Has Subclassing killed the alt

logan68

I came up with an idea for an arcanist combining dark magic, deadra summoning and herald of tomb powers. So i made a character started leveling him and realized I didn't need to do that. I went to my main slotted out lightning put in herald and boom adjusted the states with various pieces of arm and enchants, saved the build in the armory and deleted the alt. No more alt no extra time spent running ESO and since the new content is done ...what am i to do now that the other reason I keep up my sub is alts. As bad as it is sub classing I think has killed the alts like FF14 where there is no reason to create alts either. I think it was a long term mistake made to fix a short term problem.

MorallyBipolar

AWA's killed the need for alt toons. That and the add ons and armory that made it possible to level one toon to do all roles. (well, one toon can't do all roles, but one toon can do most now with a few seconds of tweaking and adjustments)

Grizzbeorn

No.

LunaFlora

No. i use Subclassing and all my characters

Araneae6537

No, I still enjoy playing my alts — more so than before subclassing was introduced, as I now enjoy playing characters whose classes I didn’t enjoy or didn’t fit how I wanted to develop the character.

People who enjoy playing alts will always play alts. Those who only have alts to chase a meta will need fewer.

SkaiFaith

logan68 wrote: »

I came up with an idea for an arcanist combining dark magic, deadra summoning and herald of tomb powers. So i made a character started leveling him and realized I didn't need to do that. I went to my main slotted out lightning put in herald and boom adjusted the states with various pieces of arm and enchants, saved the build in the armory and deleted the alt. No more alt no extra time spent running ESO and since the new content is done ...what am i to do now that the other reason I keep up my sub is alts. As bad as it is sub classing I think has killed the alts like FF14 where there is no reason to create alts either. I think it was a long term mistake made to fix a short term problem.

I don't mean to sound rude but the message passing from your OP is that... Playing ESO IS leveling a character, otherwise no reason to play. This to me sounds awful, without offense. I LOVE that I can now skip the maddening grind and have 10 different builds with various subclasses on a single character!
Does this make less necessary to have alts? Yes, absolutely.
Does it makes nonsense to have alts? No, why would it?
If anything, I now enjoy way more using my alts and jumping between them...

Renato90085

Yes,it why my other 11 toon now just a bank or craft daily robot
and 2 main character have 14~18 set in they bag

logan68

Renato90085 wrote: »

Yes,it why my other 11 toon now just a bank or craft daily robot
and 2 main character have 14~18 set in they bag

this is what is happening to my alts as well... i am setting them up to receive stuff when i log and to craft thats pretty much it

logan68

LunaFlora wrote: »

No. i use Subclassing and all my characters

i think that is the point I am trying to make, there is no reason to supclass on the alts, you can weave in whatever you want on your main and be down with making new characters if you goal is to min max or create different playstyles.

Nemesis7884

sub classing imo makes alts potentially more interesting as you can tailor your desired fantasy even better...

sub classing could be the first step to abandon classes altogether and move to a class less skill line based system....which would be much more interesting as you dont have to balanced classes vs each other anynore and can balance skill lines much more in a rock paper scissor type approach.

LunaFlora

logan68 wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

No. i use Subclassing and all my characters

i think that is the point I am trying to make, there is no reason to supclass on the alts, you can weave in whatever you want on your main and be down with making new characters if you goal is to min max or create different playstyles.

what point? what exactly in my comment are you responding to?

My main character is a Warden. Before Subclassing released i made a build that can only work with a Necromancer as it uses Grave Lord, Bone Tyrant, and Ardent Flame.
I am guessing it is easier for me to use my other characters because i see them as separate characters and don't do the exact same thing with them as with my main character.

CalamityCat

Depends on how you play the game.

I keep all my alts and use them exactly as I did before. I was on track to have characters that included all the classes and races, and I just need to finish my baby templar and then build a necro. All my characters are pure classes and I haven't got plans to subclass anyone. Making and re-making builds after major updates just doesn't appeal to me. It's just a horrible way to spend limited gaming time! I prefer to enjoy simply playing my characters and doing fun stuff. Not constantly training or farming for gear.

The only change in how I play now is I don't tend to do dungeons or trials because I have all the gear I needed from them, so I can focus instead on what I actually want to do each night.

Sadras

No. I'm a roleplayer who came from the single-player TES games. To me, alts are distinct separate characters that experience separate stories. Subclassing just gives me more freedom to custom-tailor their skills for who they specifically are as people and what they learn over time.

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

sub classing imo makes alts potentially more interesting as you can tailor your desired fantasy even better...

sub classing could be the first step to abandon classes altogether and move to a class less skill line based system....

And this would be my actual dream. Complete freedom and a skill tree à la Skyrim.

shadyjane62

In my case it killed my main.


And my only alt.

Edited for spelling and a deletion of my real feelings about subclassing.

Jaimeh

For me, it has. I don't see the point of playing on an alt who will subclass in the exact same way as all the other alts (speaking of meta builds in organized groups), whereas before, a toon with a different class would be using a different spec and would play in a different way. It might not have been a big difference in terms of gear for end-game, but the gameplay at least would be different. Now, whether it's a base templar, NB, or Arc, they all play the same way and have the same gear, so alts are pretty much delegated to aesthetics.

