-10% of damage on a havy armor parts
-
PureeEvil✭✭✭
well get it off) i play in my pvp bild in all hi end content except trial. and havent havy armore in there. BG, orig HM in solo, dlc hm, worl boss, IC boss, IC pvp. only for cyro i get special bild. you not need havy armor for all that. before subclassing i have not so muth damage 20-25% on 3d dd. but now all ok in pvp bild too. you not need havy armor too all that.0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Let me repaste my most important point:
The different armor weights ought to be able to achieve a comparable level of overall defense and overall offense, through different means and at different resource costs.
Edit: also the Armor passives were revised more recently, remember when they added the Armor Penalties?
What do you mean by "different resource costs"? Then the one with the smallest resource cost with comparable damage comes out on top.
Med and Light have the Regen and Skill Cost modifiers, Windwalker and Evocation, Heavy has Constitution and Rejuvenation. Importantly, much like DK's passives Combustion and Battle Roar, Heavy's sustain only functions while in combat, whereas Medium and Light's function at all times, in fact they are stronger OUT of combat. This helps promote the Facetank vs Kite playstyle we would expect in Warrior vs Thief.
Kiting implies resource attrition gameplay, but that playstyle is long dead given the ease of self-healing and resource regen to mitigate said lower damage output.
And even when it was alive it was usually the Facetanks bopping each other for long enough for someone to make too many mistakes with their skills or get lucky crits.
Current gameplay is Facetank or nukes, and resource cost reductions don't facilitate nukes, albeit the penetration and WD/SP does, countered by block mitigation ('cept most nuke openers use unblockable BS nowadays) and that all damage modifiers are halved in PvP, making their impact a bit more uncertain compared to hp bonuses. (presumably this is why resolve is less then half of prodigy, albeit it may also be due to the other passives and inherently lower armor stat increasing damage taken)
I'm all about long term fundamentals. Yeah it's a nuke meta, why are we nerfing Heavy then? Ultimately what the OP is fighting against is the long term fundamental that the more balanced a build is, the more efficient it is. With 3 damage lines a new efficiency is found in more Heavy, the nuker can wear more Heavy than last patch.
It's true. But what about 3 patches from now, when some of these skills and sets are nerfed? Armor passives arent revised often.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭The simple reality of these debates is it's Wizard and Thief against Fighter and Cleric and we will never change each other's mindsXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Aces-High-82✭✭✭✭
Since when 7 med for DDs has changed.....well you can argue that 6m1l is better for solo/4man0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you think heavy armor is what is causing players to have 150%+ crit damage, I am not sure what to do.
The damage problem comes from subclassing allowing you to stack unique % crit damage sources. While easily gaining Force buffs that are everywhere in the game now. While getting brittle. With monomyth vastly outpacing the rest of the mythics. While Assassination gives both an unprecedented amount of crit chance and damage. While medium armor also gives a % crit damage buff
No part of heavy armor enables the damage meta. If anything slotting heavy armor lowers your damage considerably. Heavy hasnt been an issue since the stacking WD buff per hit was removed like a decade ago.We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more5 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Let me repaste my most important point:
The different armor weights ought to be able to achieve a comparable level of overall defense and overall offense, through different means and at different resource costs.
Edit: also the Armor passives were revised more recently, remember when they added the Armor Penalties?
What do you mean by "different resource costs"? Then the one with the smallest resource cost with comparable damage comes out on top.
Med and Light have the Regen and Skill Cost modifiers, Windwalker and Evocation, Heavy has Constitution and Rejuvenation. Importantly, much like DK's passives Combustion and Battle Roar, Heavy's sustain only functions while in combat, whereas Medium and Light's function at all times, in fact they are stronger OUT of combat. This helps promote the Facetank vs Kite playstyle we would expect in Warrior vs Thief.
Kiting implies resource attrition gameplay, but that playstyle is long dead given the ease of self-healing and resource regen to mitigate said lower damage output.
And even when it was alive it was usually the Facetanks bopping each other for long enough for someone to make too many mistakes with their skills or get lucky crits.
