Does Streak Need Adjustment?

albertberku

Solariken

I was in support of removing Major Resolve from Lightning Form and morphs, which is the only adjustment I think this skill line needs. But Streak is fine IMO.

CameraBeardThePirate

Streak is fine. It's expensive, gets more expensive if you spam, and with subclassing, it's much harder to spam without Dark Exchange to carry your sustain.

Yes, it's a very strong ability, but sometimes strong abilities can be left alone. You don't need to nerf every strong ability under the sun.

Besides, I'd argue there are plenty of other abilities drastically overperforming. This meta has so much movement speed that Streak isn't the guaranteed escape it used to be.

Navaac223

I was part of the mob that wailed on sorc because of hardened ward but even I can see that streak is the one thing that defines sorc. You can't remove it without breaking its vibe. Kind of like nb and incap or necro and stalking bb.

Sorc is dead. You can stop kicking it now

i11ionward

In the previous patch, I would have definitely said yes, since the combination of Hardened Ward (with heal) + Streak, along with sustain from Dark Conversion, made a sorc practically immortal in the right hands. It’s also worth noting that in the previous patch, mag sorcs typically had 40–50k magicka, which allowed them to chain a LOT of Streaks in a row (5+ easily, if not more). Now, however, players using Streak usually have around 20–25k magicka, making it unlikely to pull off more than three in a row. Overall, Streak feels less oppressive now.
In the current patch with subclasses, I don’t see any reason why Streak should be nerfed — it’s certainly a strong ability, but I can’t find any solid justification for a nerf.

MincMincMinc

Just like in the other 20 streak threads.

Streak can be cleaned up like on vengeance and made more into a skill shot. Have the stun only occur 5m from the final location. Drastically simplify the code and its draw on the server. Remove the pointless damage tick. Trust me, you do not want streak to have a cooldown. Not only is it not necessary, but you open the door to zos using that as a balance tool in the future. Roll dodges, hots, aoe spam, etc.

Ball of Lightning morph should simply be the reverse of this where it stuns that the starting location. The projectile absorb is pointless since you can roll dodge mid streak anyways to avoid all projectiles.

IMO the infinite projectile absorb was much better for the game. Same goes for wings reflect, Harness magicka sustain, or siphon attacks being a chance on hit without cooldown. Overall the game was so much more interesting back in the day when your skills affected the outcome of the battle to a higher degree compared to now adays where the only thing that matters is how many passives you have slotted and guaranteed effects you spam to avoid any enemy counterplay chance.
To make these exist in the current game, just make them based off of a stat. For instance look at the warden shimmering shield. Just make that block any amount of projectiles for X shield based on max stats or hp.

YandereGirlfriend

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Just like in the other 20 streak threads.

Streak can be cleaned up like on vengeance and made more into a skill shot. Have the stun only occur 5m from the final location. Drastically simplify the code and its draw on the server. Remove the pointless damage tick. Trust me, you do not want streak to have a cooldown. Not only is it not necessary, but you open the door to zos using that as a balance tool in the future. Roll dodges, hots, aoe spam, etc.

Ball of Lightning morph should simply be the reverse of this where it stuns that the starting location. The projectile absorb is pointless since you can roll dodge mid streak anyways to avoid all projectiles.

IMO the infinite projectile absorb was much better for the game. Same goes for wings reflect, Harness magicka sustain, or siphon attacks being a chance on hit without cooldown. Overall the game was so much more interesting back in the day when your skills affected the outcome of the battle to a higher degree compared to now adays where the only thing that matters is how many passives you have slotted and guaranteed effects you spam to avoid any enemy counterplay chance.
To make these exist in the current game, just make them based off of a stat. For instance look at the warden shimmering shield. Just make that block any amount of projectiles for X shield based on max stats or hp.

Yeah, I remember the good old Ball of Lightning.

But then all the Xv1'ers got salty and demanded a nerf.

MincMincMinc

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Just like in the other 20 streak threads.

