you're selling something that he wants, he'll lowball then complain and make up conspiracy theories about people being against him if you don't agree to his lowball offers.

Remember folks, just like in real life, if a stranger randomly compliments you and asks you if you're into Viking themes, then they want you to come over to their house or to see your house, don't do it. Run away, fast and far.

SeaGtGruff

Report them for scamming, with full details. It might not amount to anything, but it certainly sounds like they're operating a scam of sorts.

Also, if they're actually making as much gold from it as they claim to be, then where is all the gold going? I mean, there are only so many things one can spend huge amounts of gold on in the game, so one has to wonder if they might be selling all of their ill-gotten gold for cash.

Ilumia

SilverBride wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Issues like this have come up before, but in fairness, I don't see what ZOS can do about it.

Disallow addons that can copy another player's build. This feature should only be usable by the home owner to recreate builds or parts of builds from and in their own houses.

I can really understand where that request is coming from, especially seeing as there seems to be one person acting in such bad faith on the PCNA server that the person has managed to become notorious for it. I do, however, strongly disagree that it should result in restricting a really nice addon function. Just because some idiot is using the tool maliciously does not mean that all the proper uses this gives, and all the people who use it without harming others - for instance when helping make builds with or for friends, should lose this functionality. There's also people pvp'ing in a way where their main purpose is to annoy others, but that doesn't mean pvp should end, because the vast majority of people are not like that. It is of course still a problem when people abuse things, I just don't think removing this addon function is a good solution.

For instance if I'm in a housing guild of 30 people who build together and inspire each other, and I've made a really nice dock or hut, or cottage garden, and one of my guildies says, "I love that, that gardens given me an idea for a really neat house, can I copy it and expand on your build? I really want to use your garden as a squarr and place a circle of treehouses around it." I'd say yes if I wanted to share it, they'd save time by just being able to copy and then work on from the point I had build to.

It could, however, be an idea for a that addon that it would only be possible to copy if the house owner gives permission. I sadly think that might be a bit cumbersome to implement fom zos, and I'd rater keep the function than having it badly implemented.

Tandor

This isn't about being able to steal builds, it's about being able to use addons to cheat.

SilverBride

Ilumia wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Issues like this have come up before, but in fairness, I don't see what ZOS can do about it.

Disallow addons that can copy another player's build. This feature should only be usable by the home owner to recreate builds or parts of builds from and in their own houses.

I can really understand where that request is coming from, especially seeing as there seems to be one person acting in such bad faith on the PCNA server that the person has managed to become notorious for it. I do, however, strongly disagree that it should result in restricting a really nice addon function.

I still think that addons should not be usable with other player's houses or items. EHT has another feature where anyone can turn all the lights in anyone else's houses off or on with one click. Because of this I had to make all my houses limited visitor to prevent this from happening to me again.

Thumbless_Bot

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Dont post names here. Open a ticket.

I don't see how there's anything ZOS can do here. The only possible consequences for this behavior are social consequences, and ZOS's short-sighted naming and shaming prohibition prevents any social consequences. So Scot free our offender goes.

Don't necessarily disagree. I was only trying to keep the op out of trouble.

Barovia87

Considering ZoS runs housing contests that have prizes worth real-world money: no, you shouldn't be able to just copy someone else's work, and they shouldn't allow add-ons that make outright cheating so simple.

Ridiculous that it's allowed.

ToddIngram

Tandor wrote: »

This isn't about being able to steal builds, it's about being able to use addons to cheat.

Cheat? At housing?

Copying without permission is tacky for sure, but it's not cheating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epHCMiCtt3M

SilverBride

ToddIngram wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

This isn't about being able to steal builds, it's about being able to use addons to cheat.

Cheat? At housing?

Copying without permission is tacky for sure, but it's not cheating.

It is cheating if a player steals another player's build and passes it off as their own. Especially if they enter it in a contest.

ToddIngram

SilverBride wrote: »

ToddIngram wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

This isn't about being able to steal builds, it's about being able to use addons to cheat.

Cheat? At housing?

Copying without permission is tacky for sure, but it's not cheating.

It is cheating if a player steals another player's build and passes it off as their own. Especially if they enter it in a contest.

If only people would take the state of the actual game with the same level of seriousness we'd be so much better off.

SilverBride

ToddIngram wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It is cheating if a player steals another player's build and passes it off as their own. Especially if they enter it in a contest.

If only people would take the state of the actual game with the same level of seriousness we'd be so much better off.

Housing is part of the actual game. Having concerns about it are just as important as any other concerns.