Current gameplay is Facetank or nukes, and resource cost reductions don't facilitate nukes, albeit the penetration and WD/SP does, countered by block mitigation ('cept most nuke openers use unblockable BS nowadays) and that all damage modifiers are halved in PvP, making their impact a bit more uncertain compared to hp bonuses. (presumably this is why resolve is less then half of prodigy, albeit it may also be due to the other passives and inherently lower armor stat increasing damage taken)
I'm all about long term fundamentals. Yeah it's a nuke meta, why are we nerfing Heavy then? Ultimately what the OP is fighting against is the long term fundamental that the more balanced a build is, the more efficient it is. With 3 damage lines a new efficiency is found in more Heavy, the nuker can wear more Heavy than last patch.
It's true. But what about 3 patches from now, when some of these skills and sets are nerfed? Armor passives arent revised often.
Well, what do you mean by balanced and efficient?
Is a balanced build one that never runs out of resources in a prolonged fight?
Should that come with lower damage potential? Or should they have the same damage potential as other builds that can't fight indefinitely? Should all other builds be unable to exceed the balanced builds damage potential? Why?
Not saying I agree to a whopping -10% damage done in heavy armor (nor that it should include martial damage done reduction), but that's not exactly what I was digging into asking you questions.Urzigurumash wrote: »The simple reality of these debates is it's Wizard and Thief against Fighter and Cleric and we will never change each other's minds
Such assertions are the surest way to eliminate all discourse and promote close-mindedness.Edited by Avran_Sylt on August 5, 2025 2:39PM0 -
PureeEvil✭✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »If you think heavy armor is what is causing players to have 150%+ crit damage, I am not sure what to do.
The damage problem comes from subclassing allowing you to stack unique % crit damage sources. While easily gaining Force buffs that are everywhere in the game now. While getting brittle. With monomyth vastly outpacing the rest of the mythics. While Assassination gives both an unprecedented amount of crit chance and damage. While medium armor also gives a % crit damage buff
No part of heavy armor enables the damage meta. If anything slotting heavy armor lowers your damage considerably. Heavy hasnt been an issue since the stacking WD buff per hit was removed like a decade ago.
what you wanna say? for why you need only 150% of crit for good damage?
that damage and parametrs. whare you see there 150% of crit? you wanna tell you can get same nombers on havy armor?
thats gamplay in that bild. if i change one of set on havy armor i not loose too many in damage.
https://youtu.be/IDGhbqW77Ag
im record gemplay in havy armor on day, and you can see about what i talk.
0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »If you think heavy armor is what is causing players to have 150%+ crit damage, I am not sure what to do.
The damage problem comes from subclassing allowing you to stack unique % crit damage sources. While easily gaining Force buffs that are everywhere in the game now. While getting brittle. With monomyth vastly outpacing the rest of the mythics. While Assassination gives both an unprecedented amount of crit chance and damage. While medium armor also gives a % crit damage buff
No part of heavy armor enables the damage meta. If anything slotting heavy armor lowers your damage considerably. Heavy hasnt been an issue since the stacking WD buff per hit was removed like a decade ago.
what you wanna say? for why you need only 150% of crit for good damage?
that damage and parametrs. whare you see there 150% of crit? you wanna tell you can get same nombers on havy armor?
thats gamplay in that bild. if i change one of set on havy armor i not loose too many in damage.https://youtu.be/IDGhbqW77Ag
im record gemplay in havy armor on day, and you can see about what i talk.
You missed the point of my reason for bringing up the crit damage issue. Armor choice as a layer of the game doesn't really matter. You can tank on medium armor. You can do damage on heavy armor. It hardly matters as a choice compared to other choices like subclassing or set bonuses or cp or mythic.
Also your "results" on random pugs light attacking doesn't prove any point.
If you want armor choices to matter more, the sustain in the game has to be brought down. The major/minor and other unique % bonsues need to be cut in half. The Mundus bonuses need to be balanced out. Sets like wretched need to be balanced. One of the main factors in armor choice was how you sustained, but it simply doesnt matter because sustain is given out like candy.We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more0 -
PureeEvil✭✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »If you think heavy armor is what is causing players to have 150%+ crit damage, I am not sure what to do.
The damage problem comes from subclassing allowing you to stack unique % crit damage sources. While easily gaining Force buffs that are everywhere in the game now. While getting brittle. With monomyth vastly outpacing the rest of the mythics. While Assassination gives both an unprecedented amount of crit chance and damage. While medium armor also gives a % crit damage buff
No part of heavy armor enables the damage meta. If anything slotting heavy armor lowers your damage considerably. Heavy hasnt been an issue since the stacking WD buff per hit was removed like a decade ago.
what you wanna say? for why you need only 150% of crit for good damage?
that damage and parametrs. whare you see there 150% of crit? you wanna tell you can get same nombers on havy armor?
thats gamplay in that bild. if i change one of set on havy armor i not loose too many in damage.https://youtu.be/IDGhbqW77Ag
im record gemplay in havy armor on day, and you can see about what i talk.
