Wide-Brimmed Hats in ESO — Why do they feel out of place?

Parasaurolophus

I've been playing ESO for many years, and I've often thought about the artistic consistency of the game. One thing that stands out to me is the presence of wide-brimmed hats. The TES series has always featured helmets, hoods, and wraps—headwear that either serves a practical purpose or has a rough, minimalistic look. TES has traditionally drawn inspiration from early medieval times, antiquity, and even Eastern cultures, creating a distinct visual identity. Wide-brimmed felt hats, especially those with curled edges, feel more reminiscent of later historical periods, such as the Renaissance or even the 19th century.

Of course, TES is a fantasy world with no strict historical timeline. But even within fantasy settings, we can sense stylistic differences. For example, imagine if Morrowind or Skyrim suddenly introduced top hats or Napoleonic-style bicornes—it would feel out of place. ESO also includes other elements that raise similar questions: tailcoats, Victorian wigs, and outfits that resemble 18th-19th century fashion.

I'm not saying these items can’t exist in TES, but they do seem to stand out from the series’ established visual identity. Maybe I'm not the only one who notices this? Strangely, what bothers me the most are the hats, even though there are other unusual clothing items in the game.

What do you think? Do these elements fit within the TES aesthetic?

Yes, of course, there are exceptions. For example, the Shivering Isles in TES IV: Oblivion are entirely designed in the style of later historical periods, including elements of architecture, costumes, and accessories. But this is the Shivering Isles, the realm of Sheogorath, where absurdity and eclecticism are part of the world’s very essence. In this context, such elements feel appropriate because they emphasize the chaotic nature of the Mad God.

In contrast, Tamriel still feels like a more cohesive world with recognizable stylistic roots. So when elements that belong to other historical periods are added, it raises the question — how justified is this from the perspective of the artistic direction of the series?

LunaFlora

they look nice so i like that they exist in Elder Scrolls Online

Tazzy

I agree with you. Those hats always remind me of John Wayne and old westerns. When I see a char wearing one, I always expect him to pull out a gun instead of a sword.

Grizzbeorn

They are way less out of place than people jangling around in Jester outfits.

Finedaible

They have abandoned immersion immersion since gambling crates became a thing, lol. I think it just boils down to the art/marketing teams having to create assets to sell which cater to a wide, casual audience really. Even the last few chapters have abandoned the adult, grounded fantasy style that Elder Scrolls prided itself on.

It's all about the money in the end.

GretchenRPH

I think they look weirdly out of place. Got people running around looking like cowboys.

Syldras

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Maybe I'm not the only one who notices this? Strangely, what bothers me the most are the hats, even though there are other unusual clothing items in the game.
What do you think? Do these elements fit within the TES aesthetic?

I'm also bothered by design decisions in ESO, especially when it comes to store items. But unfortunately, I don't think complaining will change anything in a game that heavily relies on micro-transactions. They'll sell what sells, and over the years I have the impression that the art style gets increasingly incongruent. No matter if it's victorian frock coats, weird exploding mounts you never see anywhere else in the world, or anime hair - if people buy it, they'll put it in the store. Do I as someone who's more focused on lore accuracy and a harmonic visual/artistic concept like it? No. But other people don't seem to care that much.

AcadianPaladin

I think the hats look fine. What seems out of place are exploding mounts that inflict themselves on everyone in the area when they are summoned.

katanagirl1

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I think the hats look fine. What seems out of place are exploding mounts that inflict themselves on everyone in the area when they are summoned.

One of the newer mounts, I think it is the Mirrormoor type Dwarven Mount, causes the rumble in my controller to go off when it is summoned.

EDIT: just to clarify, I don’t own this mount

wolfie1.0.

Finedaible wrote: »

They have abandoned immersion immersion since gambling crates became a thing, lol. I think it just boils down to the art/marketing teams having to create assets to sell which cater to a wide, casual audience really. Even the last few chapters have abandoned the adult, grounded fantasy style that Elder Scrolls prided itself on.

It's all about the money in the end.

The broad brim hats predate the crown crates. One set was introduced early with new life festival, and another as part of the Werewolf dungeon dlc I think.

I like my cowfolk costumes and characters.

IsharaMeradin

Some of the wide-brimmed hats remind me of musketeers. Just because something appears to have a real-world correlation for inspiration doesn't mean that it has to exist at a similar technological point in time.

What I don't like is that the hairstyle changes when a hat is put on. But I do realize that if they didn't change the hair, there would be clipping with some of the hairstyles and that would cause me more irritation to be honest.

Elvenheart

I might have agreed prior to the latest Crown Crate offerings. But now that players can run around looking like lost extras from a Las Vegas show, I find the hats with brims to be tame by comparison.