Streak can be cleaned up like on vengeance and made more into a skill shot. Have the stun only occur 5m from the final location. Drastically simplify the code and its draw on the server. Remove the pointless damage tick. Trust me, you do not want streak to have a cooldown. Not only is it not necessary, but you open the door to zos using that as a balance tool in the future. Roll dodges, hots, aoe spam, etc.

Ball of Lightning morph should simply be the reverse of this where it stuns that the starting location. The projectile absorb is pointless since you can roll dodge mid streak anyways to avoid all projectiles.

IMO the infinite projectile absorb was much better for the game. Same goes for wings reflect, Harness magicka sustain, or siphon attacks being a chance on hit without cooldown. Overall the game was so much more interesting back in the day when your skills affected the outcome of the battle to a higher degree compared to now adays where the only thing that matters is how many passives you have slotted and guaranteed effects you spam to avoid any enemy counterplay chance.
To make these exist in the current game, just make them based off of a stat. For instance look at the warden shimmering shield. Just make that block any amount of projectiles for X shield based on max stats or hp.

Yeah, I remember the good old Ball of Lightning.

But then all the Xv1'ers got salty and demanded a nerf.

Its funny because they never realized that without those tools to solo, how do you expect mid tier and new players to ever solo. Its part of the reason why cyro has dissolved into just large guild group stacking combat and further perpetuates lag.

WuffyCerulei

Really should add an “Other” option, cuz I’d 100% be fine with them taking the damage off Streak. It’s been a staple for sorcs, and has been relatively untouched aside from being made dodgeable. Sure whoever uses it will streak away, but you DON’T need to chase them.

LunaFlora

to me Streak is good and definitely does not need any nerfs.

Buffs would be fine, but i don't have anything in mind that i believe Streak needs.

albertberku

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Really should add an “Other” option, cuz I’d 100% be fine with them taking the damage off Streak. It’s been a staple for sorcs, and has been relatively untouched aside from being made dodgeable

The streak damage is quite negligible, so i assumed removing or keeping it wouldnt really bother anyone. Also since streak comes usually 1 gcd after the burst combo, damage doesnt really add much there. On a side node, streak is not dodgeable, right? Or do i know that wrong?

i11ionward

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Just like in the other 20 streak threads.

Ball of Lightning morph should simply be the reverse of this where it stuns that the starting location. The projectile absorb is pointless since you can roll dodge mid streak anyways to avoid all projectiles.

Just wanted to reply that roll dodging mid streak was nerfed (disabled) some time ago along with the streak jump.

MJallday

i initially said "no change" - but having thought about it. one of the things i find annoying is that people can run half way accros the map of it.. so i think the cost of it needs to be high enough that it gets you out of the area, without being able to transport you from Bruma to Cropsford without running out of resources.

NxJoeyD

Streak does not need a change.

Remember, when talking or thinking about an ability it’s important to consider it in a vacuum. Yes, Streak can be paired with any number of sets or abilities but that’s not a guarantee for all builds and addressing particularly “broken” combinations lies with the combinations themselves, not the single ability.

That said, Streak should not be adjusted at all. First, let’s consider a few things. Yes it’s a high mobility ability but it has drawbacks and counter play. Immo pots are avilable to everyone and although Streak cannot be blocked it can be dodged or intercepted. An AoE CC or damage ability in the path of a Streak can catch a player mid or end Streak, stunning or damaging them.

Further, abilities like Wardens-Wings allow for extra mobility even when carrying PvP objectives; meanwhile Streak is unavailable when the player is carrying a match objective giving it less flexibility in PvP combat.

Lastly, the cost for Streak is high; it’s up there with healing abilities and carries an even higher cost for spam use. Streak also has the least combo / follow up potential of any CC in the game; requiring the user to turn or turn around to follow up with an attack, by which time the opponent has very likely broken free. Consider Temps spear that offers a direct follow up because the player is consistently facing the target.