You missed the point of my reason for bringing up the crit damage issue. Armor choice as a layer of the game doesn't really matter. You can tank on medium armor. You can do damage on heavy armor. It hardly matters as a choice compared to other choices like subclassing or set bonuses or cp or mythic.
Also your "results" on random pugs light attacking doesn't prove any point.
If you want armor choices to matter more, the sustain in the game has to be brought down. The major/minor and other unique % bonsues need to be cut in half. The Mundus bonuses need to be balanced out. Sets like wretched need to be balanced. One of the main factors in armor choice was how you sustained, but it simply doesnt matter because sustain is given out like candy.
lol cut all in 2) sustane buffs and els. it in youre mind balansed game? xD0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »If you think heavy armor is what is causing players to have 150%+ crit damage, I am not sure what to do.
The damage problem comes from subclassing allowing you to stack unique % crit damage sources. While easily gaining Force buffs that are everywhere in the game now. While getting brittle. With monomyth vastly outpacing the rest of the mythics. While Assassination gives both an unprecedented amount of crit chance and damage. While medium armor also gives a % crit damage buff
No part of heavy armor enables the damage meta. If anything slotting heavy armor lowers your damage considerably. Heavy hasnt been an issue since the stacking WD buff per hit was removed like a decade ago.
what you wanna say? for why you need only 150% of crit for good damage?
that damage and parametrs. whare you see there 150% of crit? you wanna tell you can get same nombers on havy armor?
thats gamplay in that bild. if i change one of set on havy armor i not loose too many in damage.https://youtu.be/IDGhbqW77Ag
im record gemplay in havy armor on day, and you can see about what i talk.
You missed the point of my reason for bringing up the crit damage issue. Armor choice as a layer of the game doesn't really matter. You can tank on medium armor. You can do damage on heavy armor. It hardly matters as a choice compared to other choices like subclassing or set bonuses or cp or mythic.
Also your "results" on random pugs light attacking doesn't prove any point.
If you want armor choices to matter more, the sustain in the game has to be brought down. The major/minor and other unique % bonsues need to be cut in half. The Mundus bonuses need to be balanced out. Sets like wretched need to be balanced. One of the main factors in armor choice was how you sustained, but it simply doesnt matter because sustain is given out like candy.
lol cut all in 2) sustane buffs and els. it in youre mind balansed game? xD
Yeah, that is how you directly reduce power creep and make sustain choices matter. Remember that the major minors used to only be 20% and that was before zos added in many additional flat values like the jewelry wd enchants giving extra or monster sets giving double 1 piece bonuses.
Most pvp builds now adays only sustain off of bear haunch, imperial, and tripots(when needed)We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Let me repaste my most important point:
The different armor weights ought to be able to achieve a comparable level of overall defense and overall offense, through different means and at different resource costs.
Edit: also the Armor passives were revised more recently, remember when they added the Armor Penalties?
What do you mean by "different resource costs"? Then the one with the smallest resource cost with comparable damage comes out on top.
Med and Light have the Regen and Skill Cost modifiers, Windwalker and Evocation, Heavy has Constitution and Rejuvenation. Importantly, much like DK's passives Combustion and Battle Roar, Heavy's sustain only functions while in combat, whereas Medium and Light's function at all times, in fact they are stronger OUT of combat. This helps promote the Facetank vs Kite playstyle we would expect in Warrior vs Thief.
Kiting implies resource attrition gameplay, but that playstyle is long dead given the ease of self-healing and resource regen to mitigate said lower damage output.
And even when it was alive it was usually the Facetanks bopping each other for long enough for someone to make too many mistakes with their skills or get lucky crits.
Current gameplay is Facetank or nukes, and resource cost reductions don't facilitate nukes, albeit the penetration and WD/SP does, countered by block mitigation ('cept most nuke openers use unblockable BS nowadays) and that all damage modifiers are halved in PvP, making their impact a bit more uncertain compared to hp bonuses. (presumably this is why resolve is less then half of prodigy, albeit it may also be due to the other passives and inherently lower armor stat increasing damage taken)
I'm all about long term fundamentals. Yeah it's a nuke meta, why are we nerfing Heavy then? Ultimately what the OP is fighting against is the long term fundamental that the more balanced a build is, the more efficient it is. With 3 damage lines a new efficiency is found in more Heavy, the nuker can wear more Heavy than last patch.
