I Changed My Mind...

wolfie1.0.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

Here's the thing: You can't just give out any skill tree, since each class was designed with a damage tree, a tank tree, and a healing tree. You can give out three damage trees, or three healing trees, but in the end, don't be surprised if you're lacking something. so it's easy to fall into this trap

Yes, this is called balance, subclassing does in fact have a high opportunity cost.

The game is dying because the combat has been designed around the bottom 1% and top 1% for the past decade, leaving the game a mess for the other 98% of players. Subclassing is finally something for the middle 98% to have more power, do the content they want to do, have the tools in their kit to keep up with sweatier players, and yes crutch on something overpowered like the Arc beam if they need the help to clear. This is not a bad thing.

The top 1% will still be in their own little world of score pushing and KDA obsessing, with their narrow restrictive meta of only the most ruthlessly efficient builds and comps, like the top 1% in every game.

Wasn't scribing supposed to do that?

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

After removing a few comments, we would like to ask that all post please be kept on the subject at hand.

Regards,
-Greg-

Ragnarok0130

Wereswan wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

I'm genuinely tempted to just take a break from ESO and see how things look in six months when the changes have settled in and been further balanced a bit.

Very much this. What they're doing, with the sheer number of new variables and interactions and changes all at once, would be difficult for a well-staffed, highly competent team to balance in the short amount of time before PTS goes to live. I have nothing against the *idea*, but it's half baked and we'll be dealing with the fallout over several updates.

I know some really enjoy all of the tinkering and theory crafting and endless arguing over every skill and every change, but there are also those of us who are more interested in actually playing the game... this has the potential to be enormously disruptive to groups working on trials; players who regularly pvp or do dungeons together; players moving from lower end content to mid to end game content or trying to get into pvp; etc.

Instead of playing, we'll be trying to wrap our heads around all the changes, which will just change again and changed back and rechanged, in a "throw some darts and see what sticks" manner. Then grinding and leveling up skill lines and skills instead of enjoying the game. Then the next round of balance changes will start the process over again.

I know many who are likely to just sit it out and wait for things to settle (like most of the relaxed trial group in one of my social guilds) and tbh I'm planning to join them.

"Login, do daily writs, logout" is probably going to be my plan until the dust settles.

The only issue with this course of action is that ZoS still sees you “playing” so your actual absence in game won’t be shown in metrics to encourage ZoS to backtrack. If you take a break it’s far better to not log in at all to make a point.

Wereswan

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

I'm genuinely tempted to just take a break from ESO and see how things look in six months when the changes have settled in and been further balanced a bit.

Very much this. What they're doing, with the sheer number of new variables and interactions and changes all at once, would be difficult for a well-staffed, highly competent team to balance in the short amount of time before PTS goes to live. I have nothing against the *idea*, but it's half baked and we'll be dealing with the fallout over several updates.

I know some really enjoy all of the tinkering and theory crafting and endless arguing over every skill and every change, but there are also those of us who are more interested in actually playing the game... this has the potential to be enormously disruptive to groups working on trials; players who regularly pvp or do dungeons together; players moving from lower end content to mid to end game content or trying to get into pvp; etc.

Instead of playing, we'll be trying to wrap our heads around all the changes, which will just change again and changed back and rechanged, in a "throw some darts and see what sticks" manner. Then grinding and leveling up skill lines and skills instead of enjoying the game. Then the next round of balance changes will start the process over again.

I know many who are likely to just sit it out and wait for things to settle (like most of the relaxed trial group in one of my social guilds) and tbh I'm planning to join them.

"Login, do daily writs, logout" is probably going to be my plan until the dust settles.

The only issue with this course of action is that ZoS still sees you “playing” so your actual absence in game won’t be shown in metrics to encourage ZoS to backtrack. If you take a break it’s far better to not log in at all to make a point.

That's just it; I enjoy ESO, I don't want to quit. I'd just prefer not to deal with the inevitable barrage of nerfs that are going to follow the release of this patch.

ImmortalCX

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

I'm genuinely tempted to just take a break from ESO and see how things look in six months when the changes have settled in and been further balanced a bit.

Very much this. What they're doing, with the sheer number of new variables and interactions and changes all at once, would be difficult for a well-staffed, highly competent team to balance in the short amount of time before PTS goes to live. I have nothing against the *idea*, but it's half baked and we'll be dealing with the fallout over several updates.

