DenverRalphy wrote: »I hope cross play never comes to exist in ESO. As a former PC player now enjoying life on the PSNA servers, I don't want that craptastic inflated gold/trader market from PC poisoning the PSNA server.
Not to mention that in every game that goes crossplay, the console side always gets the short end of the stick.
HatchetHaro wrote: »Cross-save is absolutely possible, like, right now. Different game builds can pull data from and save data to the same database; we have the PTSpocalypse from last year to thank for this revelation.
SilverBride wrote: »No crossplay, please. There are just too many negatives.
PCs & Consoles are not a good mix, but I would love to play with my fellow console-based friends.
sans-culottes wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »No crossplay, please. There are just too many negatives.
As a console player, I must respectfully disagree. I suspect many console players would support more options for interacting with a game that already favors PC players.
tomofhyrule wrote: »Oh, is it time for this thread again? We really should have a sticky for "cross-play/cross-save" so we don't have to rehash the same points literally every week.
- Yes, every other game does it.
- Yes, it would really be something ESO should look into because that's the way the times are going and it would help with low pops on consoles (particularly XBEU).
- No, it's not going to be easy.
- No, the economy is not a primary concern because things will stabilize very soon after
- No, addons are not a primary concern because consoles are getting some addons and then any potential cross-save would allow people to just go on PC and use addons that don't exist on console.
- Yes, the megaserver architecture is the main reason this isn't done yet.
- Yes, ESO has a different server architecture than other MMOs, which means any player on the same megaserver can interact but that also makes interaction between megaservers impossible.
- Yes, ZOS could totally figure out how to merge servers if they wanted to put in that time.
- No, they have repeatedly said it's not in the cards. At least not at this time.
- No, the accidental PTS debacle last year is not proof that it will work. Success stories don't usually end up with shutting the server down for 20 hours and temp-banning your beta testers for 11 days.
- No, the PTS copies are not proof it will be easy, since that's a wipe-and-reset.
- No, the initial console copies are not proof it will work since that was a blank server. That could be an idea for a start if they made a brand new mega-mega-server to be merged, but they never built a merger software
- Yes, it would be a good idea if they first tested with individual transfers, but even that would be tough and finicky. Once that is done without bugs, then they could start to consider something bigger.
- Yes, there will probably be some legalese also getting in the way. XB and PC are both under the Microsoft umbrella, but I doubt a company as greedy as Sony will enjoy any way of people being able to leave Sony (and stop paying the online fee to Sony) for something else.
- Yes, name overlaps will be a problem, and "oh just append something to the end of every character name!" is not an answer because TES is very RP-heavy, and RPers aren't going to be happy if their carefully crafted lore-appropriate name now includes "XBOX" in it. However, if they can invisibly do that (even make it so players can have the same name visually even if internally it's "CharName@PlayerID"), that would work.
Did I miss anything?
SilverBride wrote: »sans-culottes wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »No crossplay, please. There are just too many negatives.
As a console player, I must respectfully disagree. I suspect many console players would support more options for interacting with a game that already favors PC players.
I'm not willing to risk losing my character's names, or losing my houses and other things I've acquired and worked hard for, or having our economy destroyed (the past year has been bad enough), or having different societal norms causing conflict (I've heard that on console players charge gold to bite players, but we do it for free on PC) for just a few examples.
PC is not preferred but it was the first option to play ESO, and players still have that option.
sans-culottes wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »sans-culottes wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »No crossplay, please. There are just too many negatives.
As a console player, I must respectfully disagree. I suspect many console players would support more options for interacting with a game that already favors PC players.
I'm not willing to risk losing my character's names, or losing my houses and other things I've acquired and worked hard for, or having our economy destroyed (the past year has been bad enough), or having different societal norms causing conflict (I've heard that on console players charge gold to bite players, but we do it for free on PC) for just a few examples.
PC is not preferred but it was the first option to play ESO, and players still have that option.
I do not believe these things would happen with cross-platform play.
SilverBride wrote: »sans-culottes wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »No crossplay, please. There are just too many negatives.
As a console player, I must respectfully disagree. I suspect many console players would support more options for interacting with a game that already favors PC players.
