Subclasses as currently on PTS is a bad idea. They need to scrap it and go a different route.

Holycannoli

After 11 years, after all our theorycrafting, grinding gear, golding gear, learning rotations, they're throwing it ALL out and reinventing the game with their idea of "subclasses"

Subclasses should be like, let's say Path of Exile. In POE you can further specialize your Templar with a choice of 3 "subclasses": Inquisitor, Hierophant or Guardian. I think one of them focuses on buffing elemental damage, another totems and a skill called Arcane Surge, and the last one defense and survival. You're not mixing and matching skills from other classes and throwing all notions of balance out the window, you're further specializing your Templar.

Most games with subclasses have their own name for it (POE calls itAscendancy Classes) and they function more or less the same way: Base class + specialization. It’s not Warrior + Mage or Death knight + Rogue (WoW) because that's asinine and impossible to balance.

They should have given us actual subclasses and specializations instead of this. How about sorcerer subclasses that focus either on pets, lightning damage or damage shields? Proper subclasses would have given us new passives to buff specific aspects of our base class and maybe even given all new skills we haven’t seen yet. We need new skills! This would have been the perfect opportunity but nope.

Forget all that gear you spent time on, none of that counts now. Have to start over again and everyone will be basically the same combination of skills and right now as it stands everyone will want arc + necro. If that combo is nerfed another combo will be clear winner and that's what we will see everywhere.

Plus pure classes are nerfed. If you don’t want to subclass you are penalized. How is that possibly acceptable?

Why, after 11 years, are they reinventing the game? I remember another game that reinvented itself: Star Wars Galaxies. Enough said.

EDIT: Oh and I forgot scribing, you know that new system that lets us customize our classes already. What’s even the point of scribing after this?

Bo0137

I've been playing since the launch in 2014 and I must say I absolutely love the subclassing. It's the best system to come to ESO so far. I can't control my excitement.
And it makes so much sense to "break the wheel" starting the second decade of ESO!
IMO you don't have to start your grinding all over again. I've been playing my NB with vicious ophidian for as long as I can remember. And he will still be able to do most content. Not optimal, but fine.
There are builds that utilize night mother's gaze still today.
ZOS is offering fun and there are people worried it will break the meta. It's a very shallow argument.
The game is due to live many more decades. We can't force it to stagnate, it has to reinvent itself from time to time.
And it's not like you won't be fine with your 10 year old build. Most content is achievable with scraps already.

ThoraxtheDark

Bo0137 wrote: »

I've been playing since the launch in 2014 and I must say I absolutely love the subclassing. It's the best system to come to ESO so far. I can't control my excitement.
And it makes so much sense to "break the wheel" starting the second decade of ESO!
IMO you don't have to start your grinding all over again. I've been playing my NB with vicious ophidian for as long as I can remember. And he will still be able to do most content. Not optimal, but fine.
There are builds that utilize night mother's gaze still today.
ZOS is offering fun and there are people worried it will break the meta. It's a very shallow argument.
The game is due to live many more decades. We can't force it to stagnate, it has to reinvent itself from time to time.
And it's not like you won't be fine with your 10 year old build. Most content is achievable with scraps already.

None of this addresses his points except the first thing.

Why do people come here to just say the thing on Their mind rather than contribute to his already ongoing post lol.

Im glad you like subclassing but they made some interesting points regarding other games and maybe focus on that so you aren't deterring the conversation

ThoraxtheDark

Holycannoli wrote: »

After 11 years, after all our theorycrafting, grinding gear, golding gear, learning rotations, they're throwing it ALL out and reinventing the game with their idea of "subclasses"

Subclasses should be like, let's say Path of Exile. In POE you can further specialize your Templar with a choice of 3 "subclasses": Inquisitor, Hierophant or Guardian. I think one of them focuses on buffing elemental damage, another totems and a skill called Arcane Surge, and the last one defense and survival. You're not mixing and matching skills from other classes and throwing all notions of balance out the window, you're further specializing your Templar.

Most games have their own name for subclassing (POE calls them Ascendancy Classes) and they function more or less the same way: Base class + specialization, not Warrior + Mage or Death knight + Rogue (WoW) because that's asinine and impossible to balance.