Syldras

Elvenheart wrote: »

I might have agreed prior to the latest Crown Crate offerings. But now that players can run around looking like lost extras from a Las Vegas show, I find the hats with brims to be tame by comparison.

I know that TES has always "taken inspiration" (or sometimes outright copied - I know a good dozen of examples) items from real world history, from different cultures, places and eras. But now that the "Argonian"(?) Brazilian Carnival outfits were released, it has somehow reached a point for me where I wish for more original designs for once. Inspiration is fine, but in a fantasy game taking place in a world unrelated to Earth, everything would be possible, so why limiting oneself to 1:1 copies from the real world?

Pixiepumpkin

Agreed OP. I bought them, but I can find little use for them. They don't really fit the feel of the environemnt in game and they don't really work well with armor sets. There are a couple outfits that they kinda work with, but thats about it.

colossalvoids

Those are selling, that's an issue. ESO doesn't have coherent visual language for quite some time already, racial and cultural things are often done in a vacuum or like the last crates out of necessity to portray some specific things and attribute those after to one of the cultures to make it less intrusive. It didn't though.

To see the changes clearest just look up any markings pre elsweyr or some similar period and now, at the very least since Skyrim chapter. Quite recent example being the Pelinal one, pretty special in that regard (alongside clockwork one in some crate that was a rip off from an actual artist and was just mish mash of their assets), a truly hideous experience to look at, absolutely zero artistic anything was involved in making, probably AI even.

Gladly there are some good things (new BG ones, some event stuff) still but amounts of mediocrity or even out of place things is there to set the scale wrong.

barney2525

The hats are fine

It's what the hair gets changed to that is not good

SatanicSister

Some hats look like something out of Van Helsing or Bloodborne. I do like the look but not in ESO. I dare say the very Victorian era style bothers me more than the loud and sparkly mounts and skins, as it is an obvious anachronism.

Varana

ESO, and Tamriel as a whole, was never just "medieval". (Also, if we wanted to stay medieval, where are my cannons?!?)

One problem is that Tamriel as a whole has no consistent visual style across games.
TES5:Skyrim follows a Nordic aesthetic rather closely. With a lot of ahistorical clichés, but it has a consistent theme.
TES4:Oblivion, on the other hand, is all over the place - pseudo-Romanesque-ish armour, kinda-medieval vibes, Renaissance or Baroque clothing and clutter, with various other stuff randomly thrown in.
TES3:Morrowind doesn't have a clear real-life counterpart at all, except for "somewhen in history, but bugs and resin".
Only the older main games are "classical" fantasy, but then - they are old.

That works in a single-player game in a restricted area. In ESO, you can hop all over the place, and bring your Nord pelts to Murkmire or the Alik'r. And run in "Brazilian" carnival costumes through an active war zone in winter. (The costumes are a bit bright-coloured, but the general form isn't really out of place, imho. They just belong to a parade or a religious or communal festival, not everyday life. But you can't enforce that in a game like this.)

After the initial release, ESO has done little to create consistency out of this chaos, even before overly flashy Clown Store items. And yes, they're clearly not interested in maintaining a visual identity except oversized hip plates.

But Tamriel was never just pseudo-medieval like so much of classical fantasy. (We've not even mentioned the heavy steampunk elements yet.) On the contrary, it shouldn't be.

With the exception of Morrowind (and Redguard, but that's very old as well), the single-player games all took place in very European-inspired corners of Tamriel. But there are so many more, and in some cases, ESO has done a great job at breaking up those fantasy clichés and bringing other influences into the world - be it the Mayaztec-inspired Argonians, the Middle East, kinda-Southeast Asia-ish with some Khajiit stuff, and so on.
But even the European visuals are not just pseudo-medieval. (And many "medieval" European clichés are actually early modern.) The Renaissance spans both medieval and post-medieval times, BTW, and fits quite well for a lot of Cyrodiilic stuff. Especially because that is about aesthetics, not a clear advancement. Ancient Greeks theoretically had all of the technology to tailor their clothing in a Napoleonic style, they just didn't come up with it.

In the end, it's about vibes, flair, how things feel. Wide-brimmed hats don't feel out of place for me, but then, I don't consume a lot of media with the "American Western" style. If you associate them primarily with John Wayne, it's probably more of an issue. But that's often a personal association, or media cliché, and can vary from one person to another.

Elvenheart

Syldras wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

I might have agreed prior to the latest Crown Crate offerings. But now that players can run around looking like lost extras from a Las Vegas show, I find the hats with brims to be tame by comparison.