It's true. But what about 3 patches from now, when some of these skills and sets are nerfed? Armor passives arent revised often.
Well, what do you mean by balanced and efficient?
Is a balanced build one that never runs out of resources in a prolonged fight?
Should that come with lower damage potential? Or should they have the same damage potential as other builds that can't fight indefinitely? Should all other builds be unable to exceed the balanced builds damage potential? Why?
Not saying I agree to a whopping -10% damage done in heavy armor (nor that it should include martial damage done reduction), but that's not exactly what I was digging into asking you questions.Urzigurumash wrote: »The simple reality of these debates is it's Wizard and Thief against Fighter and Cleric and we will never change each other's minds
Such assertions are the surest way to eliminate all discourse and promote close-mindedness.
I can't recall a time when somebody changed their mind on account of an argument. Can you?
By efficiency I mean this, in Valenwood terms: an Orc finds the same efficiency in the Serpent that the Bosmer finds in the Warrior.
Stacking similar bonii weakens the effect of each. This is what OP is saying, not that Heavy Armor causes 150% Crit Damage, but that the stacking of multiple Crit Damage class buffs has given greater efficiency to Heavy by making Medium's Crit Damage bonus superfluous.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
MorallyBipolar✭✭✭10% reduction per piece is too much reduction. About half that would make more sense.
But, if heavy armor going to get weight related debuffs, then so should medium and light. Medium armor should have the same percentage healing reduction, and light armor should have the same percentage of armor/defensive reduction.0 -
PureeEvil✭✭✭MorallyBipolar wrote: »10% reduction per piece is too much reduction. About half that would make more sense.
But, if heavy armor going to get weight related debuffs, then so should medium and light. Medium armor should have the same percentage healing reduction, and light armor should have the same percentage of armor/defensive reduction.
ok 5%. 5 part can be compinsate on -5% i think so its need be nearly ~40% debuff for 5 parts.
And your suggestion) First of all, I've already written about scaling. Secondly, if you add a damage reduction debuff to heavy armor, you won't want a healing debuff on medium armor xD
Simply because the survivability of medium armor will be sufficient for 1vsX, but it won't be excessive. And if you add what you want, the damage that seems high now will become enormous.0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭MorallyBipolar wrote: »10% reduction per piece is too much reduction. About half that would make more sense.
But, if heavy armor going to get weight related debuffs, then so should medium and light. Medium armor should have the same percentage healing reduction, and light armor should have the same percentage of armor/defensive reduction.
ok 5%. 5 part can be compinsate on -5% i think so its need be nearly ~40% debuff for 5 parts.
And your suggestion) First of all, I've already written about scaling. Secondly, if you add a damage reduction debuff to heavy armor, you won't want a healing debuff on medium armor xD
Simply because the survivability of medium armor will be sufficient for 1vsX, but it won't be excessive. And if you add what you want, the damage that seems high now will become enormous.
The scaling issue you're talking about applies to literally every stat. You're just focused on Crit Damage and Medium Armor out of your own biases, this is clear by the way you say "everything is fine with Medium".Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast2 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Let me repaste my most important point:
The different armor weights ought to be able to achieve a comparable level of overall defense and overall offense, through different means and at different resource costs.
Edit: also the Armor passives were revised more recently, remember when they added the Armor Penalties?
What do you mean by "different resource costs"? Then the one with the smallest resource cost with comparable damage comes out on top.
Med and Light have the Regen and Skill Cost modifiers, Windwalker and Evocation, Heavy has Constitution and Rejuvenation. Importantly, much like DK's passives Combustion and Battle Roar, Heavy's sustain only functions while in combat, whereas Medium and Light's function at all times, in fact they are stronger OUT of combat. This helps promote the Facetank vs Kite playstyle we would expect in Warrior vs Thief.
Kiting implies resource attrition gameplay, but that playstyle is long dead given the ease of self-healing and resource regen to mitigate said lower damage output.
And even when it was alive it was usually the Facetanks bopping each other for long enough for someone to make too many mistakes with their skills or get lucky crits.