DenverRalphy

My general approach to participating in content is to "bring the best tool for the job" so to speak.

Prior to subclassing, I had a steady roster of 5 or 6 regularly played characters (out of 14). Each with their own strengths and weaknesses. I was generally very happy with this setup.

Today my actively played roster comprises 2 characters. It was when I went to determine which alt should be the 3rd to get the upgrade treatment when I realized that no matter which one I chose, after subclassing they'd all share the same skill and buff mechanics (albeit with different colors and nomenclature). And then on top of that, I realized that it's not just subclassing directly that has brought this about. But also the general state of gear-sets and how they relate to protection, damage types, buffs, skills, etc.. because now they would all be equiped with the same gear.

Now I recognize that some will wax on about how players are free to choose different skills and gear to fuel the imagination. However, online RPG's are still games where there's a performance competency aspect. While RPG's are essentially games of "Let's pretend" at their core, when the driving force behind the storyline is about a hero capable of defeating all obstacles placed before them, roleplaying a character that's simply "good enough to get by" is rarely an appealing choice. Which is why so many players gravitate towards building the best performing character they can.

So yeah.. tldr: The substantially larger majority of my characters are currently on daily writs/furnishing plan farming duty.

NoSoup

No. You're still somewhat limited by inventory. Simply don't have the inventory space to maintain a tank, healer, dps, cp pvp and no cp pvp setup all on one character.

Found it too much of a burden just trying to maintain a vet trial dps, bgs build and IA build. So now 1 arcanist is pure dps with different builds for different situations and the other is Cyrodil, BGs and IA. Still mainntain 2 tanks (though admittently only 1 is getting any real play time) with different setups for different content. Use to have multiple healers but only use the one now. Everything else is just crafting now.

Necrotech_Master

i still use alts to keep different builds

you also cant "easily" change race or your base class

i would make more alts if it wasnt such a hassle with certain things (needing to re-learn skill lines, skill pts, and especially nonsense junk like companion unlocks)

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

AWA's killed the need for alt toons. That and the add ons and armory that made it possible to level one toon to do all roles. (well, one toon can't do all roles, but one toon can do most now with a few seconds of tweaking and adjustments)

account wide achievements made my alts feel more useful, instead of having to try to get every achievement on my main, which is not built for a lot of the content in the game, i can now use the right toon for the job

logan68

DenverRalphy wrote: »

My general approach to participating in content is to "bring the best tool for the job" so to speak.

Prior to subclassing, I had a steady roster of 5 or 6 regularly played characters (out of 14). Each with their own strengths and weaknesses. I was generally very happy with this setup.

Today my actively played roster comprises 2 characters. It was when I went to determine which alt should be the 3rd to get the upgrade treatment when I realized that no matter which one I chose, after subclassing they'd all share the same skill and buff mechanics (albeit with different colors and nomenclature). And then on top of that, I realized that it's not just subclassing directly that has brought this about. But also the general state of gear-sets and how they relate to protection, damage types, buffs, skills, etc.. because now they would all be equiped with the same gear.

Now I recognize that some will wax on about how players are free to choose different skills and gear to fuel the imagination. However, online RPG's are still games where there's a performance competency aspect. While RPG's are essentially games of "Let's pretend" at their core, when the driving force behind the storyline is about a hero capable of defeating all obstacles placed before them, roleplaying a character that's simply "good enough to get by" is rarely an appealing choice. Which is why so many players gravitate towards building the best performing character they can.

So yeah.. tldr: The substantially larger majority of my characters are currently on daily writs/furnishing plan farming duty.

kind of how i felt it went too. You put it much better then me as well

Hapexamendios

No, because I can keep some characters without subclasses. Could I do it with more armor slots? Yes, but I don't want to buy any.

moderatelyfatman

logan68 wrote: »

I came up with an idea for an arcanist combining dark magic, deadra summoning and herald of tomb powers. So i made a character started leveling him and realized I didn't need to do that. I went to my main slotted out lightning put in herald and boom adjusted the states with various pieces of arm and enchants, saved the build in the armory and deleted the alt. No more alt no extra time spent running ESO and since the new content is done ...what am i to do now that the other reason I keep up my sub is alts. As bad as it is sub classing I think has killed the alts like FF14 where there is no reason to create alts either. I think it was a long term mistake made to fix a short term problem.

Nah, it's just my toons now beam in different colours...

idwilson

I consider multi-classing to be a failure as implemented.

I consider my first online game experience (MUME - text MUD) to be the best in terms of multiclass design (no-one has come close to it in 30 years).

You could (and I think still can) choose any skill you want from groups of skills, but the more you specialised in one group then the greater the benefit of specialising.

Perhaps multi-classing here would work better if something similar happened, i.e., reduce the benefit from a subclassed line by a small amount if you choose one line and a greater amount if you choose two. It wouldn't need to be much of a reduction, but just something to keep variety and make it a game style decision.