I know that TES has always "taken inspiration" (or sometimes outright copied - I know a good dozen of examples) items from real world history, from different cultures, places and eras. But now that the "Argonian"(?) Brazilian Carnival outfits were released, it has somehow reached a point for me where I wish for more original designs for once. Inspiration is fine, but in a fantasy game taking place in a world unrelated to Earth, everything would be possible, so why limiting oneself to 1:1 copies from the real world?

OMG that Moon-Gate Bed is beautiful!

Renato90085

Japanese and chinese clothing/armor:exist

Ragnarok0130

OP I've thought this since the hats first appeared in the game and agree 100% with your position.

Syldras wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

I might have agreed prior to the latest Crown Crate offerings. But now that players can run around looking like lost extras from a Las Vegas show, I find the hats with brims to be tame by comparison.

I know that TES has always "taken inspiration" (or sometimes outright copied - I know a good dozen of examples) items from real world history, from different cultures, places and eras. But now that the "Argonian"(?) Brazilian Carnival outfits were released, it has somehow reached a point for me where I wish for more original designs for once. Inspiration is fine, but in a fantasy game taking place in a world unrelated to Earth, everything would be possible, so why limiting oneself to 1:1 copies from the real world?

Spot on, I had the same thoughts when I saw the Carnival outfit.

Syldras

Elvenheart wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

I might have agreed prior to the latest Crown Crate offerings. But now that players can run around looking like lost extras from a Las Vegas show, I find the hats with brims to be tame by comparison.

I know that TES has always "taken inspiration" (or sometimes outright copied - I know a good dozen of examples) items from real world history, from different cultures, places and eras. But now that the "Argonian"(?) Brazilian Carnival outfits were released, it has somehow reached a point for me where I wish for more original designs for once. Inspiration is fine, but in a fantasy game taking place in a world unrelated to Earth, everything would be possible, so why limiting oneself to 1:1 copies from the real world?

OMG that Moon-Gate Bed is beautiful!

You mean the Hlaalu Bed, Canopy

But really, most Dunmer furniture in ESO is Chinese, with a few other Asian styles mixed in at times. Then again, Morrowind was always partly Asian-inspired (not only China, also Japan, India,...), at least the culture of the settled people (with their House/clan system, ancestral veneration, Tongs such as the Morag Tong, Camonna Tong and Saraathu Tong, and much more), strangely mixed with Mesopotamian influences, and aspects that have no real-world counterpart, but made the game really unique. I think many people might just not notice, because they're not familiar with it.

whitecrow

I love my wide-brim acorn warder. It's more witchy than cowboy.

LootAllTheStuff

whitecrow wrote: »

I love my wide-brim acorn warder. It's more witchy than cowboy.

TBH I find the witch hats to be as incongruous to the setting as the cowboy variety. They certainly don't fit with the aesthetic of any of the in-game characters who have witch-like behaviour.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Syldras wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

I might have agreed prior to the latest Crown Crate offerings. But now that players can run around looking like lost extras from a Las Vegas show, I find the hats with brims to be tame by comparison.

I know that TES has always "taken inspiration" (or sometimes outright copied - I know a good dozen of examples) items from real world history, from different cultures, places and eras. But now that the "Argonian"(?) Brazilian Carnival outfits were released, it has somehow reached a point for me where I wish for more original designs for once. Inspiration is fine, but in a fantasy game taking place in a world unrelated to Earth, everything would be possible, so why limiting oneself to 1:1 copies from the real world?

There seem to be such a lack of passion and originality in design. As somone who loves argonians and have Sanguine as favourite prince, I was of course curious about the carnaval festival when it was first mentioned. But of course, as usual that was crushed when it was just some copy of Brazilian carnivals for over the top cosmetics.

Syldras

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

TBH I find the witch hats to be as incongruous to the setting as the cowboy variety. They certainly don't fit with the aesthetic of any of the in-game characters who have witch-like behaviour.

Indeed. They introduce the costume item as a "witch hat", and it looks like a witch hat from old Halloween illustrations or children's books or whatever, but it never showed anywhere as something witches actually wear in the world of TES, although we do come across witches in some quests since base game. It's obvious they've probably only added it because they thought this item would be popular because of what it means in the real world - no relation to TES at all. To me, personally, this doesn't feel any different as if they would include the latest real-world fashion trend into the game by writing some flowery flavor text calling it "the current fashion in Alinor" or something. Completely out of place.