I'm not willing to risk losing my character's names, or losing my houses and other things I've acquired and worked hard for, or having our economy destroyed (the past year has been bad enough), or having different societal norms causing conflict (I've heard that on console players charge gold to bite players, but we do it for free on PC) for just a few examples.
PC is not preferred but it was the first option to play ESO, and players still have that option.
DenverRalphy wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »sans-culottes wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »No crossplay, please. There are just too many negatives.
As a console player, I must respectfully disagree. I suspect many console players would support more options for interacting with a game that already favors PC players.
I'm not willing to risk losing my character's names, or losing my houses and other things I've acquired and worked hard for, or having our economy destroyed (the past year has been bad enough), or having different societal norms causing conflict (I've heard that on console players charge gold to bite players, but we do it for free on PC) for just a few examples.
PC is not preferred but it was the first option to play ESO, and players still have that option.
While I agree with you and share the same stance on cross play, I can assure you that charging for bites is not the social norm on consoles. At least, not on PSNA.
sans-culottes wrote: »PCs & Consoles are not a good mix, but I would love to play with my fellow console-based friends.
They seem to mix fine for lots of other games. FFXIV comes to mind. ZOS would just need to give consoles an autorun feature—and enable keyboard/mouse compatibility.
That these basic QoL features are lacking contributes to the second-tier experience consoles have been relegated to.
sans-culottes wrote: »As a console player, I would be in favor of this. Frankly, just being able to link achievements and Crown store purchases to my old PC account would be nice. It’d make me feel less bound to a device and entertainment ecosystem I have no strong feelings about. I suspect this is unlikely, though.
redlink1979 wrote: »Reminder: Rich Lambert already stated several times that crossplay isn't in ZOS plans, neither in short, medium or long therm.
How exactly would cross-play work? If it involved console players opting to play on PC servers then that would impose a major additional burden on servers that are already straining, and how would those console players not opting in feel about being left to play on even quieter console servers?
Let's not pretend that it wouldn't just be one-way traffic. I can see some advantages for some console players, and some disadvantages for other console players. I can only see disadvantages for PC players, and a lot of difficulties and potential pitfalls for ZOS with no benefit at all for the console providers.
sans-culottes wrote: »tomofhyrule wrote: »Oh, is it time for this thread again? We really should have a sticky for "cross-play/cross-save" so we don't have to rehash the same points literally every week.
- Yes, every other game does it.
- Yes, it would really be something ESO should look into because that's the way the times are going and it would help with low pops on consoles (particularly XBEU).
- No, it's not going to be easy.
- No, the economy is not a primary concern because things will stabilize very soon after
- No, addons are not a primary concern because consoles are getting some addons and then any potential cross-save would allow people to just go on PC and use addons that don't exist on console.
- Yes, the megaserver architecture is the main reason this isn't done yet.
- Yes, ESO has a different server architecture than other MMOs, which means any player on the same megaserver can interact but that also makes interaction between megaservers impossible.
- Yes, ZOS could totally figure out how to merge servers if they wanted to put in that time.
- No, they have repeatedly said it's not in the cards. At least not at this time.
- No, the accidental PTS debacle last year is not proof that it will work. Success stories don't usually end up with shutting the server down for 20 hours and temp-banning your beta testers for 11 days.
- No, the PTS copies are not proof it will be easy, since that's a wipe-and-reset.
- No, the initial console copies are not proof it will work since that was a blank server. That could be an idea for a start if they made a brand new mega-mega-server to be merged, but they never built a merger software
- Yes, it would be a good idea if they first tested with individual transfers, but even that would be tough and finicky. Once that is done without bugs, then they could start to consider something bigger.
- Yes, there will probably be some legalese also getting in the way. XB and PC are both under the Microsoft umbrella, but I doubt a company as greedy as Sony will enjoy any way of people being able to leave Sony (and stop paying the online fee to Sony) for something else.
- Yes, name overlaps will be a problem, and "oh just append something to the end of every character name!" is not an answer because TES is very RP-heavy, and RPers aren't going to be happy if their carefully crafted lore-appropriate name now includes "XBOX" in it. However, if they can invisibly do that (even make it so players can have the same name visually even if internally it's "CharName@PlayerID"), that would work.
Did I miss anything?