Current gameplay is Facetank or nukes, and resource cost reductions don't facilitate nukes, albeit the penetration and WD/SP does, countered by block mitigation ('cept most nuke openers use unblockable BS nowadays) and that all damage modifiers are halved in PvP, making their impact a bit more uncertain compared to hp bonuses. (presumably this is why resolve is less then half of prodigy, albeit it may also be due to the other passives and inherently lower armor stat increasing damage taken)
I'm all about long term fundamentals. Yeah it's a nuke meta, why are we nerfing Heavy then? Ultimately what the OP is fighting against is the long term fundamental that the more balanced a build is, the more efficient it is. With 3 damage lines a new efficiency is found in more Heavy, the nuker can wear more Heavy than last patch.
It's true. But what about 3 patches from now, when some of these skills and sets are nerfed? Armor passives arent revised often.
Well, what do you mean by balanced and efficient?
Is a balanced build one that never runs out of resources in a prolonged fight?
Should that come with lower damage potential? Or should they have the same damage potential as other builds that can't fight indefinitely? Should all other builds be unable to exceed the balanced builds damage potential? Why?
Not saying I agree to a whopping -10% damage done in heavy armor (nor that it should include martial damage done reduction), but that's not exactly what I was digging into asking you questions.Urzigurumash wrote: »The simple reality of these debates is it's Wizard and Thief against Fighter and Cleric and we will never change each other's minds
Such assertions are the surest way to eliminate all discourse and promote close-mindedness.
I can't recall a time when somebody changed their mind on account of an argument. Can you?
'course. I'm my own example. Have you never changed your opinion based on new knowledge gained through arguments?Urzigurumash wrote: »By efficiency I mean this, in Valenwood terms: an Orc finds the same efficiency in the Serpent that the Bosmer finds in the Warrior.
Orc racial grants 258 WD vs 238 WD from The Warrior
Bosmer racial grants 258 Stamina Regen vs The Serpents 310 regen.
Bosmer Warrior has less raw stats than a Serpent Orc
But I get that you mean: You can find other sources to fill in gaps made by your current character differences to reach a "middle-ground".
Which isn't to say you answered my question.
I suppose to put it in your terms: Who wins: Warrior Orc, or Serpent Orc?Urzigurumash wrote: »Stacking similar bonii weakens the effect of each. This is what OP is saying, not that Heavy Armor causes 150% Crit Damage, but that the stacking of multiple Crit Damage class buffs has given greater efficiency to Heavy by making Medium's Crit Damage bonus superfluous.
Ah, didn't think you were giving credence to their argument, you came off rather combative initially suggesting OP was only asking for that because they're a ganker, I see you changed your tune after reading more into their argument, but I do agree with it being "too soon to change other things"
0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Serpent Orc wins, and wins against Serpent Bosmer, but stalemates against Warrior Bosmer. This idea plays out in theory and practice throughout ESO PvP in my experience.
So my read of OPs point is that the most efficient builds "should" be in Medium.
To me, DW & Bow? Yes 100%. 2h & SnB? No, that's "supposed" to be in Heavy.
If it's an Orc anyhow. If it's a Nord, maybe in Medium. That's what I mean by balanced and efficient, my point there is clear right?Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah once I wrapped around my head around OP's point about "scaling reduction" I understood how they have a complaint about Heavy when TTK right now is relatively short overall.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Serpent Orc wins, and wins against Serpent Bosmer, but stalemates against Warrior Bosmer. This idea plays out in theory and practice throughout ESO PvP in my experience.
So my read of OPs point is that the most efficient builds "should" be in Medium.
To me, DW & Bow? Yes 100%. 2h & SnB? No, that's "supposed" to be in Heavy.
If it's an Orc anyhow. If it's a Nord, maybe in Medium. That's what I mean by balanced and efficient, my point there is clear right?
So you believe in one ruling playstyle above all others. Got it.0 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I wanted to praise the subclassing and the entire update until I reached the highest mmr on BG on new acc. And it's about what happened to heavy armor. Or rather, what kind of damage can now be taken in full heavy armor. Due to the possibilities of sub-classing, as well as the reduction of damage scaling after a certain number of spd/wpd, we have equal damage for 3-5 parts havy armor playrs and playrse in middle/light armor. And that's not even taking into account the new bash builds. Vampire builds that reduce your health from 50,000 to 30,000 and deal a lot of damage. and that not normal. Havy armor cant give get damage level middle/light armor with only 5% speed debuff its not normal.