They should have given us actual subclasses and specializations instead of this. How about sorcerer subclasses that focus either on pets, lightning damage or damage shields? Proper subclasses would have given us new passives to buff specific aspects of our blade class and maybe even given all new skills we haven’t seen yet.

Forget all that gear you spent time on, none of that counts now. Have to start over again and everyone will be basically the same combination of skills and right now as it stands everyone will want arc + necro. If that combo is nerfed another combo will be clear winner and that's what we will see everywhere.

Plus pure classes are nerfed. If you don’t want to subclass you are penalized. How is that possibly acceptable?

Why, after 11 years, are they reinventing the game? I remember another game that reinvented itself: Star Wars Galaxies. Enough said.

Yeah i prefer the path of exile subclass system and would be much more exciting than just saying " here you go have all the skills " .

Seems a little late in the game to introduce this and most likely a last ditch effort at class balance

Holycannoli

ThoraxtheDark wrote: »

Yeah i prefer the path of exile subclass system and would be much more exciting than just saying " here you go have all the skills " .

Seems a little late in the game to introduce this and most likely a last ditch effort at class balance

If they’re going for class balance with this they went about it ALL wrong. This kind of “subclassing” is the least balanced possible.

xylena_lazarow

This is awesome. PvP has been a solved meta for quite some time, finally some new toys arrive. Will there be some broken builds? Yeah, who cares, there are already a ton of toxic broken builds that make people quit. At least now, everyone can crutch on something overpowered if they need to. That's how you close the gap.

Tandor

Clearly ZOS decided to go down the route of meeting halfway those who wanted the ability to change class rather than adding specialist skill trees to existing classes as is common in other games. In doing so they have created something very different to other games and it's looking like it will excite a lot of players including pulling back a lot of former players.

It'll be interesting to see how it works out, and provided the existing classes aren't altered too much to accommodate subclassing then it should remain optional so if players don't want it they don't need to have it. Interestingly, it's being introduced as a base game feature that is entirely free, when it was clear that if they had gone down the alternative route of class change tokens as some players were requesting they would undoubtedly have been introduced through the Crown Store.

Ragnarok0130

Tandor wrote: »

Clearly ZOS decided to go down the route of meeting halfway those who wanted the ability to change class rather than adding specialist skill trees to existing classes as is common in other games. In doing so they have created something very different to other games and it's looking like it will excite a lot of players including pulling back a lot of former players.

It'll be interesting to see how it works out, and provided the existing classes aren't altered too much to accommodate subclassing then it should remain optional so if players don't want it they don't need to have it. Interestingly, it's being introduced as a base game feature that is entirely free, when it was clear that if they had gone down the alternative route of class change tokens as some players were requesting they would undoubtedly have been introduced through the Crown Store.

That half way solves nothing. It would have been better to just give us a class change token that we've requested for years and then add in the OP’s version of sub classes that sounds awesome and doesn’t break the game’s combat balance and penalize those who don’t want to do ZoS’ version of subclasses. Under the current version of subclassing those who don’t want to subclass will be penalized with far less performance.

Holycannoli

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

This is awesome. PvP has been a solved meta for quite some time, finally some new toys arrive. Will there be some broken builds? Yeah, who cares, there are already a ton of toxic broken builds that make people quit. At least now, everyone can crutch on something overpowered if they need to. That's how you close the gap.

I’m personally expecting Cyrodiil to become more like the Vengeance test we did, so while it might affect BGs and IC I don’t think subclasses will be around for long in Cyrodiil.

Tandor wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how it works out, and provided the existing classes aren't altered too much to accommodate subclassing then it should remain optional so if players don't want it they don't need to have it.

There are already a lot of nerfs to classes and it’s suspected it’s because it now has to be balanced around subclasses.

If there was a bonus to remaining a pure class I could be OK with this, but the nerfs seem implemented because without them subclasses would be OP (and some already are if reports are to be believed), so if you don’t subclass you become underpowered. That’s what I don’t like.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

With there already being a thread opened on this subject here, we're going to go ahead and close this one down.

Thank you for understanding.