Was using Godsend then lost access to my Guild

Mathius_Mordred

I was using Godsend addon to alert all members of my guild that the Guild History has been switched off. After a few mails were sent out I got a message saying mail is disabled. I then went to a banker in Skingrad and I can only see my bank, not the guild bank or the guild store. I tried this on another account I have and it's fine, everything is visible. I restarted the game, ran the repair, loaded in and I still can't see any options for guild bank or guild store. I am the GM of my guild which is called Skyrim Red Shirts. I can't run the guild like this.

Ticket: 250905-000563

@ZOS_Kevin Please can you take a look, and if this is some sort of restriction for using the GodSend mass mailer we need to know about it as all guilds are mass mailing their members about the guild history being switched off. Thanks.

hiyde

The most likely cause is that some words or combination of words tripped their automated social ban. They are set up to look for things a Gold Seller might say...

They're usually pretty quick about undoing the ban when you put a ticket in.

Back when Psijic Ambrosia first came out, we ran a raffle to give them away. I stupidly put "Powerlevel" in the subject line and got banned on two accounts in 10 minutes lol. That was my first encounter with the "automated ban script". When the first one got banned I had no idea what was happening so I flipped to my other account and started sending from *that* one. Oopsie.

After that, I bought a cheap throwaway account purely for sending guild mails. That way, if it did get any kind of ban, nothing lost.

Mathius_Mordred

hiyde wrote: »

The most likely cause is that some words or combination of words tripped their automated social ban. They are set up to look for things a Gold Seller might say...

They're usually pretty quick about undoing the ban when you put a ticket in.

Back when Psijic Ambrosia first came out, we ran a raffle to give them away. I stupidly put "Powerlevel" in the subject line and got banned on two accounts in 10 minutes lol. That was my first encounter with the "automated ban script". When the first one got banned I had no idea what was happening so I flipped to my other account and started sending from *that* one. Oopsie.

After that, I bought a cheap throwaway account purely for sending guild mails. That way, if it did get any kind of ban, nothing lost.

Thanks, but why would that prevent me from even seeing the guild bank or guild store? It's like I've been banned from my own guild and yet I am still GM and can still alter permissions and edit the MOTD etc?

Weird

heinousmoz

Social bans include anything and everything to do with guilds. So no interacting with with anything guild related is possible on the account until the ban is lifted.

ApoAlaia

Just a heads up.

If you open GodSend.lua with a text editor and search for 'sendDelay' you will find this line:

local sendDelay = 1200

You can increase the value (it is expressed in ms) to something like 5000 (one email every 5s) to reduce the chance of getting a social ban for spamming.

Is no guarantee of safety, ultimately what triggers social bans is entirely up to ZOS, but it might improve the odds (of 'surviving', not 'of getting banned' )

Mathius_Mordred

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Just a heads up.

If you open GodSend.lua with a text editor and search for 'sendDelay' you will find this line:

local sendDelay = 1200

You can increase the value (it is expressed in ms) to something like 5000 (one email every 5s) to reduce the chance of getting a social ban for spamming.

Is no guarantee of safety, ultimately what triggers social bans is entirely up to ZOS, but it might improve the odds (of 'surviving', not 'of getting banned' )

Assuming my account gets unlocked I will use a different account to do stuff like this but that's a great suggestion thanks.

Dagoth_Rac

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Thanks, but why would that prevent me from even seeing the guild bank or guild store? It's like I've been banned from my own guild and yet I am still GM and can still alter permissions and edit the MOTD etc?
Weird

To prevent you from interacting with the economy. Once you get marked as a potential gold seller or bot or spammer, you get cut off from ways of transferring money and goods. Kind of like how if your credit card company sees suspicious activity, it will start rejecting all transactions until it gets resolved.

QueenMisi

You've been social-banned. It's not related to any specific addon, it happens when GMs mail their guilds. They'll get round to lifting it in a few days if you've put a ticket in.

As far as I can tell, making some sort of system where an account that holds a guild isn't subject to banning for mailing members isn't even on the radar. so most GMs buy a second account specifically for sending guild-wide mails. That way, when it gets banned they can still manage the guild. We had two mailing accounts banned last night.

I imagine that having your main account social-banned on top of last night's exciting new cockup is very frustrating though

Mathius_Mordred

QueenMisi wrote: »

You've been social-banned. It's not related to any specific addon, it happens when GMs mail their guilds. They'll get round to lifting it in a few days if you've put a ticket in.