The economy will normalize. Every MMO that merged shards or implemented cross-economies has seen some initial turbulence followed by stabilization. The idea that PC’s economy would “poison” the console market is hyperbolic, especially given that inflation and market manipulation already exist within servers.
sans-culottes wrote: »(...)
@Tandor and @redlink1979, I understand the skepticism, but some of these concerns may already be outdated or overstated.
For one, ZOS is actively working on addon support for consoles, which directly addresses one of the major arguments people have historically made against cross-play. This is public knowledge from multiple dev interviews and ESO Live segments. That’s not a minor move. It shows a clear intention to reduce the gap between platforms.
As for server load: PC NA is the most active megaserver by far, and even it doesn’t suffer from the population bottlenecks that plague PS EU or Xbox EU. Far from being a one-way street, cross-play would revitalize low-pop console servers and give players more options—especially for group content that currently struggles to queue. ZOS could easily use matchmaking flags (already used in PvP) to allow players to opt in or out of mixed pools, if that’s a concern.
Fear of “what console players might do” to the PC economy or community mirrors arguments that people made when FFXIV or Warframe adopted cross-play. Those fears largely didn’t pan out.
And let’s not forget: many players already have accounts on both platforms. Cross-save would let us consolidate years of progress and purchases. That alone would improve retention and goodwill.
ZOS hasn’t promised cross-play, to be sure. But saying “it’s not on the roadmap” today isn’t the same as saying “it will never happen.” The technical and social landscape is shifting. Other MMOs have solved this. ESO can too.
redlink1979 wrote: »sans-culottes wrote: »(...)
@Tandor and @redlink1979, I understand the skepticism, but some of these concerns may already be outdated or overstated.
For one, ZOS is actively working on addon support for consoles, which directly addresses one of the major arguments people have historically made against cross-play. This is public knowledge from multiple dev interviews and ESO Live segments. That’s not a minor move. It shows a clear intention to reduce the gap between platforms.
As for server load: PC NA is the most active megaserver by far, and even it doesn’t suffer from the population bottlenecks that plague PS EU or Xbox EU. Far from being a one-way street, cross-play would revitalize low-pop console servers and give players more options—especially for group content that currently struggles to queue. ZOS could easily use matchmaking flags (already used in PvP) to allow players to opt in or out of mixed pools, if that’s a concern.
Fear of “what console players might do” to the PC economy or community mirrors arguments that people made when FFXIV or Warframe adopted cross-play. Those fears largely didn’t pan out.
And let’s not forget: many players already have accounts on both platforms. Cross-save would let us consolidate years of progress and purchases. That alone would improve retention and goodwill.
ZOS hasn’t promised cross-play, to be sure. But saying “it’s not on the roadmap” today isn’t the same as saying “it will never happen.” The technical and social landscape is shifting. Other MMOs have solved this. ESO can too.
Add-ons on consoles doesn't mean crossplay, it just means Sony and Microsoft are willing to allow 3rd parties apps on their machines.
sans-culottes wrote: »PCs & Consoles are not a good mix, but I would love to play with my fellow console-based friends.
They seem to mix fine for lots of other games. FFXIV comes to mind. ZOS would just need to give consoles an autorun feature—and enable keyboard/mouse compatibility.
That these basic QoL features are lacking contributes to the second-tier experience consoles have been relegated to.
No, PC players need to exist on a server just for PC players. They play differently, run millions of mods, and have faster hardware. They are also more prone to exploitation, cheating, and hacking. The playing field is so different that it LOOKS like a different game. You can watch PC players stream ESO running all of those mods. Or ask the guild traders what it is like on the PC server. And PVP is already an imbalanced mess - what do you think mixing PCs and consoles would do to that?
PCs and Consoles are like totally different ecosystems. Other than the population bump, mixing populations will not add value for either group.
That's my two cents.
sans-culottes wrote: »
As for server load: PC NA is the most active megaserver by far, and even it doesn’t suffer from the population bottlenecks that plague PS EU or Xbox EU. Far from being a one-way street, cross-play would revitalize low-pop console servers and give players more options—especially for group content that currently struggles to queue. ZOS could easily use matchmaking flags (already used in PvP) to allow players to opt in or out of mixed pools, if that’s a concern.