Can the Daily Endeavors be biologically accurate?

TheBardAtTheInn

"Chitinous" doesn't mean "hard shelled." If it did, then things like wasps and spiders should count for the Endeavor, which they do not. It also apparently doesn't mean "something that has chitin" because again, wasps and spiders don't count, while the large reptilian vertebrate Dunerippers do.

Looking forward to the next time they introduce a new batch of Endeavors and we get a "Kill mammalian foes" that can only be progressed by killing giant snakes, monkey critters, and fauns, and neither bears nor wolves count.

<edited title to remove bash on developers and keep accuracy of topic>

valenwood_vegan

I mean, it's a video game. Unfortunately, things were probably coded in inconsistent ways by different people over the last decade and the classifications given to various enemies by various programmers were likely not reviewed by a biologist.

The endeavor tooltips do generally list specific enemies that count for an endeavor, but I wouldn't expect them to spend time striving for complete accuracy in how enemies are classified in the game code. I suppose they could just remove the terms and simply list the enemies that count for the endeavor, that might be the most sensible thing.

kargen27

You have to remember this is a different world so our norms and conventions may not apply.

Orbital78

The mobs tend to only count as one mob type, spiders fall under arachnid I think. Dunerippers fall under reptilian I think. Chitinous is mud crab or dreugh day.

Cazador

kargen27 wrote: »

You have to remember this is a different world so our norms and conventions may not apply.

Pretty much this. If they were going for biological accuracy then ebony wouldn't be an ore.

Dagoth_Rac

Each enemy has one and only one classification. A mob can be chitinous. A mob can be insect. It cannot be a chitinous insect. So the classifications are a bit arbitrary, and feel less like, "This is most obvious classification," and more like, "Let's make this a watery foe instead of a ghost because we already have a bunch of things that count as ghost."

Hapexamendios

I don't care about a fictional word conforming to real world norms.

MorallyBipolar

TheBardAtTheInn wrote: »

"Chitinous" doesn't mean "hard shelled." If it did, then things like wasps and spiders should count for the Endeavor, which they do not. It also apparently doesn't mean "something that has chitin" because again, wasps and spiders don't count, while the large reptilian vertebrate Dunerippers do.

Looking forward to the next time they introduce a new batch of Endeavors and we get a "Kill mammalian foes" that can only be progressed by killing giant snakes, monkey critters, and fauns, and neither bears nor wolves count.

<edited title to remove bash on developers and keep accuracy of topic>

You're not the first to post this.

Technically every insect, arachnid, crab....every invertebrate in the game has chitin as it's exoskeleton. They should all qualify as "chitinous" creatures in game. They're all chitinous creatures in the real world.

spartaxoxo

The big thing missing from chitinous creatures is Kwama. Like Kwama Chitin is a big part of the lore. There's absolutely zero reason that it should be excluded.

ApoAlaia

Is a bit like the 'eat dry arthropod vs wet arthropod' meme no?

OK maybe is nothing like the meme but for some reason it reminded me of it.

In this case dry arthropods are not considered chitinous (shalk, kwama, hoarvor, spider etc) where wet arthropods (dreugh, mudcrab, yaghra etc) are.

Perhaps someone got calcium carbonate and chitin somehow mixed up?

Either way as with everything else regarding their property there is consistency and then there is ZOSistency(TM).

Just roll with it, otherwise this way madness lies.

CoronHR

there used to be one that referred to a strange, unknown land called Rivenpsire, or something like that

Zyaneth_Bal

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

I mean, it's a video game. Unfortunately, things were probably coded in inconsistent ways by different people over the last decade and the classifications given to various enemies by various programmers were likely not reviewed by a biologist.

The endeavor tooltips do generally list specific enemies that count for an endeavor, but I wouldn't expect them to spend time striving for complete accuracy in how enemies are classified in the game code. I suppose they could just remove the terms and simply list the enemies that count for the endeavor, that might be the most sensible thing.

True, it’s a game but it does get to a point where it just hurts to read. It has nothing to do with how the game itself classifies enemies, they just need to make the text comprehensive for players.
Like make several enemy types count for “chitinous” and such (eg endeavor says “chitinous foes” enemies that count towards it are both those are that coded as “chitinous” and those coded as “insects” or whatever), I don’t see how it is a problem.

kaushad

kargen27 wrote: »

You have to remember this is a different world so our norms and conventions may not apply.