As far as I can tell, making some sort of system where an account that holds a guild isn't subject to banning for mailing members isn't even on the radar. so most GMs buy a second account specifically for sending guild-wide mails. That way, when it gets banned they can still manage the guild. We had two mailing accounts banned last night.

I imagine that having your main account social-banned on top of last night's exciting new cockup is very frustrating though

Indeed it is, but this is not the first time I've been at the sharp end of a warning or ban for just running my guild and I am getting very tired of it. I spend all my time and spare money on this game doing everything I can to keep member's interested in playing it and therefore spending, and I'm treated like this, it begs the question, why bother, it's just too much stress.

Grizzbeorn

Is there a reason why a mass email, which all too often results in a social ban, is better than a MOTD?

As a guild user, I'd rather get the MOTD than an email. You get notifications for both in the same area of the screen and the MOTD won't get my officers banned.

Mathius_Mordred

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Is there a reason why a mass email, which all too often results in a social ban, is better than a MOTD?

As a guild user, I'd rather get the MOTD than an email. You get notifications for both in the same area of the screen and the MOTD won't get my officers banned.

Many people don't read the MOTD, so in the case of something important and to prevent a million questions just send a mail. It's a standard feature in every other MMO even those older than this one. Here though we have to rely on GodSend and clearly if the game decides it doesn't like you it automatically bans you for doing your job as a guild admin.

SilverBride

I would be very unhappy if my guild started mailing me all the time. The MOTD is a good way to communicate to all members at once, as well as Discord. That is how our guild keeps us informed.

Grizzbeorn

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Is there a reason why a mass email, which all too often results in a social ban, is better than a MOTD?

As a guild user, I'd rather get the MOTD than an email. You get notifications for both in the same area of the screen and the MOTD won't get my officers banned.

Many people don't read the MOTD, so in the case of something important and to prevent a million questions just send a mail. It's a standard feature in every other MMO even those older than this one. Here though we have to rely on GodSend and clearly if the game decides it doesn't like you it automatically bans you for doing your job as a guild admin.

It has nothing to do with whether or not it "likes" you; that's ridiculous.
It's the volume/send rate of mail that triggers the ban.

SilverBride

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Many people don't read the MOTD...

Well they should.

Members have some responsibility too, and should keep up with what is going on with the guild by reading the MOTD and checking Discord for announcements.

Grizzbeorn

SilverBride wrote: »

I would be very unhappy if my guild started mailing me all the time. The MOTD is a good way to communicate to all members at once, as well as Discord. That is how our guild keeps us informed.

My officers helm two high-volume guilds, and they don't use email for either guild, except for the lone task of notifying the raffle winners, and there are only five raffle winners per week.

hiyde

SilverBride wrote: »

I would be very unhappy if my guild started mailing me all the time. The MOTD is a good way to communicate to all members at once, as well as Discord. That is how our guild keeps us informed.

The good news is that members are free to join guilds that best match their expecations. If you happen to land in a guild that you feel is e-mailing too much, drop and move on to a less informational one. Guilds should have the choice to send mails just as members have the choice to bail if it offends them.

A well-crafted and interesting e-mail is going to get more eyeballs than the MOTD or a Discord ping. Everybody opens their mailbox. Far fewer check MOTD or Discord pings.

All communications tools need to be used responsibly or they just become white noise. We limit guild mails (outside of emergencies) to 1-2 per month. No complaints!

SilverBride

hiyde wrote: »

A well-crafted and interesting e-mail is going to get more eyeballs than the MOTD or a Discord ping. Everybody opens their mailbox. Far fewer check MOTD or Discord pings.

It takes one click to open the MOTD. The game even notifies all members when the MOTD has been updated, so they are aware that there is new information to be seen. Checking Discord is just as quick and easy.

In my opinion any member that can't be bothered to take a few seconds to keep up to date with their guild isn't a true member. They are just names on a roster.

ApoAlaia

I get that some players don't like to receive mail, and I try to keep it to a minimum however sometimes needs must.

Is not like I enjoy watching my screen for 30+ minutes while GodSend does its thing while pondering if this will be the time when I'm hit by a social ban.

Just bear in mind that every time you receive an 'inconveniencing email' the sender was inconvenienced x500 to keep you in the loop about something important.