It is half baked. What they are doing is allowing the player's to balance the game by finding the OP combinations, which everyone will migrate to because every class can access all the skills.


Then maybe they will "roll it back" or do something else like apply a scaling factor to the effectiveness of "off class" skills. It will keep the theorycrafting nerds occupied and happy and at least there will be a dialogue.

Bad news is better than no news.

Ostonoha

For pvp this is going to be a disaster. If it goes live it should not be allowed into pvp in anyway.

Xarc

Ostonoha wrote: »

For pvp this is going to be a disaster. If it goes live it should not be allowed into pvp in anyway.

Since pvp is already a disaster, It's like adding earthquakes on top of floods and meteor showers and volcanic eruptions. A little more chaos within the chaos itself.

That said, let's put things into perspective.
- Can ball groups get even more powerful? they already are unstoppable.
- Can bombers already kill 15-20 people? Yes.
- Are there already indestructible players? Yes.
- Is PvP already completely unbalanced ? Yes.

subclassing will change nothing for this.

Now, fights:
When we fight a NB, we know it's a NB. We're used to it, we know he will cloak (unless they're a tank, in which case we see it immediately).
When we fight a sorcerer, we know he'll TP, they'll hop like a rabbit, spamming shield and attack us from a distance, because that's what 95% of sorcs do.
etc.
We know how to act against them.
But now, all that's over. We'll never know again.
this is the "SURPRISE MOTHERF." situation each time you'll meet someone

Ruthless

I am playing with a friend and we just stared playing Vet Dungeons as a RP DUO

Since we only play dungeons together with as a team of two I am excited that we can customize our builds to maybe beat hardest of content just together.

Times are a changing

fizzylu

Xarc wrote: »

That said, let's put things into perspective.
- Can ball groups get even more powerful? they already are unstoppable.
- Can bombers already kill 15-20 people? Yes.
- Are there already indestructible players? Yes.
- Is PvP already completely unbalanced ? Yes.

subclassing will change nothing for this.

That's how I'm looking at things. And despite this thread being about how there's actually not that many viable combinations (which I agree with), there's so many people that are acting as if players are going to be able to come up with far more game breaking builds than we have ever seen before.... and I feel that these two stances contradict each other.

Especially after I started theorycrafting ideas for my magsorc PvP build.

Because yes.... while it sounds amazing to run c-frag with grim focus, I would be losing a lot of stuff from other areas in order to do that. Now, I could swap out c-frag for grim focus and not completely gut my build in those other areas.... but I think a lot of things that people are fearing realistically aren't going to perform well generally and instead have some very niche area they will excel in, just like existing gankblades/hit and run stamsorcs/etc.

Honestly, the only real concern I have is that everyone and their mother will be running cloak.... but trying to say something on that when it comes to a game that had no CD on the fly invisibility that cancels targeted projectiles put into it to begin with just seems pointless, haha.
The game is a mess, lowkey always has been one, and will continue to be one. And I'm sure most of us will still be here just like we are now.

Hurbster

Hey, if it means I can play my og character templar without looking at those jabs ever again, I'm happy. In my head I'm combining it with a couple of warden lines. Should be cool, literally

Gabriel_H

When it was first leaked/announced I was in two minds.

The TES fan in me was: Yay, that's more like a TES game.
The MMO fan in me was: Lolz ... well there goes any semblance of balance with regard to class/role distribution and the min/max will reach new levels specificity that will lead to a very very dull endgame. Player burnout/boredom will increase.

My mind has not changed.

shadyjane62

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Exactly. As many previous updates shown, when PTS goes live it's already to late for making meaningfull alterations. Feedback is pointless. They already made their minds.

Not to mention, they already started selling preorders, with subclassing being one of their main selling points. Hard to imagine they'd be able to walk it back now, even if our feedback reaches them. ☹️

Feels like we're on a sinking ship, and it's too late to do anything about it.

Make sure we take all the Champagne into the Lifeboat!

Kalthea

Ruthless wrote: »

I am playing with a friend and we just stared playing Vet Dungeons as a RP DUO

Since we only play dungeons together with as a team of two I am excited that we can customize our builds to maybe beat hardest of content just together.

Times are a changing

An excellent viewpoint, and one I agree with! The ability to push forwards at your own pace with a friend and take content one bit at a time is great, and being able to adjust your characters to your liking to perform that content allows for a much for fun build environment.