My suggestion is to add -10% damage to each piece of heavy armor in their debuffs. It doesn't affect PvE in any way. However, in PvP, it removes the ridiculous similarity in damage between medium and heavy armor. Alternatively, it can be used to remove the scaling reduction.
I like my one piece heavy Sargent's Mail in PvE. If it's for PvP, then suggesting something "while under battle spirit" would be much better.1 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Serpent Orc wins, and wins against Serpent Bosmer, but stalemates against Warrior Bosmer. This idea plays out in theory and practice throughout ESO PvP in my experience.
So my read of OPs point is that the most efficient builds "should" be in Medium.
To me, DW & Bow? Yes 100%. 2h & SnB? No, that's "supposed" to be in Heavy.
If it's an Orc anyhow. If it's a Nord, maybe in Medium. That's what I mean by balanced and efficient, my point there is clear right?
So you believe in one ruling playstyle above all others. Got it.
Versus those who think Heavy should be exclusively for purely Defensive roles, like people who want Maim on Heavy? How could you say such a thing? Orcs wear Heavy Armor, read any random lorebook in Wrothgar, Knights wear Heavy Armor, look at any depiction of medieval combat ever.
But you believe everyone should wear 7 Medium? It's an awful idea, don't know how you could love it so muchXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast2 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Serpent Orc wins, and wins against Serpent Bosmer, but stalemates against Warrior Bosmer. This idea plays out in theory and practice throughout ESO PvP in my experience.
So my read of OPs point is that the most efficient builds "should" be in Medium.
To me, DW & Bow? Yes 100%. 2h & SnB? No, that's "supposed" to be in Heavy.
If it's an Orc anyhow. If it's a Nord, maybe in Medium. That's what I mean by balanced and efficient, my point there is clear right?
So you believe in one ruling playstyle above all others. Got it.
Versus those who think Heavy should be exclusively for purely Defensive roles, like people who want Maim on Heavy? How could you say such a thing? Orcs wear Heavy Armor, read any random lorebook in Wrothgar, Knights wear Heavy Armor, look at any depiction of medieval combat ever.
But you believe everyone should wear 7 Medium? It's an awful idea, don't know how you could love it so much
No, one ruling stat distribution. One singular mechanical approach to the game, albeit in different colors, highly effective at shutting out other stat distributions.0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭What now? I just believe Mechanics should recommend Theme, Build Elements should help write the stories we all know in Fantasy.
I think I can actually AGREE with @PureeEvil , now that I think about it: Heavy Armor should reduce CRIT Damage, not ALL damage!
You know, like the Malacath ring, God of the Orcs!
Edited by Urzigurumash on August 5, 2025 10:21PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Meiox✭✭✭✭
well get it off) i play in my pvp bild in all hi end content except trial. and havent havy armore in there. BG, orig HM in solo, dlc hm, worl boss, IC boss, IC pvp. only for cyro i get special bild. you not need havy armor for all that. before subclassing i have not so muth damage 20-25% on 3d dd. but now all ok in pvp bild too. you not need havy armor too all that.
oakensoul and seargent mail you have 1 heavy piece0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »What now? I just believe Mechanics should recommend Theme, Build Elements should help write the stories we all know in Fantasy.
I think I can actually AGREE with @PureeEvil , now that I think about it: Heavy Armor should reduce CRIT Damage, not ALL damage!
You know, like the Malacath ring, God of the Orcs!
Gotcha, and yeah, current stats means that there is generally one ruling "theme".
Ranger: Brawlers have access to so much speed/mobility (Swift/Major Expedition, Bolt Escape, Gap closers), healing (Healing scaling with Damage) and attrition resistance (Falcon/Snowtreaders/Free break-frees and immunity windows) that playing keep away isn't an option. Try using Vault and that Brawler is going to have already run the distance and readied their attack. Ranged combat is basically worthless.
Assassin: The highest burst damage setup in the game is found from delayed burst damage abilities that all revolve around being in combat/disallowing stealth (Scorch (animal companion + damage passives)/Tome Bearers Inspiration (it works on all class abilities from any class, + damage passives)/Surprise Attack(+ damage passives, although you'd likely use Teleport Strike to leverage mobility, or Dawnbreaker for a stun), with Ulfsild's Contingency. This is enough setup that if no one notices you applying all these effects they might be afk. Better to build tank/brawlers sword and board to take advantage of all those defensive aspects while setting up hitting someone with 4 abilities at the same time. timers on this mean the only way you're hitting anyone by surprise is using an invisibility potion and you then have 8s to move. Congratulations your assassin in now a brawler.
