A Love Letter To The Past

ketsparrowhawk

Hello! I've been running an active Battlegrounds-focused guild on PC/NA for several years. Bit by bit, our community has watched our favorite passtime evolve into something that we like less and less. Here are the main grievances I've seen:

1. The removal of game mode choice. "Deathmatchers" and "Objective players" are now forced into the same games, causing an atmosphere of toxicity and frustration among players who have differing ideas about how to have fun in BG's (we want a Deathmatch queue)

2. Two-team Battlegrounds is a failure. Every match ends up as a spawn camp. Players drop out because the outcome is hopeless, especially since there is no second place to shoot for. Three-teams were way more fun due to the "enemy-of-my-enemy" dynamic. And they were more forgiving for players who found themselves on a weaker team. There was a lot more skill and strategy involved. Often times the "theoretically" weaker team would win by playing smart. Now, Deathmatch outcomes are determined withiin the first 30 seconds, and we're just going through the motions after that (until half the losing team drops out of the game). The thought of 3-team BG's used to excite me and I couldn't wait to log on and spend hours playing match after match. 2-team BG's does not get the same mental reaction and I find myself less and less interested with each game that I play, and my guildmates echo similar sentiments.

3. Subclassing has created a PvP environment in which everyone has the same or similar toolkit. Having different tactics for fighting Nightblades vs DK's vs Sorcs vs Templars etc was a major part of the fun and variety of playing PvP. Now we just build to counter one Everybuild. Not to mention that I don't feel much of a connection with my characters anymore since they're all capable of the same stuff.

With a heavy heart I canceled my ESO+ subscription this morning, as many of my guildmates have already done. I would reinstate my subscription in a heartbeat if we could get: 3-team BG's back, a Deathmatch queue, and a strong incentive for "pure" builds in PvP.

Thanks for the years of enjoyment and hopefully more to come.

Ket

Thumbless_Bot

Great post.

My first impression of this was, "oh, look. It's another thread on how terrible 2 sided battlegrounds are. I think we are approaching one hundred of these".

And while it is that, you have articulated a lot of my concerns very well. Battlegrounds are a shell of what they used to be. They are absolutely terrible.

On the other topic of Subclassing: subclassing is an admission by zos that they one, cannot balance classes and 2, have given up trying. You can either run the meta not.

Subclassing combined with the new mythic and scribing have turned pvp into a cluster. It is way too much change in too short of a time. They will likely never be able to sort out balance concerns woth this many variables changed at once. They couldn't do it with fewer variables.

Again. Theyve given up on balance and subclassing is their tacit admission of this.

They dont care about real pvp. This is was their intention with 2 teams. Make them more relaxed... easier. They really do not know what they are doing when it comes to pvp. They just knownhow to make money off of meta chasers.

I stick to doing zone dailies, one bg for the rewards and farming furnishing mats in different zones. Once this gets old there won't be anything to keep my attention like pvp used to.

ketsparrowhawk

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Great post.

My first impression of this was, "oh, look. It's another thread on how terrible 2 sided battlegrounds are. I think we are approaching one hundred of these".

And while it is that. You have articulated a lot of my concerns very well. Battlegrounds are a shell of what they used to be. They are absolutely terrible.

On the other topic of Subclassing: subclassing is an admission by zos that they one, cannot balance classes and 2, have given up trying. You can either run the meta not.

Subclassing combined with the new mythic and scribing have turned pvp into a cluster. It is way too much change in too short of a time. They will likely never be able to sort out balance concerns woth this many variables changed at once. They couldn't do it with fewer variables.

Again. Theyve given up and subclassing is their tacit admission of this.

I am in the minority but I never felt that balance was that bad between the different classes. They all had their different strengths and weaknesses. Not every class needs to be on equal footing in a 1v1 duel, imo. I had reasons to play every single class depending on which strength I was wanting to lean on that day. The one exception ofc was Necro.

JustLovely

I agree that 2 team BG's are horrible. Haven't played a BG since the first couple weeks of their existence and won't be back or play another BG ever unless its three teams.

Thumbless_Bot

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Great post.

My first impression of this was, "oh, look. It's another thread on how terrible 2 sided battlegrounds are. I think we are approaching one hundred of these".

And while it is that. You have articulated a lot of my concerns very well. Battlegrounds are a shell of what they used to be. They are absolutely terrible.

On the other topic of Subclassing: subclassing is an admission by zos that they one, cannot balance classes and 2, have given up trying. You can either run the meta not.

Subclassing combined with the new mythic and scribing have turned pvp into a cluster. It is way too much change in too short of a time. They will likely never be able to sort out balance concerns woth this many variables changed at once. They couldn't do it with fewer variables.

Again. Theyve given up and subclassing is their tacit admission of this.

I am in the minority but I never felt that balance was that bad between the different classes. They all had their different strengths and weaknesses. Not every class needs to be on equal footing in a 1v1 duel, imo. I had reasons to play every single class depending on which strength I was wanting to lean on that day. The one exception ofc was Necro.

I agree partially. They used to need to maybe make a tweak here and there to class skills, Like during the ward meta, just adjust the heal and all would have been good... and maybe slightly nerf spec bow, but that was it.