I feel that people are forgetting something EXTREMELY important about Elder Scrolls Online: Sets!

There are TONS of sets in the game that go untouched for a variety of reasons, but one thing is always certain whenever a new update comes out that gives players a new skill line to play with: Old sets always have some new eyes looking at them, scrutinizing them for additional build ideas and fun twists.

I don't know about the rest of you, but me? I'm going to be fiddling around with so many different sets and build ideas that I'm going to struggle to do content!

opethmaniac

PVP will be fun. Streaking and cloaking players everywhere. No, thanks...

heaven13

QB1 wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

QB1 wrote: »

In PvP, things could get out of hand, but even then, I’d rather fight someone running a new build I haven't seen before, even if it's insanely OP, than deal with the same meta builds we've been dealing with for the past five years.

Wait - in that case, what did you think were the problems with the PvP meta from the last 5 years?

If it’s “everyone’s so tanky but still deals a lot of damage!” I’m sorry to say that that’s not gonna change. What is going to change is that it’ll be possible for people to do even more damage, which means people will need to be even tankier. And yes, Subclassing will totally allow these more tanky people to do more damage. The meta won’t change. It’ll only go further along the same lines.

Exactly what I said, that we've had the same stale meta for years on end, with nothing changing. I know builds are going to get stronger, tankier, etc. with subclassing. But it will still be at least interesting, if nothing else, just fighting against something different. I'll probably enjoy it for a while and then get bored once everyone finds the best combos and meta chasers start running the same OP builds, ball groups get worse, etc. Then I'll stop and wait for the next round of Vengeance.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

People are theorycrafting either way. Just now, we’re going to have a system which requires theorycrafting (on your raid lead’s part, because you won’t have a choice beyond ‘take it or leave it’) to be competitive. Even in PvE, people are already showing increases of like +50% DPS. That’s insane levels of power creep.

You're right people were theorycrafting either way. It's always been one of the best parts of the game and now they just made one of the best parts of the game a million times better.

If you're in groups where the raid lead is picking everyone's builds for them, you're either PvE score pushing or in a PvP ball group. That's probably less than 1% of the player base, and going to happen with or without subclassing.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Now I don’t hate subclassing. It is great for the “I have a character in mind!” crowd, but of course that’s not necessarily going for endgame. I have a Sorc DPS that I’m considering giving Green Balance because he’s a druid in lore so the idea of him using the elements is really cool. Let me say that again: A DPS. With a 100% healing line. Effective? No, of course not. But it is ✨thematic✨

Depends on your definition of effective. You can absolutely make an effective build out of your druid sorc with those skill lines.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

This is going to release, people are going to exclude anyone without a cracked OP build because they can’t measure up (and pure-classes will all be so far behind even the memey subclasses), and then we’ll get another U35-level across-the-board damage nerf to “rein in the power creep.” This is not hypothetical. We’ve seen it happen.

Again, score pushing PvE'ers are always going to exclude anyone without the best possible build. That's been happening since the game released, happens in literally every game. So that doesn't really change anything.

And re: nerfs, so what? If something is overperforming, it should absolutely be revisited? At least it shows they're trying to balance things. In the end, everyone will adjust and continue playing, just like they always do.

Not necessarily true, in regards to “only the 1% have requirements”. It’s long been a thing that some groups look to that 1%, see what works at the top and then try to implement it for their own group (without understanding how it works). I saw this when I was in trials: groups copying mechanics from score pushers without having the knowledge of why said mechanic worked and not understanding it didn’t work for them. Same with group composition: sometimes it’s just that x number of y class is gonna make it that much easier. People copy the top and that trickles down. Not all raid groups do it, but it definitely happens. I don’t see how subclassing is going to be any different, especially with the nerfs already to pure classes.

Honestly, this is just another drop in the bucket of all the changes ZoS has made that has stripped the enjoyment from this game for me. I’ve tried to give it “another shot” a couple times over the past years but it’s so far from the game I enjoyed that I can’t really experience the same joy from it I once did.

Xarc

opethmaniac wrote: »

PVP will be fun. Streaking and cloaking players everywhere. No, thanks...

to be honest, i dont know if everybody will add the shadow tree just to cloak. Certainly a bunch of dudes will use it, maybe more at launch, but I don't believe in it in the long term.
using an invis pot is way better to be invisible for 10 sec than sacrificing an entire skill tree just for that

and same one for streak, this is maybe the only pvp skill usable in the tree (ok there are some passive but it doesnt make all), so...