Sorcs were considered to have great burst potential but, IMO, that was a bit exaggerated. Sorcs never had a true execute ability (Wrath doesn’t scale and has a lower Heath threshold and a reverse-execute passive). The only objectively good bursts were Frags (with the bonus proc) and Curse (since it’s unblockable) .. but Curse can be easily mitigated or out-healed and the rest of the Sorc damage kit generally required the opponent to stand or walk “into-the-stupid” to be effective so most of that was avoidable.

Sorcs had leaned on Destro & world skills for go-to damage. The Sorc skill like was and still is great for utility and that’s kind of the backbone of the class. Now with subclassing pretty much every Sorc grabbed a NB or Temp line.

Wrath got an unnecessary nerf. The cut to 2 seconds paired with subclassing and an equally unnecessarily long animation sees the ability at the bottom of the pack in terms of kill shots. Assassins Blade animates lightning quick & does more damage than Wrath. Templars Radiant deals a ton more damage, at an earlier point, & has heal potential.

Given all of that, the last thing we need to do is adjust Streak. The Devs turned Sorcs into an almost cheerleader class. Yes, they could do damage but they had to borrow from the world more than other classes. For pure damage NB has way more at their disposal but Sorcs are the utility (and pet) class so don’t mess with a utility ability.

MincMincMinc

i11ionward wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Just like in the other 20 streak threads.

Ball of Lightning morph should simply be the reverse of this where it stuns that the starting location. The projectile absorb is pointless since you can roll dodge mid streak anyways to avoid all projectiles.

Just wanted to reply that roll dodging mid streak was nerfed (disabled) some time ago along with the streak jump.

Really, ill have to test again. What about the fast falling?

Turtle_Bot

MincMincMinc wrote: »

i11ionward wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Just like in the other 20 streak threads.

Ball of Lightning morph should simply be the reverse of this where it stuns that the starting location. The projectile absorb is pointless since you can roll dodge mid streak anyways to avoid all projectiles.

Just wanted to reply that roll dodging mid streak was nerfed (disabled) some time ago along with the streak jump.

Really, ill have to test again. What about the fast falling?

Yep, ZOS fixed the ability to jump-cast streak a while ago (around the time ward got buffed) and since then jump streak and roll streak has either been completely impossible or just made infinitely harder to time. As for fast falling with streak, that has not been a thing with streak for ages afaik.

Something to note, and this is something I have tested that still works in U46, mist form still allows for a truly instant teleport under specific conditions, a teleport that is even faster than streaks teleport. This is also something that streak cannot replicate under those same conditions.

Avran_Sylt

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Really should add an “Other” option, cuz I’d 100% be fine with them taking the damage off Streak. It’s been a staple for sorcs, and has been relatively untouched aside from being made dodgeable. Sure whoever uses it will streak away, but you DON’T need to chase them.

Huh, thought that AoE effects were undodgeable. Though I assume this is just another staple of sporadic ZoS conventions taking head again.

BXR_Lonestar

It needs an adjustment, but none of your poll options fit what I'm about to suggest, so I'm just going to say it:

Streak morphs need to be broken down into "offensive morph" and "defensive morph."

For offensive morph, streak should have its current AOE stun, but the streak should be over a relatively short distance (5 meters). This way, you can use it as an opener to your attack, but it has very little utility as a "get away" ability because 5 meters is a very short distance and by the time someone breaks free, they can gapclose or make up that distance with some effort.

For the defensive morph - this is basically the skill you will want to use when you need to bail on an engagement and get away. THIS streak morph will have a long distance dash (what it is currently, IDK what it is, maybe 20m?) but with no stun. This way it really has no offensive utility other than getting TO the fight faster or getting away from the fight faster, but it has no crowd control element to it.

The premises here is that you need to make a choice whether the STUN is the most important facet of streak or if it is the get away ability that is more important. But neither will be particularly great for both applications. IMO, this would be the best way to balance it.

albertberku

Streak is one of the morphs. The skill is called Bolt Escape. I was referring specifically Streak, this poll is not about Bolt Escape or its other morph Ball of Lightning. This is purely about one of its morphs Streak. I dont see the need for a poll for Ball of Lightning, it is not a very useful morph.