Tank: This does exist, although I haven't looked into the gear needed for it.
Healer: This role does exist as well, cross healing is very powerful, and since all healing scales with WD, your brawlers can side-heal too.
Basically right now (and well, in all of ESO's history) brawling has continually been powercrept through stats: Can't range 'em down or attrition them because of snowtreaders and movespeed sources, healing levels as they are now means they heal up in one/two GCD. So if you don't build brawler yourself well get ready for a brawl if you engage, especially so in field battles. Miat's accessibility addon showing when to dodge/block incoming projectiles certainly doesn't help ranged attacks actually land and gives brawlers even more security.
Bursting them down as an assassin in a field battle is prohibitively dangerous given the prevalence of 42m detect pots (because the other revealing skills are absolutely worthless) and the sacrifice of your own stats to make lesser burst more impactful hitting hard, and failure is met with them getting healed to full once again and you getting popped.
Immunities/cleanses/heals are so prevalent that trying to be a support attritionist with roots/snares/pulls basically does nothing against brawlers.
Not to mention most groups have shared sets so they have a statistical advantage, which all heavily favors a brawling playstyle.
It's why all coordinated ballgroups in PvP are melee blobs.0 -
PureeEvil✭✭✭
well get it off) i play in my pvp bild in all hi end content except trial. and havent havy armore in there. BG, orig HM in solo, dlc hm, worl boss, IC boss, IC pvp. only for cyro i get special bild. you not need havy armor for all that. before subclassing i have not so muth damage 20-25% on 3d dd. but now all ok in pvp bild too. you not need havy armor too all that.
oakensoul and seargent mail you have 1 heavy piece
if you whant I give you a pack of better solo builds with out havy armor0 -
Meiox✭✭✭✭
well get it off) i play in my pvp bild in all hi end content except trial. and havent havy armore in there. BG, orig HM in solo, dlc hm, worl boss, IC boss, IC pvp. only for cyro i get special bild. you not need havy armor for all that. before subclassing i have not so muth damage 20-25% on 3d dd. but now all ok in pvp bild too. you not need havy armor too all that.
oakensoul and seargent mail you have 1 heavy piece
if you whant I give you a pack of better solo builds with out havy armor
are they as easy to play and with the same low amount of clicks per minute?
because thats the reason I use it and not because of the dps done0 -
PureeEvil✭✭✭
well get it off) i play in my pvp bild in all hi end content except trial. and havent havy armore in there. BG, orig HM in solo, dlc hm, worl boss, IC boss, IC pvp. only for cyro i get special bild. you not need havy armor for all that. before subclassing i have not so muth damage 20-25% on 3d dd. but now all ok in pvp bild too. you not need havy armor too all that.
oakensoul and seargent mail you have 1 heavy piece
if you whant I give you a pack of better solo builds with out havy armor
are they as easy to play and with the same low amount of clicks per minute?
because thats the reason I use it and not because of the dps done
no all my builds are two-panel and not very simple. But if you need one panel, you can do it now without any problems on medium armor with two skills and decent damage/healing.0 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
well get it off) i play in my pvp bild in all hi end content except trial. and havent havy armore in there. BG, orig HM in solo, dlc hm, worl boss, IC boss, IC pvp. only for cyro i get special bild. you not need havy armor for all that. before subclassing i have not so muth damage 20-25% on 3d dd. but now all ok in pvp bild too. you not need havy armor too all that.
oakensoul and seargent mail you have 1 heavy piece
if you whant I give you a pack of better solo builds with out havy armor
I prefer oakensoul + 1 heavy piece, thank you. So, your suggestion not affecting PvE is not quite true. Using something "while under battle spirit" would solve this issue (since it looks like there is no chance of them balancing PvP and PvE separately).1 -
randconfig✭✭✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »So you love the 3 shot meta and want it reduced to two? No offense but you must be new here cuz this is like the 3rd most suggested change for PvP, presumably always by gankers
No offense, but you kinda sound new too
No offense, but you sound offensive lol0 -
randconfig✭✭✭✭✭
True, maybe it could be having more than 1 piece of heavy armor lowers your damage by like 3% per piece. Obviously 10% is way too much.0