Ragnarok0130

ImmortalCX wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

I'm genuinely tempted to just take a break from ESO and see how things look in six months when the changes have settled in and been further balanced a bit.

Very much this. What they're doing, with the sheer number of new variables and interactions and changes all at once, would be difficult for a well-staffed, highly competent team to balance in the short amount of time before PTS goes to live. I have nothing against the *idea*, but it's half baked and we'll be dealing with the fallout over several updates.

It is half baked. What they are doing is allowing the player's to balance the game by finding the OP combinations, which everyone will migrate to because every class can access all the skills.


Then maybe they will "roll it back" or do something else like apply a scaling factor to the effectiveness of "off class" skills. It will keep the theorycrafting nerds occupied and happy and at least there will be a dialogue.

Bad news is better than no news.

ZoS has never rolled anything back in ESO once it goes live likely due to being scared of blowback from people who liked the new "feature" despite any negative effects on the game. Subclassing will go live and IMO largely unchanged from how it is now no matter how much feedback and solutions the PTS players provide to ZoS and then we'll have 1-2 years of extreme volatility regarding nerfs and probably many skill reworks to balance multiclass builds all the while end game players will leave yet again just like in the Morrowind patch and the U35 patch. I also don't see any potential scenario where players who want to play end game PVE or PVP will be able to run a pure class due to disadvantages to not subclassing. So much for "play how you want".

francesinhalover

ADarklore wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

I'm testing it too on the pts.
Honestly, I'm skeptical. I was really excited at first, but now this is what comes to mind:

Here's the thing: You can't just give out any skill tree, since each class was designed with a damage tree, a tank tree, and a healing tree.
You can give out three damage trees, or three healing trees, but in the end, don't be surprised if you're lacking something.
so it's easy to fall into this trap

Then I said to myself, reading the comments on the forum and seeing for myself the power ingame, players who already master the game will become even more powerful, and players who are of average level will be left even further behind in pve and rolled over in pvp, which can lead to a lot of frustration and dissatisfaction in the future.

So I'm torn between the fact that it brings some pretty cool new things, but on the other hand, I'm quite pessimistic about how things will evolve.

So,

• I think we have no choice, ZOS has made its decision.
• This does not prevent us from giving our opinion,
• And we can potentially support the arrival of this change by offering developers our best advice.
  Sometimes they listen to the community

In regards to the BOLDED above. NO, the original classes were not designed around the DPS, Tank, Healer class trees- it was only the classes that came out, starting with Warden, that they went that route. Furthermore, they envision this game as 'Skyrim with friends' and have said so years ago when their attempt at creating a true ESO MMO failed and they opted to give the majority what they wanted- Skyrim with friends- and they introduced One Tamriel. Since then, they've been trying to figure out a direction to take the game to fulfill that design. I think when designing new classes, they thought, "Well, we have some people playing the trinity, so let's give the new classes a trinity option." I think now they are realizing that it didn't work- because the majority aren't using all their trees because it doesn't fit with how they want to play the game. So with subclassing, it brings us closer to 'Skyrim with friends' than any other decision they've made. I'm definitely all for this. Does it need some tweaking, sure... but overall I think it's a step in the right direction and will bring a lot of players, myself included, back to the game.

"skyrim with friends" yet the overland pve is so easy that there's almost no point doing it with someone else, this plus the fact their choices also change our own quest at times."

francesinhalover

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

Here's the thing: You can't just give out any skill tree, since each class was designed with a damage tree, a tank tree, and a healing tree. You can give out three damage trees, or three healing trees, but in the end, don't be surprised if you're lacking something. so it's easy to fall into this trap

Yes, this is called balance, subclassing does in fact have a high opportunity cost.

The game is dying because the combat has been designed around the bottom 1% and top 1% for the past decade, leaving the game a mess for the other 98% of players. Subclassing is finally something for the middle 98% to have more power, do the content they want to do, have the tools in their kit to keep up with sweatier players, and yes crutch on something overpowered like the Arc beam if they need the help to clear. This is not a bad thing.

The top 1% will still be in their own little world of score pushing and KDA obsessing, with their narrow restrictive meta of only the most ruthlessly efficient builds and comps, like the top 1% in every game.

While i understand what you are trying to say, this isn't a competitive game.
There has never been a 1% unless you refer to score pushers... Even than 1% seems low.