And how are players supposed to know about these different norms for the sake of pursuing a daily endeavor? This is like if an NPC in a quest said "Meet Drals Ienith at the tavern in Evermore", then he turns out to be at the Mages Guild, and waving it off with "Well maybe in Tamriel, they call mages guildhalls taverns?". Or if you get sent to pick some red flowers, which in fact are yellow: "What what if in Tamriel, red means yellow?"

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Every time I see this Endeavor I feel like whoever wrote it meant to write ‘crustaceans’ or something of the sort instead of ‘chitinous.’ It fits the actual targets much better.

sleepy_worm

Daily endeavors are metagame actions with metagame rewards. So it's not entirely out of the question that one might need to seek metagame knowledge to complete them.

Foe type is just a thing that was there in the code they could use without creating a ton of work for people.

Dojohoda

Maybe it's the soil, "Kill dangerous critters that live in and are know to dive in sandy soil" (crabs and dunerippers) or maybe it could be written as " Kill crabs and dunerippers" easy peasy

Four_Fingers

I still want to know after all these years why birds in ESO are a protected species.

zaria

Creatures can only be in one group. so Argonians are NPC or players not reptiles.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Dojohoda wrote: »

Maybe it's the soil, "Kill dangerous critters that live in and are know to dive in sandy soil" (crabs and dunerippers) or maybe it could be written as " Kill crabs and dunerippers" easy peasy

I have a feeling why it is written the way it is, is so that if they add new creatures to kill, that fall under these categories, they don't have to keep remembering to update text everywhere that uses this type of coding.

kargen27

kaushad wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

You have to remember this is a different world so our norms and conventions may not apply.

And how are players supposed to know about these different norms for the sake of pursuing a daily endeavor? This is like if an NPC in a quest said "Meet Drals Ienith at the tavern in Evermore", then he turns out to be at the Mages Guild, and waving it off with "Well maybe in Tamriel, they call mages guildhalls taverns?". Or if you get sent to pick some red flowers, which in fact are yellow: "What what if in Tamriel, red means yellow?"

Nah it isn't like that at all. With your example the game is telling you the location. With the chitinous creatures the player makes the assumption of what creatures the designation applies. The players will figure it out the first time they do the endeavor much like they figure out just about every other aspect of the game.

kaushad

kargen27 wrote: »

Nah it isn't like that at all. With your example the game is telling you the location. With the chitinous creatures the player makes the assumption of what creatures the designation applies. The players will figure it out the first time they do the endeavor much like they figure out just about every other aspect of the game.

Conveniently, quests have a compass in ESO; endeavors don't. The "assumption" is that the instructions are written in English or whatever language they chose for installation.

kargen27

kaushad wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Nah it isn't like that at all. With your example the game is telling you the location. With the chitinous creatures the player makes the assumption of what creatures the designation applies. The players will figure it out the first time they do the endeavor much like they figure out just about every other aspect of the game.

Conveniently, quests have a compass in ESO; endeavors don't. The "assumption" is that the instructions are written in English or whatever language they chose for installation.

Still doesn't change that your example doesn't fit the endeavor scenario. And it still only takes one time to realize what does and does not qualify in completing an endeavor.

Gabriel_H

The problem isn't the categories, it is that ZOS decided not to show them to players, neither in the default UI or in the API for addon creators. The latter would require a manually written database for every mob name to pull off.

ZOS have decided that mobs can only be one thing. So it's not that they are not biologically accurate, but rather narrowly defined.

Remathilis

I still wonder how you get leather from crabs...

DragonRacer

Remathilis wrote: »

I still wonder how you get leather from crabs...

I wanna know where they kept that ruby ash staff or rubedite sword they dropped. XD

Hamish999

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I don't care about a fictional word conforming to real world norms.

From the Collins Dictionary:

JemadarofCaerSalis

Hamish999 wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I don't care about a fictional word conforming to real world norms.

From the Collins Dictionary:

I think they may have meant a fictional world conforming to real world norms.

At least that is how I read it at first!