Grizzbeorn

ApoAlaia wrote: »

bear in mind that every time you receive an 'inconveniencing email' the sender was inconvenienced x500 to keep you in the loop about something important.

And, as you reference, risked a ban.

You don't get banned for posting a MOTD.
And, it's ONE message, instead of 500.

SilverBride

ApoAlaia wrote: »

I get that some players don't like to receive mail, and I try to keep it to a minimum however sometimes needs must.

Is not like I enjoy watching my screen for 30+ minutes while GodSend does its thing while pondering if this will be the time when I'm hit by a social ban.

Just bear in mind that every time you receive an 'inconveniencing email' the sender was inconvenienced x500 to keep you in the loop about something important.

I've never received a mail from my guild which I have been a member of for 3 years now. They use Discord to keep us informed, and there is no risk of receiving a social ban, which is way more inconvenient.

hiyde

SilverBride wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

A well-crafted and interesting e-mail is going to get more eyeballs than the MOTD or a Discord ping. Everybody opens their mailbox. Far fewer check MOTD or Discord pings.

It takes one click to open the MOTD. The game even notifies all members when the MOTD has been updated, so they are aware that there is new information to be seen. Checking Discord is just as quick and easy.

In my opinion any member that can't be bothered to take a few seconds to keep up to date with their guild isn't a true member. They are just names on a roster.

In my opinion, I'm going to meet members where they are, whether it's the MOTD, Discord, Guild Chat or, yes, Guild Mails.

Yes it's just one-click to see the MOTD or a couple clicks to view a Discord notification, but not everyone does. It doesn't make them substandard members in my opinion, but maybe that's just me...

SilverBride

hiyde wrote: »

In my opinion, I'm going to meet members where they are, whether it's the MOTD, Discord, Guild Chat or, yes, Guild Mails.

Yes it's just one-click to see the MOTD or a couple clicks to view a Discord notification, but not everyone does. It doesn't make them substandard members in my opinion, but maybe that's just me...

The members that don't take the few seconds it takes to read an updated MOTD or check Discord are probably not carefully reading a guild mail either.

hiyde

SilverBride wrote: »

The members that don't take the few seconds it takes to read an updated MOTD or check Discord are probably not carefully reading a guild mail either.

But some of them do, and that's the point.

ApoAlaia

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

bear in mind that every time you receive an 'inconveniencing email' the sender was inconvenienced x500 to keep you in the loop about something important.

And, as you reference, risked a ban.

You don't get banned for posting a MOTD.
And, it's ONE message, instead of 500.

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

bear in mind that every time you receive an 'inconveniencing email' the sender was inconvenienced x500 to keep you in the loop about something important.

And, as you reference, risked a ban.

You don't get banned for posting a MOTD.
And, it's ONE message, instead of 500.

Not everyone reads the MotD.

As the saying goes 'You can take a donkey to the water, but you cannot force it to drink!'

I added a note in the MotD yesterday as soon as news broke, today I had a number of queries about what was going on anyway.

Furthermore the MotD has limited characters, if I put the full contents of the mail on the MotD I have to remove important guild information from the MotD.

Your arguments do not sway me and I have a feeling that my arguments are not going to sway you so let's agree that we have very different outlooks on life and part ways shall we?

SilverBride

hiyde wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The members that don't take the few seconds it takes to read an updated MOTD or check Discord are probably not carefully reading a guild mail either.

But some of them do, and that's the point.

I get that, but the other methods aren't putting the guild leader at risk of a social ban.

hiyde

SilverBride wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The members that don't take the few seconds it takes to read an updated MOTD or check Discord are probably not carefully reading a guild mail either.

But some of them do, and that's the point.

I get that, but the other methods aren't putting the guild leader at risk of a social ban.

Ever since I talked to ZOS about the auto-ban filter and the kind of text it looks for (over 8 years ago) I've not received a social ban, either.

spartaxoxo

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

You've been social-banned. It's not related to any
Indeed it is, but this is not the first time I've been at the sharp end of a warning or ban for just running my guild and I am getting very tired of it. I spend all my time and spare money on this game doing everything I can to keep member's interested in playing it and therefore spending, and I'm treated like this, it begs the question, why bother, it's just too much stress.

If you submit a ticket, they should unban you. The first response is automatic. Only send a single ticket. Do not send multiple items just bumps you to the bottom of the line. The ESO help page has a link for account recovery if you're not able to send tickets.