And what would the bottom 1% be? You sure it's just 1% and not 10?20?

And "do the content they want to do, have the tools in their kit to keep up with sweatier players, and yes crutch on something overpowered like the Arc beam if they need the help to clear. This is not a bad thing."
While this is awesome. Is this really what the intention is? or will these 170+ dps that are being made now be nerfed all the way to 120+ dps keeping what you call 98% on the same spot regardless ( they will be wayyyyyy lower on dps tho if they don't subclass their class)

I hope at least people that chose to not subclass can keep up. Maybe with a passive

Veinblood1965

Wereswan wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

I'm genuinely tempted to just take a break from ESO and see how things look in six months when the changes have settled in and been further balanced a bit.

Very much this. What they're doing, with the sheer number of new variables and interactions and changes all at once, would be difficult for a well-staffed, highly competent team to balance in the short amount of time before PTS goes to live. I have nothing against the *idea*, but it's half baked and we'll be dealing with the fallout over several updates.

I know some really enjoy all of the tinkering and theory crafting and endless arguing over every skill and every change, but there are also those of us who are more interested in actually playing the game... this has the potential to be enormously disruptive to groups working on trials; players who regularly pvp or do dungeons together; players moving from lower end content to mid to end game content or trying to get into pvp; etc.

Instead of playing, we'll be trying to wrap our heads around all the changes, which will just change again and changed back and rechanged, in a "throw some darts and see what sticks" manner. Then grinding and leveling up skill lines and skills instead of enjoying the game. Then the next round of balance changes will start the process over again.

I know many who are likely to just sit it out and wait for things to settle (like most of the relaxed trial group in one of my social guilds) and tbh I'm planning to join them.

"Login, do daily writs, logout" is probably going to be my plan until the dust settles.

Pretty much what I have been doing lately. I was getting a little gun shy of each new update even before this was brought up. I think Scribing did it for me, run all the quests, get all the scribing skills and I use none of them. 2 second delays on some of them I mean really? It's like having an entire skill line set up like mythics, you can get this benefit BUUTTTT there is a drawback.

francesinhalover

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Subclassing is finally something for the middle 98% to have more power, do the content they want to do, have the tools in their kit to keep up with sweatier players, and yes crutch on something overpowered like the Arc beam if they need the help to clear. This is not a bad thing.

Uhm..nope. if players weren't able to handle and maintain 6 (or with 2 bars) 12 skills, then subclasses will not change anything.

Even if you have different skills and combinations, you still need to press the buttons in order and keep them up.

Most players are just hyped for subclasses because they expect to have some god mode now.

But they miss 2 points:
-they still need to press buttons and if they want to be in good groups, they have to do it the sweaty way.

- big nerf hammer incoming for skills and/or combinations.

The first "I regret to have subclasses liked"- threads are there already after the PTS release.

Sorry, no godmode for you all.

(Also since you like PVP and ballgroups, you can prepare for 12 negates on you already. You will wish the times, where RoA was your biggest issue back :P )

They surely change a lot

Players couldnt mantain 2 bars/rotations because all skills had diferent durations and classes best dmg skill would make the rotation harder. (grim focus, blastbones etc)

With subclass system you can just get all skills to 20/15 secs and have a smooth rotation

Example:

dot > dot > dot > dot > dot barswap Dot Dot Dot Dot Spammable x times barswap.

Everyone that wanted a easy time had to more or less play arcanist before. Now they play what ever they want, but most likely using templar jabs or arcanist beam.

this also means base arcanist will be heavily nerfed especially beam.

francesinhalover

CoronHR wrote: »

at first i was sceptical, because i didn't want classes to become a thing of the past and not matter at all, and thus we'll never get a new one. but i think there are some disadvantages to subclassing that will keep the idea of pure classes alive

What makes you think we wont get a new one? if nothing else we could get just 1 skill line.

But i highly doubt we wont get more classes

Bard, monk , dwarven construct, pirate... there's lots of potential, even if it's just 1 skill line.

francesinhalover

amiiegee wrote: »

but overall I think it's a step in the right direction and will bring a lot of players, myself included, back to the game.[/quote]

And push even more off the game
[/quote]

The nerfs incoming will be hard on a lot

but perhaps in some years eso will have sooooooo many new players , hopefully.

francesinhalover

tomofhyrule wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

Here's the thing: You can't just give out any skill tree, since each class was designed with a damage tree, a tank tree, and a healing tree. You can give out three damage trees, or three healing trees, but in the end, don't be surprised if you're lacking something. so it's easy to fall into this trap

Yes, this is called balance, subclassing does in fact have a high opportunity cost.

