Well, it finally happened. I won't be renewing my ESO+ subscription.

fizzylu · June 22

Cooperharley wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

They're cosmetics.

They don't affect gameplay in any way.

I’ve always disliked this POV personally. Here’s why:

Excessive monetization & cosmetics takes away from actual earnable in game assets. Veteran player retention is at an all time low as it’s decreased year after year and it’s due to poor repeatable gameplay loops: not a lot worth doing end game wise. It’s a structural/foundational issue, but always a time spent vs time rewarded issue as well.

Cue the "but it's a f2p game, they need to make money somehow" people.

But jokes aside, everything you said is correct.... it's just sad that the majority of people that remain on these forums and even in-game would never willingly accept or admit this fact because it goes against ESO and Zenimax.

AngryPenguin · June 22

Isn't ZOS required by law to make these items available in some fashion to those of us in countries where gambling crates are illegal and we can't even buy them? For instance, selling the items outright or making them available in game somehow. Otherwise the only way to get these items is to buy crates in a country where it's against the law to sell and buy gambling crates.

This system was very poorly thought out and I suspect ZOS might be hearing some official complaints from the countries where this kind of marketing is outlawed. I don't think those defending this or even some at ZOS realize just how inappropriate and possibly illegal this marketing scheme is....at least for those of us who are in countries who rightfully do not allow the sales of gambling crates.

jristaub17_ESO · June 22

I occasionally spend some money on crowns and buy crates. I've won some nice mounts, too, over the years. I am a subscriber, too, so its not like I have a problem paying for a game or anything like that.

However, I limit myself, and I don't chase every mount in every style of crate, every time they release something new. If I have the gems, I'll buy a mount I really like, but its only happened a couple of times.

When I saw the new style of crates, with the attempt to DOUBLE DIP to get people to spend significantly more money chasing mount styles that, really, are not actually all that great...I was pretty miffed. I still have crowns and gems left over from the last time I purchased, which was months ago...I'll be holding onto them until the next set of crates.

There comes a point at which a line must be drawn...and this double dipping by ZOS really gives you that "its just wrong" feeling in the gut. I hope they don't propagate this idiotic idea into the next set of crates. I mean, heck, 1600-2500 gems for a nice mount is a lot! Now they want EVEN MORE? When you consider how much real world money it usually actually takes to acquire that many gems in the first place...it feels very, very wrong.

sarahthes · June 22

Dock01 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

They're cosmetics.

They don't affect gameplay in any way.

No, they don't affect YOUR gameplay. Some people play MMORPG's to collect tons of armor and mounts, to create a style and look for their main and alts characters. When these "cosmetics" cost, I dunna....$500.00 to obtain in a game we already paid for, in a chapter we already paid for with a subscription we already paid for...well then ya, customers like the OP have a right to complain because it absolutely affects how they play the game.

There are quite a few mounts that don't require money other than buying chapters. Some of them are pretty nice looking.

Irrelevant and does not address my post.

I mentioned that you don't need to spend money to get attractive mounts. I don't see how that's irrelevant to you complaining about spending money on attractive mounts.

Becuase I did not argue about spending money on attractive mounts. You stated

sarahthes wrote: »

They're cosmetics.

They don't affect gameplay in any way.

And I corrected you on the fact that not everyone plays the same way you do. Some people play for cosmetics, which does affect their gameplay.

Suggesting that players can get a handful of mounts in game does not negate what you said, inferring that everyone plays like you do.

You can't play for cosmetics with the crown store. That's not gameplay. Gameplay is scrying, doing events to earn tickets to get mounts, doing quests to unlock mounts (I think Necrom had one?), and doing trial trifectas to earn mounts. Swiping a credit card is not gameplay, so crown crate cosmetics do not involve gameplay in any way.

No, anything that involves the game is gameplay. Anything once you are past the log in screen is "playing the game".

It's not. The developers in this game don't even consider that way. Shop items are not gameplay because they do not involve play.

That is not a matter for them to develop on. Its a fundamental fact that if you are inside a game, past the log in screen playing it, you are playing it. It's all part of the gameplay.

Crown crates only take place in game, not outside of the game. Opening a crown crate is in fact gameplay, no one has the authority to cherry pick a definition of what gameplay is.

Sitting down with Pacrooti and opening crown crates is no different than playing TOT. Its part of the game, its part of the gameplay. Its not combat, but its still playing the game.

Personally, I use my radiant apex mounts to flex how much money I have irl. I'm very good at the game of making money and spending it, which is about the only gameplay there is to buying crown crates.

I own real estate , office buildings, apartments, a 1,076,391 square foot ranch, plus a few others. I've done well for myself. So seeing someone flex a game mount like it proves something? Kinda funny, honestly. Not sure who you're trying to impress, but it says more about you than you think.

They’re not getting a cent from me. I see no value in predatory tactics like that. Sure, I could afford it easily but if someone tries to sell me fool’s gold for the price of the real thing, the answer will always be no.

My sarcasm didn't come across very well LOL.

fizzylu · June 22

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Isn't ZOS required by law to make these items available in some fashion to those of us in countries where gambling crates are illegal and we can't even buy them? For instance, selling the items outright or making them available in game somehow. Otherwise the only way to get these items is to buy crates in a country where it's against the law to sell and buy gambling crates.

That's why endeavors were added to the game, to workaround those laws (and it's crazy how many people thought and still think they were added to just be a little bonus to players, when it was really to cover themselves). And as you said; there are countries where you can't get crown crates because they are considered illegal even with the endeavors system. And if Zenimax just let those countries buy the stuff flat-out.... well, imagine the outrage Zenimax would get from the people in countries that are still dropping hundreds to thousands of dollars on crown crates to get an item. That'd be significantly worse from where they're standing, especially since their goal clearly IS to have people drop that much.