They just never did this stuff. Instead they come out of left field with something crazy that makes it worse.

My complaint with balance is more about broken items behind pay walls, imbalancrd ranged damage, broken sets that should have been left on the cutting room floor, and dot items like vate ice that were never aligned to two second dots. Classes were pretty good before.

fufu_from_ps4

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Hello! I've been running an active Battlegrounds-focused guild on PC/NA for several years. Bit by bit, our community has watched our favorite passtime evolve into something that we like less and less. Here are the main grievances I've seen:

1. The removal of game mode choice. "Deathmatchers" and "Objective players" are now forced into the same games, causing an atmosphere of toxicity and frustration among players who have differing ideas about how to have fun in BG's (we want a Deathmatch queue)

2. Two-team Battlegrounds is a failure. Every match ends up as a spawn camp. Players drop out because the outcome is hopeless, especially since there is no second place to shoot for. Three-teams were way more fun due to the "enemy-of-my-enemy" dynamic. And they were more forgiving for players who found themselves on a weaker team. There was a lot more skill and strategy involved. Often times the "theoretically" weaker team would win by playing smart. Now, Deathmatch outcomes are determined withiin the first 30 seconds, and we're just going through the motions after that (until half the losing team drops out of the game). The thought of 3-team BG's used to excite me and I couldn't wait to log on and spend hours playing match after match. 2-team BG's does not get the same mental reaction and I find myself less and less interested with each game that I play, and my guildmates echo similar sentiments.

3. Subclassing has created a PvP environment in which everyone has the same or similar toolkit. Having different tactics for fighting Nightblades vs DK's vs Sorcs vs Templars etc was a major part of the fun and variety of playing PvP. Now we just build to counter one Everybuild. Not to mention that I don't feel much of a connection with my characters anymore since they're all capable of the same stuff.

With a heavy heart I canceled my ESO+ subscription this morning, as many of my guildmates have already done. I would reinstate my subscription in a heartbeat if we could get: 3-team BG's back, a Deathmatch queue, and a strong incentive for "pure" builds in PvP.

Thanks for the years of enjoyment and hopefully more to come.

Ket

Well said. Agreed.

Chrisilis

Well said. Me personally, I dont need them to reinvent the wheel. I dont need them to do anything but reinstate a single 3 team BG queue. I dont need em to delete two team, I dont need a separate queue for DM or objectives, I just want classic battlegrounds back as is. As was. I want to play two team if I feel like it and three team the other 90% of the time.

Side note, it is absolutely ridiculous that with the amount of feedback, with the amount of pushback, they've received regarding the loss of 4v4v4 there's been almost zero communication to the players affected other than one or two vague "hey we here you" responses. Maybe they're mad at us for not just absolutely loving two team. Maybe they blew the budget for an entire year on the revamp and there's no dinero to accommodate our repeated, pointed, and increasingly frustrated requests to give us our ******* game back. They probably think we're a bunch of ingrates who do nothing but complain and are never happy. Whatever. How are we supposed to respond to getting the silent treatment for an entire year?

ketsparrowhawk

Chrisilis wrote: »

Well said. Me personally, I dont need them to reinvent the wheel. I dont need them to do anything but reinstate a single 3 team BG queue. I dont need em to delete two team, I dont need a separate queue for DM or objectives, I just want classic battlegrounds back as is. As was. I want to play two team if I feel like it and three team the other 90% of the time.

Side note, it is absolutely ridiculous that with the amount of feedback, with the amount of pushback, they've received regarding the loss of 4v4v4 there's been almost zero communication to the players affected other than one or two vague "hey we here you" responses. Maybe they're mad at us for not just absolutely loving two team. Maybe they blew the budget for an entire year on the revamp and there's no dinero to accommodate our repeated, pointed, and increasingly frustrated requests to give us our ******* game back. They probably think we're a bunch of ingrates who do nothing but complain and are never happy. Whatever. How are we supposed to respond to getting the silent treatment for an entire year?

"Give us our game back" is exactly the feeling

SaffronCitrusflower

Chrisilis wrote: »

Well said. Me personally, I dont need them to reinvent the wheel. I dont need them to do anything but reinstate a single 3 team BG queue. I dont need em to delete two team, I dont need a separate queue for DM or objectives, I just want classic battlegrounds back as is. As was. I want to play two team if I feel like it and three team the other 90% of the time.

Side note, it is absolutely ridiculous that with the amount of feedback, with the amount of pushback, they've received regarding the loss of 4v4v4 there's been almost zero communication to the players affected other than one or two vague "hey we here you" responses. Maybe they're mad at us for not just absolutely loving two team. Maybe they blew the budget for an entire year on the revamp and there's no dinero to accommodate our repeated, pointed, and increasingly frustrated requests to give us our ******* game back. They probably think we're a bunch of ingrates who do nothing but complain and are never happy. Whatever. How are we supposed to respond to getting the silent treatment for an entire year?

And now ZOS is gearing up to, apparently at least, replace live cyodiil PvP with a version that is almost universally despised by the PvP community.

ZOS is doing what ZOS wants. Not what the community is asking for. I hope nobody is wondering why the game is bleeding so many players so fast.