I have to say though, based on these words alone, that this ban might be a blessing in disguise. Maybe you SHOULD scale back your in-game activities. Don't spend all of your free time and discretionary funds on any singular video game. It's not only a lot of stress for not much rewards. But you miss out on some great rl experiences you may have had. It doesn't mean you have to uninstall completely but I'm sure that you can pick officers that can take some of this burden off of you. Playing the game shouldn't make you feel stressed! You deserve to enjoy your life too

Mathius_Mordred

SilverBride wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The members that don't take the few seconds it takes to read an updated MOTD or check Discord are probably not carefully reading a guild mail either.

But some of them do, and that's the point.

I get that, but the other methods aren't putting the guild leader at risk of a social ban.

Sadly you are missing the main point entirely. In all other MMOs, Guild mail is a possibility. Here, it is possible through a legal addon that, if used, can see you getting a social ban. This is ludicrous and disgusting behaviour from the owners of the game. For reference, I only use mass mailing when it is something important because not everyone sees the MOTD (it has limited characters available too), not everyone sees Discord, and not everyone sees the website, news blogs or Facebook and Bluesky posts. By using all methods available to us, guild leaders can ensure that the maximum number of people affected can be reached. Even then, there will be lots of people asking why they don't have bank access; it's human nature.

I took part in the Guild Leaders Summit a few months back, and better guild facilities, such as guild mail, were top of the list, along with banking rank rights to enable different ranks to withdraw different amounts.

For reference, I probably use mass mailings one or twice per month at most. Now I will only use it from a burner account because the game doesn't like mass mailings and sees it as spamming. The same thing happens if you add too many notes or even if you promote somebody too many times, say from rank 1 to rank 6, you will get a warning that you are sending too many messages. The entire system is falling apart and is the result of a very poor and very old design. It all needs a complete overhaul, along with their ridiculous auto-banning bots. They are really trying to alienate a lot of people with the systems they have put in place ostensibly to protect people, they are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, and we guild leaders are paying the price. A price I may add that some of us will only pay for so long.

scrappy1342

hiyde wrote: »

In my opinion, I'm going to meet members where they are, whether it's the MOTD, Discord, Guild Chat or, yes, Guild Mails.

Yes it's just one-click to see the MOTD or a couple clicks to view a Discord notification, but not everyone does. It doesn't make them substandard members in my opinion, but maybe that's just me...

can confirm. been a member of many big guilds and i don't pay attention to MOTD because that's rarely ever the kind of info that is there. there's not enough space on the guild info page, so it spills over to there. most guilds will put some weekly info in there (like contests, raffle winners, big sellers, etc), but anything major super important emergency (like guild history isn't working SO DON'T BUY RAFFLE TICKETS!!!!!) will go in an in game mail. these get read because they aren't sending them out every day. i might get 2 or 3 a year per guild

spartaxoxo

scrappy1342 wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

In my opinion, I'm going to meet members where they are, whether it's the MOTD, Discord, Guild Chat or, yes, Guild Mails.

Yes it's just one-click to see the MOTD or a couple clicks to view a Discord notification, but not everyone does. It doesn't make them substandard members in my opinion, but maybe that's just me...

can confirm. been a member of many big guilds and i don't pay attention to MOTD because that's rarely ever the kind of info that is there. there's not enough space on the guild info page, so it spills over to there. most guilds will put some weekly info in there (like contests, raffle winners, big sellers, etc), but anything major super important emergency (like guild history isn't working SO DON'T BUY RAFFLE TICKETS!!!!!) will go in an in game mail. these get read because they aren't sending them out every day. i might get 2 or 3 a year per guild

I'm on console so I haven't ever received a mass mail. Instead officers will periodically bring this up in chat and others will do the same for stuff like this. I'd prefer a mail because that seems exhausting. But it's not base game functionality and console only recently received add-ons. I'm not sure that the add-on for mail is even one of them.

I don't read MOTD every time it pops up because it has a lot of guild information that I already know or don't need. Like the winners of a raffle that I didn't buy tickets to participate in.

Grizzbeorn

I do have to apologize/concede the point that the MOTD is limited, if not very restrictive, if it is already being used to display weekly info such as for raffle prize detailing.
It didn't hit me in the face until we got the MOTD a few minutes ago with the Guild History warning, and it was tacked-on/added above the raffle info.

Mea culpa

But hey, she won't get banned.