And while we're at it, this is something that bothers me with store items all the time: flavor texts claiming an item to be typical for whatever region of Tamriel, but we never actually see it somewhere (apart from players using the store-bought item). Even with items which fit the lore and art style I find this a little unfortunate. Why don't they just put a few of these items into the environment? Put a few of the mounts into stables of the region, have npcs wear the costume,...? Of course with all those over the top flashy mounts I prefer to see them as rarely as possible, but with creatures which look more natural and fit it, why not?

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

There seem to be such a lack of passion and originality in design. As somone who loves argonians and have Sanguine as favourite prince, I was of course curious about the carnaval festival when it was first mentioned. But of course, as usual that was crushed when it was just some copy of Brazilian carnivals for over the top cosmetics.

I can understand if they continue what has already been established, so Nord will always be pseudo-Vikings somehow, and Khajiit, Imperials and Redguards also have their established cultural identity (which doesn't mean they could not come up with some surprises at times), but they could be so much more creative with aspects that aren't that set yet. But even with the druids of Galen they chose to... well. And so it continues.

Another reason why I find the choice of copying Brazilian Carnival for a Sanguine celebration rather strange - apart from the fact that I would have wished for more creativity - is that it's not exactly scandalous or dark. Unless there's a twist to this festivity that we do not know of yet, it all seems rather harmless. It feels like Sanguine gets reduced to drinking and (rather tame) nudity all the time, while actually - or originally - the idea included so much more (But why am I telling you this? I'm sure you would have come up with a rather interesting concept for this festival).

Elvenheart

King Ur-Namma was a Druid? I had no idea! 🧙‍♂️

katanagirl1

Syldras wrote: »

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

TBH I find the witch hats to be as incongruous to the setting as the cowboy variety. They certainly don't fit with the aesthetic of any of the in-game characters who have witch-like behaviour.

Indeed. They introduce the costume item as a "witch hat", and it looks like a witch hat from old Halloween illustrations or children's books or whatever, but it never showed anywhere as something witches actually wear in the world of TES, although we do come across witches in some quests since base game. It's obvious they've probably only added it because they thought this item would be popular because of what it means in the real world - no relation to TES at all. To me, personally, this doesn't feel any different as if they would include the latest real-world fashion trend into the game by writing some flowery flavor text calling it "the current fashion in Alinor" or something. Completely out of place.

And while we're at it, this is something that bothers me with store items all the time: flavor texts claiming an item to be typical for whatever region of Tamriel, but we never actually see it somewhere (apart from players using the store-bought item). Even with items which fit the lore and art style I find this a little unfortunate. Why don't they just put a few of these items into the environment? Put a few of the mounts into stables of the region, have npcs wear the costume,...? Of course with all those over the top flashy mounts I prefer to see them as rarely as possible, but with creatures which look more natural and fit it, why not?

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

There seem to be such a lack of passion and originality in design. As somone who loves argonians and have Sanguine as favourite prince, I was of course curious about the carnaval festival when it was first mentioned. But of course, as usual that was crushed when it was just some copy of Brazilian carnivals for over the top cosmetics.

I can understand if they continue what has already been established, so Nord will always be pseudo-Vikings somehow, and Khajiit, Imperials and Redguards also have their established cultural identity (which doesn't mean they could not come up with some surprises at times), but they could be so much more creative with aspects that aren't that set yet. But even with the druids of Galen they chose to... well. And so it continues.

Another reason why I find the choice of copying Brazilian Carnival for a Sanguine celebration rather strange - apart from the fact that I would have wished for more creativity - is that it's not exactly scandalous or dark. Unless there's a twist to this festivity that we do not know of yet, it all seems rather harmless. It feels like Sanguine gets reduced to drinking and (rather tame) nudity all the time, while actually - or originally - the idea included so much more (But why am I telling you this? I'm sure you would have come up with a rather interesting concept for this festival).

I did make a comment about the mounts a long time ago and then later noticed that one of the stables in High Isle has an exotic mount there. I think it’s gloomspore or something like that.

Still, it would be a player or npc mount. A lot of those crown store mounts have a description of some mage doing an experiment, like the vvardvark mount, I guess that is to explain why we don’t see them in the wild, but having so many players have these “experimental” mounts is a bit non-immersive.

As for the carnaval, I think they do things like that because we can relate to them when they have real world examples that visually tell us something immediately. I do agree that the carnaval costumes and dances seem a little off since we know Sanguine is not just a happy party guy and he can be very sinister.