I definitely wouldnt add an option to change streak range, you can melee attack around 7-8m range in this game, and gap closers have 22m. Just by running you can also currently catch quite a lot of streak users in the long run, if they dont have huge magicka pool.

Also often neglected in such discussions is that streak cant go hills up or down, you cant outrun a runner with streak downhill or uphill and in Cyrodiil there are almost no paths that dont go uphill or downhill after couple streaks.

NxJoeyD

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

It needs an adjustment, but none of your poll options fit what I'm about to suggest, so I'm just going to say it:

Streak morphs need to be broken down into "offensive morph" and "defensive morph."

For offensive morph, streak should have its current AOE stun, but the streak should be over a relatively short distance (5 meters). This way, you can use it as an opener to your attack, but it has very little utility as a "get away" ability because 5 meters is a very short distance and by the time someone breaks free, they can gapclose or make up that distance with some effort.

For the defensive morph - this is basically the skill you will want to use when you need to bail on an engagement and get away. THIS streak morph will have a long distance dash (what it is currently, IDK what it is, maybe 20m?) but with no stun. This way it really has no offensive utility other than getting TO the fight faster or getting away from the fight faster, but it has no crowd control element to it.

The premises here is that you need to make a choice whether the STUN is the most important facet of streak or if it is the get away ability that is more important. But neither will be particularly great for both applications. IMO, this would be the best way to balance it.

The main problem I see with this suggestion is that Streak is built to be flexible; it’s the only way that it’s competitive as a utility in PvP.

If you take any of Streaks factors away it’s just too weak to be feasible.

A “defensive” streak is essentially a watered down Vampire Mist Form, just worse since it would have no immunity.

An “offensive” streak would also be sub par since mele range is 7m so opponents would effectively be able to strike from outside the range the user could stun.

The only way Streak makes sense as an escape mechanic is because of the stun, since the range plus the animation elements wouldn’t be enough to see someone actually get away from opponents; especially ones running any of the abilities that grant Expedition.

Remember, Streak has counter play drawbacks too; the Immobility pots, the ability to evade the stun via movement speed, the ability to intercept the Streak with an AoE stun or ability. And, the follow up to combo attacks is the worst with streak than other CC abilities.

It makes no sense to change Streak, it’ll be non-competitive in any PvP venue.

MincMincMinc

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

i11ionward wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Just like in the other 20 streak threads.

Ball of Lightning morph should simply be the reverse of this where it stuns that the starting location. The projectile absorb is pointless since you can roll dodge mid streak anyways to avoid all projectiles.

Just wanted to reply that roll dodging mid streak was nerfed (disabled) some time ago along with the streak jump.

Really, ill have to test again. What about the fast falling?

Yep, ZOS fixed the ability to jump-cast streak a while ago (around the time ward got buffed) and since then jump streak and roll streak has either been completely impossible or just made infinitely harder to time. As for fast falling with streak, that has not been a thing with streak for ages afaik.

Something to note, and this is something I have tested that still works in U46, mist form still allows for a truly instant teleport under specific conditions, a teleport that is even faster than streaks teleport. This is also something that streak cannot replicate under those same conditions.

That probably has to do with weird tickrates on the server. You can notice them more with mechanics like cowards gear or a better one is the Dovrha boots.

I have been testing with bloodmist recently and notice weird interactions all the time. TBH its so clunky I think they would be better going back to the old toggle mist pseudo mag block concept that was unique. Otherwise it is just a somehow clunkier streak.

Jestir

At most I think streak should only stun at the end so it it goes all in on being an aggressive engagement tool while bolt escape stuns at the start and is the dedicated escape tool

RebornV3x

It needs a buff its the only skill in the game that your penalized for spamming that needs to be removed