It's really sad, but it's more sad that people defend this system.

LPapirius · June 23

fizzylu wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Isn't ZOS required by law to make these items available in some fashion to those of us in countries where gambling crates are illegal and we can't even buy them? For instance, selling the items outright or making them available in game somehow. Otherwise the only way to get these items is to buy crates in a country where it's against the law to sell and buy gambling crates.

That's why endeavors were added to the game, to workaround those laws (and it's crazy how many people thought and still think they were added to just be a little bonus to players, when it was really to cover themselves). And as you said; there are countries where you can't get crown crates because they are considered illegal even with the endeavors system. And if Zenimax just let those countries buy the stuff flat-out.... well, imagine the outrage Zenimax would get from the people in countries that are still dropping hundreds to thousands of dollars on crown crates to get an item. That'd be significantly worse from where they're standing, especially since their goal clearly IS to have people drop that much.

It's really sad, but it's more sad that people defend this system.

I agree. What else should we expect from a company that designs predatory marketing systems for the purpose of circumventing laws to protect minors and those with compulsive gambling issues?

JJBoomer · June 23

Everything should be earnable in game imo.

Waseem · June 23

We all do not renew our ESO+ Anymore

I personally always disable my ESO+ after buying a 365day subscription

ADarklore · June 23

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

They're cosmetics.

They don't affect gameplay in any way.

No, they don't affect YOUR gameplay. Some people play MMORPG's to collect tons of armor and mounts, to create a style and look for their main and alts characters. When these "cosmetics" cost, I dunna....$500.00 to obtain in a game we already paid for, in a chapter we already paid for with a subscription we already paid for...well then ya, customers like the OP have a right to complain because it absolutely affects how they play the game.

Yes, you paid for the game (that doesn't mean you get everything added in the future for free) and yes, you may subscribe but store items are not part of your subscription. ZOS needs MONEY to keep the game going... they cannot pay the bills and generate revenue to appease investors based on good feelings and hugs. They need a constant flow of cash, and they've stated before the ESO+ does not cover the expenses.

ImpOfThePerverse415 · June 23

*sees Ferrari*
*shreds drivers license in frustration*

Veinblood1965 · June 23

I have never bought crates except in exchange for gold. I saw that in the crown store and researched what it meant and came across this thread. It does leave a really bad taste in my mouth, it seems ZoS is opening the door for governments to step in and regulate though as feels tailored to get people addicted to this sort of thing more than it already was even with endeavors supposedly meant to allow people to acquire items without "gambling". My final feelings about the matter are that they should be ashamed of themselves but then with less people playing new money has to come from somewhere to offset the loss but there are better ways than this.

Sluggy · June 23

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Hiya! Game developer here. Microtransactions is not gameplay.

Paid-cosmetics may be something you can enjoy in-game, but it's the same way you enjoy popcorn in the movie theatre: yes, you paid for the popcorn to enhance your movie-going experience, but the important bit is that it's not part of the movie.

Hiya! Also game developer, here.

I disagree.

Pixiepumpkin · June 23

ADarklore wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

They're cosmetics.

They don't affect gameplay in any way.

No, they don't affect YOUR gameplay. Some people play MMORPG's to collect tons of armor and mounts, to create a style and look for their main and alts characters. When these "cosmetics" cost, I dunna....$500.00 to obtain in a game we already paid for, in a chapter we already paid for with a subscription we already paid for...well then ya, customers like the OP have a right to complain because it absolutely affects how they play the game.

Yes, you paid for the game (that doesn't mean you get everything added in the future for free) and yes, you may subscribe but store items are not part of your subscription. ZOS needs MONEY to keep the game going... they cannot pay the bills and generate revenue to appease investors based on good feelings and hugs. They need a constant flow of cash, and they've stated before the ESO+ does not cover the expenses.

The discussion is not about ZOS making money, please re-read the thread and reply appropriately.

Secondly, and I find this amusing. I have never seen someone so hell bent on making sure ZOS makes tons of money (they make around 17 million a month, pretty sure they could cut prices in half and still pay the bills..no in fact they could cut prices by 3/4 and still show quartly profit).

SerafinaWaterstar · June 24

Zos should just put the items in the crown store & let people buy the actual items they want. They’d still be making money, and they then might not look so ethically dubious.

CalamityCat · June 24

ADarklore wrote: »

Yes, you paid for the game (that doesn't mean you get everything added in the future for free) and yes, you may subscribe but store items are not part of your subscription. ZOS needs MONEY to keep the game going... they cannot pay the bills and generate revenue to appease investors based on good feelings and hugs. They need a constant flow of cash, and they've stated before the ESO+ does not cover the expenses.

There is no flavour of "poor ZOS need money to keep the lights on" that justifies crate gambling with such predatory marketing/pricing. That's the first thing you see in the crown store. What a great first impression for a new player. If they even understand how the "offer" works.

If ZOS really wanted the money, I think they should have kept quiet about subclassing until they sold more season passes

Recently the crown store looks like there's a growing desperation to extract money from players. Without an emphasis on making good quality items. I've gone from buying multiple things a week to genuinely not seeing anything I'd use if it was free. I'm happy to support a quality game and pay a premium fixed price for something that actually looks good. Always have been. But the expensive items just look trashier as their prices rise. Or the pet looks okay, but they gave it a pyrotechnic display whenever you mount and it sprinkles stardust as you ride. It's like we're all supposed to have the aesthetic taste of a rich five-year-old on a sugar rush...

tom6143346 · June 24

Everytime I log back in after a long brake , to see how the game evolves and thinking zenimax can’t do worse then the last time they proof me wrong😄 what a predatory move . After I seen this it made me logg out. Maybe they really do better in the future , I guess will see. See you next try 🙂