Syldras

Elvenheart wrote: »

King Ur-Namma was a Druid? I had no idea! 🧙‍♂️

It's an unusual choice, but the game model is still very close to the real world thing, that's what I mean. They could have freely designed a statue of some human, or maybe not even a human, but they chose to just copy this. It's even weirder with this urn...
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Redoran_Urn,_Imprinted_Clay
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mindanao_burial_urn_2_SF_Asian_Art_Museum.JPG
...since an urn is literally just some kind of container and there are a thousand ways it could look like, but for whatever reasons they didn't make a design up, but just chose a real one from the Philippines.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

A lot of those crown store mounts have a description of some mage doing an experiment, like the vvardvark mount, I guess that is to explain why we don’t see them in the wild, but having so many players have these “experimental” mounts is a bit non-immersive.

The Vvardvark mount is actually one of the mounts that would feel natural to me if I saw more of them in-game, as part of the environment. In this case, limited to Telvanni Peninsula or the East of Vvardenfell, considering their origin, but still. They've originally been a Telvanni experiment, but according to lore text have become so popular that they made a dozen of different color varients of them, and then even that mount - if texts say that, I'd like to see it reflected in the world. Imagine Telvanni guards patrolling the roads on them

This crown store item, on the other hand, makes much less sense, considering the stance the Telvanni have on the Mages Guild and vice versa:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Order_of_the_Lamp_Vvardvark

wose

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

I've been playing ESO for many years, and I've often thought about the artistic consistency of the game. One thing that stands out to me is the presence of wide-brimmed hats. The TES series has always featured helmets, hoods, and wraps—headwear that either serves a practical purpose or has a rough, minimalistic look. TES has traditionally drawn inspiration from early medieval times, antiquity, and even Eastern cultures, creating a distinct visual identity. Wide-brimmed felt hats, especially those with curled edges, feel more reminiscent of later historical periods, such as the Renaissance or even the 19th century.

Historically, wide brimmed hats have been available long before, in different materials and formats.
Some illustrations from early to mid 15th century - have a look at the second one especially:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Très_Riches_Heures_du_Duc_de_Berry#/media/File:Les_Très_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_aout.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mérode_Altarpiece#/media/File:Merode_Altarpiece_left_Panel_Detail_a.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna_and_Child_with_Two_Saints_(Pisanello)
An actual preserved hat that has been dated late 14th, early 15th century: https://themedievalhunt.com/2015/03/19/the-lappvattnet-hat/
And a 1370 manuscript with lots of different hats - pointed, brimmed, whatnot: https://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/fmb/cb-0078/59v (browse the manuscript if you like for several more examples).

Whether the style (in-)consistency of ESO is bad or not is a different discussion.
Keep in mind that we are playing on a quite expansive continent, so various cultures and styles would be logical. The thing is that we as players travel all over it in the blink of an eye. So you get all kinds of styles mashed together.

colossalvoids

wose wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

I've been playing ESO for many years, and I've often thought about the artistic consistency of the game. One thing that stands out to me is the presence of wide-brimmed hats. The TES series has always featured helmets, hoods, and wraps—headwear that either serves a practical purpose or has a rough, minimalistic look. TES has traditionally drawn inspiration from early medieval times, antiquity, and even Eastern cultures, creating a distinct visual identity. Wide-brimmed felt hats, especially those with curled edges, feel more reminiscent of later historical periods, such as the Renaissance or even the 19th century.

Historically, wide brimmed hats have been available long before, in different materials and formats.
Some illustrations from early to mid 15th century - have a look at the second one especially:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Très_Riches_Heures_du_Duc_de_Berry#/media/File:Les_Très_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_aout.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mérode_Altarpiece#/media/File:Merode_Altarpiece_left_Panel_Detail_a.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna_and_Child_with_Two_Saints_(Pisanello)
An actual preserved hat that has been dated late 14th, early 15th century: https://themedievalhunt.com/2015/03/19/the-lappvattnet-hat/
And a 1370 manuscript with lots of different hats - pointed, brimmed, whatnot: https://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/fmb/cb-0078/59v (browse the manuscript if you like for several more examples).

Whether the style (in-)consistency of ESO is bad or not is a different discussion.
Keep in mind that we are playing on a quite expansive continent, so various cultures and styles would be logical. The thing is that we as players travel all over it in the blink of an eye. So you get all kinds of styles mashed together.

As you're aware of those examples you probably can see the differences to the ones we actually have in ESO and the period where those are drawn from. I don't think many would bat an eye on replicas of for example some Italian ones you have shown or with inclusion of chaperons, some specific fancy clerical hats etc. as those designs still evoke certain moods and periods even if used nowadays and can actually fit world of TES better.

Personally I'm not directly against some specifics as it's up to the customer to decide what's flying, but I'm always supportive with people wanting to see something more fitting to how lore nerds see the world in comparison to some random contracted designer who was assigned without broader context. It might lead to something more interesting and unique in the end, without pulling people out back to the current real world one might be escaping.