Then, they wouldn't have needed to (for example) change the Assassin Grim Focus 'passive' to fix OP DPS - the multi-classed beamer would already have a lessor benefit from the line. Then, the nightblade pure class would get the benefit whereas multi-classing would get some of the benefit.

As I understand it, balancing (for example) NBs as a pure class has been sacrificed in the interests of trying reduce the impact of multiclassing....

Vulkunne

logan68 wrote: »

I came up with an idea for an arcanist combining dark magic, deadra summoning and herald of tomb powers. So i made a character started leveling him and realized I didn't need to do that. I went to my main slotted out lightning put in herald and boom adjusted the states with various pieces of arm and enchants, saved the build in the armory and deleted the alt. No more alt no extra time spent running ESO and since the new content is done ...what am i to do now that the other reason I keep up my sub is alts. As bad as it is sub classing I think has killed the alts like FF14 where there is no reason to create alts either. I think it was a long term mistake made to fix a short term problem.

Not quite. In my experience alts are based on need. Although there could be a singular need for numerous alts. The problem with making alts out of want, is because the 'I wants' never end and making new alts is an expensive investment of time and money. What subclass has done is created what I call the 'Super Metas'. The Titans if you will. These are a few variations of the same skill lines that when put together into one 'artificial' class they're so overblown and over-performing that both regular classes and other subclass combinations simply can't compete.

This is the problem with the current rendition of subclassing. It's not the idea itself but I believe it's something never intended to be implemented this way. If you don't agree then go look at results post subclass for Trial runs as things are great for those folks, great for ball groups as well but bad for casuals and others looking to pursue general interests. Balance was bad before and now in some theaters of combat there is no more healthy competition, but at all now. And that's how they want it and that's how it will stay. Everyone is an Assassin now; they a NB, a Sorc. God what an absolute disgraceful scene. I'm so disappointed in how things have turned out here; but not surprised.

magnusthorek

Of course not! Where would I store all that junk I really don't use, but I just might... someday... perhaps...

katanagirl1

DenverRalphy wrote: »

My general approach to participating in content is to "bring the best tool for the job" so to speak.

Prior to subclassing, I had a steady roster of 5 or 6 regularly played characters (out of 14). Each with their own strengths and weaknesses. I was generally very happy with this setup.

Today my actively played roster comprises 2 characters. It was when I went to determine which alt should be the 3rd to get the upgrade treatment when I realized that no matter which one I chose, after subclassing they'd all share the same skill and buff mechanics (albeit with different colors and nomenclature). And then on top of that, I realized that it's not just subclassing directly that has brought this about. But also the general state of gear-sets and how they relate to protection, damage types, buffs, skills, etc.. because now they would all be equiped with the same gear.

Now I recognize that some will wax on about how players are free to choose different skills and gear to fuel the imagination. However, online RPG's are still games where there's a performance competency aspect. While RPG's are essentially games of "Let's pretend" at their core, when the driving force behind the storyline is about a hero capable of defeating all obstacles placed before them, roleplaying a character that's simply "good enough to get by" is rarely an appealing choice. Which is why so many players gravitate towards building the best performing character they can.

So yeah.. tldr: The substantially larger majority of my characters are currently on daily writs/furnishing plan farming duty.

This is pretty much me right now, though I did not subclass. I have most characters just doing daily crafting writs, one main character for master writs and thieving, one character that can still do dungeons, and one PvP character. The state of Gray Host campaign in Cyrodiil is not good right now, so mostly just logging in to do writs and logging out.

YandereGirlfriend

If anything it buffed the alt to give more characters an actual purpose.

What that purpose is for you is ultimately up to you.

But my alts are going strong and loving life.

redlink1979

Nope.
I will keep all my alts. They all have a point.

allochthons

Yes. For me. But it started with hybridization. I initially made a mag and stam version of each class. (I wasn't playing long enough when AWA came out, so that didn't affect me much).

Now I have a crafter/quester, a meta-ish trial/dungeon HM toon, a tank, 3 good healers, and a few others that hit fairly hard I can do WB quests and such on. The rest are just crafting bots. But I don't want to delete them, because I've spent money on skyshards, and researched most of the traits on most of them. Well, I get a ton of master crafter writs, so that's good?

I have made the various support DPSs, and such, but those roles always fill fast in my guilds, so I ended up deconning the gear and using the armory slots for something else.

Having said all that, I don't want to undo hybridization or sub-classing. I like the changes. My issues are minor, and mine, and not ZoS's fault.

NettleCarrier

My alts were primarily only crafting daily mules... I've played a lot less in the last two years and barely touched them, subclassing didn't change anything (yet).

NordSwordnBoard

I like variety, and alts used to provide that. They used to feel more unique. Now, I'm just running (or encouraged to run) the same sets and same skills on characters who's only difference now is apparently cosmetics and 1 base skill line.

I wonder about those players that exclusively heal or tank (either PvE or PvP) - how do you feel now? I had different healers and tanks related to the different things each class brought. Now, I have trouble justifying their existence.

Naltanir

subclassing simply killed the pvp even more than it was