Yes, it has a high opportunity cost. But opportunity cost is not a weakness, it just tells you that you have to wait to get started.

Consider the Oakensoul Ring. Would it be reasonable if they said “you can wear Oakensoul without taking up a gear slot and having full use of both bars, but you have to get 10 leads to dig it up instead”? No, that makes that one thing ridiculously OP, and that only means that the people who have the time and resources to get it done first will be set that far above everyone else that much sooner.

The “2 skill points” is a big nothing for players who’ve been here since the beginning and who have 132 unused skill points on their mains. Who does it hurt most? Newer players. Conversely, the fact that a lot of higher-level players have one or two of their lines that they don’t really use much means that “drop one of your lines to get this other line” means they can trade away an unused line for straight up buffs, no drawbacks in sight.

The DLC classes, with strict roles-per-line mean that this is super easy to add more strength to an Arcanist, but it’s not as easy to add more to the basegame classes without giving up important features like high-damage skills or important passives.

given the very big diference a non subclass player will have compared to a player that has a subclass. Adding that extra skillpoint requirement just hurts new players.

Plus there's many players that just want to do quests and roleplay and Not go all over tamriel with a slow horse farming all skyshards.

francesinhalover

agelonestar wrote: »

Subclassing is a really interesting curiosity. It will broaden the appeal of the game and sure, there will be a degree of power creep (but perhaps no more than we already see, given how Subclassing has been implemented). It looks like fun.

It will help to further kill PVP UNLESS ZoS move to focus on the kind of PVP we saw in the recent Vengeance campaign - something that ostensibly worked really well.

Hopefully that’s what we’ll get - a “play your way” almost free-for-all in a PVE context, with more limitations placed on Cyrodiil PVP to remove “broken builds” from that aspect of the game.

"there will be a degree of power creep (but perhaps no more than we already see)"

The top dps was like 120-130k now it's 170k++ dps.

francesinhalover

fizzylu wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

It's the same feeling when scribing skill line showed up.
When I met scribing skill line before, I tried to test multiple pattern of it, but mostly meaningless.

I'm kind of treating subclassing like I do scribing: an opportunity to swap out skills I don't like, for whatever reason(s), for alternatives that do the same thing at the end of the day but function just differently enough to fit into my playstyle or preferences better. Nothing more and nothing less.

what will be a alternative for trap? cuz that bleed dmg over time. 3% extra dmg + the crit buff is really powerfull and i'm pretty sure lots of people dislike the skill due to how bad it feels to use.
So again, what can replace it? I been checking around but no clue.

francesinhalover

TaSheen wrote: »

Y'know what? I just realized that I won't have 3-5 gig downloads to do any more. That's really nice on my VERY limited data available every month.

What's your thoughts on the subclass system/future update overall friend?

old_scopie1945

Good old ZOS, 'we have this brand new shiny toy that we know you all will love'. Then go at it like a bull in a china shop. This is rarely the case, as indicated by the perception of some of us here. I doubt at times if ZOS has any idea about human nature at all. ZOS has that capability to do my head in, and they do love the nerf hammer.

Elowen_Starveil

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

I just remembered something else. Didn't the devs say there weren't goint to nerf anything just yet?
They changed the Sorc's Curse ability, so that it only buffs Sorc pets. And that's a nerf for pure Sorc users, because Curse used to buff proc pets too, like Maw of the Infernal and Morkuldin. What gives?

This is a very popular take. I've already seen it many times. But I've run a "max pets" build on my sorc with those things, and, frankly, the damage isn't great just compared to an oakensoul build. Does it really matter if you lose the buff on your set pets? I played this a couple years ago, so maybe the relatively-recent change to Daedric Prey made this build competitive? If not, do you really care when you're choosing to play a less-than-meta DPS setup in order to play a "themed" build?

TaSheen

francesinhalover wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Y'know what? I just realized that I won't have 3-5 gig downloads to do any more. That's really nice on my VERY limited data available every month.

What's your thoughts on the subclass system/future update overall friend?

*waves* I hate it, I've hated it in any game I've ever played where it was included, and I'm pretty much done with ESO now. Which is why I won't have those mega downloads any more.